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eat_sleep_pool
10-08-2005, 03:16 PM
hey
You know when ppl shot masse shots like the whole table length and then the spin starts, i dont understand, lol i can do it but it will go like 5in then come back, or what ever i do with it. anyways someone explain plz
thanks

Bob_Jewett
10-08-2005, 03:31 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eat_sleep_pool:</font><hr> hey
You know when ppl shot masse shots like the whole table length and then the spin starts, i dont understand, lol i can do it but it will go like 5in then come back, or what ever i do with it. anyways someone explain plz
thanks <hr /></blockquote>
You have to hit the ball much, much harder. It also helps to wax the cue ball so the spin doesn't take so quickly. The most important thing, though, is to shoot the shots with someone elses cue stick on someone elses table when that someone else is not around.

joewihit
10-09-2005, 03:29 PM
Masse shots are dependant numerous environmental factors as well as mechanical factors. Environmental factors such type of cloths, age of cloth, table size, clean/dirry balls, humidiyt, etc.
Mechanical factors such as power of stroke, direction of aim, cue tip placement, angle of stick (45 degrees vs 90 degrees). Lots of practice and even more patients.

I hope it helps.
Sincerely,
joewihit

caedos
10-09-2005, 05:11 PM
Dr.Dave has a good description here: http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/bd_articles/nov05.pdf#search='coriolis%20masse%20diagram'

or you can search for "coriolis", "masse",and "diagram" and see what you get.

Fun stuff.


Carl

eat_sleep_pool
10-09-2005, 08:01 PM
Ya about the hitting it harder part, i hit it sometimes as hard as i can and it doesnt work. its soo frustrating and i can only practice when no ones home (loud) and thats not very often. But my poor table is hurting lol, holes everywhere, oh well ill get a new cloth.

Jal
10-09-2005, 08:17 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eat_sleep_pool:</font><hr>... But my poor table is hurting lol, holes everywhere, oh well ill get a new cloth. <hr /></blockquote>I guess Bob Jewett's advice arrived a little late. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif You might want to save some of the old cloth to put underneath the cueball if you intend on 'forging' ahead with your masse practice.

Jim

Bob_Jewett
10-10-2005, 09:39 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eat_sleep_pool:</font><hr> Ya about the hitting it harder part, i hit it sometimes as hard as i can and it doesnt work. ... <hr /></blockquote>
You need to get instruction. Find someone who knows masse -- not all instructors do.

In the mean time, you might want to check out three articles that appeared in Billiards Digest about masse.

http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/BD_articles.html

See the last article in 1997 and the first two in 1998.

longbough
10-24-2005, 11:39 AM
Masse is produced when the spin of the ball is high in relation to it's translational speed of travel.

By elevating the butt of the cue you're actually driving the cue ball into the cloth in order to kill as much speed as possible while maximizing the spin. The higher the elevation the more dramatic your spin:speed ratio will be.

If you're executing a long masse the butt of your cue is going to be elevated to, say, 50-60 degrees. Initially the ball will be travelling faster so the curve is going to be less (i.e. lower spin:speed ratio by virtue of a high translational speed). Frequently, there's also a bit of a shallow "bounce" imparted which keeps the cue from grabbing the cloth for a proper "curve." Inevitably (presuming that sufficient english is imparted with the stroke) the translational speed will slow and the spin:speed ratio will be greater allowing it to curve.

There are other ways to produce masse using other balls to kill the speed. If you drive an object ball into a pocket hitting the cue ball with a high force follow +/- some english you can cause the cue ball to bounce into the rail several times. This is the basis for some nice trick shots. And there are other ways to carom the cue ball to kill it's speed so its spin pulls it into a dramatic curve as well.

That's just the way I've understood it.

dr_dave
10-24-2005, 12:29 PM
Excellent description. FYI to others, my November '05 instructional article (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/bd_articles/nov05.pdf) has some illustrations showing how to aim masse shots. Speed effects are also shown.

Regards,
Dave

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote longbough:</font><hr> Masse is produced when the spin of the ball is high in relation to it's translational speed of travel.

By elevating the butt of the cue you're actually driving the cue ball into the cloth in order to kill as much speed as possible while maximizing the spin. The higher the elevation the more dramatic your spin:speed ratio will be.

If you're executing a long masse the butt of your cue is going to be elevated to, say, 50-60 degrees. Initially the ball will be travelling faster so the curve is going to be less (i.e. lower spin:speed ratio by virtue of a high translational speed). Frequently, there's also a bit of a shallow "bounce" imparted which keeps the cue from grabbing the cloth for a proper "curve." Inevitably (presuming that sufficient english is imparted with the stroke) the translational speed will slow and the spin:speed ratio will be greater allowing it to curve.

There are other ways to produce masse using other balls to kill the speed. If you drive an object ball into a pocket hitting the cue ball with a high force follow +/- some english you can cause the cue ball to bounce into the rail several times. This is the basis for some nice trick shots. And there are other ways to carom the cue ball to kill it's speed so its spin pulls it into a dramatic curve as well.

That's just the way I've understood it. <hr /></blockquote>

wolfdancer
10-24-2005, 12:45 PM
It also helps to have a masse cue.....but i have seen some great masse shots done by Raphael Martinez, not even with his own cue.
Robert Bryne also had a method to aim a masse shot in his book.
AND, while you note that Masse shots can be abusive to the cloth, if your technique is not good.....i think even with a good stroke/technique....the pressure on the cloth,also produces some "damage"
No masse's allowed on my home table, even if your name is
Mike Masse(y)

dr_dave
10-24-2005, 12:50 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr>Robert Bryne also had a method to aim a masse shot in his book.<hr /></blockquote>The method Byrne shows in his Advanced Techniques book is the same as the method I present in my article. It was developed by Coriolis in the early 1800's. See my July-December '05 instructional articles (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/bd_articles/index.html) for more info on Coriolis and his work.

Regards,
Dave