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View Full Version : Miscues Really A Foul In Fact?



Sid_Vicious
10-14-2005, 08:47 AM
It has been bugging me that there seems to be a possible general consensus, backed up via slo-mo film, that miscues are in fact ferrule hit fouls, and if this is true, why hasn't miscues been considered by the rule makers as automatic fouls? A miscue is about as ugly-a result from a performer on the table, and yet this event is many times rewarded instead of penalized. Just doesn't seem right IMO. Wouldn't it clean up the game to it's gracefull nature, which true billiards IS? I think so, and in the case of a miscue, it would be such an easy rule to decide upon on the spot of disagreement....sid

Bob_Jewett
10-14-2005, 10:04 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> It has been bugging me that there seems to be a possible general consensus, backed up via slo-mo film, that miscues are in fact ferrule hit fouls, and if this is true, why hasn't miscues been considered by the rule makers as automatic fouls? A miscue is about as ugly-a result from a performer on the table, and yet this event is many times rewarded instead of penalized. Just doesn't seem right IMO. Wouldn't it clean up the game to it's gracefull nature, which true billiards IS? I think so, and in the case of a miscue, it would be such an easy rule to decide upon on the spot of disagreement....sid <hr /></blockquote>
On many miscues, the ferrule touches the cue ball. On some, it does not. The current practice is to consider accidental miscues a normal part of the game and not fouls.

Barbara
10-14-2005, 10:08 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> On many miscues, the ferrule touches the cue ball. On some, it does not. The current practice is to consider accidental miscues a normal part of the game and not fouls. <hr /></blockquote>

Bob,

Could you explain the situation where the CB doesn't touch the ferrule but it's a miscue?

Barbara

Scott Lee
10-14-2005, 10:22 AM
Barbara...One common example would be an illegal jump shot.
The CB is "scooped" underneath, with the tip hitting the table surface first, but the CB doesn't touch the ferrule.

Scott

Bob_Jewett
10-14-2005, 10:24 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> On many miscues, the ferrule touches the cue ball. On some, it does not. The current practice is to consider accidental miscues a normal part of the game and not fouls. <hr /></blockquote>

Bob,

Could you explain the situation where the CB doesn't touch the ferrule but it's a miscue?

Barbara
<hr /></blockquote>
Sometimes the tip just slides off the ball and the ferrule does not slap back into it. Or at least that's what was observed on some of the miscues on the Jacksonville tape. Beyond that, there are full-blooded miscues and minor miscues. On the latter, you will often get good spin, but not as good as you were hoping for. You can tell if it was a miscue by looking at the contact patch on the tip. I don't think the minor miscues have ball-ferrule contact, but they are hard to reproduce.

Sid_Vicious
10-14-2005, 10:24 AM
Since the scoop is already illegal, can you tell us a #2 example???sid

Tom_In_Cincy
10-14-2005, 01:24 PM
My experiences with miscue had me playing with soft (Elk) tips for the longest time. My thoughts were that the LePro was hard and I never played with them until I purchased a Meucci in the early 80s. I found that I could play with a hard tip and not miscue.

A friend mentioned using the 'French Champion' tips and also 'Triangles'. At the time, these tips felt as hard as Diamonds... but I also found out that I was so afraid of miscuing, I focused on stroke, contact and followthru that really helped improve my game.

I've seen subtle miscues (by me) on straight in shots, where I've swiped (accidentally miscued) across the cue ball and caused the OB to spin off into another direction than I had intended. I would say to myself... 'I've miscued again, I shouldn't have got so straight on that ball'

Another miscue where ferrule contact maynot happen;
Miscues on draw shots...the subtle little jump instead of draw... no ferrule hit.

ArNz
10-14-2005, 07:42 PM
IMO hitting the ferrule or not its still a miscue. miscue = double hit. double hit = foul.

Fran Crimi
10-14-2005, 08:21 PM
Also, miscues aren't always the fault of the shooter. Damp chalk can also be the culprit. I remember a WPBA event years ago where the chalk we used was sitting in the back of someone's trunk for two days of pouring rain just prior to the event. Players were miscuing all over the place that first day before anyone figured it out. Imagine if they were all charged with fouls.

I've experienced damp chalk all over the country, maybe except for Nevada and Arizona. It's even hard to keep your own chalk dry sometimes when the weather is exceptionally humid.

Fran

Colin
10-15-2005, 01:36 AM
Here are some high speed videos showing miscues that double hit and others that don't.
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/high_speed_videos/new/HSVA-13.htm

Watch this one and the several that follow.

dr_dave
10-18-2005, 07:45 AM
FYI to all, other clips are mentioned and described in a previous thread (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Board=ccb&amp;Number=172136&amp;Foru m=ccb&amp;Words=dr_dave&amp;Match=Username&amp;Searchpage=0&amp;Li mit=25&amp;Old=allposts&amp;Main=167746&amp;Search=true#Post17 2136). Check it out.

Dave

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Colin:</font><hr> Here are some high speed videos showing miscues that double hit and others that don't.
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/high_speed_videos/new/HSVA-13.htm

Watch this one and the several that follow. <hr /></blockquote>