PDA

View Full Version : Sexual orientation in women's pro pool.



06-16-2002, 07:41 PM
A serious question.
It seems to me that a very large percentage of the top 16 women pro pool players are gay.
This can't be a coincidence.
Does it help to be gay,and why?
Alot of people are thinking this,so I hope people don't mind if we discuss it.

PQQLK9
06-16-2002, 08:00 PM
I don't know if that is true or not and it really dosen't matter to me ...I just wish I could play pool nearly as well as any of the women. Whatever their sexual oeientation (and it's nobody's business but their own)they make as good a contribution if not more to our society as any man (straight or gay).

Sid_Vicious
06-16-2002, 08:27 PM
Bling...Yea you'll get the shots for asking BUT I doubt seriously that anyone will prove you entirely or even partially wrong in your accounting. I posed this question long ago in reference to testerone levels in the possible bull side of the gay women, and all I seemed to get for the most part was "Shut up, it doesn't matter the sexual preference." Well, I only asked to see why the high percentage was interior to women's pool, that's all. It is apparent(IMO), and I really don't have a negative care, I simply think there's science in why the bulk of the strong women pool players are gay...sid~~~waiting for the incoming arrows

06-16-2002, 09:14 PM
after what's been posted at ccb lately, it seems difficult to post without a few quick tempered responses. but so what, this is a forum on the internet.

when looking at the gay % in top 15 women's pool, it might help to see what the %'s are with all top female sports participants. pool might or might not be up there.

there might have been a missed opportunity here. women's pool as a whole could have promoted themselves in much the same manner as jeanette. so it's sexism,,,,so what. when the dust settles, money and endorsements are what count. they could worry about their image later.

and they'd be richer.

06-16-2002, 11:35 PM
can anyone list the top 15 women and then tell me who in that 15 is gay??? just curious

Chris Cass
06-17-2002, 12:25 AM
Hi Bling Bling,

Definitly,
Just don't make the mistake of turning gay by yourself. You have to seek a BCA qualified instructor for the gay. Otherwise, you'll find yourself gay and can't make a ball.

Oh and by the way, I never gave it a thought. I did ask myself if you were Bernie. Nobody, is that nieve.


C.C.

06-17-2002, 03:43 AM
,

Rich R.
06-17-2002, 04:10 AM
Bling Bling, please share with us, how do you know that any of the women pro pool players are gay? Have you been invited into their bedrooms? Do you assume some are gay because they choose not to be accompanied by a man?

If you are correct, what would it matter? Do you happen to know how many of the top male players are also gay? In the grand scheme of things, would that have more or less of an impact as the number of gay women players? How about the number of gay truck drivers or accountants? I won't even ask about priests.

Bling Bling, there are much more important things in this world to worry about. If you must have an answer, the fact of the matter is, that a percentage of the world population happens to be gay. Like so called straight people, some are good and some are bad. Some may even be able to play pool.
Deal with it.
Rich R.

Doctor_D
06-17-2002, 04:39 AM
Good morning:

Questions about a successful and/or powerful woman's sexual orientation, whether in professional billiards or any other area of life and/or the corporate world, are all too common place. Should a woman prove to be strong, mentally as well as physically, in addition to being at the top of her game whatever it might prove to be, she is almost always, especially if she is unmarried and has chosen a career over a husband and having a family, characterized as being a Lesbian.

Lesbians, by there very nature, tend to be very successful women in whatever their chosen career path may be. Part of this level of success is driven by the fact that she knows that she will always need to provide for herself and that there will NEVER be a man in her life to bring home the paycheck and pay the bills. As a woman, now 48 years young, who chose a career in corporate America I am all too familiar with perceptions, speculations and down right nasty references associated with being a successful woman. Women, regardless of our sexual orientation, when we put are minds to it can and will outperform most if not all who, ourselves included, choose to challenge us.

Leave the orientation aspect alone as it has no bearing and/or relevance other then to feed a man's ego and fantacies!

Dr. D.

Doctor_D
06-17-2002, 04:43 AM
Good morning:

Downtown, to be perfectly blunt, it is NONE of YOUR DAMN BUSINESS!!

Dr. D.

cheesemouse
06-17-2002, 05:36 AM
dOwntOwn'
All though sexual orientation is a subject, like any other subject, open for discussion on a discussion board I personally could careless what another persons personal perferences are. It's there life and they are surely welcome to it. As to your question: does it help in pool? What helps in pool is hitting pool balls and lots of them.

rackmup
06-17-2002, 06:50 AM
gay adj. merry; happy

Gay or straight? What does it matter as long as they fit the definition as provided by Webster's dictionary?

Too much concern over the irrelevant.

Regards,

Ken

Q-guy
06-17-2002, 07:28 AM
From my experience I would say they defiantly have an advantage. I deal with gay woman all the time. I live in an area with a very high gay population. The gay women I see that take up the game improve very quickly as compared to straight women. One neighbor who I helped install her pool table was very new to pool. In no time she was running balls. I would watch women trying to learn to play in the pool room and after a year they could still hardly play. It would be naive to pretend it does not make a difference. Beyond that, they are women and qualified to play. It does not seem to make any difference to anybody. Any uncomfortableness with the subject has long been removed with golf, tennis and other sports. I find it funny some wish to pretend it is not the case. The answer is yes, without much more to say. It is kind of a none subject anymore.

06-17-2002, 09:56 AM
im sorry I didnt realize that your mom is one of them

Doctor_D
06-17-2002, 09:59 AM
Good afternoon:

Is this your attempt to be funny, or is there something else you wish to say?

Dr. D.

WaltVA
06-17-2002, 10:15 AM
Can't for the life of me see why a player's sexual orientation would be of any relevance to anyone, unless possibly they were interested in getting into a relationship with them.

Walt in VA

Fred Agnir
06-17-2002, 10:20 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: WaltVA:</font><hr> Can't for the life of me see why a player's sexual orientation would be of any relevance to anyone, unless possibly they were interested in getting into a relationship with them.<hr></blockquote>
It's like a train wreck.

Fred

06-17-2002, 10:26 AM
There's no reason to focus on female pro pool players in this sexual orientation question. It's widely accepted that highly skilled and professional female athletes in almost any sport across the gamut have a considerably higher percentage of gay orientation than your overall population average.

I'm sure there has been much credible documented research and theories as to some very valid reasons why this tends to be true. My question to you Bling Bling, - Why is it that we don't seem to be as obsessed with our curiosity as to whether the same holds true for the men? The results might surprise us if we could determine the percentage of gays among male professional athletes.

The men are far more likely to hide it due to there currently being IMO even more societal discrimination and non-acceptance felt towards male gays than exists for female gays. Bottom line - who cares and I don't think it's likely to help or hurt your pool performance if you switch your orientation! - Chris in NC

cuechick
06-17-2002, 10:45 AM
Okay BB
Even though you and I had this discussion, let me say, BB's intent is not to start trouble , but a sincere debate. I hear this question a lot, and my own opionion is that it is mainly a cultural difference. I believe gay women in genrel find acceptance in sports and excel at for that reason (also Dr. D made some very good points).
I am curious Q-Guy if your friend played a lot of other sports before she took up pool?
Like men, they may be drawn to sports at a younger age and pursue it more than straight women?
I myself did not start playing pool till I was 30 ( I am straight, by the way) never an athlete, I was a dancer though and feel that is why I picked it up very quickly.
I just feel that very good athletes have those innate ablities to concentrate and that killer instinct regardless of sexual orientation. I have beaten and beaten by men, women both gay and straight. It just doesn't matter, I think the 'explanaton' you are looking for is just a 'sign of the times', right now.

I think what is even more important to note, is the number of classy, exciting, top notch players that now dominate the top 16! 100%!!!

Fred Agnir
06-17-2002, 10:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Chris in NC:</font><hr> My question to you Bling Bling, - Why is it that we don't seem to be as obsessed with our curiosity as to whether the same holds true for the men<hr></blockquote>
If the Mike Piazza incident was of any clue, it seems that we as a people are inherently curious regardless of gender.

Fred

Jay M
06-17-2002, 11:34 AM
Personally, I could care less about their sexual orientation. I see that you are asking seriously and not trying to start a flamefest. Therefore, here are the first things that came to mind when I read through this thread.

1) how many of the players that are in gay relationships started AFTER they started touring. Is there an environmental aspect? It would seem like relationships, both sexual and non-sexual, would be a natural result of the social interaction among the players added to the influence of common interests, alcohol and shared rooms (opportunity), etc. I would guess that this would affect both sexes equally, although societal morality would be inflicted on the men, causing the thought to be repugnant to those that don't already have inclinations in the direction of homosexuality. Women, on the other hand, are not subject to as much persecution within society based on sexual preference.

(BTW, just as an aside, I would remove a man from the face of the earth if they ever propositioned me. I find the thought totally repulsive)

2) with regards to ability, if you were dating, married, etc to a high level player, regardless of gender, wouldn't the tendency be to practice together? If so, wouldn't both players' games improve based simply on shared experience? As an example, what were the results, in tournament experiences, of the marriage of Jeanette Lee and George Breedlove? Did Jeanette show an increase in consistency or a change in fundamental tactics? If you run into her, ask her, I'll give you 10-1 odds that Jeanette and George shared information and methods and that Jeanette incorporated those shots and strategies into her game. I would imagine that the same effects could be shown among any couple, regardless of gender or sexual orientation.

Just food for thought.

Jay M

Rod
06-17-2002, 11:49 AM
An note from the dictonary;

There were two gays on the panel; here phrasing such as gay members should be used instead. But there is no objection to the use of the noun in the plural to refer collectively either to gay men or to gay men and lesbians, so long as it is clear whether men alone or both men and women are being discussed.


Some words just take on different meanings, the term gay use to be;

Showing or characterized by cheerfulness and lighthearted excitement; merry.
Bright or lively, especially in color: a gay, sunny room.

I'd say anyone who is lighthearted and cheerful is likely to have more success in life, don't you think? If not, there at least happy with who they are!

~~~ hope this helps

06-17-2002, 11:53 AM
I suspect everybody, and I suspect nobody. I'm working on a theory, that it may have something to do with the soil, in N. Carolina, hmmm

SPetty
06-17-2002, 12:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Jay M:</font><hr> (BTW, just as an aside, I would remove a man from the face of the earth if they ever propositioned me. I find the thought totally repulsive)<hr></blockquote>Hi Jay,

That's a bit extreme. Perhaps a more appropriate response would be "No thanks, not interested".

Just trying to help.

Jay M
06-17-2002, 12:13 PM
you may be right, but I've seen the tenacity that men have down here in "no means maybe" land. I guess I'd do it your way first, and if the person pressed on, it would be my way...

Jay M

06-17-2002, 12:25 PM
one snyde remark deserves another....... lets try and keep it civil

06-17-2002, 12:36 PM
cuechick, why is it after reading bb's post, you seem to be the only one who actually understood the question! I read alot of the responses to bb's post and everybody wanted to condemn and chastize bb instead of trying to answer a legitmate question? what gives ccber's?, I didn't think bb insulted anyone by his question! I was kind of curious myself, that doesn't mean I'm homophobic, and if you don't think some of the top female players aren't gay, then you truly have blinders on your face. now everybody is correct, that is there own business and I could care less about there orientation, but I think dr.d and a couple of others truly didn't read and understand bb's question, because if they had I don't think they would have jumped right on his butt, but maybe I'm wrong, I guess it's easier to chastize someone. sign me disappointed with the board. steve

heater451
06-17-2002, 01:09 PM
Okay, even though I know you asked this "seriously", I was going to avoid replying, because I knew many others would find the topic somewhat offensive, and/or not worth furthering. Then again, I usually don't shy away from stuff.

I think that Dr. D has a very interesting view, about lesbians having a drive, fostered by a non-reliance on males.

However, and this is based upon my experience with friends of both genders and sexual orientation, I find that **most** of the lesbians I know, that are not extreme (that is, overly "butch" nor "girly") happen to be more confident in their abilities than an **average** hetero female. They are less worried about appearing to do badly in front of others, and so they handle competition well.

Now, I have been using generalizations, because there are always exceptions.

Two examples:

1) A buddy of mine, who is hetero, is very conscious of doing things well (I can't say "anal retentive" because I've seen his housekeeping skills. . . .). He couldn't stand to have people see him shoot, if he wasn't doing well.

2) One of the better female shooters (non-league) I ever played with, happened to be an "exotic dancer" in New Orleans. I don't think she had any issues with people watching her perform. . . .Note, though, that I'm making the assumption that she was hetero, or bi, at the least (I've also had a couple of female friends who "danced" and were hetero, but some of their co-workers showed bisexual, or misogynistic tendencies.)

To sum it up, I would consider anything that bolsters a person's abiltiy to handle the mental, emotional, and physical aspects of competition to be beneficial. So, to answer your question of, "does it help to be gay?", I would say "yes" for women, if the source of their self-esteem and abilities stem from it.

Kato
06-17-2002, 01:50 PM
About 10 years ago when I worked at Bennigan's there were two male gay waiters. Brent and John were roomates and pretty cool guys. Anyway they invited a bunch of us (all straight men and women) to a gay bar for his birthday party. While it wasn't my cup of tea it made him real happy to have his friends there. We were all sitting at the bar when this guy came up to me and propositioned me. He was breathing blood bubbles 30 seconds later, not from me, but from my friend Brent. He explained to me later that the guy that hit on me knew I was straight and that was "against the rules".

If you are a man or a woman and a member of your gender propositions you then just take it as a compliment and say no.

As to whether or not homosexual women are better at pool or not? I don't know. I don't care. Don't matter to me. I'm sure that a few of the top 16 females are gay, doesn't matter, they play pool just like me.

Kato~~~wants to date Janette but is in love with AF's accent

06-17-2002, 02:57 PM
It's one of those topics you can go back and forth on forever and never come to a valid conclusion. There are far too many variables that would need to be considered. You'd have to take a mixed field of players, do a complete chemical composition test, not just once, but at different times during the day and during different activities. You'd also have to know every aspect of each player's life from as far back as childhood...their hopes, dreams, ambitions, family life... it's endless. After all that, you may be able to determine whether there may be correlations worth further testing and research, but it would only be the beginning stages with endless work ahead and no guarantee of a valid conclusion.

I'll tell you why the players aren't interested in this topic....because since it is so impossible to determine if there is any correlation between sexual orientation and performance, then what good does it do a hard working and practicing competitor to assume their sexual orientation will give them and edge or a deficit? It does them absolutely no good at all. Nada.

So this is really just fan curiosity. Believe me when I tell you...the players aren't interested, myself included.

Fran

06-17-2002, 02:59 PM
Heater, you made some very interesting points. It makes me tend to follow that line of thinking just a little further. What if this "drive", or whatever, is inborn rather than environmentally determined? There is no shortage of academics and studies suggesting that sexual orientation is a strong function of genetics. Perhaps the genetic makeup that would bias a woman to be a lesbian might sometimes come with "fringe benefits" that provide a slight edge in certain competitive endeavors. I have friend with a lesbian daughter, and even as a young child she was far more aggressive (and successful) in many sports than her peers. This was years before she was consciously thinking about sexual orientation, or had been exposed to any thoughts of struggling against opinion or the significance of not depending on males. Pool is an agressive game, played on a battlefield, and the genders have not experienced equal portions of natural selection on battlefields over the millenia. Perhaps it's not unusual for females with psuedo-masculine traits to benefit in this arena.

SpiderMan

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: heater451:</font><hr> Okay, even though I know you asked this "seriously", I was going to avoid replying, because I knew many others would find the topic somewhat offensive, and/or not worth furthering. Then again, I usually don't shy away from stuff.

I think that Dr. D has a very interesting view, about lesbians having a drive, fostered by a non-reliance on males.

However, and this is based upon my experience with friends of both genders and sexual orientation, I find that **most** of the lesbians I know, that are not extreme (that is, overly "butch" nor "girly") happen to be more confident in their abilities than an **average** hetero female. They are less worried about appearing to do badly in front of others, and so they handle competition well.

Now, I have been using generalizations, because there are always exceptions.

Two examples:

1) A buddy of mine, who is hetero, is very conscious of doing things well (I can't say "anal retentive" because I've seen his housekeeping skills. . . .). He couldn't stand to have people see him shoot, if he wasn't doing well.

2) One of the better female shooters (non-league) I ever played with, happened to be an "exotic dancer" in New Orleans. I don't think she had any issues with people watching her perform. . . .Note, though, that I'm making the assumption that she was hetero, or bi, at the least (I've also had a couple of female friends who "danced" and were hetero, but some of their co-workers showed bisexual, or misogynistic tendencies.)

To sum it up, I would consider anything that bolsters a person's abiltiy to handle the mental, emotional, and physical aspects of competition to be beneficial. So, to answer your question of, "does it help to be gay?", I would say "yes" for women, if the source of their self-esteem and abilities stem from it. <hr></blockquote>

06-17-2002, 03:29 PM
So here's my two cents worth.... I'm not gay, and although I can sometimes understand the impetus, I just can't get past the mechanics! /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif I am, however, very aggressive (I know you're all shocked, but really!) very competitive, and hold myself to what I would like to believe are high standards with regard to my self- expectations. I know that there are quite a few lesbians on tour, but there are even more hetero girls there. For that matter, you could say the same thing about any of life's pursuits. I think if the lesbian vs. hetero factor were to come into play at all, it would come in the form of performance before, during, and after a relationship. I have no experience in this area with regard to lesbian women, so I would never presume to speak for them, but here's what I know about hetero women.
We love men. A lot. So much so that we tend to put our needs, wants and desires on the back burner for our men and our relationships. Now, sometimes this works out pretty good for us. Our men love and respect us back, they encourage us to reach for our own goals, etc. Women in these relationships do well in competition. But then there are the relationships that are not so good, or he plays around, or it's not working out, or you break up , or a whole host of other stuff. Basically the point I'm trying to make is, a hetero woman will allow her personal relationship to define and direct her life, often in not so good ways. Now, I know a lot of you women out there know what I'm talking about, and a lot more are saying, "She's so full of ____!" Before you blast away, to the second group may I say "Good for you." I've never figured out how to make me more important than the men I loved. But I believe, for hetero women, that is what it comes down to (plus thousands of years of 'please the male' training). We are willing to sacrifice ourselves for our men, and thus do not achieve all that we could. By the way, part of the sacrifice we make is bearing children, which we tell ourselves is also for us, and we truly do love our children, don't get me wrong, but let's face it, it's not our name they'll be carrying through life! /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif And it's not the men they run to to feed them, swing them, read to them, wipe their nose, run their friends and them to the mall.....you get the point. That's my two cents, hope you feel like you got your money's worth ! /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

heater451
06-17-2002, 05:45 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Lorri:</font><hr> . . .I know that there are quite a few lesbians on tour, but there are even more hetero girls there<hr></blockquote>
Lorri,

This part summed up the non-personal part of your post for me. I keyed off of "large percentage" in the first post, and didn't even stop to think whether it was factual or not (shame on me).

I can find it easy to believe, based on the percentages of hetero- vs. homo-sexual people that I know personally, that there are more breeders in any area of life that is non-specific to any human quality (sexual orientation, race, creed, economic plane, etc., etc.). This would invalidate lesbianism as being an advantage.

However, as Fran has pointed out (or, as I am taking from Fran's post), there may be many other factors--environmental and/or hereditary--that affect a player's drive and/or abilities.

That's why I tried to leave myself a loophole:
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: heater451:</font><hr>I would consider anything that bolsters a person's abiltiy to handle the mental, emotional, and physical aspects of competition to be beneficial. So, to answer your question of, "does it help to be gay?", I would say "yes" for women, if the source of their self-esteem and abilities stem from it. <hr></blockquote>

And, I am also in agreement with Fran, in that it's not that interesting, but I **do** like to speculate on humanity and conditioning. . . .

06-17-2002, 08:08 PM
So funny that you used that term. My friend John was telling me about one of his friends who was gay. Apparently John thought it was an absolute riot that his friend referred to straight people as "The Breeders". LOL

Doctor_D
06-18-2002, 06:15 AM
Good morning:

"Breeders", I like that one ...

Dr. D.

Sid_Vicious
06-18-2002, 06:57 AM
Ya know we discuss things like tip consistency, shaft deflection, table comparisons, even the climate in a pool hall trying to find commonalities that point us to the answer of what makes for success in this game. If we happen to have at least 2 out of the top three women players who happen to be non hetro, then I find that statistic intriquing simply because of why that is. To say, "it's not that interesting" means you as an individual don't care to look at this subject(IMO) which is perfectly ok, to each their own. Otherwise the quest for what adds up and what doesn't in striving for success at the top isn't of concern. As I said, if you don't like the subject then that's an individual thing, BUT if statistics deals out the numbers better to gay women professional players of any sport, I think there's room to sort through and figure why here in the pool arena. Maybe several here don't care to consider the subject, but you have to have noticed the number of views this thread received. It ramped up about as fast as any I've seen...sid~~~believes that if you don't care for the thread you simply don't join it

06-18-2002, 08:46 AM
I don't know, Sid... I don't think I agree.

If there is a correlation between lesbianism and better pool, what does this tell us? It's not like we found, after a year of study, that eating a carbo-rich meal before a match improved your play. In such a case, it's a no-brainer - we'd all start doing it, and THAT would be a good example of a successful study.

If lesbians, for some reason, play better pool than hetero women, it makes no difference because we can't USE this information. Though we may joke about it, nobody's switching sides to improve a power draw stroke.

We also have no application for this information because none of the lesbians on tour exhibit - and excuse the crude description - "butchy" behavior. This is the one thing that we MAY have been able to use; if we found that an intimidating attitude may help performance, that might be *something*. But of the top 16 or so players, the woman most exhibiting this trait is probably Jeanette, and we can all agree she's not a lesbian.

So if we can't extract any useful information from the study, then what is the point?

- Steve Lipsky

heater451
06-18-2002, 09:01 AM
Sid,

As I put in my previous post, I am drawn to the human "cause and effect" aspects of the thread, and the propensity for speculation that it allows.

When I say that "it's not interesting", I'm speaking about how it directly relates to pool.

You said: "Otherwise the quest for what adds up and what doesn't in striving for success at the top isn't of concern."

I, on the other hand, agree with Fran: ". . .It's one of those topics you can go back and forth on forever and never come to a valid conclusion. There are far too many variables that would need to be considered." You can look at 2 out of 3 players, and think that's conclusive, but you'd really need to be looking at 2/3 of several hundred people (and that may not be enough) to start building a case. I don't think just assuming a percentage from such a small sample would be correct.

And, again quoting Fran, .....because since it is so impossible to determine if there is any correlation between sexual orientation and performance, then what good does it do a hard working and practicing competitor to assume their sexual orientation will give them and edge or a deficit? It does them absolutely no good at all." Fran is referring to any player quantifying their sexuality as a performance factor, and says that it can't be done. I would add that, even if you could, I doubt it would truly add anything more than some small confidence boost. Also, do you expect any players to "switch sides" in order to improve their game? /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Anyway, I was in no way trying to end the thread/discussion, but simply trying to show that I don't think that studying the topic will yield any formal conclusion. Like the "black box" theory in the 'Throwing the Object ball' thread, where some of us were driven to figure out why/what was going on in a throw shot, others would stop at "it works this way, deal with it". In the case of this thread, I fall towards the latter.

Oh yeah, I'd also like to say that I don't really understand why you felt that you had to defend an interest in the topic, from my post, since I believe that I helped continue the thread with my observations. If I were telling people to drop it, then I might comprehend you getting on my case. I know you're not intending to be combative (". . .(IMO) which is perfectly ok, to each their own."), and neither am I.

I hope that I am clearer in this post.

06-18-2002, 09:07 AM
By all means, please discuss it to your hearts content. LOL While you're at it, maybe everyone can discuss why so many top male players have small shoe-sizes...and you know what they say about men with small feet! /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

I just thought it would be interesting to state why the competing players don't consider that kind of stuff relevent. We simply don't have enough information to make any sense out of it.

Remember that face on the moon that had everyone speculating? People were sure there was something not natural going on up there. Years later, detailed photos showed that it is indeed a natural phenomenon.

When you start discussing things like players sexual orientation, which crosses over into personal issues, I think it would be prudent to have more basis of fact than just to say...hmmmm...let's publicly work out why we think so many top players are lesbian.

I happen to think without more than just superficial at-first-glance evidence, the discussion is more of a rumor mill type discussion.

And if someone here doesn't like a thread, I think they have every right, and should, state they aren't pleased.

Fran

stickman
06-18-2002, 09:15 AM
In my experience, the toughest opponent I've ever matched up against was a gay alien on anabolic steriods, after they had abstained from sex for over two months. Sorry, I had to throw this in. Afterall, the rest of this thread is pure silliness. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

heater451
06-18-2002, 09:28 AM
You summed that up much better than I did. . . .(about the interest factor)

06-18-2002, 09:33 AM
Well, I can give you one reason to do the study, Steve: Government Grants!! LOL

You made some really good points there.

Fran

Rich R.
06-18-2002, 09:36 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: stickman:</font><hr> In my experience, the toughest opponent I've ever matched up against was a gay alien on anabolic steriods, after they had abstained from sex for over two months. Sorry, I had to throw this in. Afterall, the rest of this thread is pure silliness. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif <hr></blockquote>
Your statement makes as much sense as most in this thread.

I still don't know what conclusions any one thinks they are going to reach in this discussion. At best, they will make the miraculous discovery that a certain percentage of professional pool players happen to be gay. Isn't that amazing?
Of course, I believe you will find that a certain percentage of people in any other profession, also happen to be gay.
The conclusion is that the sexual orientation of professional pool players reflects the rest of society.
Rich R.

stickman
06-18-2002, 09:45 AM
My point is: While this thread may have some entertainment value, I don't see the practical value, unless you're considering changing sexual preferences. If someone's planning on this, let us know if it improves your game. LOL

06-18-2002, 10:25 AM
Steve, I just realized why some people may want to pursue this type of discussion. Not all, but some.

I think everyone agrees that presently the top men players play better than the women overall. No disputes about that. However, one of the big issues for debate here has been what about the future? Will women EVER be able to top the men? From what I've seen in various posts, I know that some people are very offended by that prospect. They just won't have it. For them, it can't and won't happen.

One way for them to further prove their rationalization to themselves is if lesbians are, in fact, better players than hetero women, and in their mind, lesbians are closer to males (which btw, there is no proof whatsoever on that issue), so that would mean that there is an inherent male trait which would always make males superior players.

I'd bet my last dollar that some people are after that rationalization, at least just for themselves privately.

This thread is a trap to make somebody feel better!!! LMAO

Fran

Retardo
06-18-2002, 10:30 AM
IF we were discussing whether Lefthanders are better pool players which I have seen discussed, I bet we wouldn't get one comment like "who cares?" "Its none of your business" "there is no sense in discussing this" "this isn't useful"

Aren't we all just a bit too PC?

Vapros
06-18-2002, 10:39 AM
My own opinion is that the answer to this and many other discussions of straight vs lesbian - assuming that the sexual inclination is not the topic - has to do with the presence or absence of a family. I have found that, in the bowling world, the local women's Bowling Association (WIBC affiliate) in many cities is in the hands of the lesbians and/or older single women and/or older women whose children and/or husbands are gone from the home. The lesbians are sometimes pretty militant and often disliked, but generally are great managers and organizers.

In bowling there is the added factor of strength that might make a difference in some cases, but it would not be nearly as prevalent in pool, where physical power is not so great an asset.

In brief, I think that women without families are able to dedicate a greater portion of their energies and interest to other matters. The circumstance that has generated this long thread was entirely predictable, as a direct result. If the lesbians are disproportionately represented at the top of sports, it is often because of their priorities, rather than their sexual habits. Putting your kids first is a noble attitude, but it's not the best way to run racks.

Fred Agnir
06-18-2002, 10:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Steve_Lipsky:</font><hr> If lesbians, for some reason, play better pool than hetero women, it makes no difference because we can't USE this information. Though we may joke about it, nobody's switching sides to improve a power draw stroke.<hr></blockquote>
Great. *Now* you tell me.

Fred &lt;~~~ cancelling that operation

06-18-2002, 10:44 AM
My two cents.... and that's about what it's worth...

think about whether you know any homosexual men that are great pool players..... try hard...... no?

Hmm... I wonder if then, it's a cultural thing? DUH. To play pool on has to have SOME sense that it is accepted by their peers..

Make sense?

heater451
06-18-2002, 11:06 AM
Lefthanded players may tend to be better, if they are also right-brained.

The right hemisphere of the brain is responsible for creative thought, spacial relations, and fine-motor movement. There are all, arguably I'm sure, advantages to a pool player.

I recall a study--only one, take from that what you will--in which gay men showed a tendency towards larger corpus callosum (Def: ". . .a broad, thick mass of nerve connecting the cerebral hemispheres"-- http://www.indiana.edu/~pietsch/split-brain.html ), which is resposible for communication between the two hemispheres. Women tend to have larger corpus callosum (plural?) than men. I couldn't tell you the relational difference between gay men, in comparison to women (gay or not). I also decline from guessing whether a large or small corpus callosum is beneficial to playing pool in any way--you might think more communication between the hemispheres is better, but you might also think more communication equals more 'distraction'.

I have no information on the brains of gay women.

Now, even if we assumed that there was a "physio-mental" (my term, meaning a physical trait that affects mental/emotional states) cause for playing better pool, then we would still be left with a multitude of other variables, such as Fran has already mentioned, and Vapros exemplified.

And, as both Dr. D and Vapros have shown, there are strong environmental elements to consider in the equation. There is also the possibly false assumption that homosexuality is the cause of better pool playing (in women), when it's more realistic to say that lesbianism and better pool skills result from a combination of other factors. That is, they are correlative, but neither is responsible for the other.

~~I often enjoy mental masturbation, but this is getting ridiculous. . . . /ccboard/images/icons/wink.gif

06-18-2002, 11:11 AM
You have a valid point, it's not directly usefull and certainly not worth trying by "switch hitting", I'd rather quit pool to be honest...sid~~~curious but not THAT curious ;-)

heater451
06-18-2002, 11:23 AM
What if all men are just lesbians in the wrong body?

Would that mean that the top men are the better-playing, least good-looking women?

Rich R.
06-18-2002, 11:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: JasonG NYC:</font><hr> think about whether you know any homosexual men that are great pool players..... try hard...... no?<hr></blockquote>
Just because you don't know any, doesn't mean there are none.
If a gay man does not display openly feminine characteristics, does not mean he is any less gay. Also, if a women has some masculin characteristics, it does not mean she is gay. You should not be making assumptions.
Rich R.

06-18-2002, 11:55 AM
I would say that Paul Potier would have to be considered a prime candidate.... Im not sure hes gay but he is very feminine.

cheesemouse
06-18-2002, 12:56 PM
Fran,
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>One way for them to further prove their rationalization to themselves is if lesbians are, in fact, better players than hetero women, and in their mind, lesbians are closer to males (which btw, there is no proof whatsoever on that issue), so that would mean that there is an inherent male trait which would always make males superior players.<hr></blockquote>

This reminds me of a feminist quote I once heard, "A woman who strives to be equal to a man lacks ambition" LOL /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

06-18-2002, 12:58 PM
Good god... could you possibly read MORE into my post. All I said basically was that a lifelong pursuit of pool and everything it entails is probably more culturally acceptable within the niche of gay women than it is among straight women. Much the same way that it is vastly more acceptable amongst hetero men than amongst gay men...

I never said ANYTHING about behavior.... femine or butch or whatever. That was never really even insinuated...

Jason

06-18-2002, 01:05 PM
Two lesbians were out playing golf. They tee off and one drive goes to the right, and the other goes to the left. One of them finds her ball in a patch of butter cups. She hits a beautiful second shot, but in the process hacks the hell out of the butter cups.

Suddenly a woman appears out of nowhere. She blocks her path to her golf bag looks at her and says, " I'm mother nature and i don't like the way you treated my butter cups, from now on you won't be able to stand the taist of butter. Each time you eat butter you will be physicaly ill to the point of total nausia." The mystery woman then disappeared as quickly as she appeared.

Shaken the woman calls out to her partner, " Hey, where's your ball?"

"It's over here in the pussy willows"

She screams back, "DON'T HIT THE BALL!!!, DON'T HIT THE BALL!!!". St

06-18-2002, 01:31 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: JasonG NYC:</font><hr> think about whether you know any homosexual men that are great pool players..... try hard...... no?

Hmm... I wonder if then, it's a cultural thing? DUH. To play pool one has to have SOME sense that it is accepted by their peers.. <hr></blockquote>

Wellsir.... there was this. In case you missed it the first time.....

http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Board=ccbboard&amp;Number=4849&amp;p age=&amp;view=&amp;sb=&amp;o=

Wally_in_Cincy
06-18-2002, 01:47 PM
Well William where have you been young man? You need to check in more often. We've been worried sick about you.

06-18-2002, 07:59 PM
Thought you might D!

06-18-2002, 08:19 PM
Quote: "But,if statistics deals out the numbers better to gay women professional players of any sport"... Well Sid, may I direct your attention to Equestrian sports, where the top twenty in the nation are predominately Female, Heterosexual, Married, and over thirty?

06-18-2002, 10:10 PM
In response to the very angry Rich R. I started this thread and i'm male and very gay.
I also can't make a ball in pool,neither can any of my gay male friends.My female lesbian friends are much better than we are and they pointed out that they knew for a fact that alot of the top women pro pool players are gay.They are also role models in the lesbian community.
I don't know where you get off in ranting and raving like a know it all.I love womens pool and would love the women to beat the men in a televised pro pool tournament.I just wondered if by being a lesbian made them a better player.
Your gay amigo,
Bling.

Rich R.
06-19-2002, 04:38 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Bling Bling:</font><hr> In response to the very angry Rich R. I started this thread and i'm male and very gay.
I also can't make a ball in pool,neither can any of my gay male friends.My female lesbian friends are much better than we are and they pointed out that they knew for a fact that alot of the top women pro pool players are gay.They are also role models in the lesbian community.
I don't know where you get off in ranting and raving like a know it all.I love womens pool and would love the women to beat the men in a televised pro pool tournament.I just wondered if by being a lesbian made them a better player.
Your gay amigo,
Bling. <hr></blockquote>

Bling Bling, I have only made two prior posts in this thread and I don't believe either one should be considered a rant or a rave. I also assure you that I am not angry and I certaily do not know it all. As others, I was just expressing my opinions. I thought that is what we do here.
If I have not made it clear, my opionion is that being gay has no berring on the quality of a players pool game. I also believe that people should not make assumptions about the sexual orientation of others. Enough said, by me.
JMHO. Rich R.~~~not the least bit angry.

Doctor_D
06-19-2002, 04:58 AM
Good morning Bling:

While your intentions were honorable and sincere, I am certain that many of the remarks offered on this post, mine inclusive, were driven by the fact that this topic is very rarely discussed, by the population at large, in an intelligent light and/or format. As such, and I am as guilty as most if not moreso, I tend to respond offensively which is always one's best defensive mechanism. As a Lesbian, who has endured more then I care to recount as I emerged in the 60's, I deplore exploratory discussions and curiosities which are not driven by anything other then viable and/or meaningful outcomes. HBO, if my recollection is correct, produced a segment on Sex in Sports where homosexuality, male and female, was discussed as well as how sex itself has been used to market and sell sports and sports products. Overall, I was impressed with the production and it's content.

In closing I would like to state that I am very open about my orientation, it is currently and has always been no secret to my clients and professional colleagues, and I am very proud of who I am as a woman and as a Lesbian.

Dr. D.

cheesemouse
06-19-2002, 05:38 AM
BingBing,
I thought you had asked a reasonable question. I thought the replys were honest and sincere from all then you flame Rich. You couldn't resist could you??????? You just proved yourself the least tolerant and the most narrow minded of all. You had me faked out, I must admit.

stickman
06-19-2002, 07:43 AM
I see your point Retardo. I can understand the interest from an academic viewpoint. (Why do things work the way they work?) From a who's business is it anyway viewpoint, it really is no one's business, unless they're planning a relation with the persons. From a practical viewpoint, there is very little practicality. I'm not nor is anyone else likely to change sexuality or switch from righthanded to left to improve their pool.

SPetty
06-19-2002, 07:58 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: stickman:</font><hr> I'm not nor is anyone else likely to change sexuality or switch from righthanded to left to improve their pool. <hr></blockquote>Hi stickman,

I have to admit that I do, in fact, switch from right to left handed at times when I play in order to improve my pool. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

cuechick
06-19-2002, 08:55 AM
I agree with Fran, I do think this an attempt by some people to somehow prove that to be good at pool, there has to be some kind of "male' gene involved. Ha! I think it's funny. It did come to mind last night,that I had a team for serveral seasons of all women, 7 of which were straight, 1 gay. We made it to the APA Nationals last year, with two 6's,four 5's, and two 4's, one of which was really a 3, she is also the 'gay' member.By far the weakest on the team, and she has been playing as long or longer than I have...I think it is commitment that makes you great, nothing else.

I did remember another point Fran made in another thread about the lifestyles of men being more accomidating to that kind of commitment. I think that could also apply to gay women. I do know women with families who can not spend nearly as much time in the pool room as they did before.

06-19-2002, 09:32 AM
Bling Bling, please share with us, how do you know that any of the women pro pool players are gay? Have you been invited into their bedrooms? Do you assume some are gay because they choose not to be accompanied by a man?

If you are correct, what would it matter? Do you happen to know how many of the top male players are also gay? In the grand scheme of things, would that have more or less of an impact as the number of gay women players? How about the number of gay truck drivers or accountants? I won't even ask about priests.

Bling Bling, there are much more important things in this world to worry about. If you must have an answer, the fact of the matter is, that a percentage of the world population happens to be gay. Like so called straight people, some are good and some are bad. Some may even be able to play pool.
Deal with it.
Rich R.

This was one of your replies.
How many of the top 16 mens pro pool players are gay.None.
The top 16 women pro pool players a large percentage.
There are more important things in this world,you are correct.
But this is a billiards forum and I asked a billiard related question,which I knew some people might take the wrong way.
Your going on about the number of gay truck drivers or priests etc.
I thought I had a valid question with the issue of the number of gay women in pro pool.
I thought it was more than a coincidence.
I read most of the replies and stopped myself from responding,but yours was special.
I especially liked the Deal with it,bit at the end.
You have your opinion and that's what this forum is for.
Good luck.

Wally_in_Cincy
06-19-2002, 09:38 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: cuechick:</font><hr> I had a team for serveral seasons of all women, 7 of which were straight, 1 gay. We made it to the APA Nationals last year, with two 6's,four 5's, and two 4's, one of which was really a 3, she is also the 'gay' member.By far the weakest on the team, and she has been playing as long or longer than I have...I think it is commitment that makes you great, nothing else.
--------------------------------------------------------------

I agree. There was a local APA ladies team here that played out of a lesbian bar. 6 of the 7 members were lesbians. They were about the 7th best team out of 16 teams in the league. They didn't practice, plain and simple. The "straight" ladies on the other teams who played a lot and practiced were the best players by far.

06-19-2002, 09:47 AM
but if you happen to waggle a bit it just might

stickman
06-19-2002, 10:05 AM
I'm not abidextrous. I have shot left handed a few times but I can't say it helped my game. LOL I guess they made bridges for people like me. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Rich R.
06-19-2002, 10:27 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Bling Bling:</font><hr>
How many of the top 16 mens pro pool players are gay.None.
The top 16 women pro pool players a large percentage.
__________________________________________________ __________

I especially liked the Deal with it,bit at the end.
<hr></blockquote>
I would just like to know how you are so sure that none of the top men pros are gay and a large percentage of the top women pros are gay. Please share the source of these statistics. I have never seen the poll.

I am sorry that my use of the phrase "Deal with it" infuriated you. My only meaning was that we all have to deal with people in this world that are different, in many ways, from ourselves. Nothing more and nothing less. I will try to choose my words more carefully next time.
Rich R.

Rod
06-19-2002, 10:52 AM
Jim, why would you need a bridge? lol I use to practice left handed on a regular basis, still do once in a while.
I shoot follow and draw shots left handed much better than using a bridge, even table length when the c/b is not long distance from the o/b. My control is much better also. What bothers me about the bridge is, it puts dings in my shaft, especially when there is a need to hit a shot firm. It is a useful tool but it has limits, or I do using it. One of my inlaws told me once I had limits, I wonder if that's what they meant?/ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

06-19-2002, 11:50 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: stickman:</font><hr> I'm not nor is anyone else likely to change sexuality or switch from righthanded to left to improve their pool. <hr></blockquote>

Ok...since you brought it up I'd like to share my story with you. I played pool for 4 years as a straight woman, and my game never got above the D+ level. I tried books, videos, lessons, aim trainers etc. and nothing worked. Recently I had my first lesbian experience, and my game went up 2 balls! Not only do I think that being a lesbian improves your game, but I think all women pool players should try it out &amp; some day we'll overtake the men's tour!

06-19-2002, 12:06 PM
What on earth does sexual orientation have to do with the ability to play a good game of pool? Hmmmm.... NONE the best I can figure.

Just curious, though, where did you get the stats that a "very large percentage" of the top women pros are gay?

Michelle
06-19-2002, 12:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: stickman:</font><hr> I'm not nor is anyone else likely to change sexuality or switch from righthanded to left to improve their pool. <hr></blockquote>

possible = switching from being right-handed to left-handed, or vice-versa (with a bit of practice)

NOT possible = switching from being gay to straight, or vice-versa (no matter how much "practice" you have!)


just had to comment, stickman....you made it all sound so easy /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

06-19-2002, 01:12 PM
Now here's a guy who happens to be on the inside(or outside depending on how you want to look at it), knows the lesbian culture through open association, AND his circle reinforces what most anyone who's attended pro tour stops have seen first hand late in the evenings... some obvious petting amongst many of the combatants. Why persecute BB, saying there hasn't been flair ups at his initial post, which I personally found to be direct and unemotionally to the point of wondering why? There WAS emotional replies, just seems to be an autopilot function with some people to run with a shield and a sword and yell "We don't need to hear this." If it's a fact in any degree, then it has it's place on a discussion board(IMO.)

Good reply Bling...sid

stickman
06-19-2002, 01:27 PM
Well, I said it wasn't likely, I didn't say it was impossible. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

stickman
06-19-2002, 01:33 PM
I admit, you're probably right about the left-handed thing. I've shot left-handed before, but not at all well. I think it would take me more time than I care to invest to become good as a lefty, and I still don't think I would be as good as I am right-handed.

Harold Acosta
06-19-2002, 04:58 PM
You must be blind if you dont know who most of them are. Of the top 20 listed by BD in April, you can pinpoint 5 of them by just looking at their names. The others I don't know and at this point I don't care.

06-19-2002, 06:59 PM
Gee harold, just out of morbid curiosity, how do you tell if someone is gay by looking at their name? And why do I know I'm going to hate myself for even getting you started?

Harold Acosta
06-19-2002, 07:22 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Lorri:</font><hr> Gee harold, just out of morbid curiosity, how do you tell if someone is gay by looking at their name? And why do I know I'm going to hate myself for even getting you started? <hr></blockquote>

Lorri, go to page 88 of the April BD Magazine, read the names, and then tell me you don't know any of the listed as being gay.

06-19-2002, 07:55 PM
Please try to stay on topic Harold. You said you could tell someone is gay just by their name. How do you do this? (mundane minds want to know)

Harold Acosta
06-19-2002, 08:19 PM
Lorri, what I am saying is that anyone who reads the list may easily recognize who the gay people are. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to do that (recognize gay people). Most of the time their manerisms, attitude, presence/looks, clothing, hairstyles, talk, self-incrimination, etc., can give anyone a pretty good idea who is gay or not. Sometimes anyone can be mistaken but most of the time gays are recognizable. This goes for females and males. Like I said, no need to be a rocket scientist.

Therefore, stop being politically correct. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and to discuss whatever the heck they want. Remember, this is a free freaking country!

No names are being tossed here, and I won't go into that anyway. So don't worry, be happy, play pool, kick some ass, and get whatever satisfaction from life itself.

stickman
06-19-2002, 09:43 PM
Well Rod, at 6'6" I never need a bridge as long as I stick to the bar box tables. It's the 9 footers that get me. /ccboard/images/icons/wink.gif

06-20-2002, 02:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Doctor_D:</font><hr>

I would like to state that I am very ... proud of who I am as a woman and as a Lesbian.

Dr. D.
<hr></blockquote>

"Lead, Follow or Get Out of My Way" !!!

Call me crazy but I'm getting out of your way.BS

Doctor_D
06-20-2002, 05:24 AM
Good morning:

No one, who has prudently moved out of the way of a high speed train, was ever called Crazy.

Dr. D.

06-20-2002, 11:34 AM
I am guessing you need a weatherman to tell you which way the wind's blowing also.

griffith_d
07-01-2002, 11:17 AM
This post is a little old and I just now found this forum, and I like it the best so far, (people here seem to be sincere and have honest answers without bias or prejudice (pool/cue/people) attitudes)) so I wanted to address the question.

I far as helping a female player play better, it might, as far as it matters, I do not care.

I played a "tough" woman the other night, who was on a league, and she played pretty good, but when her male counterparts showed up and they beat me (I beat myself actually), she said that "you stink", even though she did not ever beat me. Mmmm

She seemed a little rude. But no matter, it did not effect me, I have taken 3rd in the local 9 ball tournaments two weeks in a row after she said that.

The is no accounting for attitude sometimes.

I just like playing pool the best I can and learn from anyone (male or female) who feels like throwing me a bone.

Griff