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9 Ball Girl
11-21-2005, 09:35 AM
This isn't the real America
By Jimmy Carter

JIMMY CARTER was the 39th president of the United States. His newest book is "Our Endangered Values: America's Moral Crisis," published this month by Simon & Schuster.

November 14, 2005

IN RECENT YEARS, I have become increasingly concerned by a host of radical government policies that now threaten many basic principles espoused by all previous administrations, Democratic and Republican.

These include the rudimentary American commitment to peace, economic and social justice, civil liberties, our environment and human rights.

Also endangered are our historic commitments to providing citizens with truthful information, treating dissenting voices and beliefs with respect, state and local autonomy and fiscal responsibility.

At the same time, our political leaders have declared independence from the restraints of international organizations and have disavowed long-standing global agreements — including agreements on nuclear arms, control of biological weapons and the international system of justice.

Instead of our tradition of espousing peace as a national priority unless our security is directly threatened, we have proclaimed a policy of "preemptive war," an unabridged right to attack other nations unilaterally to change an unsavory regime or for other purposes. When there are serious differences with other nations, we brand them as international pariahs and refuse to permit direct discussions to resolve disputes.

Regardless of the costs, there are determined efforts by top U.S. leaders to exert American imperial dominance throughout the world.

These revolutionary policies have been orchestrated by those who believe that our nation's tremendous power and influence should not be internationally constrained. Even with our troops involved in combat and America facing the threat of additional terrorist attacks, our declaration of "You are either with us or against us!" has replaced the forming of alliances based on a clear comprehension of mutual interests, including the threat of terrorism.

Another disturbing realization is that, unlike during other times of national crisis, the burden of conflict is now concentrated exclusively on the few heroic men and women sent back repeatedly to fight in the quagmire of Iraq. The rest of our nation has not been asked to make any sacrifice, and every effort has been made to conceal or minimize public awareness of casualties.

Instead of cherishing our role as the great champion of human rights, we now find civil liberties and personal privacy grossly violated under some extreme provisions of the Patriot Act.

Of even greater concern is that the U.S. has repudiated the Geneva accords and espoused the use of torture in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay, and secretly through proxy regimes elsewhere with the so-called extraordinary rendition program. It is embarrassing to see the president and vice president insisting that the CIA should be free to perpetrate "cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment or punishment" on people in U.S. custody.

Instead of reducing America's reliance on nuclear weapons and their further proliferation, we have insisted on our right (and that of others) to retain our arsenals, expand them, and therefore abrogate or derogate almost all nuclear arms control agreements negotiated during the last 50 years. We have now become a prime culprit in global nuclear proliferation. America also has abandoned the prohibition of "first use" of nuclear weapons against nonnuclear nations, and is contemplating the previously condemned deployment of weapons in space.

Protection of the environment has fallen by the wayside because of government subservience to political pressure from the oil industry and other powerful lobbying groups. The last five years have brought continued lowering of pollution standards at home and almost universal condemnation of our nation's global environmental policies.

Our government has abandoned fiscal responsibility by unprecedented favors to the rich, while neglecting America's working families. Members of Congress have increased their own pay by $30,000 per year since freezing the minimum wage at $5.15 per hour (the lowest among industrialized nations).

I am extremely concerned by a fundamentalist shift in many houses of worship and in government, as church and state have become increasingly intertwined in ways previously thought unimaginable.

As the world's only superpower, America should be seen as the unswerving champion of peace, freedom and human rights. Our country should be the focal point around which other nations can gather to combat threats to international security and to enhance the quality of our common environment. We should be in the forefront of providing human assistance to people in need.

It is time for the deep and disturbing political divisions within our country to be substantially healed, with Americans united in a common commitment to revive and nourish the historic political and moral values that we have espoused during the last 230 years.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Copyright 2005 Los Angeles Times |

Sid_Vicious
11-21-2005, 10:03 AM
Thanks Wendy. Jimmy Carter was, IMSO the one president in my lifetime who had the most Christian, humanistic caring for the job he held. For him to pronounce church and state in "unimaninable" description, should mean something to all of us. A dollar to a dougnut says the righties here will flash the Democrat label, but I'll challenge anyone to attack Carter's liberal nature, unless of course you wish to jab at someone for their desire to make America better for every economic class of people here, not just the rich. Good read 9BG...sid

Fran Crimi
11-21-2005, 11:41 AM
I posted this before...If it wasn't for the Patriot Act, we would have had another 9-11 in NYC. We were a mere two days away from having our bridges and tunnels blown to smitherines by terrost bombers, but it was the Patriot Act that enabled our law enforcement agencies to find and search the premises of these terrorists, as well as question them without an attorney, leading us to the other locations with bombs ready to go.

We were SO CLOSE to disaster. I just can't believe people like Jimmy Carter are still running around screaming about our Civil Liberties.

I also can't believe any New Yorker who could have easily been killed that day, would support such a statement.

Carter claims we've made no sacrifices as a country. He's referring to raising taxes. He conveniently overlooks the Patriot Act. It's a sacrifice, but it's already proven to be a necessary one.

His Presidency is nothing to brag about. He personally set the stage for many of the problems we have today. For example, he thought that making friends with North Korea would bring them around. He was wrong. All it did was buy them time to develop their nuclear weapons.

Here's another viewpoint about Jimmy Carter:

Another viewpoint (http://www.nationalreview.com/interrogatory/hayward200407260700.asp)

Qtec
11-21-2005, 07:49 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I posted this before...If it wasn't for the Patriot Act, we would have had another 9-11 in NYC. We were a mere two days away from having our bridges and tunnels blown to smitherines by terrost bombers, but it was the Patriot Act that enabled our law enforcement agencies to find and search the premises of these terrorists, as well as question them without an attorney, leading us to the other locations with bombs ready to go.
<hr /></blockquote>

What bombs? I havent heard of this. Do you have any more info- a link maybe?

Q

Fran Crimi
11-21-2005, 08:53 PM
Strange...I just did a search but maybe it was too broad...something like 500,000 results came up. I went through about the first 100 or so and they were either about the attempt related to the 1993 WTC plot or the recent subway threat.

It happened maybe 2 or 3 years ago. They caught one guy and got him to tell on his partners who they found holed up in tenements assembling the bombs.

Fran

9 Ball Girl
11-21-2005, 10:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr>It happened maybe 2 or 3 years ago. They caught one guy and got him to tell on his partners who they found holed up in tenements assembling the bombs.

Fran <hr /></blockquote>I actually remember that. I think the one guy they found was either living in Queens or in Brooklyn.

Gayle in MD
11-21-2005, 11:35 PM
Thanks Wendy,
I have read an excerpt from President Carters' new book. He is certainly a President of honor and integrity, and his concerns match my own concerns regarding very unamerican changes that I see happening to our country.

I don't think any American could be proud of knowing that our leaders have become soft on torture, and that the Vice President has told the Congress that the President will veto anything which demands that we follow the Geneva Convention, and insures that Americans will not torture prisoners.

I hope we can rid ourselves of this "War at any Cost" "Conservative" bunch in the next election, although, the results of this administration may have already destroyed our country as we knew it.

thanks for the post....I intend to get the book....

Gayle in Md.

eg8r
11-22-2005, 05:51 AM
[ QUOTE ]
What bombs? I havent heard of this. Do you have any more info- a link maybe? <hr /></blockquote> Q, you did not hear about it because you like to skip over any articles that show W's policies as successes.

Now, for the record, I am mostly against the Patriot Act. I think we are giving too much security to the government. Who knows when the government decides to broaden their view and misuse the Patriot Act.

eg8r

Chopstick
11-22-2005, 06:02 AM
Another wonderful message brought to you by the makers of the Iran Hostage Crisis and Desert One. Carter always was a putz. Now he just can't seem to shut up. If we really wanted to hear anythong more from him we would have re-elected him.

Qtec
11-22-2005, 07:17 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Q, you did not hear about it because you like to skip over any articles that show W's policies as successes.
<hr /></blockquote>

I cant find it mentioned anywhere. You would think such a great success would have been paraded on the media. [ just like the WMDs would have been- if they ever had found one]

I think its a myth or it was just a first [false] report.

Q..its not mentioned in the Govts 10 successes that the WH published. You might not know this but when the US first said that Al Z was in Iraq for treatment, they said he had had a leg amputated!

Fran Crimi
11-22-2005, 08:58 AM
On the contrary, Q, if it was a fake, the media would have been all over it. There's article after article exploiting the recent subway scare as a "fake."

Fran

9 Ball Girl
11-22-2005, 09:15 AM
In order to avoid a constitutional amendment battle, the Neocons have accepted the following modifications to the pledge of allegiance:

I pledge allegiance
to the flag of
the corporate states
of America
and to the Republicans for
which it stands
One nation, under debt
easily divisible,
with liberty and
justice for oil.

Qtec
11-22-2005, 09:36 AM
[ QUOTE ]
On the contrary, Q, if it was a fake, the media would have been all over it.<hr /></blockquote>

Sorry Fran, false logic.
They werent all over the famous 'sixteen words'- that is until Wilson opened his mouth!
They werent ball over the 'wrong'intelligence that the Govt was spouting in the lead up to the Iraq invasion.

If the Govt had ANY solid proof of what they claim it would be all over the media.
Remember the 'rescue' of Pvt Lynch? That was all over the media and it was a publicity stunt.
The US press is not independant, not anymore.
Judith Miller?

Q

Sid_Vicious
11-22-2005, 09:37 AM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif Good one...sid

SnakebyteXX
11-22-2005, 10:00 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> On the contrary, Q, if it was a fake, the media would have been all over it. There's article after article exploiting the recent subway scare as a "fake."

Fran <hr /></blockquote>

Sometimes the media is 'all over' something even if it isn't a fake.

NY Subway Warning (http://www.snopes.com/rumors/nysubway.asp)

Qtec
11-22-2005, 10:02 AM
In fairness to Fran, she already mentioned that!
You obviously didnt read her post.

Q

Fran Crimi
11-22-2005, 10:24 AM
Well, I give up Q. I can't find anything on it. Maybe you're right that it was an initial report that may have changed. I think it would be a pretty far stretch to say the report was intentionally contrived. We would have heard about it. Doesn't change my opinion of the Patriot Act, though, with or without the incident.

I know I'm not crazy...Wendy remembers it too.


Fran

Gayle in MD
11-22-2005, 10:31 AM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Chopstick
11-22-2005, 10:38 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> Well, I give up Q. I can't find anything on it. Maybe you're right that it was an initial report that may have changed. I think it would be a pretty far stretch to say the report was intentionally contrived. We would have heard about it. Doesn't change my opinion of the Patriot Act, though, with or without the incident.

I know I'm not crazy...Wendy remembers it too.


Fran <hr /></blockquote>

I saw the guy on TV. He had the chemicals for making the bombs in his apartment. He had some more components in a maintenance closet in the subway. For every one thing that you hear about there's twenty that you don't because of security reasons.

It's easy to sit back and judge people for thier decisions but the only real fact is, nobody in the general population has access to a fraction of the information that they base their decisions on.

Chopstick
11-22-2005, 10:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr>

I know I'm not crazy...Wendy remembers it too.

Fran <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">Well there's these guys. </font color>

Trial Opens in NYC Subway Bomb Case

By RICHARD PYLE
.c The Associated Press

NEW YORK (AP) - An immigrant from Egypt testified Monday about how he arrived in the United States to look for work, but instead discovered a plot to bomb New York subways.

The key government witness was among the first called in the case against Gazi Ibrahim Abu Mezer, 24, and Lafi Khalil, 23, both of Palestinian descent.

Police raided their apartment early July 31, just hours before a purported suicide attack planned for a busy Brooklyn subway station.

Abu Mezer and Khalil were wounded in the legs. Officers said they fired when the pair struggled and one of them "lunged" to grab a pipe bomb concealed in a knapsack.

The bomb - four metal pipes filled with black powder and wrapped with nails, bullets and a trigger device with four toggle switches - and a second device made of pipes filled with matchheads were dismantled by bomb squad experts.

U.S. District Judge Reena Raggi ruled that prosecutors could use FBI mockups to show that the larger bomb was a lethal device, but barred a videotape of a simulated device exploding.

Abdel Rahman Mosabbah, 29, had lived in the apartment only 12 days after arriving in New York from Egypt, and was outside with police when the raiders entered.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Bernadette Miragliotta said Mosabbah contacted police soon after Abu Mezer had shown him two pipe bombs and a letter to the U.S. State Department threatening to explode the bombs in public places unless certain demands were met.

Miragliotta did not describe the demands to jurors. Officials have said they involved the release of six Arabs imprisoned in the United States and Israel for terrorist acts.

The prosecutor said Abu Mezer called the bombs his "first message" and "second message," and exulted over news of a terrorist bombing that killed and injured several people in Jerusalem.

"Today there is a jihad (holy war) in Jerusalem, tomorrow in New York," she quoted him as telling Mosabbah.

She said Mosabbah called 911 but couldn't make himself understood in limited English. So he went several blocks to the targeted subway station and managed to convince two police officers to help.

Abu Mezer's attorney, Jan Rostal, scoffed at Mosabbah's actions, suggesting he had invented a phony "suicide bomb" scenario in hopes of collecting from a State Department "Heroes Reward Program" that offers up to $4 million for tips on terrorism.

The program is widely promoted in the Middle East - including Egypt, where Mosabbah worked as a program manager at the "Voice of the Arabs" radio station.

Rostal did not dispute Abu Mezer's passion for the Palestinian claim of "oppression" by Israel, but said it was not a crime to believe fervently in something.

"We walk around with our ingrained hatreds, we talk about them to friends and we mutter them to ourselves, but they don't make us killers," Rostal said.

The pair are charged with conspiracy to use and carry a "weapon of mass destruction," which carries a penalty of up to life in prison.

AP-NY-07-06-98 2034EDT

---

Chopstick
11-22-2005, 10:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr>

I know I'm not crazy...Wendy remembers it too.

Fran <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> And these guys... </font color>

2 Arrested in Alleged NYC Subway Bomb Plot

NewsMax Wires
Saturday, Aug. 28, 2004

NEW YORK -- Two men have been arrested in connection with an alleged plot to bomb a subway station in midtown Manhattan, sources said early Saturday.

At least one of the men may have an affiliation with a terrorist organization, according to two law enforcement sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity. The sources said the group in question was not believed to be al-Qaida.

Story Continues Below

Attorney Tom Dunn said his client, whom he identified as James L. El Shafay, faced a charge of conspiracy to damage the subway. The second suspect was not immediately identified.

The men appeared to be acting independently, and there was no evidence that the alleged plot to bomb the subway station at 34th Street was an attempt to disrupt the Republican National Convention, which is taking place a block away, the sources said.

The two men tried get explosives to bomb the station but did not succeed in obtaining any, the sources said. There was no timeline for the plot, which was first reported by WNBC early Saturday.

The men were arrested Friday, and were expected to face charges in federal court in Brooklyn. Spokesmen for the New York Police Department and the U.S. Attorney's office in Brooklyn did not immediately return calls for comment early Saturday.

© 2004 Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Chopstick
11-22-2005, 11:01 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr>

I know I'm not crazy...Wendy remembers it too.

Fran <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">There was another one that went off... </font color>

the device, which detonated around 8p.m. Monday on a staircase on W. 43rd St. leading to the A, C and E trains.

<font color="blue"> The hoax is covering up the real events. The point is that it has happened more than once in the past and it will happen again. </font color>

SnakebyteXX
11-22-2005, 11:01 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> In fairness to Fran, she already mentioned that!
You obviously didnt read her post.

Q <hr /></blockquote>

Beg to differ - I DID read her post (it was pretty short afterall) and my response was intended to support her assertion not attack it. Let me spell it out for you: Sometimes the media won't or doesn't get it right the first time. In the aftermath of the NYC subway threat there may in fact have been some outlets that labelled the threat a 'fake' when in fact it was not. The Snopes link was intended to show that in the course of time the truth will usually come out one way or the other.

OTOH: I have little doubt that the media and hence public sentiment may be prone to governmental manipulation. Some feel that there is ample evidence that this is the case:


[ QUOTE ]
Is Press Cowed By Terror Warnings?

Each week we invite someone from the outside to weigh in with their thoughts about CBS News and the media at large. This week, we invited Craig Crawford, columnist for Congressional Quarterly, on-air analyst for MSNBC, CNBC and CBS’ “Early Show” and author of a new book titled, “Attack The Messenger: How Politicians Turn You Against The Media.” As always, the opinions expressed in “Outside Voices” are those of the author, not ours and we seek a wide variety of voices. Here’s Craig’s take:

Pardon my skepticism at the breathless warnings on Thursday of yet another “specific threat” to our safety – in this case, the danger to New York City subway riders. This one could be quite real, and I don’t necessarily quarrel with that.

But I worry at how the news media seems to feel forced to take these dire warnings at face value despite the pattern of politicians provoking these episodes at suspiciously opportune moments. Most memorable was the time last summer when we heard warnings of terror attacks on the East Coast – announced just as the Democrats wrapped up their national convention in Boston and sent presidential nominee John Kerry on the road for what they hoped would be a high-profile launch of his general election campaign.

It later turned out that the terror alert that overshadowed Kerry’s launch was based on outdated intelligence, raising suspicion that it was done for political reasons and had little to do with public safety.

Yesterday we heard about possible attacks in New York just hours after the President delivered a tough-talking speech about the dangers we face from terrorists. And the subway story stepped on breaking news that White House political boss Karl Rove would again testify to a Grand Jury. How convenient!

No one can prove whether there is political meddling in terror alerting -- although former Homeland Security chief Tom Ridge seemed to suggest the possibility months after he left office, indicating that he believed the White House sometimes got too involved in micro-managing the alert system.

Whatever the truth, the public should give the news media more running room to critically question the motivation and timing of these alerts. Yet there is a sense among many in the news profession that doing so would open them up to attack. At least in the first wave of coverage of these announcements, the news reports tend to be as breathless and ominous as the politicians delivering them.

Sure, we don’t want to discount a threat that might be real and leave citizens vulnerable to danger. But there is also danger in the potential abuse of terror warnings and the crying-wolf syndrome that might set in, causing Americans to tune out alerts when they most need to be heard. Look at the demise of the color-coded alert system. It was basically scrapped because the public came to regard it as overused and silly, just more fodder for late-night comics.

The news media should be aggressive and skeptical from the outset about the possibility of manipulation in these moments, so that public officials are not tempted to play games with terror threats as yet another news management tool.

Instead, we have an environment that spooks reporters and their bosses off this trail, especially when the alerts are first announced, because they know that the politicians will attack them for being callous, or worse, treasonous.

But if the public stops buying politically-motivated attacks on the media, we could do our job and the truth might have a better chance.

I wrote about this phenomenon in my new book (insert shameless plug): “Attack The Messenger: How Politicians Turn You Against The Media.” In a subchapter entitled “Let Us Be Rude Again,” I ask news consumers to stop holding it against us when we pursue an unpopular line of questions. And I urge news bosses to stay strong when faced with the need to report stories that might stoke public anger at the media. Letting politicians bully us from doing our job does not serve the public. It only serves the politicians.

Even more disturbing to me in yesterday’s subway warning was New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s comment that a news outlet had gotten the story two days earlier but agreed to withhold releasing it until the government gave the green light. Perhaps Bloomberg’s position on this will turn out to be credible, but his claim that the extra time was needed for law enforcement to handle this threat seems worth questioning.

The result was that a news media outlet was persuaded to join a conspiracy of silence until the government was ready to announce the news, which happened to coincide with White House strategy for Bush’s speech and also just so happened to serve as a neat distraction from Rove’s latest bad news.

Perhaps there was nothing nefarious going on in this case. But as things stand, it is very difficult for the media to initially explore these specific threats to make sure we are not being duped. I don’t see how that makes us any safer.

-- Craig Crawford

<hr /></blockquote> web page (http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2005/10/07/publiceye/entry924555.shtml)

Qtec
11-22-2005, 12:04 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Beg to differ - I DID read her post (it was pretty short afterall) and my response was intended to support her assertion not attack it. Let me spell it out for you: Sometimes the media won't or doesn't get it right the first time. In the aftermath of the NYC subway threat there may in fact have been some outlets that labelled the threat a 'fake' when in fact it was not. The Snopes link was intended to show that in the course of time the truth will usually come out one way or the other.
<hr /></blockquote>

If you do some research, you will find that this attack [ real or unreal] was NEVER connected to Al Q! In most of the articles I read they say there wasnt even a bomb! Just because 2 complete strangers are accused of something dosent mean that its a terrorist plot! Whats also troubling is that it occured around the time of the GOP convention. You know the one where they interned 1,000s of protesters.
Its strange that you say the Govt might not want to scare the pop by revealing the whole truth, when in the lead up to the invasion, no worst case scenario was too outrageous for the Govt to expound.
Remember the 'Mushroom cloud' scenario?
Its a threat when it suits the Govt.

Q