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06-26-2002, 12:26 AM
Hey Fran a buddy of mine has a poster.. it has about 20 women pool pros on it and one of them is you.... hes got about 15 of the signatures on it but does not have yours.. I know its kind of early to be asking this but would you mind if he brought it to vegas next year to get your autograph on it as well.. I havnt told him that I know you on here but im sure he would be thrilled to get another picture checked off.

06-26-2002, 04:59 PM
....

06-26-2002, 05:23 PM
Sure, be happy to...under one condition, that it's not this year's poster. I will not sign the poster due to the fact that the picture is the worst I have ever seen of myself and I was not given any opportunity to change or approve it. We were told in no uncertain terms that we had to have new pics taken by the photographer of the WPBA's choice AND we had to hand over 50 bucks each to do it. I remember when prior to this administration we were not personally charged for this. My pic from last year was great and I was very pleased with it. So, if your friend's poster is this year's, I'm afraid I can't sign it on a matter of principle.

Fran

Barbara
06-26-2002, 05:25 PM
Hey Fran!!

I was the successful bidder on a 1979 calendar featuring the Women Pros at that time. You're one of them!! I can't wait to get it!!

Barbara~~~woohoo!!

06-26-2002, 09:12 PM
im not sure what year it is ill find out

06-27-2002, 02:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Fran Crimi:</font><hr> We were told in no uncertain terms that we had to have new pics taken by the photographer of the WPBA's choice AND we had to hand over 50 bucks each to do it.

Fran <hr></blockquote>

Let me get this straight. The WPBA organise a photographer to take pictures of their players to publicise their events... and charge the players $50 for the priviledge? Surely you jest?

Gayle in MD
06-27-2002, 07:20 AM
Hey Fran,
Is Jan M. also charging you a finders fee for the photographer, check to be made out to hubby's company, LOL. Sorry, just couldn't resist! LMAO!
GAyle in Md

06-28-2002, 09:46 AM
Fran turns out it is this years poster so I guess you wont be signing it. I do however fail to see how you not signing a poster for a fan would have any impact whatsoever in regards to making a point with the association that had the poster done. I hope you reconsider your position on this, but to each his/her own I guess.

06-28-2002, 12:29 PM
I'm really sorry for your friend who probably wanted all the signatures, but he's not the only one on the short-end in all this. Several players were very unhappy with their photos, and yes, I'm the only one willing to do something about it, so I guess that makes me look like the bad guy.

Not the first time. Ha!

Fran

PQQLK9
06-28-2002, 02:55 PM
I'm a Fran Crimi fan and don't think that you look like the bad guy, literally, figuratively or photogenically.

Barbara
06-28-2002, 03:01 PM
Boy oh boy! Isn't this board the pip or what?

I don't blame you, girl. Would you sign that calendar that I'm expecting? Florence Fuller is even in it!!!

Barbara~~~still waiting for it...

06-28-2002, 03:49 PM
Sounds to me like a modern day "Picure of Dorian Gray" Who's your Wotton? jjd

06-28-2002, 05:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Fran Crimi:</font><hr> Sure, be happy to...under one condition, that it's not this year's poster. I will not sign the poster due to the fact that the picture is the worst I have ever seen of myself and I was not given any opportunity to change or approve it. We were told in no uncertain terms that we had to have new pics taken by the photographer of the WPBA's choice AND we had to hand over 50 bucks each to do it. I remember when prior to this administration we were not personally charged for this. My pic from last year was great and I was very pleased with it. So, if your friend's poster is this year's, I'm afraid I can't sign it on a matter of principle.

Fran <hr></blockquote>

Tell me it ain't so,Fran.

Say for instance a little young lady(sorta like Loree Jon within her family's congratulatory page in this month's BD)asked you to sign the poster ... you would not?

Happy with the WPBA administration or not,don't you think that you have an obligation to fulfill as a player representing the organization?BS

06-28-2002, 05:42 PM
I understand your need to stand by your convictions, and I applaud your willingness to "do something about it", but I don't see how involving an innocent third-party accomplishes anything. I'd respectfully suggest that a more fitting way to "do something about it" and to express that displeasure would be refusing to sit for the new photos next time or refusing to pay for them. Then you would making your point to the people who need to hear it.

It's not making any point to deny an autograph to a fan (or at least it's not sending the message I'm sure you had in mind) and I'd hazard an educated guess that it's of little solace for him just because he isn't the only one on the short-end. That's a weak justification.

I'd like to suggest a more tempered way to make your point....why not send the requester an autographed picture of your choosing with the suggestion that he tape this picture onto the poster in place of the offensive picture. Then you don't injure the admirer and you level your point where it's most effective.

06-28-2002, 06:12 PM
That sounds to me like it would be a fair solution to this problem... I must admit I am a little upset about Frans stance in this.

Chris Cass
06-28-2002, 07:26 PM
Hi Downtown,

In Vegas after I sweat a match of Fran', she won by the way. Two fans all but fell over her, trying to get an autograph. She was the only one, that stopped, smiled and kindly oblieged(sp). I saw another pro there that walked around them and waved no.

She was also with an entourage of about 6 people. After signing the autogragh, she introduced me to each and everyone of them. A gentleman suggested they go out to dinner. As I stood there and they all started to walk down the hall, Fran stopped. She turned to me and asked, "Chris, will you join us?" I made an excuse and went on my way. I'll never forget how nice, it was to be treated special, by a person of celebrity as Fran. She acually, made me feel important. Thanks Fran, I've been wanting to tell you that.

I guess once a knight alway's a knight.

C.C.~~I never have a bad hair day. lol

06-28-2002, 10:22 PM
I do appreciate your suggestion, however I am not denying an autograph to a fan. I'm refusing to sign a poster. If Downtown's friend would like me to send an autograph, I'd be more than happy to and he can tape it to the poster under my picture.

Fran

06-28-2002, 11:12 PM
That wasn't me, Chris. I think I was over watching the Master's finals. LOL

But just in case it was...thank you for that.

Fran

jjinfla
06-29-2002, 06:10 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Chris Cass:</font><hr> Hi Downtown,

In Vegas after I sweat a match of Fran', she won by the way. Two fans all but fell over her, trying to get an autograph. She was the only one, that stopped, smiled and kindly oblieged(sp). I saw another pro there that walked around them and waved no.<hr></blockquote>

Hey Chris, who was the other pro? She probably didn't want to wear out her wrist signing the one or two autographs that some fans, now x-fans, wanted. Then later they wonder why no one cares about them. And why they can't get sponsors. Don't forget your Armour All Chris. Wouldn't want your joints to get rusty. Jake

Chris Cass
06-29-2002, 09:16 AM
Hi Jake,

Well, what gave you the idea it was a female pro? It was a male but I'm not going to say who. The fan has to realize these events are nonsmoking and they get like 5 mins to take a smoke break or a bathroom break or just time enough to clear there heads, while in the match. I'm sure it was just that.

Rusty? hahahahaha You kill me Jake.

Regards,

C.C.~~I use shark oil.

06-29-2002, 11:14 AM
Some time ago you posted the news that Ray was trying a break shaft of a different wood. What was the result? I ask because I don't see anything about it on his site.

07-03-2002, 10:36 AM
A bad picture? Of YOU? NEVER!!! GF

Chris Cass
07-03-2002, 10:44 AM
George,

Where have you been? You've got the whole board asking, Where's George Fels? Glad your back home again.

Regards,

C.C.

07-03-2002, 03:19 PM
Thank you, Chris. It started innocently enough with my decision to take a few weeks off. That decision became involuntary when my son came home from college, trashed my Netscape (and my inbox, and my bookmarks) and emptied the trash, trying to set up his own version of Explorer. He screwed up somehow, leaving me with something that moved like a brontosaurus for my e-mail and woldn't grant me Internet access at all. Finally I went to Luby and downloaded a version to a CD and brought it home. So I'm back.

Have a great holiday, everybody! GF

07-03-2002, 07:08 PM
GEORGE!!!! I'm so happy to see you posting again! When I first came to this board and saw your posts I thought, how cool that someone who writes for the mag would come online and chat with everyone. Then the Dr D flap disappeared, and you with it! I was so disappointed! Especially since you were one of the few who would 'talk' to me when I first came on. LOL Well, I'm happy to say that I'm still here, everyone talks to me (whether they like me or not LOL) and now you're back! Who says life ain't just grand? /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Tom_In_Cincy
07-04-2002, 08:30 AM
Lorri,
Dr. D's flap is still in the works as far as we know. I am assuming that Dr. D and her lawyers are still working on a plan. No news from that incident.. since the incident. I wonder what is going on..

Always entertaining to read your posts and I like your ever changing by-lines..

ted harris
07-04-2002, 10:13 AM
Fran,
What does the fan network have to do with the politics of you and the WPBA? a bad picture? and how do you think your point is getting across to the people you are upset with when all you are doing is singing to the chorus? Your problem is with the WPBA, photographer, whomever, and not the FANS that support and look up to YOU. Good luck, and happy July 4th!

ted harris
07-04-2002, 10:36 AM
Semantics?
Now there's a great one to tell the grandchildren.

Grandchild: Pop Pop, why is that woman's signature taped to the poster when everyone else signed it?
Grandfather: Well, let me see if I can make you understand. Fran Crimi is the player that has the taped signature on the poster. She was displeased with the photographer, picture and organization that represented Women's Pro pool at the time this picture was taken. The reason she was mad was because the WPBA made her pay $50- to have the picture taken, and was then not happy with the results. So, she wouldn't sign the picture on a "matter of principle" in her own words. Do you understand?
Grandchild: Yeah! But why didn't she sign it?

Fran, is this really the legacy you want to have? Because that is what you will have to every fan that asks for your signature on that poster.

07-04-2002, 10:42 AM
Hello Ted. We've never communicated as far as I can tell, and I hope your hostility isn't an indication of what's to come.

No, I am not hurting any fans by not signing the poster. If you read the entire thread you would see that I am only too happy to provide an autograph to anyone who wishes. The only thing I will not do is sign this year's poster. I will gladly sign last year's and hopefully next year's. I will sign t-shirts, cue cases, other pictures, you name it. I've even signed someone's arm. Hey, that's what he wanted.

So if I'm willing to provide the fan with an autograph, please explain where I am hurting them by not signing their poster? Is it because without my signature, the resale value isn't as high because it's not complete? Because if they just want the poster for themselves, they can easily tape my signature under my picture.

So, again I'm asking you, where is the harm to the fan?

Fran

ted harris
07-04-2002, 11:47 AM
Fran,
There was no hostility in my post, just another viewpoint in the form a highly possible scenario. I think most of the people here and in the outside world would agree.
To us, it is a picture of the loveliest, most important women in pool. It obviously has a much different meaning to you. If you do not like the organization that represents you, use whatever means you have available at your disposal in a democracy. Vote, campaign, change the situation, make a difference, run for election, be the president of the WPBA, but please don't take it out on the voters(fans). Go get 'em. Hell, I might even vote for you.
And I think most of us are saying is that we will support you or not, based on your actions. Some of us will believe that you are a person with principles that stands up for what she believes in, and others will think your hostility over your picture is misdirected.
From their posts, it looks like there are others within this group that are in agreement. IMHO, I think you will find that as this thread goes on, you will find a lot of people feel the same. That is all. Just trying to help! Good luck!

JimS
07-04-2002, 11:50 AM
I admire a stance taken behind principles. Having taken that stance, to hell with others opinions and to explaining.

JimS
07-04-2002, 11:54 AM
I admire a stance taken on principle(s). Having taken that stance, to hell with others opinions and to further explanations or defending that stance.

ted harris
07-04-2002, 11:57 AM
LMAO.

Tom_In_Cincy
07-04-2002, 12:02 PM
Ted,
Ok, your opinion has been stated, and it has merit.
Your opinion about your "highly possible scenario" is stretching it just a bit.. in my opinion..

Fran, has made a decision, your opinion is welcome here in this forum. Your statements about "why", "how" and "alternative actions" for her protest is also noted.

Thanks for sharing this.

I think what Fran is doing is a very personal decision, she could have just said NO and left it at that, but she decided to explain her reasons. That is a lot more than would be expected for anyone in this particular issue.

Of course it also generated a lot of responses, (30+ so far) and others sharing their opinions.

For the record, I am in favor of what Fran is doing.

07-04-2002, 12:14 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: JimS:</font><hr> I admire a stance taken on principle(s). Having taken that stance, to hell with others opinions and to further explanations or defending that stance. <hr></blockquote>

yup

dan

JimS
07-04-2002, 12:39 PM
Geeez!! I missed the perfect change to use my all-time fav-o-RITE philosophical quote....."The hottest places in hell are reserved for those, who in a time of moral crises, maintain their neutrality". Dante (I used to be a RR conductor. I got on a caboose one night about 5 in the morning after having been out smoking pot and drinking all night...and just a couple of days after having ingested some Owlsley acid, opened the desk lid and found that quote written on a time sheet. It sure made for an interesting "trip". /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif )

07-04-2002, 12:51 PM
personally I think Fran is being very childish about this... my friend has a poster with almost all if not all signatures on it except fro frans.... its kind of like a thorn in his side not to have it so to speak and frans reason for not signing it is that she does not like the picture thats on it. This has nothing to do with her protesting the wpa as there is no way that the wpa will be affected by her decision not to do this... I have seen fran in real life and I find this picture to be quite indicative of what she looks like and I dont think it is an offensive picture by any stretch of the imagination. I think Fran is using poor judgement here.

ted harris
07-04-2002, 01:21 PM
...duly noted.

Retardo
07-04-2002, 01:41 PM
How vain, how lame, how typical.

07-04-2002, 01:45 PM
Hold on a second folks! I think we've lost the original thrust of Fran's argument somewhere. My understanding of her original post was not that she didn't like the picture and wouldn't sign it, but rather that she didn't like the other issues at hand. Fran was forced (along with all the other girls on the poster) to use a photographer not of her choosing, at a price determined by someone else, for a picture she hates and cannot, as per the powers that be, retake. You know, even schools have 'retake' days for photos that don't come out to a client's liking. And what's up with that anyway? It seems to me that more and more, people who provide services are taking the attitude that if a client doesn't like the outcome of the goods or services they recieve, tough luck, I'm not fixing it and you'd better pay me or I'll take you to court!? How the hell does that play? in my opinion, photos are a very personal thing. I for one, would not want a $50 photographer entrusted with the image the world is going to get of me. In my area, if you're paying less than $200, you're going to come out looking like a hag. But beyond that, if I have to pay for a photo, I damn well better either like it, or have the option of reshooting it. I think the WPBA was out of line in not providing their players with a reshoot opportunity, though I can understand that there are reasons one might want to dictate a particular photographer be used ( such as concept or 'look' )

07-04-2002, 01:49 PM
Tom,
I know. D and I hang sometimes. Actually, she's my steady Friday afternoon shooting partner. (I look foward to Fridays /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif ) Thanks, I'm kinda enjoying the revolving tag line too! I really like this latest one, it's definately a contender /ccboard/images/icons/laugh.gif I just hope people don't misinterpret it as saying I think they don't use their minds enough! LOL

07-04-2002, 01:50 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: JimS:</font><hr> Geeez!! I missed the perfect change to use my all-time fav-o-RITE philosophical quote....."The hottest places in hell are reserved for those, who in a time of moral crises, maintain their neutrality". Dante (I used to be a RR conductor. I got on a caboose one night about 5 in the morning after having been out smoking pot and drinking all night...and just a couple of days after having ingested some Owlsley acid, opened the desk lid and found that quote written on a time sheet. It sure made for an interesting "trip". /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif ) <hr></blockquote>

i think i remember that from "fear and loathing on the c.b &amp; q".

say hi to hunter for me.

dan...i suspect you'll remember the c.b.&amp;q and, of course, the zepyrs.

07-04-2002, 02:01 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Retardo:</font><hr> How vain, how lame, how typical. <hr></blockquote>

No Retardo, none of the above. Although the audience is small now, Fran is right for taking some sort of stand on how she is represented to the public. Can you imagine Britney Spears allowing Pepsi to release a commercial of her with no make-up on? (Scary) People in the public eye have a right to some sort of control over their image. That's what photographic releases were concieved for. Now admittedly, Fran's public is as nothing compared to Britney's, but that shouldn't mean she forfeits the right to control her own image. Fran doesn't have a real big problem with how she looks (and I for one think she looks just fine) but she does have a problem with being dictated to unfairly. I agree with her stand, and have no comment on her method.

Barbara
07-04-2002, 02:19 PM
Very well put, Lorri. And I agree with Fran on this one. To not allow a reshoot is just wrong.

Barbara

jjinfla
07-04-2002, 02:33 PM
Fran,
Quote: Is it because without my signature, the resale value isn't as high because it's not complete? Unquote

So then the real answer is that you are worried that he might resell it and make a ton of money. So, put a value on what you think your signature is worth and charge that amount. Then he will either pass on it or pay you for it.

And you expect us to believe that you paid $50 to be in the picture and then didn't properly prepare yourself for the picture? And now you take it out on a fan?

Actually, in the world of collectibles when the so called stars/heros sign pictures it actually decreases the value of the item. Especially in the world of baseball cards. Because a lot of those cards were not signed by the players but by his manager/trainer/or whoever. Jake~~~waiting for the poster to appear on the board.

stickman
07-04-2002, 02:34 PM
Fran, I understand your displeasure at having to pay for a likeness that doesn't meet your approval, especially one that will be widely distributed. I know I would be displeased. Since I have never been in a similar situation, I can't fault your form of protest. I don't know how I would react, but think I would dislike autographing a portrait of myself that I didn't like. Since you are not refusing your fans autographs, I find no fault in what you are doing. As a former portrait photographer, I understand how important the consumer's approval is. Although the camera doesn't lie, it can be used to emphasize either the more flattering or less flattering features of the subject. A good photographer will try to emphasize the flattering. This is also why most photographers take several photos, so that the consumer can choose the portrait that they feel flatters them the most. For a $50.00 setting fee, I would expect a choice, and the option of a retake. I respect your right to do as you see best. You are not being disresrectful to your fans, if anything, a fan who would insist that you autograph a likeness of yourself that you didn't like is being disrespectful of you.

07-04-2002, 02:50 PM
Hey JJ,
I picked up on that too, but I think it had more to do with frustration than any real issue Fran has. I don't think the majority of the pros (Fran included) would be upset about their autographs selling for big bucks on the 'net. If anything, it should be seen as a measure of status.
As far as being prepared for a shoot, there's a big gap between preparedness and outcome. Photographers vary as widely in their talent and results as any other profession you care to name. Even Giselle can take a bad photo you know. (Giselle is the Victoria's Secret model, for those of you wondering)
Fran is not taking her frustration out on any fans. She has plainly stated that she will sign anything except that poster. She is denying no one her autograph, nor should she. It is up to us whether we will join her and pursue the matter to the folks responsible or not. In the time it takes to post a response here, you could send an EMail to Jan or Kelly at the WPBA.
Fran isn't the bad guy here and should not, in my opinion, be treated as such. Regards!
Lorri

07-04-2002, 03:35 PM
everyone else but Fran signed it tho Lorri

jjinfla
07-04-2002, 04:02 PM
Lorri,
Better go over to Rich's post where he put the link to the poster, you may change your mind. Anyway it is not a group photo but a bunch of individual photos that are grouped together to form a poster. The lighting must have been terrible because most of the gals look bad. I doubt that Lee is too happy with it either. But Vivian, Loree Jon, Ewa and Gerda really look great. Even an amateur photographer could have done better. And why weren't several pictures taken and if they didn't come out retake them? Who was the photographer?
The poster is for sale on the link as are individual 8x10's. 16 8x10's go for $20.00 unsigned. 16 8x10's that are signed go for $40.00. So the girls are getting $1.25 for their autograph. Only problem is that shipping is $5.95. The WPBA should just put all the photos on ther site and let people pick out the ones they want to buy. If any. Jake

JimS
07-04-2002, 04:12 PM
Why shore I do! That's who I was working for at the time...well, perhaps "working for" is too strong a statement for what I did......they paid me for the time I spent there would be a much more accurate statement...the good ole Chicago...BURLINGTON....and Quicy RR...now the BNSF. By the way I still have the pictures of Kraypo Park in my camera undeveloped. I'll get the roll of film done one of these days and send you the pics of the park.

Voodoo Daddy
07-04-2002, 05:33 PM
Who are we to judge? Why should any of us have any say in someone else's choices? If all of you put this much effort in your own pool games maybe your quality of life would be better...geez. Sign it, dont sign it...get over it people. Bill Russell NEVER signed anything for anyone, EVER!! Does that take away from his status as a NBA icon, I think not. Some of you will say I borrowed CC's Suit of Armour....I didnt, I have my own! No wonder George Fels and Grady rarely posts anymore or Bob Jewett stays away from here all together. Those in the public eye cant please everyone and threads like these prove it.


Voodoo

07-04-2002, 05:39 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Voodoo:</font><hr> When everyone in the room roots against you , you know you're special

Voodoo <hr></blockquote>


I knew I was special here thanks for reaffirming it for me voodoo

07-04-2002, 06:02 PM
Okay , I hear what you're saying. Everyone kept silent at the players meeting at Valley Forge too. Not a single person asked why their vote had been invalidated by Dr. D's dismissal. Were they right? Or do they simply fear retribution? Or are they engaging in a "Go along, get along" type of attitude? It's very easy to choose the path of least resistance, that's why it's so aptly named (LOL). It's much harder to take a stand against something you see as wrong, and make waves about it. Fran is woven of some pretty strong moral fiber, so it does not surprise me that she would be the one to raise the issue. I know that you are disappointed, but sometimes we need to bury our own disappointment in favor of a more equitable situation for all involved parties.

07-04-2002, 06:10 PM
Jake wrote: "And you expect us to believe that you paid $50 to be in the picture and then didn't properly prepare yourself for the picture? And now you take it out on a fan?"


Well, you see Jake, here's the story on that. Of course I prepared myself for the photo. Thought I did a pretty good job too, since I've been in photo shoots before. However, the WPBA insisted that we see their makeup person and hair person just prior to the shoot. The makeup person totally changed my look and reddened up my face. I kept asking him, "Don't you think I look a little too red?" He just said no, not at all, I know what I'm doing becuse the lighting will make it look softer. Sure, right. And the hair person put all this goo in my hair, pushed it all back and made me look like a different person... and told me with confidence that this was the best look for me. You can't undo goo without a wash. I tried to fix it back and make the best of it, but there was very little that could be done. Then the photographer didn't pose me. He just said...ok, take a pose. Haha! I never heard anything like that before in my life from a professional photographer! OK, take a pose? Like I'm supposed to be able to see what my pose looks like without being behind the camera?

I'm not the only one this happened to. The whole shoot was a fiasco. I could have done much better on my own but I wasn't given a choice.

I even told the PR person that I wasn't confident at all with the photo shoot and that I'd prefer to use last year's picture if they didn't turn out well. I was told sure, no problem. Weeks later I called again and asked how the photos looked. I was told they turned out great and they were in the process of publication. Nothing I could do at that point.

After I saw the poster, I told them I would have rather had last year's photo used. It was at that point that I was told that was never a possibility because they wanted continuity with backgrounds, etc. So, it was never an option to begin with.

So, all this deception and we're each $50 poorer for it.

Not acceptable. Sorry if it makes you angry but I will absolutely not accept doing business like that.

This is my final word on this and you guys can go on and on all you like. That's the way it will be and hopefully, it won't happen again like that next year.

Fran

07-04-2002, 06:20 PM
Fran, I can't believe that!!!! Not as in I can't believe that, (cuz I can) as in, I can't believe that they've gotten that high-handed and no one is saying anything!! To release a photo without getting the subject's final approval is shocking. What's next, distributing your home and EMail address? Phone numbers? Gee, maybe they'll raise some extra cash by sending you out on 'dates' with the highest bidders.....Well, at least that last one would put them where they belong, eventually. JMO

Barbara
07-04-2002, 06:30 PM
Lorri,

It's called "Micro-Managing". Jan and Kelly are what I call at work with unreasonable, in-your-face-all-the-time managers, "Micro-Furhers" and "Status Nazis".

Barbara~~~~very tired of the "Jan and Kelly" show...

07-04-2002, 06:37 PM
Well, we all know I hate to disagree...(ouch! that's my ear not my cheek!) But I can't agree with you on this one Barb. It's not micro-managing, it's laziness, stupidity, short-sightedness, and greed. Watching the WPBA right now is somewhat akin to watching the older movie stars being pushed aside by the younger ones. Some people just don't know when to call it a career. ( Has anyone seen Marlo Thomas' latest facelift? She should sue.)

Barbara
07-04-2002, 07:10 PM
Lorri,

NEWT lost the PA State Championships because of Kelly Oyama's less than personable skills with the room owner that's been hosting it for the last 7-8 years. Now why was Kelly involved with the room owner when Candi Rego is the Regional Tour Liason? Because Kelly overstepped her boundaries and shut out Candi to handle the Regional Tour Tournaments.

When I tried to reschedule with another room owner, I talked exclusively to Candi. It's a known fact that Kelly and Jan take over everything and anything and finagle things to their taste, including the p***ing off of room owners with their smug attitudes and genuine ineptitude with people skills.

Can't wait until the "Jan and Kelly" show closes.

Barbara

07-04-2002, 07:15 PM
Sorry Barb, I didn't realize we had expanded the scope to include ALL of the F***-ups! LOL I thought we were still on the photo discussion! (Lorri is going to go hang her head in the corner for not keeping up with the discussion. She also hopes her points will be intact when she gets out?) /ccboard/images/icons/laugh.gif

jjinfla
07-04-2002, 08:12 PM
Well Fran, After viewing the poster and hearing your explanation I understand that you have a legitimate complaint. The photography is really bad. So bad that it borders on intentional. Had I taken those pictures most of them would have ended up in the garbage and I would have said the lab screwed up and I had to take the pictures over. I would be embarrassed to charge for them. But it is completely unreasonable for the WPBA to use the pictures (for profit) without getting each person's personal permission. Maybe next time the ladies will stand up for their rights and not sign the release forms prior to seeing the pictures. I wonder how many posters they will sell at $21 each? I still don't understand why the ladies paid $50 to be in the poster in the first place. I would think the WPBA would be paying them. Jake PS I went to the WPBA site and let them know I thought the poster was hideous.

Chris Cass
07-04-2002, 09:58 PM
I don't think you'll give us much choice Lorri. LMAO

Regards,

C.C.~~enjoys your posts.

07-04-2002, 11:34 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: JimS:</font><hr> Why shore I do! That's who I was working for at the time...well, perhaps "working for" is too strong a statement for what I did......they paid me for the time I spent there would be a much more accurate statement...the good ole Chicago...BURLINGTON....and Quicy RR...now the BNSF. By the way I still have the pictures of Kraypo Park in my camera undeveloped. I'll get the roll of film done one of these days and send you the pics of the park. <hr></blockquote>

great. thank you.

dan

07-04-2002, 11:34 PM
Good, I'm glad you did that. There were no release forms, Jake. Techincally, we each own our photos because we paid for the shoot and they needed to get our approval to publish them, especially if we asked to see the photos first, as I did.

But enough about that.

Some history on the poster: Up until two years ago, we used to take group pictures for the poster, which the WPBA paid for, and we were individually responsible for providing our own photo for the program book. Those who didn't have a photo and wanted to use the services of the group photog. were able to arrange a private shoot with him for about $50. But that was always optional. Two years ago, our pres. decided that she wanted to "upgrade" the program book and photos, and she stated that it would be better if all individual photos were to be taken by the same person at the same place. So, instead of the WPBA paying for a group photo shoot, the individual players were told they had to pay for individual shoots and that the photo would be used both for the program book and the poster. No one would be allowed to provide their own photo. Luckily, last year's photographer was excellent. I was very pleased with my photo, I did my own makeup and hair, and no one 'corrected' what I did. The photog, took pains in posing each one of us and did a very fine job.

Personally, I feel the individuality of the photos is what made the program book so interesting in the past. Now they are all uniform, and to me, it doesn't enhance the book at all, not to mention that the WPBA saves money in no longer paying for the group shot.

Fran

07-05-2002, 12:28 AM
If I understand this correctly, Fran's doesn't like what the WPBA did or how they handled this whole photo shoot situation.
Is she doing anything or taking any actions against them to show her displeasure?
Is there anything we could do that would be helpful?
I think they could care less if she signs the posters. I don't think that bothers them or hurts them at all. I don't know if they are even aware of anything.
I don't mean to offend anyone. But personally I think the posters are overpriced. But I am kind of of cheapskate.

07-05-2002, 12:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: Fran Crimi:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt; Sure, be happy to...under one condition, that it's not this year's poster. I will not sign the poster due to the fact that the picture is the worst I have ever seen of myself and I was not given any opportunity to change or approve it. We were told in no uncertain terms that we had to have new pics taken by the photographer of the WPBA's choice AND we had to hand over 50 bucks each to do it. I remember when prior to this administration we were not personally charged for this. My pic from last year was great and I was very pleased with it. So, if your friend's poster is this year's, I'm afraid I can't sign it on a matter of principle.

Fran &lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Tell me it ain't so,Fran.

Say for instance a little young lady(sorta like Loree Jon within her family's congratulatory page in this month's BD)asked you to sign the poster ... you would not?

Happy with the WPBA administration or not,don't you think that you have an obligation to fulfill as a player representing the organization?BS <hr></blockquote>

/ccboard/images/icons/frown.gif really /ccboard/images/icons/frown.gif BS

JohnnyP
07-05-2002, 04:40 AM
I like the one about rolling in the mud with the pig better.

jjinfla
07-05-2002, 06:50 AM
Quote: Good, I'm glad you did that. There were no release forms, Jake. Techincally, we each own our photos because we paid for the shoot and they needed to get our approval to publish them, especially if we asked to see the photos first, as I did. Unquote.

No release forms? That seems odd. But you were going to share in the profits weren't you? Or was it all for the good of the organization? I wonder how many pictures of each girl were taken and who decided on which picture to use in the poster? Probably not the photographer. Usually in group shoots like this the photographer will offer a deal for the original shoot in the hopes of selling packages to each of the girls where he can make his real profit. But in checking the quality of the finished product I doubt many girls took him up on it. My passport photo that I got at Walgreens for $9.95 looks better than most of them. Perhaps you would be wise to stop at a photo studio near you and have him take some photos of you and you can have your own package. I'm surprised that you haven't done that already and have them available for purchase at your pool hall. When a student signs up for some sessions you can present him/her with a personally signed photo. Ray Martin does that. If you don't promote yourself no one else will. Keep in mind that there are plenty of women who would have loved to be included in the poster but they just aren't good enough. Jake~~~can't believe you paid $50.00 for that picture. Probably a $49.25 profit for somebody. And they didn't even have a gun.

07-05-2002, 09:15 PM
I liked that one too! /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif Fear not, we'll have a winner eventually.....

07-05-2002, 09:51 PM
Thanks, Lorri; that's very nice of you to say. It's always good to come back to friends. Have a great weekend! GF