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Bibleman
07-17-2005, 01:16 AM
[ QUOTE ]
All discrete systems have the same failing - they are not geometrically correct for all setups. If you claim that there are only a (small) discrete number of aimpoints required to hit any pocket from any setup, and disallow the subconscious correction factor, all such systems may be easily disproven. In practice, your ability to compensate overcomes the built-in flaws of the system.
SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>


Aiming is something all players want to improve. Systems like Hal Houle's offer some guidance, but fall short of covering all angles.

Aside from obvious errors in aiming, the problems I see with Houle's system involve using english for position play and allowing for collision induced throw. Nothing is said about speed, which is a controlling factor on most shots. Unless a system allows for these components of a shot it cannot possibly be accurate in many situations.

The only system I know of that includes fullness of hit, english, cut angle and speed is found in Freddy "the Beard" Bentivegna's new bank bookó Banking With The Beard which has just been published.

Freddy's system covers every aspect of a bank shot. His system shows you how to compensate when english or extra force must be used. Freddy's system shows how bank angle, cut angle, fullness of hit, english and force interact on bank shots.

There's nothing else like it.

Bibleman

Stretch
07-17-2005, 05:45 AM
Systems are like a$$holes, everybody has one.

What i need is a system for guilt free daily practice when i know there's a million OTHER things i could be doing on a sunny day. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif St.


<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bibleman:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
All discrete systems have the same failing - they are not geometrically correct for all setups. If you claim that there are only a (small) discrete number of aimpoints required to hit any pocket from any setup, and disallow the subconscious correction factor, all such systems may be easily disproven. In practice, your ability to compensate overcomes the built-in flaws of the system.
SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>


Aiming is something all players want to improve. Systems like Hal Houle's offer some guidance, but fall short of covering all angles.

Aside from obvious errors in aiming, the problems I see with Houle's system involve using english for position play and allowing for collision induced throw. Nothing is said about speed, which is a controlling factor on most shots. Unless a system allows for these components of a shot it cannot possibly be accurate in many situations.

The only system I know of that includes fullness of hit, english, cut angle and speed is found in Freddy "the Beard" Bentivegna's new bank bookó Banking With The Beard which has just been published.

Freddy's system covers every aspect of a bank shot. His system shows you how to compensate when english or extra force must be used. Freddy's system shows how bank angle, cut angle, fullness of hit, english and force interact on bank shots.

There's nothing else like it.

Bibleman
<hr /></blockquote>

Fred Agnir
07-17-2005, 06:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bibleman:</font><hr> Aiming is something all players want to improve. Systems like Hal Houle's offer some guidance, but fall short of covering all angles.

Aside from obvious errors in aiming, the problems I see with Houle's system involve using english for position play and allowing for collision induced throw. Nothing is said about speed, which is a controlling factor on most shots. <hr /></blockquote>

First and foremost, Hal's are aiming systems, so of course discussions on speed control are something else. Is that a fault of his systems? How does one make that conclusion? His aiming systems suggest that they inherently correct for CIT, and allow for an easy method of correcting for increased CIT due to dirty balls. Absolutely.

And secondly, the use of english most certainly is covered in Hal's systems. The discussions on these boards rarely get that far.

That being said, I'm sure Freddy the Beard has great systems that we all can get benefit.

Finally, the Pool School (Randyg and company) has IMO, the best speed control drills I've ever encountered. It's quantitative, so it should appeal to everyone especially those who need something a little less guessworkish.

Fred

recoveryjones
07-17-2005, 10:19 AM
When you made your post "Better than Hal Houles system" I thought I was going to read a thread about a great aiming system.Hal's systems are nothing short of great, so learning about one better than his, really caught my intrest.

You, however, are talking about a Banking System and in doing so, are comparing apples to oranges.

Thanks for letting us know about a potentially great book on banking,however,I think the title of your thread is innappropriate.JMO, RJ

Bibleman
07-17-2005, 11:11 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote recoveryjones:</font><hr>
You, however, are talking about a Banking System and in doing so, are comparing apples to oranges. <hr /></blockquote>


Freddy's system is a straight-in aiming system that has been adapted for banks.

Read the book before talking about apples and oranges.
Bibleman

NH_Steve
07-17-2005, 02:58 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bibleman:</font><hr>
Freddy's system is a straight-in aiming system that has been adapted for banks.

Read the book before talking about apples and oranges.
Bibleman <hr /></blockquote>If anyone would like to read the book...

It is available from OnePocket.org (signed copies)
and author Freddy Bentivegna

http://onepocket.org/BankingWithTheBeard.htm
http://www.bankingwiththebeard.com/

SPetty
07-17-2005, 04:23 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote NH_Steve:</font><hr>If anyone would like to read the book...

It is available from OnePocket.org (signed copies)

http://onepocket.org/BankingWithTheBeard.htm<hr /></blockquote>Thanks, Steve, for making it available via an on-line payment method (PayPal). Sure makes it easy for me! I just placed my order with you.

Bibleman
07-17-2005, 07:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr>
First and foremost, Hal's are aiming systems, so of course discussions on speed control are something else. <hr /></blockquote>

I wasn't talking about how far the balls travel. I was thinking of the effect velocity has on cue ball and object ball paths.

The effects of english and collision induced throw are controlled to a great extent by speed . The amount of throw a ball takes changes according to speed . English that works at one speed may have almost no effect at a different speed . Knowing how speed affects the results of english is vital for high speed play.

If the speed is too far wrong and no adjustment is made, the shot will not score.

Speed affects every aspect of a shot to some degree.


<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr>
And secondly, the use of english most certainly is covered in Hal's systems. The discussions on these boards rarely get that far. <hr /></blockquote>


None of the posts I saw said anything about english. Without english in the formula all bets are off.
Bibleman

recoveryjones
07-17-2005, 07:58 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bibleman:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote recoveryjones:</font><hr>
You, however, are talking about a Banking System and in doing so, are comparing apples to oranges. <hr /></blockquote>


Freddy's system is a straight-in aiming system that has been adapted for banks.

Read the book before talking about apples and oranges.
Bibleman <hr /></blockquote>

A banking system,done with an aiming system.....sounds good to me.I think I'll order myself a copy. Thanks for the lead. RJ

ps. As for Hals'systems, they work GREAT with backhand english or tuck and roll.Straight through the cue ball standard english cannnot be used.