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View Full Version : The Orlando IPT tournament will be an eyeopener...



Ross
10-31-2005, 01:35 PM
...for K. Trudeau, IMO. Siegal has filled his head with his wishful but delusional ideas that the current top 9-ball players are there because of fast cloth, big pockets, side breaks, etc. instead of the real reasons - their incredible ball pocketing and cue ball control skills.

As much as I think it is a wonderful thing to have invited legends like Butera, Ewa, Grady, etc. and as much as I respect them as players, I think at the end of the tourney the only players left will be the current top 9-ball players today - Archer, Bustamante, Efren, Souquet, Morris, Jeremy, Niels etc. They must be licking their chops thinking about playing straight up for money against most of this field.

I know it is 8-ball and different cloth, etc., but I think that the top pros will be able to adust very quickly. It isn't like they don't play under all kinds of table conditions when gambling. If it were straight pool I would agree that knowledge of the game would be a big factor, but professional 8-ball is a run-out game. And the top 9-ballers are run out artists.

To me the most interesting part of this tournament is how Allison does vs. the men. She's never been tested in a men tournament with the top men as far as I know. Also she has improved her game from even a couple of years ago, thanks to the pressure from Karen. I think it will be mental with her since her current skills and form put her in the top half of this field, IMO. I also will be curious how some mainly money players like Schmidt perform, now that there is more money in the tourney than in the side games.

My final curiousity will be whether Siegal wins more than 3 games in each set if the finals are races to 9.

Here are my assessments of the players based on their current form:

Very top pros:
Archer, Johnny
Bustamante, Francisco
Deuel, Corey
Jones, Jeremy
Owen, Gabe
Reyes, Efren
Souquet, Ralf

2nd Tier:
Feijen, Niels
Hohmann, Thorsten
Immonen, Mika
Manalo, Marlon
Morris, Rodney
Parica, Jose
Rempe, Jim
Strickland, Earl
Van den Berg, Nick
Williams, Charlie

3rd Tier:
Hall, Buddy
McCready, Keith
Putnam, Shawn
Robles, Tony
San Souci, George
Schmidt, John
Sigel, Mike
Davenport, Kim
Fisher, Allison

4th Tier:
Hopkins, Allen
Martin, Ray
Mathews, Grady
Varner, Nick
Corr, Karen

5th Tier:
Massey, Mike
Thornfeldt, Helena
Butera, Lou
West, Dallas

6th Tier:
Hofstatter, Gerda
Dodson, Robin
Incardona, William
Jones, Loree Jon
Laurance, Ewa

? Tier:
Hundal, Raj
Kelly, Ed
O'Sullivan, Ronnie

nAz
10-31-2005, 02:26 PM
Hi Ross nice to see you posting, i always enjoy reading your threads.

I had no Idea that Allison and Gerda were playing in the FLA. tourney. it will make for some pretty interesting viewing.

BTW I agree with you the top players in the world today should dominate the top 7 finishes at the IPT.

Does anyone know what size pockets the will play with, is it the same size that is currently being used at pro 9Ball events?

Keith Talent
10-31-2005, 03:33 PM
Ross, I'm sure there'll be some surprises for all of us. But you've gotta like Sigel's chances better than anyone else's, at least until the finals. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

If only Jean were playing! The word was that she didn't think (with good reason) that the money was worth the grind these days. And you know of course when people say, "It isn't the money," It's the money.
But when they say, It IS the money? Maybe it's NOT the money?

So, was Sigel's appearance in that master's event last winter an audition for all this? Looks like he passed ... dominated the dinosaurs, right?

And the btw, surprised to see you put Hohmann down a notch ...

BigT
10-31-2005, 06:47 PM
Ross,
You must have blinders on Hohmann, Thorsten is one of the best players in the world any game! I think Mike will do well. Corey Deul may have the best stroke in the game. The slow cloth will help Corey.

Rich R.
10-31-2005, 07:19 PM
Hi Ross. It is good to see you posting.
We missed you at the Open.

I have a little different take on this, than you.
I look for the good straight pool players to finish well in this event.
I'm looking for Souquet, Hohmann, Schmidt and a few others to finish very well in this event. I also wouldn't be surprised if one or two of the HOF guys, like Rempe and Butera, were to sneak into the top 10.

Saddly, I don't expect any of the women to do too well, mainly because they usually concentrate on 9-ball and rarely play other games.

SPetty
10-31-2005, 07:57 PM
Hi Ross,

Nice post. Miss you.

I didn't do a side-by-side comparison, but it looks like the round robin groups might have been put together similarly to your analysis. Have you seen them?
They don't look "random" to me:

http://www.internationalpooltour.com/ipt_content/event_schedule/05koh_home.asp#grouping

I like seeing Allison in the same group as Ronnie O'Sullivan.

And nAz, check out the player's list - it's a top notch list:
http://www.internationalpooltour.com/ipt_content/ipt_players/2005_kind_of_hill.asp

Ross, do you have any plans on attending the IPT King Of The Hill tourney in Orlando?

catscradle
11-01-2005, 05:34 AM
Excellent analysis. Age doesn't make as much a difference in pool as other sports, but it does make a difference especially at this level where the difference that separates a win from a loss is so small. Nevertheless, it is good to see guys like Grady, Hopkins, etc. get some respect and it might add to the marketablility of the event. Kevin Trudeau in any event can afford to take the chance and see what happens.
As you said pro 8-ball is a runout game and that's what it will be all about.

onepocketchump
11-01-2005, 06:42 AM
My only response is that Sigel broke and ran four racks in the last set against Jones. When he got his gear going there was no looking back. Mike Sigel has always been known as one of the best ball pocketers in the world and his form looks nearly as good as ever.

Efren and Parica are the same age and Mike used to dominate them in tournaments.

So, I'll take action with anybody that Mike definitely gets "more than 3 games" in the finals.

John

Qtec
11-01-2005, 09:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote catscradle:</font><hr> Excellent analysis. <font color="blue"> Agreed but he is wrong! /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif I,m willing to bet all my Vcash [ why havent we got any Vcash Mike?] that no woman player gets past the first round. Allison might have a chance but it depends on what Ronnie does.
</font color> Age doesn't make as much a difference in pool as other sports, but it does make a difference especially at this level where the difference that separates a win from a loss is so small. <font color="blue">I agree. IMO its purely the fact that its more difficult to concentrate for long periods of time , the older you get. </font color> Nevertheless, it is good to see guys like Grady, Hopkins, etc. get some respect <font color="blue"> They have always had respect. </font color> and it might add to the marketablility of the event. <font color="blue"> I dont see why. Todays players are almost total unknowns- why should the puplic even know that A. Hopkins, Grady or Segal are ex champions?. </font color> Kevin Trudeau in any event can afford to take the chance and see what happens.
As you said pro 8-ball is a runout game and that's what it will be all about. <font color="blue"> Exactly. </font color>
<hr /></blockquote>

Qtec

SPetty
11-01-2005, 10:03 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>I'm willing to bet ... that no woman player gets past the first round.<hr /></blockquote>When you say this, do you realize that the top three players in each group of six advance to the second round? That is, fully half of those players in the first round advance?

Fran Crimi
11-01-2005, 10:40 AM
I wouldn't be too quick to play down the effect of the slow cloth. Most of these players coming into this event will not have any idea what they're up against playing on a NEW slow cloth. The older players, on the other hand, are all too familiar with the constant array of changing conditions that a new slow cloth undergoes during the first few days of a tournament.

Tournament pool has become a much easier game with new fast cloths because the cloth doesn't go through as many dramatic changes during those first few days as a slow cloth would.

Here's an idea of what the players will be facing---and this holds true for good quality slow cloths as well:

Day 1) The cloth appears to be playing fast, but it's deceiving because what's happening is the balls are sliding like crazy, much more than day one of a new fast cloth. Running and reverse sidespin will have little or no effect off of rails. The players aren't really sure when the cb will change into normal roll and come to a stop.

Day 2) The balls begin to grab a bit more, so the way you adjusted the day before has no bearing on today. You have to start all over again. However, the cloth is spotty. There are spots that grab and spots that slide. It will become pilly where it will have to be brushed often as little balls of nap will start laying on top of the cloth. You may be able to get the cb to spin off of one rail, but not another rail. The cb will slide-spin-slide-spin on any given shot. The players will face a lot of 'funny rolls' when this happens.

Day 3) The cloth starts to slow down dramatically. Everything you adjusted for on days 1 and 2 now go out the window. Now you're getting more spin than you really want and you are finding that the speed control you adjusted to on the first two days is completely changed. The players will have to muscle some shots just to accomplish what they did with much less force only two days before.

TV Matches) Nappy cloth really gets affected in a big way by the hot lights of a tv match. The heat and static electricity generated by the lights makes the fibers of the cloth stand up and the table plays the slowest of all.

Fran

cheesemouse
11-01-2005, 10:43 AM
Ross,
Thanks for doing my thinking for me, I'm to busy to try and keep up on the board anymore so thanks again for doing my thinking for me. I will be watching this new tour with great interest. I give A Fisher a higher rating, I think she will be very comfortable playing high test 8ball...

Qtec
11-01-2005, 11:52 AM
I certainly do.

Qtec

Nostroke
11-01-2005, 04:14 PM
Hey Ross

You make some good points but i cant belive your last group.

Raj Hundal belongs in group 3 at least and Ronnie O'Sullivan, well he is hard to judge but I would never put him in the last group-Sure he hasnt played pool professionally but im sure he has been practicing and this video tells me he can handle a cue like few others. I wouldnt be surprised to see him in the late stages.

Anyone else who hasnt seen this tape-check it out. It's at the very least-especially considering that a top pro recently took 5 minutes plus on one fairly easy nine ball.

http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/normal_videos/new/NVA-19.htm

cuechick
11-01-2005, 06:35 PM
As I understand it or was told, Mike Siegle is seeded all the way to the finals, so he is guaranteed at least 2nd, no?

I also think both Karen and Allison will surprise a lot of people...that will be the most interesting part of this thing, imo...

RailbirdJAM
11-02-2005, 05:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> I wouldn't be too quick to play down the effect of the slow cloth. Most of these players coming into this event will not have any idea what they're up against playing on a NEW slow cloth....<hr /></blockquote>

Fran, I enjoyed reading your post and the way you detailed the cloth playability during competition. I have seen topnotch players stumble from time to time not because they are playing poorly, but because they are unable to adjust to the equipment, whether it be the type of table used, pocket size, cloth, balls, rubber rail density, et cetera.

At a regional tournament in Connecticut a few years back, the cloth was fast as lightning, blue in color. It was newly installed, and though it wasn't Simonis, the cloth presented a few problems for some players during this event. Players were complaining about ball position throughout the tournament, but it was the "seasoned" players at this event who rose to the top.

BTW, I've got a collection of pool periodicals from yesteryear, maybe early '80s, and when I saw your name on this forum, I recognized it from a feature article in one of these mags. I cannot remember which one it was at this time, but it was a great read. If I run across it again, I'll post the info. You'll probably enjoy seeing the picture of yourself, getting ready to fire the trigger, with you brandishing a game face. Your hair was light blond, tied back in a cute ponytail.

I am interested to see how the players perform at the upcoming IPT King of the Hill Shootout. At this time, I do not know which cloth will be used, but whatever it may be, the players who are able to adjust their game quickly will be the ones who advance. From what I hear, when it comes to slow cloth, it's all about the stroke.

This is going to be an interesting competition because it pits the younger players against veterans, Hall of Famers and young guns, the ladies versus the gents, et cetera.

Time will tell who will be the King of the Hill in early December, but Fran Crimi's post is right on cue [pun intended]. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

RailbirdJAM

Ross
11-02-2005, 07:00 AM
Thanks, nAz. I enjoy your threads as well - especially the NPR ones.

I am a one-obsession-at-a-time kind of guy. I was obsessed with pool for maybe 10 years. Then last January I made the mistake of trying out an online poker game. Bam! New obsession! I got hooked pretty quickly.

So most of the hours I spent playing pool or reading and posting to CCB have been sucked up by this new quest. But I recently started playing league a couple nights a week. And check out CCB occasionally...

Fran Crimi
11-02-2005, 07:29 AM
Hi JAM, and thanks for your post and the memories. I do remember the ponytail days. LOL

I'm looking forward to the events too. Can't wait to see how it plays out.

Tell Keith I said hi and that you're the best thing that could've happened to him (...not as if he doesn't already know). /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Fran

Ross
11-02-2005, 07:30 AM
Yeah, Siegel is sitting pretty! What a deal he got for himself - he beats Loree Jon Jones and wins 150k and that win alone gives him a guaranteed 100k payout in the next tournament! He must thank his lucky stars for the day he became buds with KT.

As far as me ranking Hohmann where I did - well first of all, this "2nd tier" is a pretty damn strong group. Parica, Immonen, Morris, Feijen and the others aren't slouches by any means! My impressiong is that, on average, Hohmann plays better in Europe than he does in the US. In any case, Hohmann has placed lower than my top tier folks in most if not all of the US tourneys this year. I checked on AZ billiards and he has a 55th in the Derby City 9-ball , a 9th in the North American Tour Stop , a 13th in the UPA Pro Players Tour Championship, and a 65-98th in the US Open. (In comparison in these 3 tourneys-- DCC: Reyes 1st, Immonen 3rd, Bustamante 6th; NA Tour Stop: C. Williams 2nd, Archer 5th, and Deuel 7th; UPA Championship: Jones, Williams, Owen, and Archer all finishing higher than Hohmann; and US Open: Bustamante, Parica, Feijen, Strickland, Williams, Archer, and Jones all in top 16.)

In fact after looking at these results, I think Immonen, Parica, Williams, and Strickland are the players that I may have underrated!

Ross
11-02-2005, 07:32 AM
BigT - see my reply to KeithT re: Hohmann above.

9 Ball Girl
11-02-2005, 07:42 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr> Yeah, Siegel is sitting pretty! What a deal he got for himself - he beats Robin Dodson and wins 150k and that win alone gives him a guaranteed 100k payout in the next tournament!<hr /></blockquote>Um, I think you mean he beat Loree John Jones. &lt;snickering&gt; Missed ya at the Open and hope to see you in VF!

Ross
11-02-2005, 07:58 AM
Hey Rich - how's it going, buddy?
Yeah, I missed seeing you guys as well at the Open. Took a step back from pool for awhile. Also, I'm not sure I was ready to face up to the missing faces from previous years. That was all too sad - but I'm really glad you guys did the tourney in honor of CC, Frank, and Dave.

Maybe next year!

I agree with you on one player - Rempe may surprise, since I think he was an 8-ball specialist. And of course Souquet can win any tournament he enters. I imagine 8-ball will be a completely new experience for Schmidt, but with his shotmaking and cueball control he has the potential to run a lot of racks.

I also just saw how the setup protects the HOF'ers, so that will help their chances as well.

However, I think 8 ball is more similar to 9 ball than straight pool. On the surface 8 and straight are more similar - in both you don't have to worry about numerical order, have to move the cue ball around in small spaces on a crowded table, and need to make fewer long shots. But I think the reality is that for players with the skill of Efren, Busatmante, Archer, etc, running out at 8 ball is not going to be that hard (unlike stringing together 100's at straight pool). I may be wrong, but I recall seeing an 8-ball tourney a few years ago with the top pros and that was the case then. Maybe the cloth and tables will mess them up but I'm guessing some of them are already setting up similar table conditions to practice on. The money is too great for them to not do some advance preparation.

I saw Allison's draw - wow, what a way to enter into the fray with the men! I don't think she will have much of a chance against Bustamante, maybe a 30% chance vs. Feijen. She'll probably beat Hopkins though. O'Sullivan is obviously a massive talent but pool is a new game for him, so who knows how well he will do? I think 8 ball will be an easier transition from snooker than going straight to 9ball would be though, so he may clean up. I haven't seen Hundal play, but based on his US Open performance, I think he should also be a favorite over Allison.

It will be interesting to see.

Ross
11-02-2005, 08:17 AM
Hey Spetty-girl! I missed seeing you at the Open as well. And congrats on having the top rated home pool room in the nation! Hope I can make it there some time.

I hadn't seen the groupings until you posted the links. You are right - they are clearly seeded. But after seeing them, it looks to me like Kevin T does have a clue after all about my original point. He realizes (has been advised rather) that the pool legends will need a lot of help to compete with the current crop of top 9-ball players. He is cleveraly protecting the HOF'ers by giving them their own "kiddie tables" to play out of. (That sounded pretty bad didn't it? But compare the groupings and see who Rempe has to beat to move on versus who Strickland has to beat, and the description fits.) Of course Efren doesn't belong in the "formerly great" player list.

This may turn out to be a good marketing move. Everyone would love to see some of the "old masters" kick some young superstar booty, and by manipulating the tournament enough, with a little luck one of the non-Efren HOF'ers might advance far enough to get some of that drama going on.

I hadn't thought about going to the Orlando event, but you planted the thought in my head. I think it will be a lot more interesting than seeing the usual suspects slugging it out yet again against each other. I'll think about coming...

Anyway, good to hear from you!

Ross
11-02-2005, 08:23 AM
Hey John, you may be right about Mike. But we won't know since he is being slotted into the finals based on beating Loree Jon Jones. My impression of Mike in recent years is that he is unwilling to risk his reputation by playing on a level playing field against Efren and the like. And I can only surmise that is because he knows they play better than him. The level of play of the top pros is better than it was in the 90's, IMO. But that is just my opinion, so who knows?

Ross
11-02-2005, 08:29 AM
Hey Nostroke - my "last" group wasn't a bottom group - it was my unknown group. That's why I marked it with a question mark. Those are the players I've never seen play pool.

And I agree that O'Sullivan could fall anywhere from the middle of the pack to the top. He is apparently quite a talented "cueist" --as they say!

Ross
11-02-2005, 08:34 AM
Hey Wendy! Missed seeing you as well. And yes, I had a brain fart writing Robin when I meant Loree. Corrected now though.

Sounds like once again you (and Rich, Kathy, and others) got the CCB Open Tournament to be another rousing success!. Nice job, as always.

Ross
11-02-2005, 08:44 AM
Your welcome, Cheese. I hope you are right and Allison kicks butt. But that is a lot to ask - first major tourney with the men and she gets put in not with the average pro men, but with Busta and Neils (both top 12 US Open finishers two years in a row). This guy Hundal has got to be a great player as well since he went so far in the Open. That leaves O'Sullivan - the best snooker player in the world, and Hopkins. At least she should be a favorite over Hopkins.

I know she has a lot of pride though, and she won't settle for less than a good showing, so I'm guessing she is working on her 8-ball game as we speak (well, write).

Ross
11-02-2005, 08:49 AM
You might be right, Fran. You certainly know a lot more about the table conditions than I do.

I think the Philipinos might have the advantage here. It is my understanding that they learned their games playing on incredibly slow, wet, tables in rooms that were open to the weather (no AC) and hence varying humidity. So they have a lot of experience at adjusting their game to a wide variety of playing conditions.

Fran Crimi
11-02-2005, 09:02 AM
Well, there's still a lot of other factors to consider, like stamina and pressure. There's a lot more money on the line now. Still hard to tell who will rule. But I was thinking the same as you about the Filippino players, Ross. I think they may have the all-around edge here...that is, IF they play.

Fran

SPetty
11-02-2005, 09:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr> And congrats on having the top rated home pool room in the nation! Hope I can make it there some time.<hr /></blockquote>Thanks, Ross! I, too, hope you can make it to visit some time. But I'm not gonna cut you any slack just because you don't play any more! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr>He is cleverly protecting the HOF'ers by giving them their own "kiddie tables" to play out of.<hr /></blockquote>The HOFers "kiddie tables" will have two new additions before their round robin play begins...

"The event is a Round Robin tournament which means each player [in the first five groups] will play all the other players in his or her respective group. The top three players in each [of the first five] group advance to the second round of three groups of five players each. The top two players from each of those groups populate the two open places in each Hall of Fame group." <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr>This may turn out to be a good marketing move. Everyone would love to see some of the "old masters" kick some young superstar booty, and by manipulating the tournament enough, with a little luck one of the non-Efren HOF'ers might advance far enough to get some of that drama going on.<hr /></blockquote>Yep - it's a master marketing move. It got me so excited about seeing all those players in one place at one time that I changed all my plans for the rest of the year in order to make it there. <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr>I hadn't thought about going to the Orlando event, but you planted the thought in my head. I think it will be a lot more interesting than seeing the usual suspects slugging it out yet again against each other. I'll think about coming...<hr /></blockquote>Yep, it'll be well worth it. Tickets are still available, but won't be available at the door. http://www.internationalpooltour.com

Cornerman
11-02-2005, 09:25 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Allison might have a chance but it depends on what Ronnie does. <hr /></blockquote> Looks like Ronnie isn't coming. That sucks, as he is one of the main reasons why I'm going to Orlando to watch.

Fred

Rich R.
11-02-2005, 09:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr> I imagine 8-ball will be a completely new experience for Schmidt, but with his shotmaking and cueball control he has the potential to run a lot of racks.<hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">They say Schmidt has run over 400, in straight pool. I don't know how new 8-ball will be to Schmidt. Since I believe 8-ball to be similar to straight pool, I have to believe he will do well. </font color>

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr>However, I think 8 ball is more similar to 9 ball than straight pool. On the surface 8 and straight are more similar - in both you don't have to worry about numerical order, have to move the cue ball around in small spaces on a crowded table, and need to make fewer long shots. <hr /></blockquote>
<font color="blue">These are definitely the reasons I think 8-ball and straight pool are similar.
Don't get me wrong. I don't believe any of the local league players are going to jump up and beat the players who primarily play 9-ball. I just think the good straight pool players will have a very slight edge. JMHO.

Of course, I have never been right before, so why should I ruin my image now. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif</font color>

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr>I saw Allison's draw - wow, what a way to enter into the fray with the men! <hr /></blockquote>
<font color="blue"> For as long as I have been on the internet, people on the forums have wanted to see how Allison would do against the top men. The IPT is giving her a babtism of fire, in that regard.

AS you said, it will be interesting. I wish I could be there. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif </font color>

Cornerman
11-02-2005, 09:33 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr> I also just saw how the setup protects the HOF'ers, so that will help their chances as well. <hr /></blockquote>The funny thing is, guys like Rempe and Varner are two of the all-time greatest 8-ball players that ever played the game. And from what I've heard, Varner is practicing like a madman. I think Buddy also was an 8-ball World Champion, and of course, Efren is the greatest 8-ball player. They don't need protection. The other players need protection.

And then there's Sigel, the greatest player ever, IMO. A guy who went down hill out of shear boredom and disgust at a game that didn't make him a household name though he dominated it. If he's serious about a comeback, he's the man. I hope. Ego aside, I don't want this to be some kind of swan song. I'd like today's players to witness how great this man was/is.

Fred

Qtec
11-02-2005, 11:05 AM
That is a bummer, I agree. I was looking forward to see how he gets on against the top pool pros. Imagine Ronnie v,s Mike in the final! Even I would pay to see that. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
It does improve Allisons chances in the group but I think the women will find it tough going. Its probably along time ago that they played in a tourny when they can lose to everyone in the field. It might be a shock for them.
I think the first round will be the toughest.

Watch out for Alex Lely in the next tourny. The guy is an 8ball specialist and he is lethal.

Qtec

Tom_In_Cincy
11-02-2005, 11:14 AM
I think everyones got a decent chance, including the women.
Picking a favorte(s) is more of a popularity contest IMO.

Buddy Hall hasn't been mentioned as a favorite and even though Mike Sigel is seeded number 2, he has a better chance than a lot of players just because of the seed.

Rempe and Reyes are also seeded high and are a threat.

43 of the world's best players and there must be at least a dozen picks for 1st that are legitimate.

Can't wait... Happy Times for the pool world is HERE...

on a sad note.
Earl, Jose and Grady and possibly Keith, should have already been in the Hall of Fame, placing them in a seeded position.

supergreenman
11-02-2005, 11:43 AM
with regards to women (ewa)having to play against the men I think it's about time, Women have to play against us in the amateur leagues, why all of a sudden do they get thier own league when they turn pro. go hard or go home I say.

Ross
11-02-2005, 12:07 PM
Spetty, I didn't realize that was the format. I had checked the IPT rules link and it was always "coming soon." But now I see the format is listed under the IPT News section.

I will give KT credit for this: it is nice to see that he will be giving the HOF'ers more money for just showing up (30k) than many of them probably ever received for winning a tournament!

Forgetting money for a moment, the setup may be a very mixed blessing for the HOF's. They are getting a bye to the third round, but that third round is going to be especially tough since only the top two finishers move on. And that will mean beating out the 2 new additions to their group, who theoretically will be the "best" regular players who were able to survive Rounds 1 and 2.

I also think that an unintentional effect of the bye may be to put the HOF's at a big disadvantage when they finally do play. Think about this: the newcomers to their groups will have already played 10 races-to-8. That is a lot of games to to get used to the table conditions and to get their stroke e tuned in, etc. I don't think they will be that worn out either since, unlike the US Open, each round begins on a new day. Plus it sounds like KT will be giving all of the players the royal treatment, giving them a few more creature comforts than is usual for a tournament.

So it sounds like easy money for the Hall of Famers, but a difficult task to advance for the HOF'ers. I would expect only Efren to survive these odds. (Now if some of the HOF's unconsciously played a little softer against other HOF's... hmmmm...)

And poor Robin Dodson. Her group is going to be Efren, Buddy Hall (in his home state), Ray Martin (in his home state), and likely 2 players of the caliber of Bustamante, or Strickland, or Jeremy Jones! Oh well, I guess 30k can cover the embarrassment of getting shellacked. (Oh, please prove me wrong Robin!)

And Spetty, I do still play pool two nights a week - I just don't practice any more. That probably is helping my game! :-)

Ross
11-02-2005, 12:32 PM
Cornerman - Nick and Buddy weren't just 8-ball champs, they were 9-ball champions as well -- in the 80's and the 90's. However they are seldom in the top group of finishers in any of the big tournaments today.

The jury is out on Mike. I know he was a GREAT player when he was at the top of the game. But he hasn't put his hat in the ring in a long time. Players have improved and I doubt he has since he doesn't have the benefit that year-round competition gives you. And it's easy to say "I could beat these guys if I really wanted to." I don't give a lot of credit for that.

That isn't a knock on any of these gusy- it's true in every sport that each generation learns from the past ones and then do their job of improving on that. Today's top golfers are better players than yesteryear's top golfers. On an absolute scale of ability to make a golf ball do what you want it to, Tiger is better than Nicklaus ever was. Same is true in football, baseball, soccer. (Well, maybe not baseball because the current generation will have to play with much less help from chemical enhancements.)

And the next generation of pool players will be better than the current crop when they become HOF'ers. Look at the 16 year old (!) who won the World Championship, beating out many of the best pool players in the world.

Efren is the only one who doesn't know how to yield to the coming generation. He is winning at least as many tournaments as he was 10 years ago.

BCgirl
11-02-2005, 01:17 PM
I think I'll frame your comments on the cloth, Fran. Being somewhat analytical about the game, I often find myself explaining to friends who insist on playing in non-air-conditioned rooms that the reason they're having trouble that day is that they're not adjusting their game for the cloth, and that just because cloth seems to run fast doesn't mean it plays and catches spin like Simonis 860. I get that "oh, yes, lame effort to make me feel better" look.

As for the IPT tourney, it's a pity that O'Sullivan apparently won't be there. RoS vs Allison would be an interesting match. On snooker pedigree, it should be Ronnie by a mile, but who knows?


BCgirl

Cornerman
11-02-2005, 02:04 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr> Cornerman - Nick and Buddy weren't just 8-ball champs, they were 9-ball champions as well -- in the 80's and the 90's. However they are seldom in the top group of finishers in any of the big tournaments today. <hr /></blockquote> Good point. I am hoping that the money will revitalize their greatness. Sigel left because of boredome. Both Buddy and Nick have had health issues. I think Nick is on the comeback. Buddy has to hit the treadmill.

[ QUOTE ]
Efren is the only one who doesn't know how to yield to the coming generation. He is winning at least as many tournaments as he was 10 years ago. <hr /></blockquote>And this is the reason why I still hold on to the delusion that the skills will still be there somewhere of Sigel, Hall, and Varner, three HOFers who were in essence beating up on Efren when they were all younger. I think Efren learned as much from Sigel as Sigel learned from Efren.

Fred

supergreenman
11-02-2005, 03:33 PM
Oh to have the smooth carefree stroke of Efren. He really makes it look easy. lol perhaps combine it with the efficient precision of Mika Emmonen (sp?)

Fran Crimi
11-02-2005, 05:55 PM
[ QUOTE ]
...and that just because cloth seems to run fast doesn't mean it plays and catches spin like Simonis 860. I get that "oh, yes, lame effort to make me feel better" look.
<hr /></blockquote>

Haha! I got that look too over the years. Well, they'll either figure it out or they won't. Sounds like you know your stuff...

I have a question for you: Being that you're in BC---Is snooker there generally played on slower cloths? I noticed it in Montreal and Quebec when I visited, and I was wondering if that's pretty much the standard for snooker cloth.

Fran

BCgirl
11-02-2005, 09:24 PM
I'm really not sure about cloth for snooker tables here, Fran. Frankly, I'm so challenged by snooker whenever I do play (lack of height and short-sightedness is my excuse) that I'm not sure I can even recall the colour /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif of the cloth. It's really not my game.

BCgirl

Qtec
11-02-2005, 11:21 PM
Fran, the cloth that you see the pro snooker players playing on, will rarely be found in your local club. Really fast cloth is thin and its just too expensive for club owners because it wears out fast.
Also, for a nap cloth to keep its speed, it has to be brushed and most importantly, ironed every day. Even in the pro tournys, the table is ironed between matches, sometimes in the interval. Like you say, once the hairs stand up, the table slows down drastically.
Wonder if the IPT are going to iron their tables?

Qtec

Dagwood
11-03-2005, 03:57 AM
I seriously doubt it Q. The entire point of them using the nappy cloth was that it was slower, created ever changing and thus more difficult playing conditions. Ironing would take out those variables and they might as well be playing on simmonis or granito.

Dags

Fran Crimi
11-03-2005, 08:05 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Fran, the cloth that you see the pro snooker players playing on, will rarely be found in your local club. Really fast cloth is thin and its just too expensive for club owners because it wears out fast.
Also, for a nap cloth to keep its speed, it has to be brushed and most importantly, ironed every day. Even in the pro tournys, the table is ironed between matches, sometimes in the interval. Like you say, once the hairs stand up, the table slows down drastically.
Wonder if the IPT are going to iron their tables?

Qtec <hr /></blockquote>

I don't know, Q. We still don't know exactly what type of cloth is being used. There are different grades and it might not be as bad as I'm thinking. Who knows....

I think ironing the cloth was more controversial over here than by you. Some players wanted it and others didn't. I don't remember if it was done with any consistency at tournaments.

Fran