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pooltchr
11-15-2005, 02:53 PM
I have posted this question on another forum and can't seem to get a straight answer. Maybe someone here can help.

First of all, I don't want to take away anything from Tracie in winning this award. But my question is what is the criteria the WPBA uses to determine who gets this award. I admit, I was shocked that Kelly Fisher wasn't the hands down winner this year. Anyone who can go from an unranked player to number 5 in the world in their rookie year has made some great accomplishments.

It was hinted at on another board that it is not just the results of a player that count. It seems as if it is also a popularity contest of sorts. If a player pi$$es of someone, that may be held against them when it comes time to make the decision. So my question is this.
How is the WPBA player of the year determined? Is it points earned, advancement through the ranks, or a political choice, or something voted on by the other players, or just some of the players?

As I said, not to take anything away from Tracie....but how could Kelly Fisher not have won the award considering the year she had?

Enquiring minds want to know...

Steve

pooltchr
11-16-2005, 08:02 AM
Sarah R was kind enough to answer this on AZB. For anyone that is interested, R.O.Y. is selected by Vicki Paski based on who inspires her the most.

Interesting concept.......

supergreenman
11-16-2005, 08:13 AM
Wow, what a way to pick a candidate. That sounds as biased as the judging of olympic figure skating.

pooltchr
11-16-2005, 08:34 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote supergreenman:</font><hr> Wow, what a way to pick a candidate. That sounds as biased as the judging of olympic figure skating.

<hr /></blockquote>

Good One!!! LOL

HarryDC
11-16-2005, 09:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> Sarah R was kind enough to answer this on AZB. For anyone that is interested, R.O.Y. is selected by Vicki Paski based on who inspires her the most.

Interesting concept....... <hr /></blockquote>


Hello,

Have they changed the rules for rookie of the year? I was given these rules a year ago.

The criteria for rookie of the year in WPBA was:
The highest ranking first year touring pro who participated in the full years tournaments.

If the criteria has changed to someone's openion then Kelly Fisher is my rookie of the year every year from now on. Ga Young Kim the World Champion too.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/Gremlin711/FISHER_KELLY_0002.jpg

Tracy Majors???????????????????? BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Rich R.
11-16-2005, 09:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> Sarah R was kind enough to answer this on AZB. For anyone that is interested, R.O.Y. is selected by Vicki Paski based on who inspires her the most.

Interesting concept....... <hr /></blockquote>
I may be in the minority here, but I can understand why the R.O.Y. is not based on player performance alone.

A young player, like Tracie Hines, scratching her way through regional tournaments, working hard to improve and win qualifying spots for the WPBA tournaments is definitely inspiring.

On the other hand, an established international snooker champion, with a ton of tournament wins, comes to this country to play 9-ball, simply because she can not make a living playing snooker in her home country. She is expected, by many, shoot right to the top of the WPBA and take over the number one slot on tour. She wins a few tournaments and rises only to number 5. Yes, this is an accomplishment, but, no, it is not inspiring.

JMHO.

HarryDC
11-16-2005, 10:11 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> Sarah R was kind enough to answer this on AZB. For anyone that is interested, R.O.Y. is selected by Vicki Paski based on who inspires her the most.

Interesting concept....... <hr /></blockquote>
I may be in the minority here, but I can understand why the R.O.Y. is not based on player performance alone.

A young player, like Tracie Hines, scratching her way through regional tournaments, working hard to improve and win qualifying spots for the WPBA tournaments is definitely inspiring.

On the other hand, an established international snooker champion, with a ton of tournament wins, comes to this country to play 9-ball, simply because she can not make a living playing snooker in her home country. She is expected, by many, shoot right to the top of the WPBA and take over the number one slot on tour. She wins a few tournaments and rises only to number 5. Yes, this is an accomplishment, but, no, it is not inspiring.

JMHO. <hr /></blockquote>

Hi Richie,

I respect your openion as much as Vickie's but in my openion
Tracy isn't inspiring to me. She puts me to sleep! Save the soft soap because there are thousands of lady players out there as good as Tracy and very few as good as Kelly and Ga Young.

Rich R.
11-16-2005, 11:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote HarryDC:</font><hr> I respect your openion as much as Vickie's but in my openion
Tracy isn't inspiring to me. She puts me to sleep! Save the soft soap because there are thousands of lady players out there as good as Tracy and very few as good as Kelly and Ga Young. <hr /></blockquote>Harry, you are missing the point.
IMHO, this has nothing to do with being a talented player. I won't argue that Kelly is talented. We all know she is. IMHO, Ga Young has the potential to dominate the WPBA similar to the way Allison and Karen have done. However, both of them were champion players before coming to this country. For them to achieve champion status in this country, in the WPBA, is more expected than inspiring.
Again, JMHO.

Eric.
11-16-2005, 12:01 PM
Hey Harry,

Are you still posting on AZB as "Tiffpoolbum"?


Eric

pooltchr
11-16-2005, 01:23 PM
Rich,
I think you may be the one missing the point.
When Kelly came over here, the WPBA did not recognize her accomplishments for anything. She was still required to participate in the regional tours and win qualifiers in order to play on the WPBA. They didn't just make her a pro because she was one in Europe. She had to earn her way into the tour just like any other player. I think it's pretty inspiring that a 7 time world champion doesn't expect any special treatment. She came over here with a few hundred bucks and did what she had to do to work her way toward the top. Number 5 on the WPBA list in a year is pretty darn inspiring when you have to start at the bottom just like everyone else.

In NASCAR, the rookie of the year is the rookie with the most points at the end of the year. That, to my little brain, seems to be a reasonable way to make the decision.

I am a big fan of the WPBA. They have done a great job putting their tour together and promoting it. I admire all the players for their efforts. But I really think they dropped the ball on this one.
Steve

HarryDC
11-16-2005, 02:11 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Eric.:</font><hr> Hey Harry,

Are you still posting on AZB as "Tiffpoolbum"?


Eric <hr /></blockquote>

Hello Eric,

Are you still pretending to be a pool player?
The topic is WPBA Rookie of the Year. A little off topic aren't you?

Kim and Tiff are two of my best friends and great players too! SEE! /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/Gremlin711/KIM_TIFF_001.jpg

You got to get out of the house more and get a life. No better way than supporting WPBA Area Tours

HarryDC
11-16-2005, 02:19 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> Rich,
I think you may be the one missing the point.
When Kelly came over here, the WPBA did not recognize her accomplishments for anything. She was still required to participate in the regional tours and win qualifiers in order to play on the WPBA. They didn't just make her a pro because she was one in Europe. She had to earn her way into the tour just like any other player. I think it's pretty inspiring that a 7 time world champion doesn't expect any special treatment. She came over here with a few hundred bucks and did what she had to do to work her way toward the top. Number 5 on the WPBA list in a year is pretty darn inspiring when you have to start at the bottom just like everyone else.

In NASCAR, the rookie of the year is the rookie with the most points at the end of the year. That, to my little brain, seems to be a reasonable way to make the decision.

I am a big fan of the WPBA. They have done a great job putting their tour together and promoting it. I admire all the players for their efforts. But I really think they dropped the ball on this one.
Steve
<hr /></blockquote>

Steve,

I totally agree! Tap Tap Tap!!!!!!

Eric.
11-16-2005, 03:29 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote HarryDC:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Eric.:</font><hr> Hey Harry,

Are you still posting on AZB as "Tiffpoolbum"?


Eric <hr /></blockquote>

Hello Eric,

Are you still pretending to be a pool player?
The topic is WPBA Rookie of the Year. A little off topic aren't you?

Kim and Tiff are two of my best friends and great players too! SEE! /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif



You got to get out of the house more and get a life. No better way than supporting WPBA Area Tours <hr /></blockquote>

Ooookay...if you say so, Harry.

You still haven't answered the question, the silence is deafening...


Eric

SRpool
11-17-2005, 01:05 AM
Harry, I know you don't care for me so please don't turn this into an argument with me in anyway. I do agree that Kelly would have been the obvious choice for the award. But in the past few years the player chosen has not been the best player. The award changed and was non-existant for many years (96-02). I do believe it used to be something that was voted on, but I am not sure because I wasn't involved in the WPBA at that time. And to correct you, Ga Young would not be up for the Rookie of the Year award. She was up for the award in 2003 or 2004. I'm sorry that you don't feel that Tracie is the deserving winner, but she really is. She has been trying hard for some time and is consistantly doing well in tournaments. Kelly is a great player and person as well and also very deserving. As I have stated before, she has my utmost respect.

Sarah

HarryDC
11-17-2005, 03:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SRpool:</font><hr> Harry, I know you don't care for me so please don't turn this into an argument with me in anyway. I do agree that Kelly would have been the obvious choice for the award. But in the past few years the player chosen has not been the best player. The award changed and was non-existant for many years (96-02). I do believe it used to be something that was voted on, but I am not sure because I wasn't involved in the WPBA at that time. And to correct you, Ga Young would not be up for the Rookie of the Year award. She was up for the award in 2003 or 2004. I'm sorry that you don't feel that Tracie is the deserving winner, but she really is. She has been trying hard for some time and is consistantly doing well in tournaments. Kelly is a great player and person as well and also very deserving. As I have stated before, she has my utmost respect.

Sarah <hr /></blockquote>

Good Morning Sarah,

Up for my jog or was it my blog? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Mike Hurst gave me the rules for rookie of the year by E-mail in 2003. If it's changed then I am sorry as no one was told. Just looks bad and adds a lack of credibility to the WPBA and women's pool.

I just feel Kelly and Ga Young are discriminated against because they are over achievers. They gave up there home life, came to this country and qualified like everyone else. I think itís a shame they donít get the respect they deserve I also think with no written standards for Rookie of The Year the award is changed from the objective to the subjective. I hope the new President of the WPBA (Kim White) and the membership moves to restore the old fair rules.

I have been a sports fan all my life and the best player in most sports receives the awards not the best sob story. As far as I have seen everyone works hard to make a living out of WPBA most with an outside Job. I like and respect all of you players but I have my favorites like all sports. Hope I didnít start an argument. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Sincerely,

Rich R.
11-17-2005, 04:09 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> Rich,
I think you may be the one missing the point.
When Kelly came over here, the WPBA did not recognize her accomplishments for anything. She was still required to participate in the regional tours and win qualifiers in order to play on the WPBA. They didn't just make her a pro because she was one in Europe. She had to earn her way into the tour just like any other player. I think it's pretty inspiring that a 7 time world champion doesn't expect any special treatment. She came over here with a few hundred bucks and did what she had to do to work her way toward the top. Number 5 on the WPBA list in a year is pretty darn inspiring when you have to start at the bottom just like everyone else.

<font color="red">Steve, IIRC, Allison Fisher and Karen Corr also had to qualify. The fact is, all of the prior accomplishments by Kelly, Allison and Karen were in snooker. That has nothing to do with playing pool in the WPBA. Actually, IMHO, I like the fact that none of them were given special treatment and they had to qualify, "just like everyone else."

As far as making the sacrafice to move to this country, to play in the WPBA, I believe the list of players who have done the same thing is pretty long. Again, Kelly did nothing that many others haven't done before. </font color>

In NASCAR, the rookie of the year is the rookie with the most points at the end of the year. That, to my little brain, seems to be a reasonable way to make the decision.

<font color="red">The WPBA is not NASCAR. Every organization has the right to choose a rooky of the year in their own fashion. Frankly, there are a lot of things NASCAR can learn from other organizations, but I don't see them changing either. </font color>

I am a big fan of the WPBA. They have done a great job putting their tour together and promoting it. I admire all the players for their efforts. But I really think they dropped the ball on this one.
Steve
<hr /></blockquote> <font color="red">Steve, you have the right to disagree with whatever happens in any organization. I doubt you will find one where everyone agrees with everything they do. In this case, the WPBA, for whatever reason, picks a "Rookie of the Year" and, as supporters, we have to live with their decision, whether we agree or not.

Frankly, I have to wonder if you would have been so outspoken on this, if Kelly wasn't sponsored by the company paying your salary. </font color>

pooltchr
11-17-2005, 06:34 AM
Rich,
Yes, the WPBA has the right to choose anyone they want for any award, and do it any way they see fit. I'm just pointing out the fact that it seems strange that it is left up to one person to arbitrarily pick one player for this award.

Yes, Kelly is sponsored by Fury, and yes, I do work for Sterling. This has allowed me to come to know Kelly on a much more personal level than I would have otherwise. Knowing her, having watch her work religously on her game to improve, work at a not very glamerous job at Sterling when she isn't on tour, and playing with her, I am even more impressed with her character, committment, and humility. This lady is a 7 time world champion, and you would never know it unless you were a follower of the sport.
I also know several other WPBA tour players on a closer level than just that of a casual fan. Some of them, who shall remain un-named, also feel that Kelly was overlooked for reasons that aren't clear.
As I stated before, I am not trying to take anything from Tracie's accomplishments. I simply felt that an explanation of the selection process was in order. Sarah was kind enough to give an explanation. It's not one that I agree with, and perhaps this discussion will encourage the WPBA to reconsider their selection process. Maybe not. But at least the subject is getting some attention.
If nobody says anything, there is no possibility of change.

Again, congratulations to Tracie. And to the WPBA...I hope you will take this whole thing into consideration in the future.
Steve

Rich R.
11-17-2005, 07:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr>Yes, the WPBA has the right to choose anyone they want for any award, and do it any way they see fit. I'm just pointing out the fact that it seems strange that it is left up to one person to arbitrarily pick one player for this award.

<font color="red"> Well Steve, it is, what it is.
Personally, I believe that the ROY award is more of a ceremonial type thing and I don't put a lot of value in it. Yes, it is nice on the resume, but, in the end, it is tournament wins that really count. There are probably a dozen ladies who could have been given that title, all for different reasons. </font color>

Yes, Kelly is sponsored by Fury, and yes, I do work for Sterling. This has allowed me to come to know Kelly on a much more personal level than I would have otherwise. Knowing her, having watch her work religously on her game to improve, work at a not very glamerous job at Sterling when she isn't on tour, and playing with her, I am even more impressed with her character, committment, and humility. This lady is a 7 time world champion, and you would never know it unless you were a follower of the sport.
I also know several other WPBA tour players on a closer level than just that of a casual fan. Some of them, who shall remain un-named, also feel that Kelly was overlooked for reasons that aren't clear.

<font color="red">I have no doubt that Kelly will get her fair share of awards, in the future. She is a talented lady. I just don't happen to think that this particular award is worth all of the fuss. </font color>

As I stated before, I am not trying to take anything from Tracie's accomplishments. I simply felt that an explanation of the selection process was in order. Sarah was kind enough to give an explanation. It's not one that I agree with, and perhaps this discussion will encourage the WPBA to reconsider their selection process. Maybe not. But at least the subject is getting some attention.
If nobody says anything, there is no possibility of change.

<font color="red">I would hope that an oranization, like the WPBA, would be constantly rexamining all of the things they do, in order to improve. </font color>

Again, congratulations to Tracie. And to the WPBA...I hope you will take this whole thing into consideration in the future.
Steve <hr /></blockquote>
<font color="red">I honestly don't know a lot about Tracie, but if Sarah says she deserved this award, that is good enough for me. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif </font color>

facets58
11-18-2005, 07:59 AM
Hi all...

I am a little confused about the ROY award myself. The qualifications for it used to be the highest ranked "NEW" touring pro at the end of that current year (just before nationals, which is when the award is given out)... when did it become something they voted on? Oh well... not in the loop /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Kelly got her touring pro status in the first tournament of this year and then won the tourney in San Diego 2 tournaments later.

Tracie is a very good player and a strong competitor... hmmm tough choice.

lol much easier when it was a numbers thing... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Mike Hurst

facets58
11-18-2005, 08:06 AM
Hi Sarah,

I'm kinda bummed i coundn't make the last 3 events this year. I miss everyone (except Stacy /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif )

Getting ready for a roadtrip right now... VEGAS BABY!!!

It's Stacy's b-day today /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif... so I get to drive, massage, take her to dinner etc etc... it's fun being me.

Anyway, I will see you in San Diego... whenever that is.

tc
Mike

SRpool
11-18-2005, 08:47 AM
Yeah, I haven't seen you in a while Mike. You aren't making the trek to Rocky Mount? I know, you would miss out on the bright lights of the casino and all, but you would get to see us girls.

Anyway, wish Stacy happy birthday for me. Sounds like you really have a tough job this weekend.

Take care,
Sarah

HarryDC
11-19-2005, 09:14 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote facets58:</font><hr> Hi Sarah,

I'm kinda bummed i coundn't make the last 3 events this year. I miss everyone (except Stacy /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif )

Getting ready for a roadtrip right now... VEGAS BABY!!!

It's Stacy's b-day today /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif... so I get to drive, massage, take her to dinner etc etc... it's fun being me.

Anyway, I will see you in San Diego... whenever that is.

tc
Mike <hr /></blockquote>

Mike,

Happy Birthday to Stacy, (belated) hope you get a chance to rest over the holiday. I hope you know I posted the rule because you are in the know. Thanks for everything I owe you!


Mike and Stacy are two of the hardest working people in pool. Stacy in my openion has the most beautiful playing fashion's on the WPBA tour. Photo of Mike and Stacy relaxing
between matches at Sam's /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/Gremlin711/MikeHurst_Finish.jpg
MIKE &amp; Stacy

I hope you understand I don't work for anyone associated with pool and I first saw Kelly Fisher in England 4 years ago when the snooker gentlemen on the challenge tour cheated
her out of her chance at the men's tournament at Jester's. I like Steve have more than just a fan's interest in seeing her being recognized for her great accomplishments. I know and admire her chracter and courage.

Sid_Vicious
11-19-2005, 09:48 AM
What's Mike's last name? I know him from somewhere, NPR. Thanks...sid

Snapshot9
11-21-2005, 12:59 PM
I have held back as long as I could. Any award usually has
'objective' reasons or guidelines behind any award. Look to
any sport for such awards and they are first based upon
performance within the sport, being a good role model, etc..
Rookie of the year is nothing more than Most Valuable Player
for a Rookie year. Considering that, performance and excellence in the sport should almost totally define it, and
if there are no character or personality flaws for the person, then they deserve it. One person determining who
should get this award without being able to define how the decision is made is UNTHINKABLE. That is like making forecasts for a company for the coming year with no objective reasons or details to back it up! I once got
the MVP award in an advanced 9 ball league. Everyone in
the league was a tough competitor, but I would have been
greatly upset if someone that had LESSOR stats than me would have gotten the award. To me, if you award it to someone
who was not the #1 performer for the year, you are UNDERMINING the whole purpose of the award in the first place.

facets58
11-21-2005, 02:01 PM
Tks for the nice picture Harry /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif. You do great work in photoshop lol.

Stacy and I had a good time in Vegas... she lost a little $ playing poker and slots, i came out even. It was a good trip overall /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

If you have any other pics of Stacy would it be possible to e-mail them to me? She liked the one of us at the bar as well. I have high speed so the bigger pics are fine. You can send it to my &lt;&lt; netzero.net &gt;&gt; acct. Just use my ccb username.

Tks again,
Mike

PS: Sid, if you are luking it's Hurst /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif