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SnakebyteXX
11-07-2005, 01:48 PM
Denver Is First City to Legalize Small Amount of Pot

Voters erase all penalties for adults possessing less than an ounce of marijuana. State laws banning it still apply.

By Stephanie Simon, Times Staff Writer


DENVER — Bring on the jokes about the Mile High City.

Denver on Tuesday became the first city in the nation to wipe out all criminal and civil penalties for adults caught possessing a small amount of marijuana.

About 54% of voters supported a ballot measure legalizing possession of less than an ounce of pot by individuals 21 and over.

The ordinance is more radical than pro-marijuana measures approved over the years in San Francisco, Berkeley, Oakland and half a dozen college towns across the country. Most of those initiatives decriminalized marijuana for medical use, or replaced criminal penalties with small fines or directed police to make enforcement of marijuana laws a low priority.

Denver, by contrast, erased adult possession as an offense entirely.

State laws banning pot still apply in Denver, however. Police for years have cited most offenders under state law rather than city ordinance, as a matter of convenience.

The state law is pre-printed on the front of tickets, so just by checking a box an officer can issue a fine for as much as $200. To use the previous city ordinance — which carried the threat of as much as a year in jail if convicted — an officer would have to write out the relevant code by hand.

"Citing under state law has been a tradition here for years…. We intend to keep doing what we've been doing," said David W. Broadwell, an assistant city attorney.

Although the Denver vote may have no practical effect, advocates of relaxed drug laws said it was symbolic. In large part, that's because of the tactics activists used to promote the measure. The marijuana liberalization group SAFER ran a provocative — critics said deceitful — campaign to cast the measure as vital to public safety.

On yard signs and billboards, online and in voter forums, campaign director Mason Tvert, 23, tried to persuade voters that marijuana was a safer alternative to alcohol. He argued that street crime and domestic violence would drop if residents were legally allowed to smoke pot rather than down a six-pack of beer. College campuses too would be safer, he said, if joints replaced kegs at parties.

In one stunt last month, Tvert dragged a mock corpse in a body bag to City Hall and surrounded it with jugs from Wynkoop Brewery — which is owned by Denver's mayor, John W. Hickenlooper. He then piled bags of Doritos in a heap nearby. His point: Alcohol abuse can kill you. Marijuana gives you the munchies.

City officials reacted angrily to such tactics, warning that pot was a "gateway" to more dangerous drugs. They accused Tvert of confusing the public by using campaign signs that read "Make Denver SAFER." (The group's acronym stands for Safer Alternative for Enjoyable Recreation.) Tvert insisted people understood his message.

A more traditional campaign in Telluride, Colo., failed as voters rejected an effort to make pot the town's lowest law enforcement priority.

Activists expect Tvert's approach to be taken up around the country — particularly in Nevada, where pro-marijuana forces are preparing a statewide initiative to tax and regulate pot much like beer or cigarettes.

Oakland passed a similar measure last fall, but it was tabled because it conflicted with state and federal law.

"Success breeds success," said Paul Armentano, senior policy analyst with the pro-marijuana group NORML. "I think you'll see this campaign used as a model."

Even Hickenlooper, who opposed the measure, said he thought the vote might prove a bellwether.

"Peoples' attitudes [about marijuana] are changing," the mayor said. "We have one of the youngest populations of any city in the nation, so it makes sense that attitudes here might be changing faster."

Another issue on Tuesday's ballot also had national significance: The statewide vote to suspend the Taxpayer's Bill of Rights, which was considered the strictest cap on government spending in the country.

Voters agreed 52% to 48% to lift the cap and to relinquish their claim to an estimated $3.7 billion in tax refunds. The vote frees Colorado to spend millions more on higher education, healthcare and transportation.

But it infuriates fiscal conservatives who are pushing spending caps similar to Colorado's in several states, including California, Nevada and Arizona. The California measure is on next week's ballot as Proposition 76; polls show it losing by a substantial margin.

web page (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-pot3nov03,1,737353.story?coll=la-headlines-nation&ctrack=1&cset=true)

supergreenman
11-08-2005, 09:15 AM
While not actively advocating pot use /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif I applaud the people of Denver in thier statement. The Draconian laws prohibiting pot in the America(and up here in Canada) do more harm than the drug itself.

Congrats Denver, I'm sure you gave Dubya indigestion the morning after that vote /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Rich R.
11-08-2005, 09:23 AM
Sometimes laws just don't make sense to me.

How does one get less than one once of pot in their possession, without associating with someone with a lot more than one once of pot in their possession? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Voodoo Daddy
11-08-2005, 09:40 AM
I'm online now looking for a real estate agent in the greater DENVER area, HAHAHAHAHAHA

Fran Crimi
11-08-2005, 09:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> Sometimes laws just don't make sense to me.

How does one get less than one once of pot in their possession, without associating with someone with a lot more than one once of pot in their possession? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif <hr /></blockquote>


Apparently it doesn't change anything. All a police officer has to do is cite the State Law if he catches someone with less than an ounce:


The change will not affect prosecutions, according to Denver District Attorney Mitch Morrisey.

"The change in Denver’s city ordinance does not change Colorado state law," said Morrissey. "It is still illegal to possess less than an ounce of marijuana anywhere in the state, and that includes Denver."

supergreenman
11-08-2005, 10:53 AM
I don't believe it ends with state laws either, Federal laws are among the harshest for pot possesion. "Grass" narrated by Woody Harrelson is an interesting documentary on the origins US Marijuana Laws. The first US law on pot was put in place to control imigrant(mexican) workers in El Paso.

James

SnakebyteXX
11-08-2005, 11:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> Sometimes laws just don't make sense to me.

How does one get less than one once of pot in their possession, without associating with someone with a lot more than one once of pot in their possession? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif <hr /></blockquote>

"/ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif"? Imagine what life here in Nor Cal is like. We have medical marijuana laws that have blurred the line between 'legal' and 'illegal' in a big way. Here's an article that was published in our local paper this past week. Interestingly enough, if the 'Bay Area medical cannabis club' has a large enough membership - they could be in a position to legally have the confiscated pot returned. :

Deputies detain 65 workers in Fort Bragg pot raid

Friday, November 4, 2005

By GLENDA ANDERSON
THE PRESS DEMOCRAT

In a testament to marijuana's growing economic status, Mendocino County law enforcement Thursday detained 65 people hired to trim and package marijuana in Fort Bragg for a Bay Area medical cannabis club.

"I've never seen anything like this," said Mendocino County Sheriff's Capt. Kevin Broin.

The pot trimmers were identified, photographed, then released, he said. Most won't be charged with a crime.

While the people processing marijuana in the Mitchell Creek Road barn claimed they were working for a medical cannabis club, Broin said the operation was clearly commercial, which makes it illegal.

Law enforcement seized 1,707 plants and 1,000 pounds of processed, trimmed marijuana from the barn, he said.

The seizure brings the total number of plants confiscated in Mendocino County this year to 144,021.

Finding 65 people trimming and packaging pot under one roof surprised even Rusty Noe, the veteran leader of the County of Mendocino Marijuana Eradication Team.

"That's extraordinary," he said.

The largest number of people detained during pot busts normally is four or five, he said.

Noe blamed the large operation on people trying to take advantage of laws that allow marijuana to be grown for medical purposes in California.

"It seems to be the trend where people think they can do this legally, so they keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger," Noe said.

Noe would not release the names of the hired hands or of four people believed to be involved with running the operation.

The hired trimmers, all Latino and likely from Mexico, won't be charged because "they were just doing their work," he said.

Noe said he does not know how much they were getting paid, but the going rate for manicuring marijuana in Mendocino County is $25 an hour, said Dane Wilkins, who heads the Mendocino County chapter of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws.

The four U.S. citizens running the operation are expected to be charged at a later time, Noe said. A fifth unidentified person also is a suspect, he said.

Wilkins said he's not surprised there were so many people working at the Fort Bragg site.

"With the rain coming on, there's probably a rush to finish the outside work," he said.

Latino farmworkers, likely fresh from harvesting grapes, were probably hired because there was too much work for local people to handle, Wilkins said.

"It seems to be a long season, and a very good season," he said.

While he's yet to compare this year's pot crop with others, Noe agreed it's a banner year for marijuana growing, both statewide and locally.

"The season seems to be like the Energizer Bunny. It just keeps going and going," Noe said.

web page (http://www1.pressdemocrat.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051104/NEWS/511040331/1033/NEWS01)

Rich R.
11-08-2005, 11:38 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> Apparently it doesn't change anything. All a police officer has to do is cite the State Law if he catches someone with less than an ounce:


The change will not affect prosecutions, according to Denver District Attorney Mitch Morrisey.

"The change in Denver’s city ordinance does not change Colorado state law," said Morrissey. "It is still illegal to possess less than an ounce of marijuana anywhere in the state, and that includes Denver." <hr /></blockquote>
So, as I thought, the Denver law makers wasted a lot of time, and tax payer money, to legalize small amounts of pot. When, in fact, it does nothing.
Polititians find more ways to waste money each and every day. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

supergreenman
11-08-2005, 11:49 AM
I would argue that %53 of the Denver citizens wouldn't consider it a waste of money to make a political statement.

It's totally grey and inconsistant here in Canada with court rulings supporting the rights of medical marijuana, the federal gov trying to decide to bring forth legislation decriminalizing small amounts(less than an ounce &lt;---- where does that number come from anyways) and different inforcement for possession, growing and trafficking all dependant on which province you live in.

all that fuss over a little plant that gives people the munchies.

on that note, I think I'll go get a bag of chips.

Deeman3
11-11-2005, 02:57 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote supergreenman:</font><hr> I don't believe it ends with state laws either, Federal laws are among the harshest for pot possesion. "Grass" narrated by Woody Harrelson is an interesting documentary on the origins US Marijuana Laws. The first US law on pot was put in place to control immigrant(mexican) workers in El Paso. <font color="blue"> Well, that certainly worked out well didn't it. I don't partake (Deewoman does) but don't think it should be criminal to use the crap. I know it's self-medication but I'm thinking most folks are better at medicating themselves than the doctors are.</font color>

Deeman
Gets high on nothing, except that one time at PettyPoint when I drove into the pool....

Gayle in MD
11-12-2005, 09:09 AM
Tap Tap Tap...kind of funny how cigarettes are legal, but the drug that helps people who are suffering from Kemo is illegal. IMO, alcohol is a much more devasting drug than grass, which I find to be a whole lot better for me when my pinched nerve acts up, than the strong medications that the Doctors would have me use.

Gayle in Md.

Deeman3
11-12-2005, 10:32 AM
Gayle,

I have a piched nerve in my neck but the heavy pain killes just make me feel yucky. Does pot really help? I may have to try this cure. I've always thought we overdid it on trying to control drugs. If a person is weak enough to get addicted to a drug, they will find a way to get and misuse them. If they are legal, at least you don't have the crime associated with it.

Deeman

Gayle in MD
11-12-2005, 05:24 PM
Well then Dee, we do agree on some things....

I don't like to feel wizzed out, and the medications the doctors would have me use, upset my whole system. On the other hand, one puff of grass, relieves my neck the whole day. Most of the time I can keep it settled down just by exercising, and doing stretches, but when I do something dumb, like lift something I know I should lift, it can get real bad overnight. One thing that also helps, which I can't use regularly at all, but when I just realize that my neck is tightening up, if I take one valium, 5mg, before the tendons around my injury get tight, and baby myself for a day, I can often keep my neck from getting too bad. Once it is bad though, I have to break the law, LOL....

Gayle in Md., could never run for any office, could never say "I didn't inhale" with a straight face....

Deeman3
11-12-2005, 05:46 PM
Gayle,

Thanks. I'll try all of this. I had no idea a pinched nerve was so bad until this hit me a few years ago.

Deeman

wolfdancer
11-12-2005, 05:54 PM
Gayle, I lost a friend a couple of years back....a lifelong smoker, he had lung cancer. Near the end, the only thing that gave him relief was marijuana. He lived in Reno,and Nevada has some tough drug laws, which put the family at risk, when they tried to score some for him.
Kind of medieval, outlawing a drug that brings relief to a cancer sufferer.

supergreenman
11-12-2005, 08:33 PM
I find it helps the arthritis in my wrist(bad motorbike accident when I was young). However, I try not to smoke it before playing tournaments and league nights because it's a gamble. Sometimes It will put me in the zone and I can't miss other times I start to "think too much" about shots and end up making stupid errors. It's better for me to play straight. I don't drink when I play so why smoke?

Gayle in MD
11-13-2005, 06:57 AM
Dee,
I have had this bad neck since an auto accident, I was about twenty five, and my daughter was asleep on my lap, (This was before car seats for kids) so I was sitting sideways, in the passenger seat, when the car behind us slammed into to us at a stop light. The young man who hit us said his accelerator pedal stuck, but my head was thrown from side to side...not good.

Since I was a dancer, growing up, and we had a swimming pool, I knew how to keep the pain at a minimum, but I had to give up hours at the piano, extended hours at the sewing machine, just couldn't have my arms straight out or my head dropped down for extended periods of time...

Things that will make your neck act up....

Always make sure that your head isn't cranked around the wrong way, like change the chair you are sitting in when you are talking with someone so that your angle is comfortable.

Don't prop your head up at severe angles when you are reading or watching TV while reclined.

Don't lift heavy objects.

Don't spend extended hours with your hands straight out, like typing...,take time every thirty minutes or so to stretch, one hand at a time, slowly reaching to the ceiling, and slow rolling the head from looking down behind one shoulder, diagonally up and accross your other shoulder, like you are watching a plane take off behind you and watching it move up and around over the other shoulder.

Swimming is excellent...in warm water, and doing the breast stroke, can cure the worst pain as long as it is done slowly...stretches in the shower, always slowly...reaching to the ceiling, one hand at a time, and watching the plane take off, and head from side to side looking over each shoulder.

I have to exercise to keep my neck in shape, with light weights, and always stretching before and after, since keeping the muscles in your entire back, arms and abs, all support a stronger neck...stay away from yoga positions like the plow...

Whatever you do, don't ever pick up a paint brush or a roller....reaching stright out in front of you and over you head in front of you, is no good...

Stretching every morning in the shower will keep your tendons and muscles loose....

If this is a recent injury, you will probably have to re-consider your stance....for myself, the snooker stance, stright forward approach to the table, is best for my neck...

My grand daughter always loved to be carried to bed at night, so you know, I still carry her up the steps to her room here when she stays overnight, eventho she is six now, and tall for her age, enough that the top of her head is at my shoulders, since I'm a runt, lol...so I still do dumb things, but when I feel it tightening up, a valium, immediately, keeps those tendons from tightening.

Those moist heat, heat packs are great, and if you ever have it get really, really bad, get yourself some therapy right away, electrical perriferal stimulation, massage, and moist heat therapy with a good physiatrist can do wonders...

The Grass helps me, but my friend, who has a similar injury, says that gass tightens up her muscles in her back and neck, so it all depends on the person...finding the right pillow is essential...I use a pretty flat pillow so that I can scrunch it under my neck for support, but never had any luck with those curved neck type pillows.

We moved to West River thirteen years ago, and sold our home, with the pool, which we now don't want to take care of anyway, but it was so helpful in dealing with the neck, that I am considering adding on a sunroom with a lap pool inside....

Good Luck, it's a b*tch dealing with a bad neck, but if you take the time to learn how to avoid doing the things that will aggravate your condition, and do the stretches, you can keep it leveled off.

Gayle in Md...

Gayle in MD
11-13-2005, 07:05 AM
Tell me about it! I feel good about the fact that I get mine from a woman who is a parapalegic, with four kids at home, and no husband, and has grown pot for thirty years...I could never buy from a drug dealer, I'd buy a plant light first, LOL. I do feel guilty about breaking a law, even if it is a dumb law, but I really can't and won't take the strong pain killers, they have too many effects that slow down your life, and I think they are bad for your psychological health, they depress me, and I find that with exercise, and a little pot, and a vallium at severe times, allow me to live with this thing the best way I can.

Gayle in Md....there are some really dumb laws, IMO

Gayle in MD
11-13-2005, 07:11 AM
I can't shoot worth a **** and smoke, LOL. I envy people who shoot better with some alcohol or pot, lol... even beer, I have to nurse one for an hour to stay on my game if I am shooting with friends for fun. I used to think that beer helped, until I got my own table, and was practicing in the mornings...that's when I realized that for me, shooting straight goes along with being straight...must be my stroke, LOL.

Gayle in Md.

Deeman3
11-13-2005, 12:52 PM
Gayle,

Thanks for all the good advice. I will try all of them. I had truck run into the back of my wife's Corvette and drive me 700 feet, that was three years ago. It had gotten better but when I moved to Alabama from Texas, I helped move a few of the things too heavy for the moving crew. Bad move!!!!

Anyway, I had anotherMRI last week and am seeing a specialist on Tuesday but I am very reluctant to have any kind of neck surgery especially when they say, "It probably won't help, but..."

I am looking at some alternative therapy and will try many of the things you have suggested before letting them knife me.

Again, Thank-you.

Deeman

Gayle in MD
11-14-2005, 09:08 AM
You might want to make it a point to see a good Physiatrist, they specialize in soft tissue injuries. Whatever you do, don't let them operate on your neck! The only way I would have any cutting would be if my arms started to go numb, most back and neck surgeries don't help, and make things worse.

BTW, the Vallium works wonders, two days, total rest, but you have to get it in your system the minute you feel the tight neck bought coming on, and you'll be amazed how often you can avoid a bought with your neck. Mine would also work it's way down under my shoulder blade, which you can get rid of real fast by swimming, slow easy breat stroke, works great.

When I last Painted my house inside, ( Dumb move, but I was in my twenties then, thought I was invincable) I had to go to six weeks of therapy in the hospital. They taught me bio-feed back, but their proceedure was electrical perifferal stimulation, then hot moist heat packs, then the message. After six weeks I was a new woman. Another thing you might want to try, if it is really bad, is to get a cortizone injection. Not something you want to overdo, but when it is bad, it's imediate relief, and the end of the bought.

Good Luck...let me know how you make out.

supergreenman
11-14-2005, 10:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> I can't shoot worth a **** and smoke, LOL. I envy people who shoot better with some alcohol or pot, lol... even beer, I have to nurse one for an hour to stay on my game if I am shooting with friends for fun. I used to think that beer helped, until I got my own table, and was practicing in the mornings...that's when I realized that for me, shooting straight goes along with being straight...must be my stroke, LOL.

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

I totally agree with you Gayle. My teammates get on my case about being a prude, but since we've moved up a division this year, I've noticed that they've laid off the smoke and beer somewhat now too.

Perhaps it was me constantly pointing out that most other teams we play don't drink a whole lot if at all.

James /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Gayle in MD
11-14-2005, 05:57 PM
Yeah, there are two things I love to come up against when I'm out shooting, hard shooters, and fast drinkers, love em!
/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Gayle in Md.