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View Full Version : cut angle aiming... what am I doing wrong?



Godzilla
09-17-2005, 08:58 PM
Hi, I am looking for any advice on how people "see" or aim for moderate or sharp angles into a corner pocket. I am having difficulty lately in dialing in and I believe its a problem with my aim as opposed problems with shooting. The reason I think so is the rest of my game has never been better, I am feeling very confident in even full table straight or low angle shots and have worked out(the hard way) many of the problems with my stroke. I'll show you a couple of the shots I am getting myself into lately that I am missing, almost always on the hitting the ball too fat.

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I practice these shots daily and even when I get a feel for them( it feels like I am aiming incorrectly but compensate) I hop downstairs the next morning to try them out and do the same thing all over again. I need help!! is it all in my brain?

I would love to take lessons if they were available to me but being 8 hours north of toronto, canada I am unable to find anyone that can teach me. any ideas would be greatly appreciated
Thanks, Godzilla

ras314
09-18-2005, 10:06 AM
I'm suprised you aren't getting any response, would like to see some answers also. Maybe everybody is headed for Virginia, the lucky dogs.

Since you have covered the obvious practice a lot solution the next suggestion would be to see if there is any difference in left or right cuts. Also an obvious question is how well you see the ob. For a long time I've worn glasses that caused curvature in the vision out to the sides. This made the pocket look like it was not where it was and took a looong time to practice enough to get used to it. That has recently been corrected and I am back to stroke errors causing most misses.

I have never been able to use aiming systems people describe so maybe someone else can be of more help.

JPB
09-18-2005, 11:28 AM
I have just started using them myself, so I can't give a full review yet. But I think you should go to Joe Tuckers website and get a set of his aiming by the numbers balls. Good quality balls from aramith. And an aiming system. I just started with it yesterday and think it will help get me on some shots right. What I also noticed very quickly is that some shots I saw great. Others I had problems with. I think the system will quickly improve my worst shots. try it. It's cheap and simple and so far seems effective to me.

Godzilla
09-18-2005, 12:56 PM
Thanks JPB, I'll look into it. I have been wondering if it may be an eye related problem so I am getting my eyesight checked later this week. I have fairly good vision but my left eye is noticably weaker than my right if that could have anything to do with it.

I have never used any aiming systems, I've always just hit the ball where it seemed correct but the last day or two I have been trying those shots using the ghost ball technique and it seems to help me to a degree, maybe it is just slowing me down and letting me aim better, I don't know. anyway thanks for the replies,
Godzilla

Leviathan
09-18-2005, 06:31 PM
If you're not already cool with collision-induced throw (CIT) it might help you to read up on it. CIT can be pretty severe with the kinds of shots you've diagrammed, and it causes what look like "fat hit" misses. Dr. Dave posted some interesting stuff about CIT recently:

http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=ccb&Number=200743&page=2&v iew=collapsed&sb=5&o=7&fpart=1



AS

Godzilla
09-19-2005, 02:22 AM
Thanks Leviathan, that seems to be exactly what is happening. I think I naturally understood that CIT happens but reading Dr Dave's material and some from the other members I think the shots that I am having the most trouble with are near max CIT levels and the throw I am inducing is more than I am accounting for. I've tried it out a little hitting a more solid shot and have been having much more success with the shots I listed. Thanks for the great link really opened my eyes to what was going on there.

ras314
09-19-2005, 08:14 AM
I really wouldn't expect any significant throw, either collision or spin induced, with the angles you show and the relatively short distances the ob has to travel.

An interesting subject to me so I set up this shot so that a half ball hit with a natural rolling cb was dead center pocket.

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Idea was to see how much throw I could get and then spray some slickum on the balls to make sure it went away. No joy, whatever I did the ball would go every shot unless I miscued or something. I can't even tell for sure that it favors one side of the pocket with either inside or outside english, slow speed,stun, draw, whatever. This is on a Diamond with the 4 9/16 corner pockets. Maybe my balls are just too clean. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I'm now in the process of studying Dr Daves graphs more closely.

Leviathan
09-19-2005, 08:29 AM
You're welcome. I posted the suggestion partly because I have good memories of northern Ontario. I went to school in London (Ont.) and in Ottawa and had acquaintances from Ottawa to Thunder Bay. Jesus, Thunder Bay, what a place! I once accompanied a friend to a Satan's Choicers camp just outside town to pick up a Norton part. (The Choicers had stolen the part for him.) Beautiful country--I often wish I'd stayed up there.

AS

Leviathan
09-19-2005, 11:55 AM
Hi, Ras. That's interesting. I wonder what would happen on your equipment if you set Godzilla's second shot up as a kiss, like this?

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Would you get a significant amount of throw? I've put the third ball in to ensure that the point of contact with the ob will be in about the same place every time. I get some throw when I shoot kisses like this, but maybe some or all of that throw is the result of interactions that don't occur when only two balls are involved--I wouldn't know. I'd like to know how the amount of throw on a kiss is related to the amount of throw on a corresponding non-kiss shot.

AS

ras314
09-19-2005, 02:28 PM
Leviathan, with the cb moved out from your diagram to get more "throw action" from the 3 ball I was able to get a little CIT, but at this position the 9 would still drop.

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So I set up a combo on the head spot for more distance and was able to get maybe a half ball throw by the foot rail.

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Next I tried the combination of CIT and SIT as shown (red arrow represents the cue):

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About a full ball diameter of throw seems as much as I can get. I distinctly remember playing with this last set up on a bar table and getting nearly a full diamond of throw.

These are the super aramith pro balls, no idea if there is any difference in throw in different composition balls. They are kept wiped off but I haven't waxed them.

About to go to a bar tournament tonight, I'll see what happens on their equipment.

Leviathan
09-19-2005, 03:30 PM
Thanks, ras; I wondered. And good luck tonight!--AS

dr_dave
09-20-2005, 07:44 AM
Godzilla,

FYI, you can find some other advice on aiming and throw effects under the appropriate headings in the threads summary section of my website (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/threads.html). Good luck with those thin cuts. Even if your aim is good, your stroke still needs to be deadly accurate on very thin cuts (see some of the links under "shot difficulty as a function of distance" for more info).

Regards,
Dave

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Godzilla:</font><hr> Thanks Leviathan, that seems to be exactly what is happening. I think I naturally understood that CIT happens but reading Dr Dave's material and some from the other members I think the shots that I am having the most trouble with are near max CIT levels and the throw I am inducing is more than I am accounting for. I've tried it out a little hitting a more solid shot and have been having much more success with the shots I listed. Thanks for the great link really opened my eyes to what was going on there. <hr /></blockquote>

Godzilla
09-21-2005, 09:32 PM
I want to thank everyone for their input. I Think I was wrong in saying that it is not my stroke. I've been focusing for a couple days now on keeping my backstroke and transition as accurate as possible and I am seeing huge gains in my accuracy. I think I tend to break down in this area easier than any other part of my game. The good news is I am dropping most of my angle cuts center pocket now other than missing some of the more extreme slices. One of these days I am going to drive down to the states for some real lessons and hopefully fix me once and for all /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif