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veager
10-07-2005, 07:37 AM
I was wondering about the APA in other parts of the country. I play in NE Ohio and there seems to be a lot of people with inaccurate handicaps. Case in point, last session my wife, who is a 3, played a 6. This guy had control of match from the opening break and won the first 3 easily. The 4th game he started missing easy shots and it seemed he was throwing the game. He ended up winning 5 to 1.

Last week at a Scotch doubles tourney. I ran into a guy I knew who was always a 5, now he’s a 4. I asked him how he dropped to a 5 and he said “ I lost 11 outa 12 matches on purpose last session” I just walked away, cause I nor anyone on my team would lose a game on purpose. I can go on and on.

I wish there was a spot on the score sheet where you can mark, “ Sandbagger”

Thanks
John

sack316
10-07-2005, 10:27 AM
Actually you really should report such things to your league operator. It's one things for someone to obviously be doing it, but it's an insult for someone to outright say that they are sandbagging.

catscradle
10-07-2005, 10:45 AM
It happens more than it should, but not as much as people think it does. The normal ups and downs of person's game can make him look like he is a sandbagger when he actually isn't.

SteveFromNY
10-07-2005, 11:56 AM
lol i was called that. I've been out of the leagues for almost a year due to back surgery and left and returned as a C2 but have recently been able to string a few racks together for some reason?? I used to be able to run from a good break up to the 7 or so and occasionally run the whole rack (maybe once or twice a night).

Deeman3
10-07-2005, 12:05 PM
veager,

I used to fume about this myself and considered snadbagging to get even. After a little thought, I just considered that these clowns are just cheating themselves as APA is not even played for money until the nationals. I mean, it's pretty sad to think about these guys trying to play badly in a non-money league. I'd occasionally run across a 4 who I knew was on the lemon but it really made me play better and kicking their butt was even more rewarding. I also think that guys who dump get into that habit and have a hard time performing when they need to.

Deeman

veager
10-07-2005, 12:07 PM
Believe me sometimes I look like a pro then can't make 3 balls in a row.

I'm talking about people that don't want to win 5 in a row and maybe get raised or people who lose so they can enter tournys at a false handicap.

breaknrun1
10-07-2005, 12:24 PM
If you think NE ohio is bad, come on down to SW ohio. Probably over 50% of the players in the league I play in are sandbaggers. One player on my team is a 5 in our region, but in a neighboring region that he plays in, he is a 3. /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

irunrax
10-07-2005, 01:53 PM
A buddy had his first night playing as a 4 and lost every match, bad. Oh ya, he was playing a 4. Anyways the next week he dropped down to a 2, and played a 5. He won 2-0, and the guy called him a sandbagger and complained to the head of the league. He did not know that this was his second week and had lost the week before. Just thought i would share that.

Barbara
10-07-2005, 02:24 PM
Ditto Deeman.

I have this love/hate relationship with the APA. The biggest gripe I have is the crappy table conditions. I can play, but not with a red circle cue ball against old chipped, worn balls and dead rails. Plus I have a male teammate that really doesn't know how they figure out the skill levels so he just keeps losing and winning to play the sl 4/5 game.

Personally, if I could be in a league that had decent equipment across all the teams, I'd practice my ass off to be the highest level I could achieve. I want them to FEAR me. Some of them already do, but they're the real 9-ball players that have no problem throwing me a safe and with me locking them up, too.

Barbara

Deeman3
10-07-2005, 03:38 PM
Barbara,

Yep, the tables are sometime pretty rough and vary a lot more than you would expect from week to week. I even like, even more than my kicking a staller's butt, is when a fine lady player does so. Of course, then the weasel says, "Yeah, I threw that one." What wimps!!!

I liked APA because you do have a chance to coach less skilled players and I think they learn form that. BCA is much better competition but a lot of opportunities are missed to pass on knowledge because of the rules. I also liked the paybacks in BCA.

I have come to enjoy the atmosphere in handicap match pool. I miss it but I have to drive an hour to find a league now.....


Deeman

Barbara
10-07-2005, 04:27 PM
Deeman,

I've become a snobby tournament player and I demand good equipment!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Okay anyway, I really just want to play and I'm listening to myself how much I complain about the crappy equipment and I think I'm just being a whiner sometimes! But not! Really, how much do you take till you break?

Barbara

UWPoolGod
10-07-2005, 05:16 PM
I have been in the APA for 5 sessions now and went up to a 7 after my first match. As far as my local region goes we have a large number of teams every day of the week from south Portland, OR up to Vancouver, WA. Of all of the players that I have seen play there were only a handful of players who were really rated less than their ability. Some players might dump on purpose or miss shots to keep their innings up and that is sad to me. Personally I get satisfaction about having matches less than 5 total innings (1 is my best) but I guess they are trying to do it for the betterment of their team.

I am not our teams captain. If you have the match in hand and are already up 3-0 or 3 to 1 and don't think you need to make 4-1 you can be smart about who you play against their last couple of players. Player management is another way to keep handicaps down. (Depends on your definition of sandbagging if you consider Player Management sandbagging) If you have a player who has improved but constantly playes 6's and 7's their winning percentage is going to remain low and based on the APA handicapping system won't go up. All our teams players try their best to win but a 6 or 7 should beat a 3 or 4 damn near every time. Now they are up for review when they get to Regionals or Nationals. Teams that feel that a player who playes above their rating should write a message on their scoresheet, make the other captain aware you are doing this, and let the APA reps watch the player and make their decision whether she goes up or not. A woman SL3 from the New York team we played in Nationals this year ran the table from my 4's break with perfect position using english and speed control and followed that game with a break, my guys miss, and a table run. Scary. My 3's can't string together 3 balls...if even two. Which is why we were out in two matches, I beat both the other teams 7's but our 4's and 3's lost to theirs (who played considerably better than mine).

I also play BCA and including liking the payback at the end of the session I like the fact that you have no squabbling over whether or not a player is rated right. You have to go play your game and beat the other player. And when you play with a team of the best local players you always strive to get better and be the main stick of the group (most table runs, breaknruns, winning % etc), especially when you put some side bets out before the session starts.

Wow guess I got off on a little rant there. Thoughts, thoughts, thoughts. Well, let me know if I am wrong in my assessments or what your thoughts are.

theinel
10-08-2005, 02:44 AM
Sandbagging, or inning stretching, is a way of life in the APA. It shouldn't really be a problem but very few people know how to keep score correctly and "defensive shots" (i.e. safeties or intentional misses) aren't marked.

As someone has already mentioned, and the APA handbook states, you should mark clearly on your score sheets any match or player that you think was sandbagging. Ultimately the local league operator will be the one handling things so your mileage might vary.