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pigbrain
08-09-2005, 11:27 PM
how many shots you will apply english(side spin) out of 100 shots? i mean do you use english very often? i know if i use english, the cueball path after collision will change even it does not hit the cushion. will you use this phenomenon in your positioning? i mean you will use sidespin to change the path when the cueball will not hit the cushion. Thank you very much!!

pooltchr
08-10-2005, 05:26 AM
If the cue ball is changing it's path after contact with the object ball, you are probably adding some above or below center spin along with the side spin. Forward and backward spin will cause the cue ball to move off the tangent line, even when it doesn't get to a rail. Side spin does it's thing when it does hit the rail.

I got to thinking about this question. I don't use a lot of side spin on most shots (maybe 20% of the time) but it is very rare that I am not working up and down the vertical center of the cue ball, so there is almost always some type of spin being placed on the cue ball. I honestly can't remember the last time I had a shot where I was trying to hit a dead center hit.
Steve

Sid_Vicious
08-10-2005, 05:42 AM
I use it a lot more than I need to, as most players do. It is not as necessary as you'd thing in most cases...sid

Fred Agnir
08-10-2005, 06:21 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pigbrain:</font><hr> how many shots you will apply english(side spin) out of 100 shots? i mean do you use english very often? <hr /></blockquote>

I'm going to guess. I think I must shoot 50%-75% with some kind of left or right. Playing on a bar table, if you simply cut a ball and use no english, the cueball is always (okay, 90%?) heading towards a pocket.

Someone suggested to look at 99 Critical Shots and see how many "Critical Shots" Ray shows with english.

Also, the Pro Book, check to see how many Pro Book Shots are with english.

Fred

Fran Crimi
08-10-2005, 07:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pigbrain:</font><hr> how many shots you will apply english(side spin) out of 100 shots? <font color="blue"> Could be as much as 95%. It depends on the player's preferences. Most top players prefer to aim slightly left or right of center. It's hard to accurately hit dead center, so the player would rather know which side they're favoring, rather than try to hit center and find themselves slightly off to the left or right. Players will intentionally play position on shots so they can use left or right to get to the next shot.</font color>

i mean do you use english very often? i know if i use english, the cueball path after collision will change even it does not hit the cushion. <font color="blue"> Yes, it can change, but only once the cb stops sliding and starts to roll. In many cases the cb will slide all the way to the rail, so no sidespin will take effect until then. </font color>

will you use this phenomenon in your positioning? i mean you will use sidespin to change the path when the cueball will not hit the cushion. Thank you very much!! <font color="blue"> It depends on the cloth. These days, with faster cloths, more players are sending the cb to the rail rather than try to control it on a fast cloth without hitting a rail. If they do want to use sidespin without hitting a rail, it's usually a softer hit, accompanied by backspin, since topspin will almost surely get you to a rail. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> Fran </font color>

Billy_Bob
08-10-2005, 07:41 AM
I use sidespin or english about 20% of the time with cue ball directly hitting object ball shots, but mostly use draw or follow.

The only time I use english on these shots usually is when the cue ball will hit a rail after the hit and the natural angle from the rail will not work (other balls in way, scratch, will send cue ball to bad spot for next shot, etc.)

I very rarely use english to make a ball. The only time I do this is to use outside english to reduce throw when a it is a cut shot and the object ball is close to the rail. Or maybe use an inside english rail first shot when object ball is just a hair away from rail.

For kick shots, I use english quite a bit, maybe 80%. Sometimes just a little running (inside) english. Sometimes depending on if the table is "long" or "short" when using diamonds. Or sometimes I need to aim straight at the far rail (due to blocking balls), yet need the ball to come back to the left/right.

Sometimes I have a choice between using english to get the cue ball into a perfect spot for the next shot or not using english and having a slightly more difficult shot. In these cases, I play it safe and don't use english. It is quite common for me to get perfect position using english and not pocket the ball while doing so. So not a good idea if it can be avoided! However I am quite likely to pocket a difficult shot. So I would rather leave myself with a more difficult shot than to risk missing because I was using english.

SpiderMan
08-10-2005, 07:47 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pigbrain:</font><hr> how many shots you will apply english(side spin) out of 100 shots? i mean do you use english very often? i know if i use english, the cueball path after collision will change even it does not hit the cushion. will you use this phenomenon in your positioning? i mean you will use sidespin to change the path when the cueball will not hit the cushion. Thank you very much!! <hr /></blockquote>

My guess is that I use at least a small amount of intentional sidespin on 4 out of 5 shots, if not more.

I play a lot of local "weekly" tournaments in venues where dirty or poorly-maintained equipment may be the norm. Because of this, I tend to favor a touch of outside english to reduce the effects of variable object-ball throw (cling) and improve my shotmaking. There are also many cases where the desired cueball action after rail contact dictates sidespin.

The prevalent cases where I wouldn't use side would be shots that are straight-in (or nearly so), or shots where I stun sideways and desire "natural" response at the next collision (rail or otherwise). These probably involve no more than 20% of total shots.

BTW, I mainly play 8-ball.

SpiderMan

stephen_joyce
08-10-2005, 08:51 AM
1 SHOT IN FIVE AFTER I HAVE RUN OUT OF POSITION TO MUCH

Fred Agnir
08-10-2005, 08:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> Most top players prefer to aim slightly left or right of center. It's hard to accurately hit dead center, so the player would rather know which side they're favoring, rather than try to hit center and find themselves slightly off to the left or right. <hr /></blockquote>IMO, this is a hugely important point that frankly is beyond the scope of the average player (okay, paper tigers). On many shots, slight english favoring the shot pattern won't hurt, but slight english opposing the shot pattern might be devastating.

Fred

Jal
08-10-2005, 12:17 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pigbrain:</font><hr>...
i know if i use english, the cueball path after collision will change even it does not hit the cushion...<hr /></blockquote>

According to theory, this shouldn't happen unless the butt of the cue is elevated above normal and the balls are close enough so that some masse spin is retained after impact.

Jim