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The_Doctor
11-18-2005, 11:07 AM
I'm trying to learn more about the process of going from standing up to being down on the shot. Are there any recognised techniques for this? Does it even need a technique? I've noticed that some players keep their feet in the same position and just kind of squat into the shot. Some players step forward with one leg and then bend in and some just bend in. Does anyone have any thoughts on this aspect of the game? <pre><font class="small">code:</font><hr> </pre><hr>

wolfdancer
11-18-2005, 11:25 AM
I'm not sure just what you are looking for here in a response, but.......
Jimmy Reid advocates holding the cue at "port arms" seeing the shot "in the air", or while standing up....then step into, and drop down into your stance.
Bert Kinnister had the idea of lining up as though you were going to shoot the shot one-handed, which he believes, places you in the correct position,....then use your normal two handed setup.
I'm sure that many others here can give you a much better reply......if you watch the pros though....you'll see a lot of different styles....so I don't think there are hard and fast rules on a stance.Just get comfortable, and as long as it allows you to stroke straight through the cueball, and have a good sighting on the O.B......

Scott Lee
11-18-2005, 11:28 AM
Poolplayers make four shooting decisions while they are standing up, before they get down on the shot. They are,
1) Where to aim on the CB; 2) where to aim on the OB (so that it goes into the pocket); 3) what speed stroke to shoot the shot; and 4) what general area to leave the CB in afterwards. The time alloted for this sequence is different for everyone. Some players can make the decisions almost subconsciously, similtaneously, and/or immediately. Others may take a minute or more, before they are ready to stand down on the shot. Most players have, or develop, a set pattern of stance, grip, bridge distance, etc., which they automatically go into as they put their bridge hand down on the table. Then comes the pre-shot routine, which puts you into shot mode, and allows your brain to catch up with your arm. Timing is a critical element in producing a repeatable stroke, and accurate, reproducable results on the table. Hope this helps.

Scott Lee

ceebee
11-18-2005, 11:29 AM
Bert Kinister's "Mighty X" video is a great assisting workout for developing a straight stroke

randyg
11-18-2005, 12:28 PM
Ceebee: How so?.....randyg

The_Doctor
11-18-2005, 02:45 PM
Its not the end stance that I'm interested in particularly its the physical process between being stood up and being in the stance that interests me. I suppose I was wondering it anyone had ever put any thought into this. Snooker players (if right handed) step their right foot to the line of the shot then begin to bend at the hips and place their left foot out to the side moments before their bridge hand hits the table. They then continue to lean forward as the right knee remains straight and the left knee bends. Some players then begin swinging the cue backwards and forwards as the bridge hand slides up the cloth into position. If this isn't really really something that players think about then knowing that helps me too. Thanks very much for your posts.

wolfdancer
11-18-2005, 03:40 PM
Seems like that would work for pool.....
I never thought about it, but I can see where it could be an important part of the pre-shot routine.
I'll try to focus on that...and thanks for bringing the topic up.....

SpiderMan
11-18-2005, 05:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote The_Doctor:</font><hr> I'm trying to learn more about the process of going from standing up to being down on the shot. Are there any recognised techniques for this? Does it even need a technique? I've noticed that some players keep their feet in the same position and just kind of squat into the shot. Some players step forward with one leg and then bend in and some just bend in. Does anyone have any thoughts on this aspect of the game? <pre><font class="small">code:</font><hr> </pre><hr> <hr /></blockquote>

There are no doubt many approaches for this, and as you noted some folks don't seem to consider it at all.

For me, one very important aspect of being comfortable when down is having my feet the correct distance from the shot. That way, my bridge length is right and my weight is not overly biased forward or back.

I begin by laying the cue on the line of the shot, with the tip near the CB. Next I position my feet in my standard stance, using the cue stick to measure the distance.

For my particular stance and physique, if I am standing comfortably upright with my feet in shooting alignment, and my right hip bone touches the butt of my pre-aligned cue about two inches from the bumper, all I have to do is bend over and extend my bridge hand. I will be comfortably over my shot with the correct bridge length, and looking straight down the line of the shot.

The trick is discovering that "nock point", similar to an archer touching the thumb of his release hand to a particular point on his face. He then knows that the shot will go exactly where he's looking. For me, the "nock point" is my hipbone at two inches from the cue's bumper.

If I need to tweak my aim, I'll scoot my feet almost imperceptibly. Never adjust aim by leaning, or by changing the stick/body relationship. If you find yourself tweaking aim a lot, then your setup routine should be tweaked instead.

If you watch me, I will do this methodically on most shots where I am bridging in the middle of the table. If I'm in dead stroke I may abbreviate the process somewhat.

Fran Crimi
11-18-2005, 09:07 PM
Yes, absolutely. I teach and play the same way you just described. First, straddle the line of the shot with both feet to view it. Take your first step into the shot by stepping with your right foot(if you're right handed) in the line of the shot(which was originally between both feet when you were in standing position). Place left foot at least shoulder width away, slightly forward...toe of right foot to instep of left foot. (Point both toes slightly outward to secure the hip position.) The player leans to the right and back as player brings his body to the cue (which he placed over his right foot)---resulting in leaning the bottom half of your body back while your torso is leaning forward which puts the player in balance, particlarly if he stands low to the shot.

The biggest mistake I've seen in American pool books is the concept of weight being evenly distributed. Wrong. That only puts you in balance if you're standing erect. We don't shoot pool standing erect.

You won't find a lot of people in this country who preach specific approaches. I think it's one of the most important aspects and very underestimated in it's importance. This approach varies slightly when the player shows a dependence on a cross-dominant eye.

Fran

randyg
11-20-2005, 07:18 AM
Well stated Fran!....SPF-randyg

HALHOULE
11-20-2005, 08:27 AM
WELL, I SURE MUST BE DOING IT ALL WRONG. I JUST LEAN DOWN AND AIM A TO B, AND IT GOES IN ALL THE TIME. BORING, ISN'T IT?

Fran Crimi
11-20-2005, 10:21 AM
Randy,

I needed to find reference points for students trying to find their foot placement, so I invented the toe-to-instep concept. It's one of my teaching mantras, just like SPF is yours. All are welcome to use it...Just don't forget where it came from. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I'm sure you have your own well-established pre shot routine anyway.

Fran ~~~oops...this was meant to be posted under Randy's reply.

ras314
11-20-2005, 12:19 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> Poolplayers make four shooting decisions while they are standing up, before they get down on the shot. They are,
1) Where to aim on the CB; 2) where to aim on the OB (so that it goes into the pocket); 3) what speed stroke to shoot the shot; and 4) what general area to leave the CB in afterwards. Scott Lee <hr /></blockquote>

Ah, the oral quiz I flunked. Wouldn't be so bad but it is on tape so I get to see it every time I watch the video. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I see several of the WPBA ladies stand straight up looking at the shot and then just flop over at the hips to get down on the shot with the legs still straight. If I tried that they would be hunting a stretcher to haul me out of the place.

dave
11-21-2005, 12:55 PM
You describe the same systematic approach that I use to stance. I just wanted to add that the stance setup is NOT something that you do BEFORE your pre-shot routine (implied in a different post by someone else). It should be PART of your pre-shot routine. as you suggest. If it's not an inherent step in your pre-shot routine, then you're not consciously thinking about it each time and then the routine lacks consistency. Your post reminded me of that point. Thanks.