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cheesemouse
06-18-2002, 04:09 PM
ROLL OUT SITUATION
It's your first game of the first match of a tournament with a strong field and you don't know anyone. You just broke the rack, made a ball but hooked youself on the one ball which sits in the very center of the table. Your very nervous and you assume your opponent is also nervous. Would you challenge the guy by rolling out to the corner which leaves a long straight in diagonal shot which has to be slow rolled in order to keep shape on the two ball? Also would you hope the guy takes the shot in hopes that he will make the first mistake of the match or would you rather take this shot yourself and risk making the first mistake yourself?

Tom_In_Cincy
06-18-2002, 04:26 PM
yes, I would rather give up the table with a difficult shot to my opponent than give up the table with "ball in hand" if I tried to kick at one ball and missed.

Drake
06-18-2002, 04:33 PM
Would I have rolled out to that shot?? Probably not, unless I tried to freeze the cue ball on the rail. I would take the shot if it was my option. I'll always take a shot that let's me win the game. I would kick myself the rest of the match if my opponent rolled in the one and ran three racks on me.

06-18-2002, 04:41 PM
The only way I'd roll out to that shot is if he couldn't get position on the 2 if he made it, so based on your scenario, I wouldn't consider that roll out an option. If the 2 is up table as you said, then I might roll out to leave a tough cut on the one in the side, where he has to let the cue ball run loose. Lots of things can happen when you let the cue loose with a full rack of balls still on the table. I might also elect to tie up some balls at the same time I push to the cut shot. Rolling out to a safety shot is dangerous because he can play the safe against you. I'd say I would have to try to lure him into shooting a cut shot.

Fran

06-18-2002, 04:42 PM

Rod
06-18-2002, 05:44 PM
Cheese, I would not push out there. I would take the shot if it was left there. I don't know the table situation so it's hard to say. I might move the two or tie up a ball.The main thing I look out for is not to trap myself by leaving my opponent with a safety play and not let him have easy position on the next ball. Set it up on the wei.

cheesemouse
06-18-2002, 05:58 PM
Rod, this is what I was trying to discribe. The challenge being the guy has to put a great stroke right out of the box, the thinking being that he knows you've thrown down the gaunlet early and that your not afraid to take this shot.
P.S. Can't believe I didn' think of using wei, dah.....

START(
%A[4O4%Bk4D3%CH0H7%Dd8D6%Fl3I9%GG5J9%Hg9E5%Ir4J9%PC8Y 6

)END

06-18-2002, 06:23 PM
Thanks for the diagram. Overall, I still like my choice. I still wouldn't choose the option to let him shoot straight in. I'd leave him a small angle, tempt him with the cut in the side. If he takes the shot either in the side or corner, he takes it. Nothing I can do, but I don't want to shoot that shot, beginning, middle or end of the match, nerves or no nerves. It's low percentage. If he gives it back to me I'd shoot a double cross bank safety on the one with inside spin to bring the cue ball back down behind the 3 and 7. He can try that shot too, but for me, personally, it's my strong shot and I'll be leaving him very little room to beat the kiss from where I'm placing the cue ball.

START(
%A[4O4%Bk4D3%CH0H7%Dd8D6%Fl3I9%GG5J9%Hg9E5%Ir4J9%PF9[0%Ur9O8
%V[3P1%W`2D1%X[5N4%Yl8Z9%Z`5C5%[s0R0%\l9[4%]Z9P3%^G3Z7%_E0H2
%`J2C4%as3O5
)END

Ralph S.
06-18-2002, 06:26 PM
If you are confident you can make the shot , then take it. You can always play a safe on the 2 if you overplay position on it.
Ralph S.

Tom_In_Cincy
06-18-2002, 06:28 PM
Cheesey..
Your original post said <blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>You just broke the rack, made a ball but hooked youself on the one ball which sits in the very center of the table. <hr></blockquote>

But now your wei table drawing shows you have a clear shot at the one ball.. this changes my original reply....

Even if you make the one ball, chances are that you won't get shape on the 2 ball. The 4, 8 and 6 are all in good shape to act as blockers...

You are up against the rail with the cue ball.. so you will be putting top on the cue when you hit it. I would try to cut the one ball into the 4 and 8 area, and let the cue ball end up going to the end rail somewhere between the 6 and the 9. You might be able to get a hook out of this and have them kicking to get a good hit.

Something like this:
START(
%Ad2E4%Bk4D3%CH0H7%Df8D6%Fl3I9%GG5J9%Hh1G0%Ir4J9%P q0K2

)END

John in NH
06-18-2002, 06:32 PM
Hi Rod,

I'm not familiar with the WEI, what is it?
How is it used?

John

Rod
06-18-2002, 06:42 PM
Hi John, it is a program to set up shots on a pool table. Very useful for these situations. Read about it here and download the file. You copy and paste the shot/s, which is the string of numbers etc that you see.
Here is the link http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2_help.html#download
Or here is a link to that table. http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html

cheesemouse
06-18-2002, 06:45 PM
John,
It is a tool that allows you too set up balls on a table then copy the layout to your clip board which you can post in the form of a code that anyone can copy and paste to there wei download. Here is the site: http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2_help.html#download

John in NH
06-18-2002, 07:01 PM
Hi Rod,

Thanks for the info,

I'll give it a try,

Regards,

John

John in NH
06-18-2002, 07:11 PM
Hi cheesemouse,

Thanks for the info,

Regards,

John

Jay M
06-18-2002, 07:48 PM
personally I am rather partial to this shot

START(
%A[4O4%Bk4D3%CH0H7%Dd8D6%Fl3I9%GG5J9%Hg9E5%Ir4J9%PC8Y 6%Q]7C2
%UD9G6%VJ8D2%WZ3P6%XD0Z0%Yr4W4%Z[8P4%[q2Z8%\r9X4%]K9D9%^p0Z9
)END

but that may be because it is an every day shot in 3C. the one will hit the rail somewhere near the A and end up down near the 9, forcing your opponent to come up with a nice hit or lose the game/allow for another safety behind the group. It's a winning shot if you have confidence and an eye for the angle. If you aren't sure of the angles, don't play it, it's easy to scratch. btw, you put extreme top right on the cue with speed to lose the spin before it hits the opposite end rail, for some reason the spin is never copied for me.

Jay M

Rod
06-18-2002, 08:11 PM
Well my thought is one of us is on drugs, and it ain't me. I don't mean you personally. If he left me that shot, I'd let him shoot. There is a safety there, but a little weak if you ask me considering the c/b is froze on the rail. If he makes the one ball, that's another story. If he misses, yet again another story. Where was the c/b before the push?

cheesemouse
06-18-2002, 08:15 PM
Here: START(
%A[4O4%Bk4D3%CH0H7%Dd8D6%Fl3I9%GG5J9%Hg9E5%Ir4J9%PF0I 4

)END

Jay M
06-18-2002, 08:28 PM
aha, I knew there had to be something missing. I don't like the rollout that you chose for two reasons. 1, it's a straight shot to make the ball and just follow it into the area near the 2. Even if the shot is missed, he ends up with a safe against you. 2, you are leaving him too many options, if I was the opponent, i'd just play the shot that I diagrammed and you'd be stuck in the same situation that you are in now, except that you would have a tougher hit and if you missed the hit, I'd have the 1-9.

For my roll out, I'd put him in an awkward place where there is very very little chance of a safety and he is forced to make the ball with a stroke to get near the 2 to play a safe back at you.

START(
%A[4O4%Bk4D3%CH0H7%Dd8D6%Fl3I9%GG5J9%Hg9E5%Ir4J9%PF0I 4%WC8L4
%XF0J0%YV3Z3%ZC4M1%[r8T1%\W4Z8
)END

works for me. just a nice easy touch roll out. as long as you get past the 1, you're ok, the closer to the end rail the better. Worst case scenario is that he makes a good shot and plays you safe. if he doesn't make the ball, he'll leave you a shot (unless he is VERY good) and you'll be on the right side of the one to get back on the two. If you are a good jumper, you might also consider just pushing the cue off the other two balls to give yourself room to get over them. He'll give the shot back to you, almost guaranteed. You execute your jump not to make the ball, but to hit it and roll behind the pack. Another shot not for the faint of heart. If the one falls, you use the two to play safe as you are in the right area, but that's not your goal, your goal is to put whitey behind the group.

Jay M

Tom_In_Cincy
06-18-2002, 08:44 PM
I like your safe/push form that position to.
Good thinking..

cheesemouse
06-18-2002, 08:49 PM
Fran,
I like your roll out too but I was kind of thinking it was a good move too offer up the obvious straight in shot that came with out postition if hit very well and that I was not considering a safty but challenging his game right now early when your both checking each other out. If he takes the bait and misses it may send his heart into overdrive never to recover. If he gives it back and you make the shot and get out that could put him into the Red Alert zone. If you dump and he gets out at least you've shown heart and there is alot of match to go. I just thought it was a good % move given no one is comfortable yet. Just offering the shot you strike the first blow of the match.

cheesemouse
06-18-2002, 08:53 PM
Hey, anyone, how do you make the arrows and labels work??????????

06-19-2002, 12:18 AM
Jay, it's hard to tell without shooting the shot, but isn't there a higher probability of catching a kiss there when the cb is coming out of the corner and the one ball is banking off point "A"? I know reverse somtimes helps beat the kiss which is my reasoning for going that way. I could be misreading the shot but that's how I'm seeing it in the diagram.

Fran

Doctor_D
06-19-2002, 05:37 AM
Good morning:

I would roll out / push out to the rail leaving my opponent a very difficult shot.

Dr. D.

Jay M
06-19-2002, 08:03 AM
The kiss isn't there on this one. if the one was closer to the end with the 3/7 I'd say yes, but when it is past the half table mark, you are fairly safe from the kiss. The biggest danger is the scratch in the corner or missing the end rail and hitting the side rail first. This isn't a shot for the faint of heart, but it happens to be one of my favorite safeties to use. It doesn't take a fantastic stroke to be able to make it work (I know a lot of players that are high B to low A players that couldn't execute the shot the way that you diagrammed it because they don't have the stroke to reverse that far off the end rail.) Just food for thought. Later on I'll go set it up and see which way kisses and which way is easier to execute, but I think that it's just a personal choice between the two.

Jay M