View Full Version : seeking a higher level

06-18-2002, 05:50 PM
I am an amature player. i have played in several higher level tournaments. a.p.a. as well as b.c.a. i play at the high end of the skill level. i am looking to play in a more controlled more frequent type of atmosphere. I reside in michigan, and would like to hear of any consistent tournaments here locally or maybe within a reasonable distance. I am very interested in trying to go pro.. how do you get recognized and picked up by sponsors for a pro type player?

Scott Lee
06-18-2002, 10:49 PM
First of all, there is NO sponsorship in pro pool. With the exceptions of a small handful of pro players, nobody is getting any sponsorship of note...perhaps a free cue, but that is the extent of it for most of the pros that get ANYTHING at all. You would be better off to pursue an occupation that will pay your bills; and then play in as many regional pro and semi-pro events as you can afford the time and money. Sorry...this may not be what you would like to hear, but it is the reality of pro pool. There is usually a pro one-pocket tournament every Sept. at the Billiards Playground, which I believe is in Kalamazoo.

Scott Lee

Chris Cass
06-18-2002, 11:44 PM
Hi Poolwiz67,

Scott pretty much sum'd it up. If I were you I'd try to stay, in the amature events. That's, where all the money is anyway. If your old enough, stay with the casino events.
There's no money in being a pro. You have to sweat your standings and can only enter like, 5 events per yr.

Not only that, you won't be allowed to enter the amature events. It's up to you, go pro for ego, and stay hungry.

Good luck,


Scott Lee
06-19-2002, 01:06 PM
Chris...not exactly true! Look at all the top pros entering (and winning) local and regional tour events on the Joss and Viking Tours. Those are supposedly "amateur" tours, but the pros are not kept off!...especially now that there are so few 'pro' events to enter.


06-19-2002, 04:08 PM
Scott is right; pros can enter amateur events providing they are events "sanctioned" by the applicable governing pool organization (PBA, WPBA, etc.)

I agree with Chris, though, that there may be very limited benefit for Poolwiz in trying to achieve "pro" status. He is already eligible to play in every event the pros are except the "pro" events--literally only a handful of opportunities as Scott mentioned.

Frankly, there's even less financial "return on investment" to be realized in achieving pro status. Because there are so few pro events annually, even a player who consistently finishes in the money is unlikely to recoup the monies spent on entry fees (which had been running around $400 a few years back), and travel expenses (flights, lodging, meals, etc.)...not to mention membership dues.

If Poolwiz's goal is to play at "higher levels", he can achieve that by playing in the regional events since pros are attending those with more regularity. As to the "more frequently" component, regional events outnumber pro events several times over and the entry fee is usually less, too.

06-19-2002, 05:39 PM
I appreciate all the feedback i have recieved thus far. Most have suggested keeeping away from the pro type player. Have some of the responses been made on an experience someone has gone thru. I believe there are good and bad points to anything you do in life, especially if for the wrong reasons. My ego is not in question at this time, I am seeking a goal in my life. I just would like to see if i have what it takes. Also, my user name states (stranger) next to it. is there a reason for this....lol..what does it take to not be a stranger?

06-19-2002, 05:45 PM
What are these titles about?

Everyone has a title within the forum. You will notice them below the Username in each post. Some titles are automatically assigned based on the number of posts a user has made, and some titles are assigned by the forum owner to denote official representatives of the company or other VIPs in the forums.
Here is the list of the standard titles and # of posts to achieve them:

0 stranger
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50 journeyman
100 member
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1200 veteran
1600 Pooh-Bah
2500 Carpal Tunnel

Jay M
06-19-2002, 06:21 PM
here's the scoop from personal experience.

Right now, pros aren't making very much in the way of tournament winnings. We hope to change this in the somewhat near future, but as of right now, only the top 5 are making anything close to decent money. You'll notice if you browse their tournament schedules that the vast majority of their winnings come from a single tournament.

As to sponsors: I am one of the few men out there that has enough sponsors to support my playing, on the women's side, Jeanette Lee has the lead in sponsorship earnings, but that is because she did a fantastic job of marketing herself.

The vast majority of sponsorship right now is in the form of product endorsements in return for product. i.e. a cue maker gives you a cue in return for endorsing their product line.

Cash sponsors are few and far between.

There are very very few pros that are making it entirely on playing tournament pool. There are others out there that make their money from gambling, I don't know of any lists of gambling earnings 8P .

The bottom line is that to break into the pro ranks right now is tough and you'll have to do it while supporting yourself through other means. If you really want to see how you stack up against the pros, play the regionals and opens. The pros play them as well and you'll have a good starting place to see just how far away you are. If you start winning a number of the events, use the winnings to finance the larger events. If you are still winning at that point, then have at it and get your touring pro status (you can get it now, but it doesn't mean anything at the moment except that you get ranked and your points count towards the various awards and the invitationals see http://www.upatour.com for more information on what is involved in being a touring pro). If you aren't winning, then at least you'll know what you need to work on.

Jay M

Chris Cass
06-19-2002, 07:04 PM
Hi Scott,

Take this weekend. John Stitch is having a $40. entry and $10,000. added event, no matter if 16 players attended. That's the nutz. It's at Red Wing Mn. I wanted to go bad but you have had to qualify, by attending Whitey's tourneys or casino tourney's he's hosted. (W.A.P.T. events)

Evelyn and Danny are throwing one on also, $3500. added. A good player, has the opportunity to get into the cash. If he or she, can play. I've seen, pros in these too. That don't mean, they have to win.

There's tons of events in MN. That John and Tony Z. throws on that are opens. There's tons of pros that play. That arn't clasified as pros too. Take Lee Heuwagon, just for instance. Not to knock his action but he's aready shown what he can do. He's not rated yet. Soon, I'm sure.

I'm just saying, there's alot of money that can be made without, facing a pro to do it. Sure there's pros in these events but with the right draw, a little bit of luck and your in the doe. LOL Not that I, have anything other than Buzzard luck. LMAO



Chris Cass
06-19-2002, 07:50 PM
I am pleased to tell you that there is a tour of tournaments here in the midwest which includes Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Illinois, and both north and south dakota. We call it The Midwest Casino Pool Tour. It has been going for 5 years now and this summer the tournament directors (John Stich and Myself) have been taking extra measures to see a new growth as well as bringing back some of the Midwest pool players favorite locations again this year. You can find information here at MNBILLIARDS>COM or even in Chalk Talk Magazine so make sure you keep your eyes peeled this fall cause were gonna hold some real large events this year and I know i am looking forward to seeing all my friends at the tournaments and rooting them on!!
This is a reply from Tony Zierman to a shooter looking for a tourney.


Scott Lee
06-19-2002, 10:58 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: poolwiz67:</font><hr> Also, my user name states (stranger) next to it. is there a reason for this....lol..what does it take to not be a stranger? <hr></blockquote>

Just make more posts! LOL That title is just the first of many you will accumulate as you post more here!

Scott Lee

06-20-2002, 10:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Jay M:</font><hr>
As to sponsors: I am one of the few men out there that has enough sponsors to support my playing, on the women's side, Jeanette Lee has the lead in sponsorship earnings, but that is because she did a fantastic job of marketing herself.<hr></blockquote>Hi Jay,

So are you considered a "pro"? For the men, what is the criteria of being considered a "pro" vs being an amateur? Is it just paying dues ($)? Or is it based on winning? My understanding from this board is that women are pros by virtue of paying WPBA dues ($) and placing appropriately in sanctioned tournaments. Is it the same for the men?

Jay M
06-20-2002, 11:09 AM
As of right now, officially being a touring pro on the men's side just means you paid the sanctioning fee. Yes, I paid the fee, but I did it primarily to help support the sport rather than out of any real expectations of maintaining my lifestyle and paying the bills by playing pool. I fall in the grey area between A+ and Pro. Against other players in the same ability range within this area, I usually can win an even match. I guess I would be what you would call a local pro. I can compete and win within the group of players in the local area at any time, but the national and international players can beat me about 90% of the time. To give you an idea, here are some of the stats that people like to compile.

High 14.1 Run: 187
High 9 ball run 6 racks from the snap (three times) + most of the first rack (I never did figure out whether running from the 2 out and then stringing 6 more racks on top was a 6 or 7 pack)
Balls on the break - (9 ball) 7 once (I suspect that rack a bit) (8 ball) 8 balls 4 times
Strengths - safety play, breaks and kicks.
Weakness - consistency (I just don't practice often enough)

So the short answer is yes, I am officially a "pro" but the reality is that I fall a bit short of what most people call a pro.

Yes, the women have to place in events. Right now the men are in the early stages. I suspect that once the Association is a little stronger, they will begin to change the criteria to force the issue.

Jay M

06-20-2002, 06:47 PM
Where in Michigan u are from?