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ceebee
11-15-2005, 11:57 AM
This email is chilling and it is true:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/lamm.asp

As the person who reported this says, it is chilling because it isn't a prediction of the future. It is something that is happening today, and not just in California.

We all know Dick Lamm as the former Governor of Colorado. In that context his thoughts are particularly poignant. Last week there was an immigration overpopulation conference in Washington, DC, filled to capacity by many of American's finest minds and leaders. A brilliant college professor named Victor Davis Hanson talked about his latest book, "Mexifornia," explaining how immigration - both legal and illegal was destroying the entire state of California. He said it would march across the country until it destroyed all vestiges of The American Dream.

Moments later, former Colorado Governor Richard D. Lamm stood up and gave a stunning speech on how to destroy America. The audience sat spellbound as he described eight methods for the destruction of the United States.

He said, "If you believe that America is too smug, too self-satisfied, too rich, then let's destroy America. It is not that hard to do. No nation in history has survived the ravages of time. Arnold Toynbee observed that all great civilizations rise and fall and that 'An autopsy of history would show that all great nations commit suicide.'"

1. "Here is how they do it," Lamm said: "Turn America into a bilingual or multi-lingual and bicultural country. History shows that no nation can survive the tension, conflict, and antagonism of two or more competing languages and cultures. It is a blessing for an individual to be bilingual; however, it is a curse for a society to be bilingual.

"The historical scholar Seymour Lipset put it this way: 'The histories of bilingual and bi-cultural societies that do not assimilate are histories of turmoil, tension, and tragedy.' Canada, Belgium, Malaysia, Lebanon all face crises of national existence in which minorities press for autonomy, if not independence. Pakistan and Cyprus have divided. Nigeria suppressed an ethnic rebellion. France faces difficulties with Basques, Bretons and Corsicans."

2. Lamm went on: "Invent 'multiculturalism' and encourage immigrants to maintain their culture. I would make it an article of belief that all cultures are equal. That there are no cultural differences. I would make it an article of faith that the Black and Hispanic dropout rates are due to prejudice and discrimination by the majority. Every other explanation is out of bounds.

3. "We could make the United States an 'Hispanic Quebec' without much effort. The key is to celebrate diversity rather than unity. As Benjamin Schwarz said in the Atlantic Monthly recently: 'The apparent success of our own multiethnic and multicultural experiment might have been achieved not by tolerance but by hegemony. Without the dominance that once dictated ethnocentrically and what it meant to be an American, we are left with only tolerance and pluralism to hold us together.'"

4. Lamm said, "I would encourage all immigrants to keep their own language and culture I would replace the melting pot metaphor with the salad bowl metaphor. It is important to ensure that we have various cultural subgroups living in America reinforcing their differences rather than as Americans, emphasizing their similarities."

5. "Fourth, I would make our fastest growing demographic group the least educated. I would add a second underclass, unassimilated, undereducated, and antagonistic to our population. I would have this second underclass have a 50% dropout rate from high school."

6. "My fifth point for destroying America would be to get big foundations and business to give these efforts lots of money. I would invest in ethnic identity, and I would establish the cult of Victimology.' I would get all minorities to think their lack of success was the fault of the majority. I would start a grievance industry blaming all minority failure on the majority population."

7. "My sixth plan for America's downfall would include dual citizenship and promote divided loyalties. I would celebrate diversity over unity. I would stress differences rather than similarities. Diverse people worldwide are mostly engaged in hating each other - that is, when they are not killing each other." "A diverse, peaceful, or stable society is against most historical precedent. People undervalue the unity it takes to keep a nation together. Look at the ancient Greeks. The Greeks believed that they belonged to the same race; they possessed a common language and literature; and they worshipped the same gods. All Greece took part in the Olympic games. A common enemy Persia threatened their liberty. Yet all these bonds were not strong enough to over come two factors: local patriotism and geographical conditions that nurtured political divisions. Greece fell. "E. Pluribus Unum", From many, one. In that historical reality, if we put the emphasis on the 'pluribus' instead of the 'unum,' we can balkanize America as surely as Kosovo."

8. "Next to last, I would place all subjects off limits ~ make it taboo to talk about anything against the cult of 'diversity.' I would find a word similar to 'heretic' in the 16th century - that stopped discussion and paralyzed thinking. Words like 'racist' or 'xenophobe' halt discussion and debate." "Having made America a bilingual/bicultural country, having established multi-culturist having the large foundations fund the doctrine of 'Victimology,'I would next make it impossible to enforce our immigration laws. I would develop a mantra: That because immigration has been good for America, it must always be good. I would make every individual immigrant symmetric and ignore the cumulative impact of millions of them."

9. In the last minute of his speech, Governor Lamm wiped his brow.
Profound silence followed. Finally he said, "Lastly, I would censor Victor Davis Hanson's book "Mexifornia". His book is dangerous. It exposes the plan to destroy America. If you feel America deserves to be destroyed, don't read that book."

There was no applause. A chilling fear quietly rose like an ominous cloud above every attendee at the conference. Every American in that room knew that everything Lamm enumerated was proceeding methodically, quietly, darkly,yet pervasively across the United States today. Every discussion is being suppressed. Over 100 languages are ripping the foundation of our educational system and national cohesiveness. Barbaric cultures that practice female abuse are growing as we celebrate 'diversity.'

American jobs are vanishing into the Third World as corporations create a Third World in America - take note of California and other states - to date, ten million illegal aliens and growing fast. It is reminiscent of George Orwell's book "1984." In that story, three slogans are engraved in the Ministry of Truth building: "War is peace," "Freedom is slavery," and "Ignorance is strength."

Governor Lamm, walked back to his seat. It dawned on everyone at the conference that our nation and the future of this great democracy is deeply in trouble and worsening fast. If we don't get this immigration monster stopped within three years, it will rage like a California wildfire and destroy everything in its path, especially The American Dream.

Sid_Vicious
11-15-2005, 04:29 PM
I appreciate you posting that Ceebee. Depressing thing about it that if this strong conservative administration with more condensed power than maybe ever, has not, will not, actually panders to the problem...we are doomed. I'll point another finger at Bush over this one, and you know which finger it is!!!!!!!sid

ras314
11-15-2005, 06:15 PM
Theodore Roosevelt on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN

"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

pooltchr
11-15-2005, 06:21 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ras314:</font><hr> Theodore Roosevelt on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN

"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907 <hr /></blockquote>

Too bad there aren't more people who have the ball$ to admit this today.

Sid_Vicious
11-15-2005, 06:41 PM
THAT is EXACTLY the problem! sid

SnakebyteXX
11-15-2005, 07:32 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote ras314:</font><hr> Theodore Roosevelt on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN

"...Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all..."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907 <hr /></blockquote>

Too bad there aren't more people who have the ball$ to admit this today. <hr /></blockquote>

Wonder what our Irish American citizens might have to say about this? Suppose it would be a good idea to outlaw St.Patrick's Day while we're at it?

Or the Italian Americans? Should we cancel Columbus Day?

Snake

Gayle in MD
11-15-2005, 11:36 PM
Compelling, chilling and very true. What is happening in France, is a preview of what we will face with anchor babies when they reach young adulthood. When my Grandfather raised his children, they were not allowed to speak Italian. His motto was, "When in Rome, do as the Romans." The illegal immigration problem, and the global economy mess, outsourcing of American Jobs, and trade deficits, just a few of the many ways in which this administration has failed to address the most pressing problems America faces today. Eight years of Bush will leave this country at an all time low, in so many ways, I don't expect to see recovery of any measure in my lifetime. Unfortunately, our children and grandchildren will have to pay the price for the assault against America which has been the hallmark of this administration.

Gayle in Md....thanks for the post

Qtec
11-16-2005, 02:10 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SnakebyteXX:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote ras314:</font><hr> Theodore Roosevelt on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN

"...Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all..."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907 <hr /></blockquote>

Too bad there aren't more people who have the ball$ to admit this today. <hr /></blockquote>

Wonder what our Irish American citizens might have to say about this? Suppose it would be a good idea to outlaw St.Patrick's Day while we're at it?

Or the Italian Americans? Should we cancel Columbus Day?

Snake <hr /></blockquote>

Good question snake.
I,ve got one as well, "what is an American?"

Q

pooltchr
11-16-2005, 05:05 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Good question snake.
I,ve got one as well, "what is an American?"

Q <hr /></blockquote>

Why don't you come over (Legally) and find out!!!
If you can'f figure it out, let me give you an idea.
An American loves this country and the principles on which it was founded. FREEDOM...freedom to come and go as you please, freedom to speak your mind, freedom to work hard for what you want, and the freedom to keep it when you earn it. Every time an illegal gets ANY benefit from this country, it is taking away from my freedom in that part of what I earn has to pay for it.

An American sees our flag, not as a piece of pretty cloth, but as a symbol of all the freedom we are blessed with, and a reminder of EVERY fellow American who gave their life to fight for the freedom of the rest of us. This is why I get so PI$$ED OFF when the government continues to take away our individual freedom. It's a slap in the face to every dead US Soldier in every cemetary around the world.

You want some of that? Come and get it! But do it legally, or face the wrath of the true Americans who still believe this is the greatest country on the planet! (at least for now!)

Steve

Sid_Vicious
11-16-2005, 06:03 AM
Tell you what...every immigrant of every kind leave our 10 commandments alone and where they've always been, here ALL ALONG, before those immigrants even thought about coming to reside in this country, and they have my blessings in keeping all of their holidays. Who's trying to diminish who's patriotic rights and who's doing it, the host or the hostess? It is a much "deeper well" than just the 10 commandments, we've been given close to the last rung on the right's ladder in this country as legacy Americans...sid

Leviathan
11-16-2005, 06:44 AM
Hot dog! A Cultural Purity campaign--just what we need to get us all marching in step behind truly conservative leaders! Oo! Oo! Oo! I want to be the first one to call it a [i]crusade!

AS

Deeman3
11-16-2005, 08:27 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> I,ve got one as well, "what is an American?"

Q <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">An American is black, white, Chinese, Indian and a hundred other types and sometimes mixtures of many of these. He/she believes a variety of things but mostly in the right to hold beliefs, popular and unpopular. They will defend the right of others to desent but join together to defend all Americnas when threatened from outside. They will help people less fortuante just because it's in their heritage. They made many mistakes over 200 plus years but realize that America is a work in progress and never claimed to be perfect, just better than most alternatives. They all stand on a wall for freedom, not only for themselves but for others. They want to be their brother's keeper and better than msot of us are. They want to feed the hungry but make sure they have as much opportunity as handouts. They want their children to have a better life but still hold values they understand, understanding that is not always possible. Thye want the right love God and hate God with equal protection under the law. They may not agree with the Civil Liberties Union but don't want it to go away. They want to change leaders every once in a while just because it's a good idea to do so. They want safety from threats, internal and external and the ability to ost tyrants peacefully if possible but by any means if necessary. They want Q to shut up but not really as we are made better and stronger by those who speak openly, wheather we agree or not. They want Democrats to run against Republicans and reserve the right for the losing half, no matter which, to complain loudly for the next four years, then repeat the cycle with the other side at the next election. There are some who want this to be a right wing, "you have to go to church on Sunday" and some who want a completely secular community where God is never mentioned. However, the vast majority don't want either, just a safe and predictable environment where we don't go back to the days of coat hanger abortions by frightened, depressed women nor one where you are belittled because your money says, "In God we trust."

Most of them, us, you want a civil life with compassion but reasonable choices made by reasonable people. </font color>

Deeman3
11-16-2005, 08:27 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> I,ve got one as well, "what is an American?"

Q <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">An American is black, white, Chinese, Indian and a hundred other types and sometimes mixtures of many of these. He/she believes a variety of things but mostly in the right to hold beliefs, popular and unpopular. They will defend the right of others to desent but join together to defend all Americnas when threatened from outside. They will help people less fortuante just because it's in their heritage. They made many mistakes over 200 plus years but realize that America is a work in progress and never claimed to be perfect, just better than most alternatives. They all stand on a wall for freedom, not only for themselves but for others. They want to be their brother's keeper and better than msot of us are. They want to feed the hungry but make sure they have as much opportunity as handouts. They want their children to have a better life but still hold values they understand, understanding that is not always possible. Thye want the right love God and hate God with equal protection under the law. They may not agree with the Civil Liberties Union but don't want it to go away. They want to change leaders every once in a while just because it's a good idea to do so. They want safety from threats, internal and external and the ability to ost tyrants peacefully if possible but by any means if necessary. They want Q to shut up but not really as we are made better and stronger by those who speak openly, wheather we agree or not. They want Democrats to run against Republicans and reserve the right for the losing half, no matter which, to complain loudly for the next four years, then repeat the cycle with the other side at the next election. There are some who want this to be a right wing, "you have to go to church on Sunday" and some who want a completely secular community where God is never mentioned. However, the vast majority don't want either, just a safe and predictable environment where we don't go back to the days of coat hanger abortions by frightened, depressed women nor one where you are belittled because your money says, "In God we trust."

Most of them, us, you want a civil life with compassion but reasonable choices made by reasonable people. </font color>

Qtec
11-16-2005, 08:32 AM
Good answer but I thought the guy was talking about multi-culturalism.

[ QUOTE ]
1. "Here is how they do it," Lamm said: "Turn America into a bilingual or multi-lingual and bicultural country. History shows that no nation can survive the tension, conflict, and antagonism of two or more competing languages and cultures. It is a blessing for an individual to be bilingual; however, it is a curse for a society to be bilingual.

2. Lamm went on: "Invent 'multiculturalism' and encourage immigrants to maintain their culture.

4. Lamm said, "I would encourage all immigrants to keep their own language and culture I would replace the melting pot metaphor with the salad bowl metaphor. It is important to ensure that we have various cultural subgroups living in America reinforcing their differences rather than as Americans, emphasizing their similarities." <hr /></blockquote>

Forcing people to change is against the principals of freedom, is it not?

Q

Qtec
11-16-2005, 09:18 AM
Great post deeman. I would say that is the aim of all Democratic societies.
[ QUOTE ]
He/she believes a variety of things but mostly in the right to hold beliefs, popular and unpopular. <hr /></blockquote>

This is something that has been missing since GW got into the WH. Anyone who disagrees from the official view is seen as an enemy.

Q

hondo
11-16-2005, 10:53 AM
Things have gotten out of hand, Snake. The Irish
and Italians wanted to fit in,wanted to be American.
Many Italians Americanized their names. A lot of
people are just trying to get by &amp; have a good life.
In my opinion America has just about all we can handle
right now. This is one area where MOST liberals &amp;
conservatives agree so why is something being done?
If my area depended on Latino tourism I'd try to learn
Spanish. But otherwise why the hell should I? If they
want to become American citizens they need to adapt
to OUR expectations.

Wonder what our Irish American citizens might have to say about this? Suppose it would be a good idea to outlaw St.Patrick's Day while we're at it?

Or the Italian Americans? Should we cancel Columbus Day?

Snake <hr /></blockquote>

hondo
11-16-2005, 10:57 AM
Tap! Tap! Tap! Right on , Dee.

<font color="blue">An American is black, white, Chinese, Indian and a hundred other types and sometimes mixtures of many of these. He/she believes a variety of things but mostly in the right to hold beliefs, popular and unpopular. They will defend the right of others to desent but join together to defend all Americnas when threatened from outside. They will help people less fortuante just because it's in their heritage. They made many mistakes over 200 plus years but realize that America is a work in progress and never claimed to be perfect, just better than most alternatives. They all stand on a wall for freedom, not only for themselves but for others. They want to be their brother's keeper and better than msot of us are. They want to feed the hungry but make sure they have as much opportunity as handouts. They want their children to have a better life but still hold values they understand, understanding that is not always possible. Thye want the right love God and hate God with equal protection under the law. They may not agree with the Civil Liberties Union but don't want it to go away. They want to change leaders every once in a while just because it's a good idea to do so. They want safety from threats, internal and external and the ability to ost tyrants peacefully if possible but by any means if necessary. They want Q to shut up but not really as we are made better and stronger by those who speak openly, wheather we agree or not. They want Democrats to run against Republicans and reserve the right for the losing half, no matter which, to complain loudly for the next four years, then repeat the cycle with the other side at the next election. There are some who want this to be a right wing, "you have to go to church on Sunday" and some who want a completely secular community where God is never mentioned. However, the vast majority don't want either, just a safe and predictable environment where we don't go back to the days of coat hanger abortions by frightened, depressed women nor one where you are belittled because your money says, "In God we trust."

Most of them, us, you want a civil life with compassion but reasonable choices made by reasonable people. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

hondo
11-16-2005, 11:01 AM
Who's forcing anybody to change? i thought we were talking
about being American citizens?

Forcing people to change is against the principals of freedom, is it not?

Q <hr /></blockquote>

SnakebyteXX
11-16-2005, 12:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> Things have gotten out of hand, Snake. The Irish
and Italians wanted to fit in,wanted to be American.

Many Italians Americanized their names. A lot of
people are just trying to get by &amp; have a good life.

<font color="blue">Back in the day, Italian and Irish immigrants were generally NOT welcomed to America by the local citizenry. As a result they suffered emotional, social and economic abuse. Much like the Mexican immigrants that are currently at issue they were forced to take lower paying jobs and live in sub-standard housing. Largely due to the many of the same issues that face immigrants today - racism, bias and bigotry.

While Irish immigrants were not faced with the language barriers that greeted the non-English speaking Italians they were nonetheless considered by many to be near the bottom of the human scale - Inferior in intelligence and limited in their capacity to perform any but the most menial jobs. Italian immigrants didn't fare much better.

As to 'wanting to fit in'? I have no doubt that this was true. However, I do not believe that this was done whole cloth but rather as a progressive assimilation slowly over generations. There were 'Little Italyís' and 'Little Irelands' in major cities all across this country where the language and cultural heritage of the mother country was predominant.

Here in 'my town' there is a rather large Italian American community. Many of whom originally came over from Italy around the end of the Nineteenth Century. When I was a kid (back in the 60's) I knew several school mates whose parents spoke little or no English. The kids of course spoke both Italian and English. I am absolutely sure that their children (the kids of the kids I knew) ALL speak English and are more 'American' than their grand parents ever were. That's what I mean by generational assimilation.

My wife and I are good friends with a Mexican couple who came to this country illegally nearly sixteen years ago. They originally planned to save money and return to Mexico when the time was right. In the mean time their children were enrolled in school and began 'assimilating'. Here 16 years later the kids speak perfect English - their parents speak enough to get by and are constantly working to learn more. For all intents and purposes the kids (and the parents to some degree) are 'Americans'. They would no more fit back into a strictly Mexican culture in their home country than you or I.

In the years since they first arrived this couple have gone from living in a run down trailer on the back of a ranch to owning their own home. They work very hard and save their pennies. Harder than many of their American counter-parts. This hard work ethic is not uncommon for first-generation American immigrants - it's one of the things that has made America the great country that it is today.

In fact I am of the opinion that it's a lack of work ethic lies at the heart of many of the problems we currently face in America. Far too many of our citizens are unwilling to put out the effort to make a better life for themselves. Instead they prefer to rely on handouts. Far be it for them to tackle the kind of menial labor that the vast majority of Mexican immigrants willingly embrace.

Having said all this I doubt that I can build an argument that justifies the presence of upwards of eleven million illegal immigrants. I have no doubt that there is a huge strain on our social services and many other problems that this large number of non-citizens incurs.

I also have no doubt that if America shared a common border with Europe (or Ireland) like we do with Mexico the number of illegal Irish and Italian immigrants might be equally large. Basically, I don't see the current problems with having a large number of immigrants in our country as being much different now than it was a Century ago. We locals tend to dislike them because they are different - because they don't speak our language - because they're trying to take away our jobs - because many of us believe that they are racially inferior - because we feel threatened by that which we do not understand.

</font color>

In my opinion America has just about all we can handle
right now. This is one area where MOST liberals &amp;
conservatives agree so why is something being done?

<font color="blue">I assume you mean 'why isn't something being done'? In point of fact something is being done but it is largely ineffective. The reasons run deep. Not the least of those reasons is that this group of illegalís performs a valuable economic service - they do the jobs we don't want to do - and many Americans (particularly politicians) recognize that ridding the country of all the illegalís might just end up doing more harm than good. </font color>

If my area depended on Latino tourism I'd try to learn
Spanish. But otherwise why the hell should I? If they
want to become American citizens they need to adapt
to OUR expectations.

<font color="blue">There's a couple of important points here. Number one: By dent of geography we happen to be isolated from the rest of the planet by two major oceans. We speak English only and don't bother to learn other languages because we don't have to. Meanwhile in many of the remaining shoulder to shoulder first world countries the inhabitants speak several languages and don't think twice about it. What do you suppose this means when we're confronted with such issues as the current massive trade imbalance? Do you suppose there might be any additional benefit to doing business with foreign countries if most members of our business community commonly spoke several languages? Could it possibly be detrimental that so many of them only speak English and refuse to learn other languages?
I think so.

As to Spanish? How about the fact that Hispanics represent an increasingly significant portion of our economy? Think about the opportunities and benefits of doing business with Hispanics if you spoke both English and Spanish?

Well enough said (probably too much- lol.)

Snake </font color>
<hr /></blockquote>

hondo
11-16-2005, 01:21 PM
Having said all this I doubt that I can build an argument that justifies the presence of upwards of eleven million illegal immigrants. I have no doubt that there is a huge strain on our social services and many other problems that this large number of non-citizens incurs.
.................................................
The bottom line. despite the truth in what you say
this is what most of us are talking about. Where do we
draw the line?

<font color="blue">There's a couple of important points here. Number one: By dent of geography we happen to be isolated from the rest of the planet by two major oceans. We speak English only and don't bother to learn other languages because we don't have to. Meanwhile in many of the remaining shoulder to shoulder first world countries the inhabitants speak several languages and don't think twice about it. What do you suppose this means when we're confronted with such issues as the current massive trade imbalance? Do you suppose there might be any additional benefit to doing business with foreign countries if most members of our business community commonly spoke several languages? Could it possibly be detrimental that so many of them only speak English and refuse to learn other languages?
I do.

As to Spanish? How about the fact that Hispanics represent an increasingly significant portion of our economy? Think about the opportunities and benefits of doing business with Hispanics if you spoke both English and Spanish?
.................................................. .
Very true. No argument there but doesn't really
address the issue.

Chopstick
11-17-2005, 05:38 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> I,ve got one as well, "what is an American?"

Q <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">An American is black, white, Chinese, Indian and a hundred other types and sometimes mixtures of many of these. He/she believes a variety of things but mostly in the right to hold beliefs, popular and unpopular. They will defend the right of others to desent but join together to defend all Americnas when threatened from outside. They will help people less fortuante just because it's in their heritage. They made many mistakes over 200 plus years but realize that America is a work in progress and never claimed to be perfect, just better than most alternatives. They all stand on a wall for freedom, not only for themselves but for others. They want to be their brother's keeper and better than msot of us are. They want to feed the hungry but make sure they have as much opportunity as handouts. They want their children to have a better life but still hold values they understand, understanding that is not always possible. Thye want the right love God and hate God with equal protection under the law. They may not agree with the Civil Liberties Union but don't want it to go away. They want to change leaders every once in a while just because it's a good idea to do so. They want safety from threats, internal and external and the ability to ost tyrants peacefully if possible but by any means if necessary. They want Q to shut up but not really as we are made better and stronger by those who speak openly, wheather we agree or not. They want Democrats to run against Republicans and reserve the right for the losing half, no matter which, to complain loudly for the next four years, then repeat the cycle with the other side at the next election. There are some who want this to be a right wing, "you have to go to church on Sunday" and some who want a completely secular community where God is never mentioned. However, the vast majority don't want either, just a safe and predictable environment where we don't go back to the days of coat hanger abortions by frightened, depressed women nor one where you are belittled because your money says, "In God we trust."

Most of them, us, you want a civil life with compassion but reasonable choices made by reasonable people. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

One more thing Q.

You mess wth one of us, you mess with all of us.