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Sid_Vicious
11-10-2005, 07:11 AM
Streisand, whether you like her or not, condenses all of the right ideas for the need and idiocy of today for NOT impeaching Bush...sid


If Not Now... When? ...Barbra Streisand

Posted on October 26, 2005
If there was ever a time in history to impeach a President of the United States, it would be now. In my opinion, it is two years too late. We should have done this before the election to spare the country the misjudgment, the incompetence and the malfeasance of this administration. Let us remember that UN weapons inspectors asked for more time to search Iraq for WMDs. Two months into their search, the Director General of the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency, Mohamed ElBaradei, stated that he found no evidence that Iraq had revived its nuclear weapons program since its elimination in the 1990s. And Saddam Hussein had begun to comply with the administration's demands. Why would you invade a country if there was still a chance for peace? Shouldn't war be an absolute last resort? We went to war because we were misled. And we should be angry because of the 2,000 American soldiers and the 200 armed coalition forces that have died. We should be livid because of the 15,000 American soldiers that have been horribly maimed and wounded. We should be disgusted because of the 30,000 innocent Iraqi civilians that have been killed and the 20,000 that are wounded after administration officials claimed that the US was going to liberate the Iraqi people.

When does it stop? It stops with the indictment and impeachment of this corrupt, power-hungry, greedy group of incompetent leaders. How many more have to die before this happens?

Impeachment will be difficult. People must understand the power of Congress. When one party controls both the House and the Senate, they control the agenda. They control what hearings are held, what legislation gets voted on, whether subpoenas are issued and which investigations can take place. And they control whether impeachment proceedings can be brought.

We were clearly deceived by this administration and now we find ourselves fighting a war under false pretenses. There was no connection between Iraq and 9/11, despite Dick Cheney's many assertions. There were no WMD's and the CIA had intelligence which corroborated that evidence. There was no nuclear threat contrary to Condoleezza Rice's "smoking gun becoming a mushroom cloud" scare tactic. And there was no yellow cake purchased from Niger by Iraq as former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, along with our European allies, confirmed. All of these misconceptions and falsehoods were relentlessly stated. But this administration disregarded the facts because they wanted to wage this war, as we learned in the Downing Street memo.

This President will go down as the worst president in American history. His administration ignored and neglected the threats before 9/11. His team was not prepared to act and react before, during or after Hurricane Katrina. His policies have contributed to the hastening of global warming, an ever growing national debt, a rise in poverty and an increasing disparity between the rich and the poor. We are watching the middle-class disappear under Bush's leadership. He has taken our economy from the largest surplus in U.S. history to the largest deficit in U.S. history. And he has appointed several people to important positions that are unqualified and loyal to a dangerous fault.

With the recent controversy surrounding the potential indictments and charges of perjury against senior members of the Bush administration, some have made comparisons to the perjury charge that was brought against President Clinton. Perjury under any circumstance is wrong. However, in President Clinton’s situation, the matter was concerning an issue that only adversely affected himself and his family. But the potential charges filed against Bush’s closest advisors have put everybody’s families and the national security of the United States at risk.

Thank god the media and the American public are finally waking up and asking the tougher questions now. I keep hearing Harry Truman's famous statement ringing in my brain, "I wonder how many times you have to be hit on the head before you find out who's hitting you?"

DebraLiStarr
11-10-2005, 11:52 AM
The day I look in her direction for guidance and wisdom is the day I shall slash my wrists violently. She has been attacking GWB since he was Governor of Texas. She needs to shut up already. What does she care about the poor?

Cool Babs Web Page (http://kingweb.net/bs_news0.htm)

Funny Stuff (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/chainofflowers/spark.htm)

http://www.itsjustanamthing.com/index3.htm

Just to let you know that with Veterans Day being tomorrow and everything what this website thinks of Babs and her cohorts - this is straight from the website:

NOT WELCOME HERE

DRAFT DODGERS

FLAG BURNERS

WAR ( Troop Demoralizing ) PROTESTORS

DINKS

LEFT WING LIBERAL ASSHOLES

http://www.itsjustanamthing.com/janesnake.jpg

Jane ( Traitorous Bytch Slut ) Fonda Fans

Barbara (bagdad barbara) Streisand

Alex ( Yellow Streak ) Baldwin

Dave ( UnAmerican ) Matthews

Rosey ( Bend Me Over ) O'Donnell

Martin ( WaWaWaWa ) Sheen

Janet ( Martin Sheen's Real Lover, Shake & Bake ) Reno

Bill ( Draft Dodgin Sumbitch ) Clinton

Hillary ( It Takes A Hawg Like Me) Clinton

Al ( Cocaine King) Sharpton

Charlie ( I really iz a War Hero) Rangles

Mike ( Mashed Spine ) Ferrell

Sean ( Lil Saddam ) Penn

Bo (Phuck U2) No

Woody (Eat $hit and Die) Harrelson

Ed ( Tub o $hit ) Asner

Ed ( Stop Playin Marines In Movies ) Harris

Matt ( Eat $hit and Die ) Damon

Rob ( Real Meathead ) Reiner

Cheryl ( ho ) Crow

Samuel L. ( Get outta my Country ) Jackson

George ( Oh Brother Get Phucked ) Clooney

Susan ( Dumb Bytch Walking) Sarandon

Tim ( Bull$hit) Robbins

ROBERT ( Lyin Chicken $hit Azzhole )MCNAMARA

CASSIUS (Draft Dodgin Azzhole) CLAY

Ramsey (Dickhead) Clark

PHONY ( Rotten Bastard ) POW WANNABE'S

PHONY ( Cowardly ) WAR HERO WANNABE'S

MARINE CORPS (Scumbag) WANNABE'S

NAVY SEAL (in deep $hit) WANNABE'S

ARMY SPECIAL FORCES (Chicken $hit) WANNABE'S

PETER ( oooo I Luv Saddam) ARNETT

Dan ( I want to be a Marine) Rather

Peter ( I hate America) Jennings

Scott ( Marine My Phucking Ass) Ritter

Howard ( Draft Deferment My Phuckin Ass) Dean
http://ronwade.freeservers.com/Bush04BaseballThrow.JPG
http://ronwade.freeservers.com/DemCry.JPG

Deeman3
11-10-2005, 12:26 PM
Sid,

Id this the same woman who says people should not have SUV's as they are wasteful and has an air-conditioned barn and a 12,000 sq. home where only her, her husband and a few servants live? Is this the thoughtful woman who demands we pay more taxes but writes off trips to islands as charity? Who rips off her fans with more than a few "Farewell Tours"?

You know, I can't wait for Hillary to get elected as we are going to follow the same pattern your side has set in critiquing every action she takes, investigating every hick-up. I'm even going to vote for her just so I'll be sure we all have a target for four years. By the time both sides are through, no sane person will ever want to be president. Then, maybe, we can convert our views and politics to a more French style and make everyone happy.

I do want more of what you earn given to people who have less. I want the world to be fair, everyone share equally no matter what their person effort or sacrifices. The poor and even the people who don't want to work should be equal and supported by our taxes at least to the extent they can have a Summer home in the Hamptons.

I want no more talk of religeon (unless, of course, it's the religeon of peace, Islam) in schools, public and no diversity of thought such as silly anti-abortion talk. We certainly should not charge a person with double murder of he kills a mother and unborn baby as it's just a fetus, right? We should have gone to war with only those men who were on the planes on September 11th as they were the only ones involved. We should have said, "This will not stand." and then made a few under the table deals with China and the terrorists would have never attacked us again. We could have just had a group hug with Osama and it would have all gotten better. Gee, I wish we had a President like Clinton who could just weep on demand and all the problems would go away. He would have felt their pain and they would not have attacked us. USS Cole notwithstanding, Lebonon, notwithstanding, a thousand slaps at America notwithstanding.....

The really funny thing is, the terrorists hate you even more than us....You will be the first to go, liberals always are....What they are trying to do by force and terror to us, they are doing with a breeding program in Europe and this may be a good thing.

As unpopular as he is and as inept as he is in playing the policical game, GWB may be remembered as the last guy who stood on the wall before we gave it all away.

Let 's all turn to secular humanism and devoid this country of all beliefs and responsibility. Let's only critize the right and we will have that utopia that a social society promised....Opp's it never delivers, does it? Well, maybe this time...

Gayle in MD
11-11-2005, 07:12 AM
Thanks Martin, this is a good post, I could have written it myself. I agree wholeheartedly with every word Ms. Striesand has written. Unfortunately, there are still some people who continue to support the idiot, and his greedy, corrupt party. It is no wonder that those unable to view this administration in realistic terms, are the same group who don't understand the importance of separation of church and state, while supporting the biggest liars to ever infiltrate the White House. People who are too dumb to realize that this president, who obviously burned up all his brain cells doing coke and guzzling alcohol, doesn't give a flying FK about the poor, or the middle class.

Their tactics all along have been to continue to turn a blind eye towards every anti American position made by this administration. We are now known as torturers, as a country who attacks with shock and awe, Pre-emptively, and without precedented caution. While everything Bush has done has hurt our international standing in the world, his administration has outed a covert, classified operative, AND during wartime, when his logic for this war was WMD's, and her expertise WAS WMD's.

When you are trying to reason with people who can overlook the outing of operatives during wartime, it is obvious that they have not a clue about what is happening and has happened due to the deciet, corruption, greed and incompetence of George Bush and his cronies.

The evidence runs rampant in their faces, and still they defend the most destructive corrupt administration our country has ever known. If I had my way, I would make every single one who voted for him spend a week at Walter Reed, so they would have to get a closer look at the young people who have made the ultimate sacrifaces for his ineptness.

Impeachment, while certainly in order, is impossible when the halls of congress and the senate are contaminated with an overwhelming majority of corrupt republicans. Our only hope is to clear out the republican party when next we vote. Each of us who have bothered to educate ourselves regarding the Bush attack against America should make every effort in the future to make a clean sweep in the coming elections, and to work for the Democratic party. Although I am not one who considers myself a liberal, democrat or republican, I have dropped my Independent affiliation in order to work for the democrats, which is the only way to rid ourselves of the stench which has infiltrated the political arena in ways which we have never seen in the past. Book after book has been published, listing the incompetence, the mis judgments, the illegal tactics, the corrpution, yet, the blind and ill informed nature of the middle class conservatives, along with their upside down theories regarding American principles, and economic philosophy, renders them brain dead in their ability to assess the true nature of the damage inflicted on our republic. Ignorance is the hallmark of their responses to logical statements and concerns of caring Americans, such as yourself, whose first determination is to research the facts, and make decisions from facts, rather than emotional feelings of protection for their corrupt party. They are the worst of the worst, as far as I am concerned, because they care only to be part of the "Winning" party, regardless of the destruction and suffering here and in Iraq, which has resulted in the wake of the lies and mis statements made by George Bush, Rice, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and their subordinates. They, the right, are in my mind, as much if not more responsible for the dead and deformed of the war. Had they gotten off their high horses, and digested the truth, and then given a $##T about it, the country would have possibly been able to save the life and limb of thousands. But, in their ignorance, they could only focus on making sure that women lose the rights they have fought to gain for generations, force feeding the public their religious BS, and making sure little boys don't kiss.

May they continue to be out-sourced, have their neighborhoods filled with illegal aliens, and suffer the greatest consequences of this failed administration.

Gayle in Md....sick of the resmuglicans, and the ignorant supporters of George Bush and the corrput and ignorant right.

DebraLiStarr
11-11-2005, 08:14 AM
Gayle,

watch this, its a town hall meeting held while Clinton was President:

http://www.cnn.com/US/9711/21/gulf.war.town.hall/gulf.war.town.hall.46.2.2.mov


This is a history of the gulf war, it is about an hour long, but well worth viewing

http://www.prisonplanet.com/gulfwarhidden.rm

Now for my Veterans day rant -

I'm not turning a blind eye to anything. I am currenty taking care of someone that is suffering from Gulf War Illness. On a daily basis we deal with the effects of the War he fought in Kuwait & Iraq, and the war he is having to fight against his own gov't to receive medical assistance and benefits. I am not turning a blind eye to anything. I point out that the people I mentioned in my post have spoken out and spit in the faces of people that have sacrificed their lives to ensure that people like yourself have the right to say stuff like (religious BS). I am not going to apologize for or justify my beliefs to anybody. I know a lot about the situation in Iraq, more than most because of all the research we have had to do. Do you want me to go into stories of the Gulf War vets that died at home with no healthcare, no VA assistance, no comforting message from Clinton other than "I haven't seen any proof that Gulf War Syndrome exists or doesn't exist" - live a day in my shoes Mr. Clinton. I remain neutral because they are ALL assholes in my opinion - on the LEFT & The RIGHT, but since GWB has been President, great strides have been made, but people are still dying every day from these mysterious illnesses. If Kerry was elected, what would that have done to the Gulf War vets? Do you know his stance on Gulf War Illness???

Al Gore said in March of 2000 that he would oppose Saddam regime until he was ousted. He also said he the cost of war was less than the alternative. Here is the quote from the debate:

here is the link so you don't think I made it up:

http://www.issues2000.org/Celeb/Al_Gore_War_+_Peace.htm#Mideast

GORE: We have to keep a weather eye toward Saddam Hussein because he’s taking advantage of this situation [in Israel] to once again make threats and he needs to understand that he’s not only dealing with Israel, he is dealing with us.
BUSH: The coalition against Saddam has fallen apart or it’s unraveling, let’s put it that way. The sanctions are being violated. We don’t know whether he’s developing weapons of mass destruction. He better not be or there’s going to be a consequence, should I be the president.

Q: You could get him out of there?

BUSH: I’d like to, of course. But it’s going to be important to rebuild that coalition to keep the pressure on him.

Q: You feel that as a failure of the Clinton administration?

BUSH: I do.

GORE: We have maintained the sanctions. I want to go further. I want to give robust support to the groups that are trying to overthrow Saddam Hussein. Some say they’re too weak to do it. But that’s what they said about those opposing Milosevic in Serbia.

Apparantly ousting Saddam was in Algore's plans as well. So quit saying its just about oil or other stuff. Clinton bombed Saddam's ass too - and all Saddam did was make Clinton and the UN Inspectors look like clowns. He stuck his tongue out at them, mooned them, and GWB didn't put up with that crap. Remember - Saddam had a choice to make and he decided to thumb his nose to the UN and the U.S. and thats why there was a war.

Here is another quote from the same web site:

Iraq: support Saddam’s opposition, until he’s gone

Gore said he had met--and will meet again next month--with Iraqi opposition forces in order to “see Saddam Hussein gone.” In the next meeting, Gore said, “I will encourage them to further unite in their efforts against Saddam.” He said, “We have made it clear that it is our policy to see Saddam Hussein gone.”

Source: Sandra Sobieraj, Associated Press, in L.A. Times May 23, 2000


Thats just Al Gore.

And...

It's not post 9/11 either.

So what have you to say?

here's Clinton's stance from Dec 2000, also prior to 9/11

Combat terrorism; contain Iraq; develop oil
[The Clinton Administration is] combating threats:
Developed a national counter-terrorism strategy, appointing a national coordinator & striking terrorist targets in Afghanistan & Sudan.
Containing Iraq through deterrence, economic sanctions, over $20 billion in humanitarian assistance from the oil-for-food program, and support for popular opposition to Saddam Hussein’s regime.
Secured landmark agreements to develop oil & gas pipelines from the Caspian Sea to the Mediterranean Sea.
Source: WhiteHouse.gov web site Dec 1, 2000


Here's an intersting little article I found about his stance on Bin Laden - notice the date -

Legal ban on assassinations doesn’t apply to bin Laden

Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld hinted that the government has evidence showing there was state sponsorship of last week’s attacks. He said that the campaign against terrorism “will not be quick and it will not be easy” and that the goal is “to drain the swamp they live in.” He added: “We have a choice, either to change the way we live, which is unacceptable, or to change the way that they live, and we chose the latter.”
Rumsfeld said the legal ban on government-sponsored assassinations restricts what the government can do in its pursuit of bin Laden, who is described as the prime suspect in the attacks. But former president Bill Clinton, in an interview with NBC News, said the ban should pose no hurdle. The ban applies only to heads of state, not terrorists, he said. “I can assure you we’ve been trying to get Osama bin Laden for the last several years.”

Source: Dan Balz and Alan Sipress, Washington Post, p. A1 Nov 19, 2001

This was a problem that GWB inherited from Clinton. All this other BS that Bush just wanted to have a war is ridiculous. Clinton was pulling his hair out over Saddam Hussein for 8 long years. Clinton was also having to deal with Kosovo, which was no picnic, but he had to make those decisions and at the time I supported our president, despite my personal views towards him.

I refuse to buy into this "Hollywood Chic" attitude of speaking out against Bush. They all need to shut up and put on a uniform and fight for this country before I listen to a damn word that they have to say from their mansions in Malibu.

Deeman3
11-11-2005, 10:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Although I am not one who considers myself a liberal, democrat or republican, I have dropped my Independent affiliation in order to work for the democrats, which is the only way to rid ourselves of the stench which has infiltrated the political arena in ways which we have never seen in the past. <hr /></blockquote>

The democrats have done nothing other than blame Bush. They have done that for 6 years with no solutions of their own. If they had a reasonable alternative, they would run on it. Clinton's approval rating was 36% when he was halfway through his term. If you would stop celebrating every bad thing that happens to us and come up with some original thinking instead of the left wing leaflets you talk about, you might have a chance of really participating in the debate, other than blaming everything since creation on Bush.

You just don't get it. You actually believe there is a core of democratic politicians that believe the stuff your saying. You may even think they care about the poor and that they are not corrupt. If you do, you are just as guilty of blindly following someone as you say we are.

You have just been in the beltway for too long.

Impeachment? You can't even get a party strong enough to do other than whine about the 2000 and 2004 elections. How could you ever find a case for impeachment? Your leading candidate has not taken a position on anything since a month after 9/11, hoping Bush will not recover from the polls. Now, you are even looking to repackage John Kerry for 2008! That's a plan? You are now aligned with the most corrupt political party in history and you are wanting to say Bush is corrupt. Keep on going. It didn't work last time either.....You rejoice in Abu Grabe, when a few soldiers did some terrible things but still ignore the opponents atrocities like they were our fault....

Some are buying this for now as most, unfortunately, blow with the wind direction on politics. By election 2008 polls will change and you still won't have a strategy other than blame Bush and he will be gone.

Sid_Vicious
11-11-2005, 11:48 AM
If Bush is the best the right has to give this country then we are doomed. He makes Clinton look like a saint in the lying department, and has KILLED people. The staunchest reps not recognizing these pitiful events with GW's BS which misled us into this war is absolutely an ugly mark on the American way. I can not believe how Clinton was routed for a lie in an infidelity squirm-job, and Bush kills and continues to lie even more, with the consequences we ALL are in today and for the future. I'd be ashamed if I were you for being so ostrich-headed...sid

Deeman3
11-11-2005, 01:06 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> If Bush is the best the right has to give this country then we are doomed. <font color="blue"> Respectfully, still the left gives no alternatives, just more critiques of Bush!</font color> He makes Clinton look like a saint in the lying department, and has KILLED people. <font color="blue"> If he killed people, he should be arrested. If you are talking about the war, all presidents who send soldiers to war have indirectly killed them. Did we have an uprising when we attacked Germany. They never bombed us, did they? </font color> The staunchest reps not recognizing these pitiful events with GW's BS which misled us into this war is absolutely an ugly mark on the American way. <font color="blue"> The democrats were misled just like the president if we are to believe their statements after 9/11. Get over this. If you don't think we have been mislead by every administration we have had, Republican or democrat, you are fooling yourself. </font color> I can not believe how Clinton was routed for a lie in an infidelity squirm-job, and Bush kills and continues to lie even more, with the consequences we ALL are in today and for the future. <font color="blue"> What dire consequences are we in? A war? We have them every ten years or so, without fail, mostly for poor reasons. The World hates us? This is just not a popularity contest. </font color> I'd be ashamed if I were you for being so ostrich-headed...sid <font color="blue">Well, I'm not ashamed for feeling the way I do. Just because I am not a liberal, doesn't mean I have to be ashamed. Barbara Strisand is not my idea of a political leader. I don't get me new and opinions from movie stars and singers just because they talk a lot. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

pooltchr
11-11-2005, 01:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> ...idiot, and his greedy, corrupt party. ...the biggest liars to ever infiltrate the White House. People who are too dumb ... burned up all his brain cells doing coke and guzzling alcohol,

...anti American position made by this administration. ...torturers, as a country who attacks with shock and awe, Pre-emptively, and without precedented caution. ... they have not a clue about what is happening and has happened due to the deciet, corruption, greed and incompetence of George Bush and his cronies....

the most destructive corrupt administration our country has ever known. ... overwhelming majority of corrupt republicans. ...the stench which has infiltrated the political arena in ways which we have never seen in the past. ...the incompetence, the mis judgments, the illegal tactics, the corrpution, yet, the blind and ill informed nature of the middle class conservatives, along with their upside down theories regarding American principles, and economic philosophy, renders them brain dead... Ignorance is the hallmark of their responses ... their corrupt party. They are the worst of the worst, ...lies and mis statements ... and then given a $##T about it,... in their ignorance, ...their religious BS,...resmuglicans, and the ignorant supporters of George Bush and the corrput and ignorant right. <hr /></blockquote>

I took out everything except the name calling and paranoia comments. Silly me...I thought it would make the post shorter. Guess not!

Gayle in MD
11-12-2005, 07:23 AM
Steve,
If paranoia turns you off, then how can you support this administration? They rushed us into war using paranoia over false and exaggerated claims about Iraq.

As for the length of my posts, nobody forces you to read them. We already have one post police, we don't need another one!

Gayle in Md.

Deeman3
11-12-2005, 07:34 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Steve,
If paranoia turns you off, then how can you support this administration? They rushed us into war using paranoia over false and exaggerated claims about Iraq. <font color="blue">How many times must it be said. The democratic leadership, every one, had the same intellegence and came up with the same opinion on WMD's. No matter how loud you get and try to divert everything, you still come down to that. Why don't you ever critize them for their judgement? I know they are not accountable in your eyes but you just might consider them co-conspirators. UNless, of course, they were pandering with their vote for the war so they would be judged presidential material. Wouldn't that be the same. wouldn't that be dishonest? Would Hillary have voted for war when she didn't really mean it? Not for political gain, surely not! </font color>

Deeman



<hr /></blockquote>

Gayle in MD
11-12-2005, 07:56 AM
First of all, I can understand after reading your post how it is that you can support Bush, since everything in this post is either rhetoric, or a lie.

I don't hear any democratic Senators, or Congressmen discussing the highjacking of our last two elections, that has long been forgotten due to our constant awareness of the devastating results of this war, and the loss of respect for America byu the rest of the world now that they know that Bush lied us into this war, by cherry picking intelligence, which even Powell has admitted, and I don't live inside the beltway, but I am present for much of what heppens there, since I belong to the press club, and often attend those deliberations which are open to public attendance, or watch it live on C-Span.

As for being too close to the beltway, I think it was the fly over states which put this idiot into office, those same vastly intelligent people who believe the bible literally, by a margin of 45 %, and think that a man can live inside a whale...little wonder why they can't see through Bush.

Any other accusations you make do not apply, since I don't blindly follow any one party, nor do I have any continuing support for any one party over the course of my life. I should be an independent, but there are times when for the sake of expelling the worst of the worst from office, it is necessary to support the party with the best chance of dispelling whichever party which is in power, and doing damage to our country. A blind follower, I'm not....a blind follower, you are.

Abu Grabe is a national disgrace. America should never become its enemy, and torture tactics have never been supported in my lifetime by any other administration but this one, the worst of the worst. The tactic of the right which suggests that thinking people who stand against the dictator in the White House, and his lies and assults against mankind, relegate them to being unsupportive of our troops, is the biggest pile of BS I have ever heard so far, other than WMD's in Iraq. To stand against a president that lies his country into war, supports, albiet in stealth, torture of human beings, and uses a Veterans Day Address to his own means for gaining in the polls, is not what I call patriotic.

Corruption and greed are present in both parties. It is my opinion that the resmuglicans make the democrats look like Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.

Your party can't discuss anything except a blow job, how intelligent is that? Personally, I think that with the obvious obsession that the right has with blow jobs and homosexuals and torture, its pretty clear to me which party suffers from phychological sexual deviant thinking....

Get over the blow job, you're just jealous. Give a little thought to the thousands who are dying everyday because George and Dick couldn't wait to haul out the bombs. The democrats supported Bush, until they learned that he embriodered intelligence. That is a fact. Bush and Cheney were warned by the CIA that Chalabi was a liar, and that the Bitiish intelligence was flawed, but they went head strong into a war which has created great human suffering to people who never hurt anyone, when all we needed to do was get rid of thirty to fifty terrorists, now we have thousands, thanks to the right, and George, the chimp.

Gayle in Md....does the right ever read a book????

Gayle in MD
11-12-2005, 08:04 AM
The intelligence which the congress and senate were privy to was not, and is never the same as the intelligence that the president gets. The intelligence which was presented to them was exaggerated, and cherry picked. Do you ever watch any news except Fox, or read a book?

The people from the right are addicted to Hillary and Bill Clinton. That is all they are willing to focuss on, and it's no wonder, given the total mess that their candidate has made during his tenure, and his declining support in this country. The Democrats are guilty of believing a man like Bush, that was dumb, and he probably could never have pulled it off if not for the paranoid scare tactics used by his administration, 9/11, and the presence of Colin Powell, who now considers his statements to the United Nations to be a black mark on his career, and admits that the intelligence was greatly exaggerated. Read the newspaper once and a while....

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
11-12-2005, 08:09 AM
The intelligence which the Congress and Senate were privy to was not and is never the same as the intelligence that the president gets. The intelligence which was presented to them was exaggerated, and cherry picked. Do you ever watch any news except Fox, or read a book?

The people from the right are addicted to Hillary and Bill Clinton. That is all they are willing to focuss on, and it's no wonder, given the total mess that their candidate has made during his tenure, and his declining support in this country. The Democrats are guilty of believing a man like Bush, that was dumb, and he probably could never have pulled it off if not for the paranoid scare tactics used by his administration, and the presence of Colin Powell, who now considers his own statements to the United Nations to be a black mark on his career, and admits that the intelligence was greatly exaggerated. Read the newspaper once and a while....

The question is, would I be dumb enough to vote for a spoiled little brat of a millionaire whose daddy was in bed with the Saudi's, and was a burn out drug user who had never seen a battlefield? Forget about Hilliary. She and the Democrats are not the ones who told the lies, they were the recievers of the falsehoods...why can't you get this straight?

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
11-12-2005, 08:32 AM
All presidents who send soldiers to war are not presidents who didn't even fulfill their obligation to the reserves, and have never seen a battlefield, and lie to them about why we need to go, and rush into a war without using every means to make war a last resort, and go without the support of our allies, and support the use of torture, and use scare tactics to dupe Americans and the world, and have agendas before they are even elected to go to war so that they can be re-elected, and use pre-emptive attacks against countries which are of no emminent danger to us at the time we occupy thier country, and out CIA operatives, and have a cabinet full of lying, treacherous, law breakers who break the most sacred of laws regarding national security, and use religion to candy coat their history of drug and alcohol abuse, and have wives who kill on the highway, and never even have to go to court for it, and come from huge families with only one person who has ever served in a war, and are low enough to use a Veterans day speach to try to pump up their poll numbers, and can't put three sentences together without huge mistakes in wording and pronunciation, and has their own service record destroyed to hide their own dismal service record, and goes headlong into war while disregarding the advice of the experts, everyone from generals to CIA experts....just a bit of truth...oh that's right, the truth doesn't matter to the right, only the rhetoric.
I dare say, even the alternatives that they are giving at present, you obviously havent' heard, and won't hear on Fox, or in the Weekly Review...LOL

Gayle in Md.

Deeman3
11-12-2005, 09:02 AM
Gayle,

Of course, we will never agree. You will believe what you read in your leftist "books" you so often refer to and I'll believe what I see on Fox or read in the National Review. I know you are just spouting the party line but we won't get anywhere in these arguments as long as we are at polar opposites on the spectrum. You wonder why all of us non-enlightened bozos don't buy what you are selling but it remains, if you and your party could even begin to prove any of you allegations, as correct, GWB would have been gone long ago. You'll just have to settle for making him uncomfortable for the next three years. That's really all the losing side can do, right?

Gayle in MD
11-12-2005, 09:26 AM
Spoken like a true Resmuglican. I don't care what you think, and I'm not selling anything, only doing exactly what you do, writing my opinion, you resmuglican you.

The investigations are on-going, FYI, so unless you have a crystal ball, I wouldn't be so smug just yet. Of couse, while I'm may not be brilliant, I think the whole country knows that Fox news and The Weekly Review, is nothing more than Republican propaganda.

I personally select my reading material after attending author luncheons and speaches at the Press Club, and watching interviews on C-Span, PBS, CNN, MSNBC. I'm not brilliant, but I haven't driven any vehicles into any swimming pools lately.

Gayle in Md.

Deeman3
11-12-2005, 10:28 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> I'm not brilliant, but I haven't driven any vehicles into any swimming pools lately.

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> Gayle,

That's hitting below the belt. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gifTo us true Southerners, driving into a pool is a normal thing not to reflect on our sobriety or our political affiliation. Even Sid has probably done a couple of "bubba" moves. If we don't people might take us boring.

Let's just settle for we both, while not having ill feelings, wish the worst for our respective opponents in politics. I won't sell my stock in Halliburton until they fine them more than they have made and you won't switch to Fox News until Bush is impeached......

Just to keep the record straight, I never thought Clinton doing anything, like the BJ, with someone other than Hillary was a bad thing. </font color>

SnakebyteXX
11-12-2005, 11:47 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> All presidents who send soldiers to war are not presidents who didn't even fulfill their obligation to the reserves, and have never seen a battlefield...

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

Who served in the military? (http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html)

Gayle in MD
11-12-2005, 04:46 PM
WOW Snake !!! Thanks for this. I can't believe the vast difference between the Dems and the Resmugs, I had no idea there were so many chickenhawks in the republican party, AND the right wing press !!! Shouldn't surprise me, /ccboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif the names of almost all the cowardly liars are right there in the list of no service to country...Amazing

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
11-12-2005, 04:55 PM
Ah ha ha ha...good post, watch out, I'm beginning to like you....

Gayle in Md....Thinks Deeman drives better than the first lady, atleast you didn't kill anyone.

Qtec
11-13-2005, 12:54 AM
http://www.awolbush.com/images/werent-soldiers.jpg


/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Q

Gayle in MD
11-13-2005, 06:11 AM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif I loved the picture that was going around after Katrina, the People of New orleans wading aroun in waist deep water, and Bush in a fishing boat, in the foreground, pulling in a fish....

Gayle in Md.

pooltchr
11-13-2005, 08:22 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> wives who kill on the highway, and never even have to go to court for it, and come from huge families with only one person who has ever served in a war, <hr /></blockquote>

Three words:
Senator Edward Kennedy

Gayle in MD
11-14-2005, 08:31 AM
FYI...Senator Edward Kennedy served his country, along with his three borthers, and his sister. One brother gave his life for his country in wartime, two others assasinated in their presidential efforts to serve their country. Even his sister, joined the armed forces. Compare that record with the Bush family, and then ask yourself where in the hell you've been the last fifty years.

George Bush was a drug user...whose daddy got him a cushy situation, personal favor from a general, in the reserves, and then he couldn't even manage that without being awol and too drugged up to turn up for the mandatory drug testing, and physical.

Ok, no question, Ted Kennedy did the wrong thing, under the influence of alcohol, what's Laura's excuse. Give me one, just one valuable thing that she has done as First Lady...smile, nod, smile, nod....

Jackie Kennedy lead this country, and the world, through grief and the loss of a beloved President, with dignity and grace. She raised, alone, two up-standing kids to adulthood, without a Dad around to help. Unlike the Bush twins, whose extracurricular activities we are all familiar with...young ladies, out drunk driving...neither of which seems to have any notion about giving back to the country for their advantaged position and the silver spoons in their mouths. Not to mention Jeb's son, who got caught with crugs while in a drug rehab, and the other Bush brother, who draws a good comparison to the Enron boys.

I think, that as a family, the Kennedy Family has given a great deal to our country, and lost a great deal in the giving...the Bush family has one, just one person who has served the country, and that is George Bush Senior, who was such a terrible president, the country couldn't wait to get rid of him. He has one of the most dismal records in the history of this country. But even with all that, atleast he wasn't dumb enough to open up the pandora's box that his stupid ex druggie alcoholic son has opened.

I'll take the Kennedy's anyday.....

Gayle in Md.

DebraLiStarr
11-14-2005, 09:02 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> I'll take the Kennedy's anyday.....

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

...and nobody will fight you for them.

This gets old. You spend more time bashing Bush and complaining about the sad state of the world than anyone I have ever seen - are you involved in your community? If not, you should be. You sound very passionate. Get involved in your own community.That's where it starts, not in internet forums. If you want to make a difference, get up and do something instead of bashing those that are trying. You will learn that most people will not care what side you are on as long as you have their best interests at hand.
Best of Luck,
Debra

pooltchr
11-14-2005, 10:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> I'll take the Kennedy's anyday.....

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

Please do! I wish someone would take him away! All he does is bad mouth everything the rest of the Senate tries to do. No positive actions, just a lot of negative........

Never mind, I just figured out why you would like him.
Steve

DickLeonard
11-15-2005, 06:09 AM
Gayle you are giving George Bush senior too much credit for serving in World War 11. See if you can review his war record. What I have read is he crashed two planes and survived while his two Co-Pilots had the misfortune of getting Killed.####

Gayle in MD
11-15-2005, 07:04 AM
You're right, Dick. We didn't really expect heroism from a Bush, right? Gotta give credit to him where it's due though, atleast he didn't cop out on going at all. I'd LOVE to see a run down of the immediate family relatives of the members of Congress, and the Senate, and the cabinet who are in Iraq!

I think it should be a clue to everyone that when Americans won't join to fight in a war, SOMEONE chose the wrong war. We're headed for a draft, no question, there's no solution to this mess made by the chimp. It's going to go on for years and years, and there's no way to avoid re-instating the draft if it does. Meanwhile, the airwaves are full of BS about our great economy, LOL, while we're trillions in debt, and grwoing by the billions every week, while Halliburton gets richer and richer, and the millionaires continue to enjoy hundreds of thousands a piece every year in tax relief I've never seen such a mess. Results of letting a bunch of Ivey League intellectuals, with no common sense, and a beady eyed little chimp mascot, call the shots.

Gayle in Md.

Sid_Vicious
11-15-2005, 07:14 AM
"Results of letting a bunch of Ivey League intellectuals, with no common sense, and a beady eyed little chimp mascot, call the shots."

Don't hold back Gayle, tell us what you really think! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif Keep up the good work Friend...sid

Gayle in MD
11-15-2005, 08:18 AM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif...Nartin, we need a kiss icon on here...XOXO

Love,
Gayle

eg8r
11-15-2005, 10:29 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Abu Grabe is a national disgrace. America should never become its enemy, and torture tactics have never been supported in my lifetime by any other administration but this one, the worst of the worst. <hr /></blockquote> Look we all know most of the stuff you post here is emotional B.S. Maybe because beyond all of this you really do want the right things to happen, have the right person running the country, eliminate the entire poor population by flooding them with the riches of the rich, etc. However, if you continue to post abosolute blatant lies then you are no better than what you have called the President.

Your wording leads one to believe the President supported this torture. You have no proof and it is a blatant lie. The truth of the matter is that the Army began investigating the prison scandal 6 months prior to the press ever printing the first word. The President has never shown any support in the torture of the prisoners at Abu Grahib.

eg8r

eg8r
11-15-2005, 10:34 AM
[ QUOTE ]
FYI...Senator Edward Kennedy served his country, along with his three borthers, and his sister. One brother gave his life for his country in wartime, two others assasinated in their presidential efforts to serve their country. Even his sister, joined the armed forces. Compare that record with the Bush family, and then ask yourself where in the hell you've been the last fifty years. <hr /></blockquote> I can tell you in the last 50 years, I did not kill Mary Jo Koepechne. Can Ted say that? I did not think so.

eg8r

hondo
11-15-2005, 11:15 AM
Guys, in my opinion the pres is doing the best
he can. Let's all just unite behind him and quit
thinking so doggone hard. Harri Miers said he was
the most brilliant man she ever met and I bet she's
met a bunch of smart men. He never dreamed Iraq
would tun out like it did. Can't you forgive him?
I think it's a shame that only 37% of Americans
support him. The other 73% are sending the WRONG
message to those heathens out there who don't
understand that the Bush way is the American way.
I just felt it was about time one of us Bushites
defended the President rather than just saying
Clinton &amp; Kerry' mamas wear combat boots &amp; are ugly.

DebraLiStarr
11-15-2005, 11:18 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> I can tell you in the last 50 years, I did not kill Mary Jo Koepechne. Can Ted say that? I did not think so.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

Just for you, Ed!!!! (http://www.tonyrogers.com/humor/dem_national_convention.htm)


http://images5.theimagehosting.com/Chapaquiddick.JPG

http://patriotart.com/images/1-17-05/ChappaquiddickFats1.jpg
/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

wolfdancer
11-15-2005, 11:36 AM
You've convinced me...I'm crossing you off my list of suspicious die-hard, ultra right wing,fanatics, that might have drugged Ted, cut his brake line, or did both.
Now where were you on Nov 22, 1963?

supergreenman
11-15-2005, 11:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Your wording leads one to believe the President supported this torture. You have no proof and it is a blatant lie. The President has never shown any support in the torture of the prisoners at Abu Grahib.
eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

If this was the case, then why has the Bush administration flatly refused to rule out torture.

SnakebyteXX
11-15-2005, 12:03 PM
Rumor has it that Ted was zorked on a heavy dose of LSD the night he 'got lost' and drove off the bridge. It would explain a couple of things. Like for example: getting lost in the first place and driving off a bridge in the second place and taking several hours (to sober up?) before reporting the accident in the third place.

I'm thinking that it's possible that Acid may have played a secret role in this now infamous incident.

We'll never know...

Snake

wolfdancer
11-15-2005, 12:34 PM
That's mighty deep thinking for a WV boy.
[ QUOTE ]
He never dreamed Iraq
would tun out like it did <hr /></blockquote>
Maybe he shudda listened to his Daddy, who said that we, the U.S. didn't have the right to occupy Iraq, and he didn't want to commit us to fight an insurgent war there.
Mama Clinton wears combat boots?...I didn't know that...but with all that body fluid lying around, maybe she was afraid she might step in some.

hondo
11-15-2005, 12:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> That's mighty deep thinking for a WV boy.
&lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
...............................................
Thanks, darlin, I thought so too.
Maybe he shudda listened to his Daddy, who said that we, the U.S. didn't have the right to occupy Iraq, and he didn't want to commit us to fight an insurgent war there.
.................................................. ..
George Sr has turned into a sex crazy cohort of that
prevert Clinton. He has lost all credibility. If
these ole boys would stick with sheep they could
maintain their integrity.

eg8r
11-15-2005, 01:15 PM
[ QUOTE ]
If this was the case, then why has the Bush administration flatly refused to rule out torture. <hr /></blockquote> I am not going to speak for the administration, and I am not going to sit back and let you or Gayle do it either. As far as my post, it is in reference to the insinuation that the President supported the torture at Abu Grahib.

eg8r

eg8r
11-15-2005, 01:16 PM
[ QUOTE ]
You've convinced me...I'm crossing you off my list of suspicious die-hard, ultra right wing,fanatics, that might have drugged Ted, cut his brake line, or did both.
Now where were you on Nov 22, 1963? <hr /></blockquote> LOL, not even born. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif I am a youngin' (sp?).

eg8r

eg8r
11-15-2005, 01:23 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> I just felt it was about time one of us Bushites defended the President rather than just saying Clinton &amp; Kerry' mamas wear combat boots &amp; are ugly. <hr /></blockquote>

Very funny, but you know, saying you are a Bushite (even in jest) is just like drinking the kool aid. Now, you can never admit to any wrongdoing by Bush and push back on all naysayers for every single thing negative about Bush (except his horribly out of control spending problem). /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

eg8r &lt;~~~bets Kerry's mama was ugly (or his daddy, but someone's genes contributed to that mess)

supergreenman
11-15-2005, 02:46 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
If this was the case, then why has the Bush administration flatly refused to rule out torture. <hr /></blockquote> I am not going to speak for the administration, and I am not going to sit back and let you or Gayle do it either. As far as my post, it is in reference to the insinuation that the President supported the torture at Abu Grahib.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

I don't feel it's at all a stretch to insinuate that Bush supported the policies that were in place that lead to the torture of Iraqis in Abu Grahab especially since he flatly refuses to rule out torture. As far as I'm concerned if he's willing to lie about reasons to invade a sovergn country and kill tens of thousands of Iraqis, send 2000+(soon to be 2100)of your sons and daughters to thier death, injured and maimed thousands more then he wouldn't blink a second to lie about torturing a few Iraqis.

By the way, have you ever figured out why your country is in Iraq? Inquiring minds want to know.

By the way, we both come from countries that have free speech enshrined in our constitutions so you are going to have to sit back and let anybody who feels like commenting on the Many faults of a man who's actions are effecting the whole planet adversly speak thier mind. Just like I have to sit back and respect your opinions no matter how much I dissagree with them.

James

Gayle in MD
11-16-2005, 12:24 AM
I can answer that one for you friend, because the Bush administration IS for torture, obviously. Everyone in the country knows that, accept for the 20 to 30 percent that are still under the Rove/Bush hypnotic trance, or still think that Fox is a news channel, LOL.

When you have a President whose administration maintains secret prisons, and fights on the hill to maintain the right to handle prisoners under a cloak of secrecy, and not have to abide by the Geeneva Convention, it is safe to say, this administration supports torture. The horror lies in the fact that along with that, we have a president and an administration that refuses to put themselves out there for questioning with any regularity, and give the American people explanations beyond the sound byte, bumper sticker slogans, AND during a war which the majoirty of the people in this country think they were lied into in the first place.

Imagine !!! such a partisan bunch on the hill, being THIS divided, and still coming together to force the administration to come out in the daylight to be held accountable for their plan, and report on their progress during wartime!!!! That is how incompetant the Bush administration is. Five hundred trained Iraqis in over two years?????

Gayle in Md. How many Iraqis does it take to pull a trigger?

Gayle in MD
11-16-2005, 12:28 AM
AH HA HA HA HA....too funny!!! The Clinton part I mean....you're a riot!
/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gifGayle

Gayle in MD
11-16-2005, 12:34 AM
Bravo and a tap tap tap for you friend!

/ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Gayle in Md. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Qtec
11-16-2005, 02:01 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I don't feel it's at all a stretch to insinuate that Bush supported the policies that were in place that lead to the torture of Iraqis in Abu Grahab especially since he flatly refuses to rule out torture. As far as I'm concerned if he's willing to lie about reasons to invade a sovergn country and kill tens of thousands of Iraqis, send 2000+(soon to be 2100)of your sons and daughters to thier death, injured and maimed thousands more then he wouldn't blink a second to lie about torturing a few Iraqis.
<hr /></blockquote>

I have no doubt that THIS admin is prepared to do anything to achieve their goals. They cannot be trusted. GW sentenced 150 prisoners to death, I dont think he even gives torture a moments thought.
Here is a story that is not being reported in the US press. If they are capable of doing this to people and then lie about it, they are capable of anything.

http://usinfo.state.gov/media/Archive_Index/Illegal_Weapons_in_Fallujah.html
[ QUOTE ]

Finally, some news accounts have claimed that U.S. forces have used "outlawed" phosphorous shells in Fallujah. Phosphorous shells are not outlawed. U.S. forces have used them very sparingly in Fallujah, for illumination purposes. They were fired into the air to illuminate enemy positions at night, not at enemy fighters.

[November 10, 2005 note: We have learned that some of the information we were provided in the above paragraph is incorrect. White phosphorous shells, which produce smoke, were used in Fallujah not for illumination but for screening purposes, i.e., obscuring troop movements and, according to an article, "The Fight for Fallujah," in the March-April 2005 issue of Field Artillery magazine, "as a potent psychological weapon against the insurgents in trench lines and spider holes …." The article states that U.S. forces used white phosphorous rounds to flush out enemy fighters so that they could then be killed with high explosive rounds.]





<hr /></blockquote>

Here is a short clip, you tell me if they are now telling the truth.

clip (http://www.revver.com/video/2963/?__session_just_started__=1)

Q

pooltchr
11-16-2005, 04:54 AM
War is not pretty, but it is certainly "life or death". If I am out in the field of battle, I would use any means available to keep my ass alive. Tell me you wouldn't do the same!!!!
Steve

eg8r
11-16-2005, 05:24 AM
[ QUOTE ]
and not have to abide by the Geeneva Convention, it is safe to say, this administration supports torture. <hr /></blockquote> I don't believe he ever asked to not abide by the Geneva Convention. The problem is that you don't care about the Geneva Convention. You just want to change the rules as you go, as you see fit. You give greater priority to a man that will blow you up then to a man who will save your life and it is disgusting. Your continued rants against Bush are very pleasing to the murderous Islam fanatics. They pray every day more will listen to your rant.

eg8r

eg8r
11-16-2005, 05:34 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I don't feel it's at all a stretch to insinuate that Bush supported the policies that were in place that lead to the torture of Iraqis in Abu Grahab especially since he flatly refuses to rule out torture. <hr /></blockquote> You are twisting what was being said, creating a strawman. This is not about what policies Bush supported that led to the torture. This is about Bush supporting the ACTUAL TORTURE.

[ QUOTE ]
By the way, have you ever figured out why your country is in Iraq? Inquiring minds want to know.
<hr /></blockquote> I don't find this question very "inquiring" and your use of the word "mind" is a little comical also. Obviously not a "thinking" mind.

[ QUOTE ]
By the way, we both come from countries that have free speech enshrined in our constitutions so you are going to have to sit back and let anybody who feels like commenting on the Many faults of a man who's actions are effecting the whole planet adversly speak thier mind. Just like I have to sit back and respect your opinions no matter how much I dissagree with them.
<hr /></blockquote> You are flat out wrong. I don't have to sit back and listen. Reason being is that Free speech does not say sit back and listen to others spew lies. What it says is we all have the right to free speech. Spew your lies and I will do my best to offer the correct version.

eg8r

eg8r
11-16-2005, 05:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote q's words:</font><hr> I have no doubt that THIS admin is prepared to do anything to achieve their goals... <blockquote><font class="small">Quote q's quote from an article:</font><hr> Finally, some news accounts have claimed that U.S. forces have used "outlawed" phosphorous shells in Fallujah. Phosphorous shells are not outlawed. U.S. forces have used them very sparingly in Fallujah, for illumination purposes. They were fired into the air to illuminate enemy positions at night, not at enemy fighters.

[November 10, 2005 note: We have learned that some of the information we were provided in the above paragraph is incorrect. White phosphorous shells, which produce smoke, were used in Fallujah not for illumination but for screening purposes, i.e., obscuring troop movements and, according to an article, "The Fight for Fallujah," in the March-April 2005 issue of Field Artillery magazine, "as a potent psychological weapon against the insurgents in trench lines and spider holes …." The article states that U.S. forces used white phosphorous rounds to flush out enemy fighters so that they could then be killed with high explosive rounds.]
<hr /></blockquote><hr /></blockquote> The problem with this quote and your posts is that for every bad thing that might happen on the battlefield you are very quick to blame Bush for orchestrating it. Since you have found something you consider a gem, why don't you keep digging and find us the motherload. If you could just find an article that stated Bush directed his Generals to aim this crap right at the enemy, boy wouldn't that just put the nail in the coffin. The problem is that you are too lazy to do the extra work. Too lazy to really prove your point. So what does a lazy, uninspiring biased foreigner do, he finds instances were the military might have made mistakes and blames it on the President. There is no proof that President ordered these to happen and you know this, so you sit there and navigate away from Google because you really are not up to the task of finding any real proof. If what you say is true and it is the President's fault then the truth must be out there, you are just too darn lazy to Google it.


eg8r

Qtec
11-16-2005, 08:04 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> War is not pretty, but it is certainly "life or death". <font color="blue"> Thats my point Steve, War is not something to take lightly or glamorize. </font color> If I am out in the field of battle, I would use any means available to keep my ass alive. Tell me you wouldn't do the same!!!! <font color="blue"> I would do the same Steve, I think in life threatening situations people will do anything to stay alive. The decision to use WF in this case was made by the commanders, not the grunts who are doing the real fighting.</font color>
Steve <hr /></blockquote>

Q

pooltchr
11-16-2005, 08:30 AM
And if the commanders made the decision to use any means available to keep their men alive, I don't see any problem with the decision.
Been there, done that, got the t-shirt
Steve

supergreenman
11-16-2005, 09:26 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> You are flat out wrong. I don't have to sit back and listen. Reason being is that Free speech does not say sit back and listen to others spew lies. What it says is we all have the right to free speech. Spew your lies and I will do my best to offer the correct version.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

Your so called correct version is your opinion only and you're entitled to it as I said in my previous post. However you are not entitled to call me a liar or insult me personally. I refrained from making any kind of personal attack on you because it's wrong and goes against what I believe to be Free Speech in the context of an open debate. You may have the right to state your opinions however biased and tainted they may be by your blind faith in a corrupt leader but you don't have the right to call me a liar for stating my opinion based on the facts as I know and understand them. That in my OPINION shows a total lack of class. Have a good day

Qtec
11-16-2005, 09:45 AM
[ QUOTE ]
The problem with this quote and your posts is that for every bad thing that might happen on the battlefield you are very quick to blame Bush for orchestrating it. <font color="blue"> Did I say Bush or the admin? </font color> Since you have found something you consider a gem, why don't you keep digging and find us the motherload. <font color="blue"> Like I said, this story is hot on the web- everywhere except the US press. </font color> If you could just find an article that stated Bush directed his Generals to aim this crap right at the enemy, boy wouldn't that just put the nail in the coffin. <font color="blue"> I dont have to. Generals get their orders from the Commander in Chief. </font color> The problem is that you are too lazy to do the extra work. Too lazy to really prove your point. So what does a lazy, uninspiring biased foreigner do, he finds instances were the military might have made mistakes and blames it on the President. There is no proof that President ordered these to happen and you know this, so you sit there and navigate away from Google because you really are not up to the task of finding any real proof. If what you say is true and it is the President's fault then the truth must be out there, you are just too darn lazy to Google it. <font color="blue">Blah, blah , blah..............The problem with you die-hard GW lovers is that you know you have been conned! You just cant stand to admit the truth because it makes you a sucker. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif </font color>


eg8r
<hr /></blockquote>

Isnt GW the Commander in Chief? Didnt I see him on the deck of a US ship with the Mission Acomplished banner in the backround? He was very willing to take the credit when there was something to celebrate.

Actually you are right, GW is too much of a brainless moron to know whats going on. Rummy and Cheney are the culprits. GW cant even string a sentence together.

Q

Qtec
11-16-2005, 09:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote supergreenman:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> You are flat out wrong. I don't have to sit back and listen. Reason being is that Free speech does not say sit back and listen to others spew lies. What it says is we all have the right to free speech. Spew your lies and I will do my best to offer the correct version.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

Your so called correct version is your opinion only and you're entitled to it as I said in my previous post. However you are not entitled to call me a liar or insult me personally. I refrained from making any kind of personal attack on you because it's wrong and goes against what I believe to be Free Speech in the context of an open debate. You may have the right to state your opinions however biased and tainted they may be by your blind faith in a corrupt leader but you don't have the right to call me a liar for stating my opinion based on the facts as I know and understand them. That in my OPINION shows a total lack of class. Have a good day <hr /></blockquote>

Get used to it S. eg8r has to get personal because he deosnt have any argument.

Q

supergreenman
11-16-2005, 09:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Get used to it S. eg8r has to get personal because he deosnt have any argument.

Q <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks Q, I kinda sorta figured that out. Maybe one day he'll figure out that nobody pays attention to a persons arguement when they turn it into a personal attack /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Peace is free, it only requires an open mind. War sells, but Bush's Mastercard(tm) is expiring

hondo
11-16-2005, 11:10 AM
You give greater priority to a man that will blow you up then to a man who will save your life and it is disgusting. Your continued rants against Bush are very pleasing to the murderous Islam fanatics. They pray every day more will listen to your rant.

You're right, eg.Also, Big Brother prays every day
that there are more like you that blindly follow
authority that would take away every personal right
we have.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

eg8r
11-16-2005, 11:36 AM
[ QUOTE ]
You may have the right to state your opinions however biased and tainted they may be by your blind faith in a corrupt leader but you don't have the right to call me a liar for stating my opinion based on the facts as I know and understand them. <hr /></blockquote> Well that muddies the water. Facts as you know and understand them might not be facts at all. You were stating that Bush supported the toture at AG because he refused to denounce all use of torture. Is this type of "fact" that you know and understand? If so, then I rest my case, you will be spewing lies. Bush supported the punishment of those individuals who acted illegally, that is hardly synonymous with supporting the torture.

When I said "correct version" I was not clear in what I meant. I meant, if you post something that is wrong, I will do my best to point it out and explain why I think it is wrong. If you take offense to being aligned with "liars" then refrain from agreeing to statements like Bush supported the toture at Abu Grahib (or whatever other paraphrase will suit you from Gayle's post). This is a lie. If you agree with it and perpetuate it here on the board, can you be referred as anything other than someone telling lies? You did not post any fact to back up the statement, all you gave was your opinion on Bush's position with toture.

[ QUOTE ]
I refrained from making any kind of personal attack on you because it's wrong and goes against what I believe to be Free Speech <hr /></blockquote> What you believe to be Free Speech means nothing to me or most anyone else in the world who practices free speech. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif That is the beauty of free speech. However, if you feel I was attacking you by stating you were spewing lies, then I am not sorry. This is no different than you stooping down and identifying your biased view of my class.

Good day to you, and I hope you continue to take the moral high ground (well as long as you don't continue to drop from your perch in all your second to last sentences). /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

eg8r
11-16-2005, 11:48 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Did I say Bush or the admin? <hr /></blockquote> Don't play games. Do you really NEED to say Bush or admin? You have no reason for existence on this side of the board if you are not looking to find fault with Bush or the admin.

[ QUOTE ]
Like I said, this story is hot on the web- everywhere except the US press. <hr /></blockquote> Like I said, why don't you keep digging until you find the real meat of the story.

[ QUOTE ]
I dont have to. Generals get their orders from the Commander in Chief. <hr /></blockquote> You do have to, the generals were not the ones doing the firing. You still need to provide some proof of Bush giving these orders to the generals. You are just too lazy to really prove your point. You are much more comfortable with saying, "because I say so" instead of giving real proof.

[ QUOTE ]
Blah, blah , blah..............The problem with you die-hard GW lovers is that you know you have been conned! You just cant stand to admit the truth because it makes you a sucker. <hr /></blockquote> LOL, awww that is the best you have. We all know you are not interested in finding the smoking gun, you live in a world driven by conspiracy. You have no facts, just mere supposition and guess. You really have no idea how orders are passed down through the ranks, who makes what call, when are the orders are improvised, who has the authority to improvise or the simple chance that sometimes a soldier might just do whatever they want and not follow orders. You have nothing, never have, but your desire to argue is astounding.

If you really had some proof that Bush and admin was behind all this and supported it, you would have produced it. The fact that you did not shows you have nothing.

[ QUOTE ]
Actually you are right, GW is too much of a brainless moron to know whats going on. Rummy and Cheney are the culprits. GW cant even string a sentence together. <hr /></blockquote> Now there is nothing to argue with this at all. W's command of the english is weak. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif I hope he does better when the redlight on the camera shuts off.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
11-17-2005, 07:02 AM
Hey, SGM, Q is right. I don't answer Ed anymore. Ed's game is to first twist what you actually say, into some other meaning, insult you, and then insist that since he has deemed your post as not agreeable to him, YOU, must be the one to google yourself into oblivian in order to provide HIM with an education of the facts, which HE is too lazy to do for himself. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Bottom line, I don't think he even reads the newpaper. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif He probably doesn't even realize that the President has already told the Hill that he will veto anything that requires him to rule out torture. He's trying to focuss on Abu Grabe, which in and of itself actually is an indication of how this administration looks the other way when our people practice torture, but ABG was not what we were referring to, rather we're referring to the policies which led to ABG. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif There are many ways, both overt and covert in which leaders convey to their generals what is acceptable, although when the jig is up, it is always the underlings who are put in jail, hence, Scooter is on his way for what Cheney put into action.

I don't answer posts when the writer is insulting. There are just a few on here who can't debate without insulting you, a sure sign of their ignorance, and inability to provide a convincing debate without insisting the you do the work for them, LOL.

President Bush and Cheney sacrifice our troops in a war for Iraqi democracy, and Iraqi freedom of speach, while they insult Americans for articulating their disapproval of the administration who lied them into a war, and then didn't even prepare our troops for the worst case scenario.

I think it's a "Right" thing, this phenomena of denying the right of Americans to speak their minds.....unless you support our dictator.

Gayle in Md.

DickLeonard
11-17-2005, 07:15 AM
Gayle I read the morning news GWB is telling South Korea that North Korea having nuclear weapons is unexceptable. It looks like were are going to war there. I think we should have learned our lesson we can't beat old ladies carrying bombs how are we going to beat someone with a standing army.

We are going to have to reinstate the Draft. Of course it is one way to cull the poor,the helpless,the powerless, while making the rich and powerful exempt from it.####

Gayle in MD
11-17-2005, 07:51 AM
No truer words were ever spoken, my friend. As usual, Bush will continue to stir things up, and without any diplomacy, thereby, putting us at even more risk than we had in the first place.

One thing is for sure, the next time he cries wolf, we will have no allies, now that he has destroyed our credibility around the world, and grown our enemy base. Our only hope, is that the Democrats will expose his intentional twisting of intelligence, and lying through the ommission of intelligence, and impeach him, and indict Cheny, in time for us to get someone in there who has some common sense, understanding of combat, and credibility in the world.

Why did he go to Iraq in the first place, when it was obvious that Iran and North Korea were the real threats to our safety? Obviously, his plan to put democracy in place in the middle east, in Iraq, isn't working, since the Iraqis won't step up to the place and fight for their own freedom, all we have done is weaken our army, and our credibility, and increase our enemies. What will China do to us? Now that they own us.....where will the money come from to fight the real threats from our powerful enemies, now that we have wasted all this time and money and lives for NOTHING! We are less safe than ever, thanks to the chimp.

Gayle in Md.

supergreenman
11-17-2005, 08:49 AM
Hi Gayle, I completely agree. My last reply to his post is in fact my last reply to him on this subject. I refuse to get drawn into a political arguement with someone who doesn't acknowledge as a fact what most people in the world consider common knowledge.

James

Gayle in MD
11-17-2005, 09:03 AM
I understand exactly how you feel. Eventually, like me, you probably won't want to answer his nit-picking at all. I'm sure Ed is a nice guy in person, he just has a habit of trying to dictate to others what they are allowed to write about, there is another poster here who does the same thing, LOL. Yet he thinks it's a good idea for us to lose over two thousand troops so that Iraqi's can enjoy freedom of speech.

Gayle in Md.

supergreenman
11-17-2005, 09:08 AM
I wonder if an Iraqi would tell you today that they have free speech, freedom of assembly or freedom of religion.

I highly doubt that Freedom of Speech was on anybodys mind in the White House when Shock and Awe was unleashed.

James

Gayle in MD
11-17-2005, 09:18 AM
True, usually freedom of speech goes along with having a democracy, but like Ed, Bush and Cheney only support freedom of speech when the speaker agrees with them. Personal attacks against those with contrary opinions seem to be the hallmark of the right, especially now that the majority of Americans think that Bush misled us, and that he has mishandled this war.

Gayle in Md.

Qtec
11-17-2005, 10:05 AM
Ed, the 'meat' is the fact that WP was used as a weapon and the US denied it for a year. Just like the torturing of prisoners in Abu G, they only admitted it when the press broke the story.
They have used MK77, almost identical in its effect to Napalm.
In Fallujha, 37,000 houses were destroyed and 300,000 people made homeless.
The US/Iraqi Govt, now has to explain the 170 prisoners who were found just this week in a bunker, who have been starved and repeatedly tortured.
The US took out the Iraqi Govt, disbanded the Army and dismissed all police/security services. They allowed the country to be ransacked and the borders to become open . This waa an invitation for Islamic Fs from all over the world to flock to Iraq and make it one of the most dangerous places on Earth- especially for foriegners..

Its one PR disaster after another and its one lie after another.

Is it any surprise that %75 of Iraqis want the US out!

Do you remember this photo/ PR disaster?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/education/asguru/generalstudies/culture/04news/images/phan_thi_kim_phuc2.jpg

It was the begining of the end for the US in Vietnam.

If the President is not responsible for the actions of his Armed Forces, then neither is Saddam responsible for the actions of his.
According to your rationale, we might as well let Saddam go- because he cant be held responsible for the torture on detainees by the Security forces, or the chemical weapons attacks on the Kurds or anything else for that matter- without direct proof that he gave the order.
He could say all his actions were based on National Security grounds, all done to protect Iraq from Islamic insurgents! He could say we were trying to rewrite history, .....................but would we believe him?


Q

DebraLiStarr
11-17-2005, 10:34 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> True, usually freedom of speech goes along with having a democracy, but like Ed, Bush and Cheney, only support freedom of speech when the speaker agrees with them. Personal attacks against those with contrary opinions seems to be the hallmark of the right, especially now that the majority of Americans think that Bush misled us, and that he has mishandled this war.

Gayle in Md.

<hr /></blockquote>

Not true. When debating issues, present issues. Ed does a very good job disputing your comments, and avoiding him does not mean you are right, it just means you are avoiding him. I told you earlier in this thread that you are a very passionate person, Gayle. Bitching about all of this stuff in an internet biliards forum does nothing to solve any of what you are complaining about.

In the city I live in (Kissimmee,Florida) there is a large hispanic population that come into this area over the past 10-15 years. Many people complain that nobody speaks english, crime rates &amp; unemployent are up, property values are down, and its all 100% BS and there are no facts to substantiate the claims of the people that bitch about the hipanic population. People act as if there were no problems before these people got here. Thats not true.

White land owners sold their massive Disney area property to land developers. They made a nice profit off of it. The same people that have ties to that land have perpetuated these rumors in an attempt raise taxes while lowering property values. They can do this because they have controlled the political spectrum for years. Now that the population majority is hispanic, they are seeing a shift in local community leadership.

Some people have actually moved away from the area (selling their homes to hispanics for 400 % profit in the process mind you) and then they bad mouth the area and everyone that still lives here. People blame our traffic congestion on the Puerto Rican population, when in fact, it is a result of the fact that Orange County (where Disney is actually located) gets road funding when my county Osceola County) gets next to nothing in that regard. That is due to ineffective leadership. Its a mess. Most people stay stay in Kissimmee when they visit Disney, yet because Disney is located in Orange County we receive less road funding. I live 12 miles from work, yet sometimes it takes me 90 minutes to get home. What we are doing as citizens (Bipartisan) is collectively attacking the issues that affect all of us. Its not about left or right wing bullshit. Its about accomplishing what needs to be accomplished. All the other rhetorical garbage is just a sideshow and waste of energy and resources.

In the issue I just told you about, people have clouded the issues with this White Vs Hispanic crap. As an woman of Asian descent I see no sense in that. All it does is put the real issues on the backburner so that people can argue. In the meantime nothing is accomplished.

There are bad politicians represented in all of the parties, not just the GOP, and believe me, I'm not stupid nor do I turn a blind eye to that. I do disagree with the bitching and moaning that is not accompanied by action. Its one thing to point out deficiencies in government, and something completey different when you get up off your butt and do something about it. All that is required is the facts fueled by your passion. I'll coment on these issues, but I also back it up by being actively involved in my community. I don't use my busy schedule as an excuse to avoid that responsibility either.

Qtec
11-17-2005, 02:20 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Not true. When debating issues, present issues. Ed does a very good job disputing your comments, and avoiding him does not mean you are right, it just means you are avoiding him. I told you earlier in this thread that you are a very passionate person, Gayle. Bitching about all of this stuff in an internet biliards forum does nothing to solve any of what you are complaining about <hr /></blockquote>

Whatever gave you the idea that the posters on this board are out to change the world?
Just because we discuss and argue about whats happening in the world , doesnt mean that we take it so seriously. I cant remember the last poster who said, " Thats it guys, I,m off to Pakistan to help with the earthquake!".

As far as I am concerned Gayle can rant, rave, stamp her feet and make her point anyway she can, without being insulting.
She can be intense but your post was totally condecending and had nothing to do with her post.

Q

DebraLiStarr
11-17-2005, 02:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>
She can be intense but your post was totally condecending and had nothing to do with her post.

Q <hr /></blockquote>

All I see is people attcking and criticizing. If you find me or my posts to be "totally condescending" - GOOD!!!

Deeman3
11-17-2005, 03:55 PM
That's it! I've had it. I'll meet all of you in the school parking lot at 4:00 tomorrow and we can duke it out.

Deeman /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

supergreenman
11-17-2005, 04:04 PM
um, is that eastern standard, central, mountain standard or pacific time?

pooltchr
11-17-2005, 06:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> As far as I am concerned Gayle can rant, rave, stamp her feet and make her point anyway she can, without being insulting.
= <hr /></blockquote>

Q,
I agree...especially with the last three words of the quote above.

Steve

eg8r
11-18-2005, 05:26 AM
LOL, what a riot, in alignment with your hypocritical ways here on the board, you are insulting in the quote in which you state you don't reply to those who insult you. I think your problem is not being insulted it is the fact that someone actually is shining the light on you. [ QUOTE ]
I don't answer posts when the writer is insulting. There are just a few on here who can't debate without insulting you, a sure sign of their ignorance, and inability to provide a convincing debate without insisting the you do the work for them, LOL.
<hr /></blockquote> You call people ignorant if they insult you (sorry if the truth is sharp) but you have no problem insulting the subject of your post. You have insulted more than half the American people, the President and the rest of his administration, etc, maybe you deserve a little of your own kind.

eg8r

eg8r
11-18-2005, 05:35 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Hi Gayle, I completely agree. My last reply to his post is in fact my last reply to him on this subject. I refuse to get drawn into a political arguement with someone who doesn't acknowledge as a fact what most people in the world consider common knowledge. <hr /></blockquote> Because I don't agree with you, Gayle and all of the poor people you have dragged into this post, you don't want to reply. Well I am sorry for your childish behaviour but just because you, Gayle and the rest of those poor people have some common knowledge, that does not make anything FACT. To help put your ridiculous logic in place, at one point in time it was common knowledge the world was flat. Thank goodness, given the state of your logic, no one fell off the edge (could you imagine if Kerry was President, Chirac and Schroeder would be running our country for us).

eg8r

eg8r
11-18-2005, 05:40 AM
[ QUOTE ]
As far as I am concerned Gayle can rant, rave, stamp her feet and make her point anyway she can, without being insulting.
<hr /></blockquote> You are right, given her Constitutional right to free speech, she can do this. The problem is that she has not shown the capacity to do so. She insults everyone in her posts.

[ QUOTE ]
She can be intense but your post was totally condecending and had nothing to do with her post.
<hr /></blockquote> And this is something you have the audacity to point out. Hilarious indeed. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

eg8r

eg8r
11-18-2005, 05:43 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Now that they own us.....where will the money come from to fight the real threats from our powerful enemies, now that we have wasted all this time and money and lives for NOTHING! We are less safe than ever, thanks to the chimp.
<hr /></blockquote> And someone said you could post and not be insulting. You can't hide from yourself and you do a great job proving them wrong.

eg8r

eg8r
11-18-2005, 06:06 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Is it any surprise that %75 of Iraqis want the US out!
<hr /></blockquote> What is surprising is your ability to come up with this number. How did you compile it?

[ QUOTE ]
According to your rationale, we might as well let Saddam go- because he cant be held responsible for the torture on detainees by the Security forces <hr /></blockquote> I wish for once you would just think a little before you post. Go back and read my replies and see if after processing that clear information you are still able to come back with such a completely ridiculous result. There is not one thing I have said in this thread that would lead anyone to believe my rationale exists as you have stated.

There is no doubt in my mind, and probably anyone else you ask, that Saddam commanded the terror and torture of his own people. No where in this thread will you find me saying Bush has made the same commands.

You can continue to try and twist around what is being said, but I will continue to straighten it back out. Your ability to completely miss what I am saying is astounding. The first sentence of your post is concrete proof of this. I have not a care in the world for your thoughts. I don't care if you believe in anything or what sort of flimsy statistical figure you want to pull out your rear end. What I am asking for is facts.

Don't give me your screwed up suppositions and conspiracy theories UNLESS you correctly identify them as such. Then it would entertainment and I don't mind reading that. However, you post this crap about what is happening and you try to pin it on W. I ask for the proof that has W commanding it to happen. You cannot prove it, so quit with your leading questions and statements about who is responsible. Quit being lazy and prove your points, otherwise let us know this is your best guess and really not fact at all.

eg8r

Qtec
11-18-2005, 08:10 AM
Is it any surprise that %75 of Iraqis want the US out!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[ QUOTE ]
What is surprising is your ability to come up with this number. How did you compile it?


<hr /></blockquote>January 29, 2005
Polls Show Iraqis Want U.S. Troops Out
"Majorities of Iraq's Sunni Arabs (82%) and Shiites (69%) favor U.S. forces withdrawing either immediately or after an elected government is in place," according to a new Zogby Poll.

The Washington Post notes similar surveys: "Public opinion polls show 80 percent want the Americans out of their country. In the election campaign, one common theme among candidates was the withdrawal of occupying forces."

Q

eg8r
11-18-2005, 10:17 AM
That is what I thought.

eg8r

supergreenman
11-18-2005, 10:31 AM
Once again eg8r you've provided me without meaning to my morning laugh.

Thanks,

James

Peace

Deeman3
11-19-2005, 06:10 AM
Hypocrisy gets a bad rap. When you're under 30, you think there's nothing worse than a hypocrite. When you get older, you realize you are one. How could you not be? All of us fall short of our expectations of ourselves and of other people. All of us do things we know we shouldn't. If you're living up to your own ideals, you've got low standards.

So, yes, we're all hypocrites. But some of us are bigger hypocrites than others. Some of us are such profound hypocrites, in fact, that other people write nasty books about us pointing out that fact. Peter Schweizer has written such a book, called ‘Do As I Say (Not As I Do): Profiles in Liberal Hypocrisy.’ Schweizer is coming on the show tonight, and I'm sitting in my office at the moment flipping through his book. It's compelling reading.

Here's how Barbara Streisand thinks the rest of us should live, as she explained in the pages of Tikkun magazine: "We can continue to thrive on this earth, but in order to do so, we must adapt to a more sustainable way of life. While there is still some time to alter our way of living, we must begin now to behave respectfully and honor these sacred gifts -- our rolling hills and mountains, the depths of our blue oceans and rivers, the richness of our forest and plants and the vastness of our land."

According to Schweizer, here's how Barbra Streisand lives: Her annual water bill is $22,000, most of it for watering her lawn.

Then there's Michael Moore. Moore has made a living by cataloging the various sins of American life, while simultaneously trumpeting his own exquisite moral goodness. Moore may be heavy-set and sloppy, but he's decent. That's the message. Nothing bothers Michael Moore more than racism. In his book Stupid White Men, Moore announced his desire to "hire only black people" from here on out.

He didn't live up to the pledge, to put it mildly. As Schweizer demonstrates, Moore has hired essentially no black people at all. In three of Moore's projects that he looked into (Fahrenheit 911, Bowling for Columbine and the show TV Nation), Schweizer could find only a single non-white person on staff.

But my favorite example of hypocrisy in the book involves Halliburton. You remember Halliburton, the evil oil-services and defense contractor that, with the help of Dick Cheney and the Trilateral Commission, is subverting democracy and oppressing poor people around the world. No one hates Halliburton more than Michael Moore. Every time an American dies in Iraq, he has said, "I would like Halliburton to slay one mid-level executive."

Well, guess what? Michael Moore has been a Halliburton investor. According to IRS records Schweizer found, Moore made 15 percent off of his Halliburton shares.

In other words, Michael Moore has profited from the very evil he decries. Come to think of it, let me revise my first sentence. Yes, hypocrisy is universal and understandable. But there's a limit.

<font color="blue"> Tucker Carlson November 11, 2005 </font color>

Qtec
11-20-2005, 12:16 AM
Deeman, I said right at the beginning when I came on this board that for the US to succeed in Iraq, they would have to have the support of the people. What have GW and Rumy done.
First they let the country fall into anarchy, then they get caught torturing prisoners, now they have secret prisons around the world , people are being 'disappeared', the whole Gitmo mess and now [ after dening it for a year]found to be using white phosphorous as a weapon, is hardly going to endear you to the local populaton.
[ In Abu G, the army themselves admitted that %90 of the prisoners were probably innocent! So for every 1 terrorist they caught they made 9 enemies!]
What I am saying is, if you want to win the war on terror, THIS isnt the way to do it. They havent a clue what to do about the situation THEY have caused in Iraq and its bringing us all in danger.
Saddam was never a threat but the terrorists are and thanks to George, there are now 1000,s more willing to blow themselves up for nothing.

What they should have done was seal the borders and employ EVERYONE.
What you have now is a puppet Govt full of crooks and a breeding ground for terrorists who seem to be able to act with impunity.
Q