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View Full Version : "Z" shot aiming or aiming system?



Billy_Bob
09-10-2005, 07:52 AM
Seems like I have not needed to shoot a "Z" shot for a year (or maybe did not see it), then it came up twice in one game the other night, then again last night - only shot I had in each situation. (My friend I play with most is getting *much* better at leaving me with no shot whatsoever...)

I realized that I have never practiced these and have no idea how to aim for a "Z" shot.

Is there an aiming system for "Z" shots? How do you aim for "Z" shots?

Pied Piper
09-10-2005, 09:24 AM
My aiming system is the classic of all time. Best guess and hope like hell. Probably why I am not professional. But in my opinion, I always try avoid the use of english with a complex shot like that since it seems to just add another variable. Though I do find using follow seems to aim the shot a little bit better. If you do find some method that seems to help you out please don't forget to post it!

heater451
09-10-2005, 09:56 AM
By "Z" shot, do you mean a cross-table, double-bank?

The 'second' angle will usually be less than half the 'first' angle, although this can be adjusted by speed and english. However, since you usually need to hit hard enough to make the distance, the second angle is normally smaller than half the first.

For example, if you are shooting this ( wei table (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html) ):

START(%Aa5K4%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%H M7N8%IL7O4%JK6M5
%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%Ml0L4%NJ5R0%OJ5M0%PY0W5%Ur3E4%Vo7Z4%W `5M0%XY7V6
%Yo0Z2%Ze6D7%[d9D7%\a9J3)END


. . .you can often simply aim a single-bank, but instead of aiming for the pocket with it, aim "shorter" than the pocket. I find that getting around 4-6 inches out of the pocket works alright, but there's still the speed/english issue.

I'm not sure if the mirror-system for banks/kicks can be adjusted for a double, but if I get the chance to mess with it, I will post again.



==================================

100andout
09-10-2005, 12:05 PM
Do you mean a shot like this?

START(
%Am5E3%BD1U0%Ph7J6%UL5G2%VU6[1%Wl0F5%Xi2I8%Yr4D2%Zn1E0%[k6D2
%\l0D8%]W0Z7%^k2C3%eA7b3
)END

Cane
09-10-2005, 12:16 PM
Never thought I'd be on here promoting anyone's pool book (Most of them have, IMO more bad information than good information), but I just got Freddy the Beards book yesterday. I play a pretty damn mean game of short rack banks and I learned at least a three new shots last night alone, that I would never tried had I not read it. Man, these are dead in shots! Hard to miss! Your double bank is in it, by the way, and it explains how to make it consistently.

Thanks Freddy... Damn good read, damn good information, and your aiming method is the one I use already, so I adapted to it immediately!

Later,
Bob

Stretch
09-10-2005, 01:21 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cane:</font><hr> Never thought I'd be on here promoting anyone's pool book (Most of them have, IMO more bad information than good information), but I just got Freddy the Beards book yesterday. I play a pretty damn mean game of short rack banks and I learned at least a three new shots last night alone, that I would never tried had I not read it. Man, these are dead in shots! Hard to miss! Your double bank is in it, by the way, and it explains how to make it consistently.

Thanks Freddy... Damn good read, damn good information, and your aiming method is the one I use already, so I adapted to it immediately!

Later,
Bob <hr /></blockquote>

That's very helpfull Bob, just buy the book eh? lol So quit teasing us and just post what the book says about making this shot consistantly. I'm sure everyone including myself would love to here thoughts from the Beard on this. St.

Billy_Bob
09-12-2005, 10:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 100andout:</font><hr> Do you mean a shot like this?<hr /></blockquote>

No, like the shot heater451 posted above...

Billy
09-12-2005, 10:42 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy_Bob:</font><hr> Seems like I have not needed to shoot a "Z" shot for a year (or maybe did not see it), then it came up twice in one game the other night, then again last night - only shot I had in each situation. (My friend I play with most is getting *much* better at leaving me with no shot whatsoever...)

I realized that I have never practiced these and have no idea how to aim for a "Z" shot.

Is there an aiming system for "Z" shots? How do you aim for "Z" shots?
<hr /></blockquote>

heater451 is right on

playing one pocket you'll use this shot often - long or short rail

the second angle will always be shorter especially when you hit it with considerable speed.lagging to the pocket the second angle will be a bit longer.this is very much a feel shot for the more experienced player

jmo - and a good post

Billy_Bob
09-13-2005, 06:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy:</font><hr>...the second angle will always be shorter especially when you hit it with considerable speed.lagging to the pocket the second angle will be a bit longer.this is very much a feel shot for the more experienced player
<hr /></blockquote>

OK, I hope I am not being a pest here, but as you can probably tell, I am a "Z shot challenged person"! I understand the first part now about the second angle being shorter, but....

What do you mean when you say "lagging to the pocket"?

How would I shoot a lagging shot?

When you say "lagging to the pocket the second angle will be a bit longer", do you mean it will be longer than the first angle, or do you mean that it will still be a shorter angle than the first angle, but a little bit wider angle than the first example?

Stretch
09-13-2005, 09:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy_Bob:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy:</font><hr>...the second angle will always be shorter especially when you hit it with considerable speed.lagging to the pocket the second angle will be a bit longer.this is very much a feel shot for the more experienced player
<hr /></blockquote>

OK, I hope I am not being a pest here, but as you can probably tell, I am a "Z shot challenged person"! I understand the first part now about the second angle being shorter, but....

What do you mean when you say "lagging to the pocket"?

How would I shoot a lagging shot?

When you say "lagging to the pocket the second angle will be a bit longer", do you mean it will be longer than the first angle, or do you mean that it will still be a shorter angle than the first angle, but a little bit wider angle than the first example?
<hr /></blockquote>

I'll give this one a shot. The term Lagging is another way of saying pocket speed, just enough to drop over the edge. If it were a putt and u missed the hole you'd only go by it a couple inches like two to four. In eight ball u don't want to over hit banks. There's an advantage in missing but sticking around. Especialy if it's blocking your oponents balls.

For Z shots (srry i didn't see the examples) the second rail always comes off at a shorter angle than the first rail. It's because the first cushion imparts running side to the ob which of course turns into check side on the opposite cush.

Look at the Z like the top was squished down a bit. Then Map it on the table like a squished Z. For MOST ppl. it's a very low percentage shot BUT effective if the weight is right. Just something to think about. St.

Bob_Jewett
09-13-2005, 10:05 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Stretch:</font><hr> ... For Z shots (srry i didn't see the examples) the second rail always comes off at a shorter angle than the first rail. It's because the first cushion imparts running side to the ob which of course turns into check side on the opposite cush.... <hr /></blockquote>
This is true for all banked object ball shots I can think of, but it's not true for banking the cue ball. If you use reverse side spin on the first cushion, the angle of the cue ball will widen on the second cushion where the english will be running. Side/side-reverse/running was a favorite pattern of Sang Lee.

I have not heard of this shot referred to as a Z shot. I think most banks players would refer to it as "twice cross side" or "twice cross corner."

freddythebeard
09-13-2005, 10:21 AM
Gosh darn it Bob,
I invented the term in my new bank book because the shot sortof takes a Z path. Private message me your address and I will send you a book -- I shoulda sent you one earlier.
The Beard

Billy
09-14-2005, 02:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy_Bob:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy:</font><hr>...the second angle will always be shorter especially when you hit it with considerable speed.lagging to the pocket the second angle will be a bit longer.this is very much a feel shot for the more experienced player
<hr /></blockquote>

OK, I hope I am not being a pest here, but as you can probably tell, I am a "Z shot challenged person"! I understand the first part now about the second angle being shorter, but....

What do you mean when you say "lagging to the pocket"?

How would I shoot a lagging shot?

When you say "lagging to the pocket the second angle will be a bit longer", do you mean it will be longer than the first angle, or do you mean that it will still be a shorter angle than the first angle, but a little bit wider angle than the first example?
<hr /></blockquote>

trying to learn a thing or two shouldn't be considered a pest

Stretch is correct - lagging is hitting it pocket speed

I don't how to use the wei thing but yes you understand that the first angle will always be longer than the angle coming off second cushion

object ball speed then dictates how long or short will be the second angle

jmo

Billy
09-14-2005, 02:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Stretch:</font><hr> ... For Z shots (srry i didn't see the examples) the second rail always comes off at a shorter angle than the first rail. It's because the first cushion imparts running side to the ob which of course turns into check side on the opposite cush.... <hr /></blockquote>
This is true for all banked object ball shots I can think of, but it's not true for banking the cue ball. If you use reverse side spin on the first cushion, the angle of the cue ball will widen on the second cushion where the english will be running. Side/side-reverse/running was a favorite pattern of Sang Lee.

I have not heard of this shot referred to as a Z shot. I think most banks players would refer to it as "twice cross side" or "twice cross corner." <hr /></blockquote>

I consider myself a good bank player and certainly would refer to it as "twice cross side" or whatever while shooting in a match or actually calling the shot

the more you would have thought about Bob I'm sure your common sense would prevailed

also not that I've seen or read Fred's book but I've heard this expresson of Z bank for as long as I can remember.I guess I've hung around all the wrong people in my day :0)

jmo ---&gt; while hearing many good to excellent comments of the book

HALHOULE
09-15-2005, 03:21 AM
ANY ONE MAY MAKE SINGLE, DOUBLE, TRIPLE, CROSS SIDE OR CROSS CORNER BANKS EASILY.

HAL HOULE

HALHOULE
10-30-2005, 02:38 AM
THERE IS NO FEEL NECESSARY FOR THE SHOT. ANYONE CAN USE HIS AIMING SYSTEM TO MAKE THE SHOTS.

Billy
11-01-2005, 12:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote HALHOULE:</font><hr> THERE IS NO FEEL NECESSARY FOR THE SHOT. ANYONE CAN USE HIS AIMING SYSTEM TO MAKE THE SHOTS. <hr /></blockquote>

ok Mr Houle, will the word 'speed' be sufficient instead of feel?

jmo