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iacas
11-27-2005, 03:58 PM
I posted this question in the newbie forum (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showflat.php?Board=newbie&Number=211167) before someone told me to come here to post it here... so now I have. Some additional information at the end...

I read this thread (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showflat.php?Board=ccb&Number=210244) about Legacy Billiards and am wondering, basically, WTF? They have to be talking about the same people: http://legacybilliards.com/ .

I'm in Erie, PA and this is my first post here... I'm just starting the information gathering stages of my research. For $3500 (not $1100 as mentioned in that thread), a billiards table retailer near here has Legacy tables that seem pretty nice (the Wyatt). I was told it was 1" slate, solid wood, and the Legacy site itself seems to have a lot of information about their quality: http://legacybilliards.com/table/index.htm .

This isn't an $1100 table, but a $3500 table...

My budget is right there around $3500 - where should I be looking instead if Legacy is so bad? I'm looking for an 8' but probably a 9' table. What retailers are near here?

Balls, cues, and accessories I'd consider outside that $3500, though I would like to get a ping pong table top conversion thingy (if that makes me 100% uncool, just tell me... but my daughter is gonna want the pong top).

So two questions...
1) Is Legacy really that bad? I have to assume of course that it's the same Legacy we're talking about here...

2) If Legacy sucks so bad, what should I be looking at for $3500 (final price - if it lists higher but I can talk down into my range, that's fine too)??

Any and all help is appreciated. Thanks in advance.

P.S. I kind of like the Olhausen with the table ID "01C-413-4E073-708-3FK" if you want to see it. I've yet to find an Olhausen price list, though... For all I know that could be a $12k table.

FastJoey
11-27-2005, 06:38 PM
check the Olhausen site..i bought a new Olhausen 9 ft.table this year and love it...FORGET about what anybody else things about.. cool or uncool about a ping pong table..if u think your family would like it then buy it..enjoy...tell us what you end up buying.....

iacas
11-27-2005, 07:05 PM
Thanks. I've been checking there. May be tough to find a dealer nearby, but I'm sure I can figure something out. Would be nice if I could get a price sheet somewhere... :-)

Scott Lee
11-28-2005, 12:38 AM
Since you have a dealer with these tables nearby, go and see one disassembled. See for yourself if the frame is solid wood or plywood (or worse, particle board). Is the slate backed? That means there should be a 1" thick, 4" wide, solid wood frame around the edge of each slate piece, with a crossbrace in the middle. Check the cushions on one the set up tables. If you can't bounce a ball 4 rails (up, down, up down...both lengthwise and across the table), the cushion rubber quality is not up to snuff. For that kind of money, you should get a quality table that has these, and other points of construction. BTW, you can buy a 9' Diamond Pro from Diamond for about $500 more (plus shipping, unless you drive to Louisville). That would be far superior to the Legacy. Do NOT, under any circumstances, get a ping-pong top to put on your pool table. Get a used ping pong table at a yard sale for $100.

Hope this helps. Ohlhausen tables are good tables too.

Scott Lee

iacas
11-28-2005, 05:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr>Since you have a dealer with these tables nearby, go and see one disassembled.<hr /></blockquote>

I don't know if they'd let me do that, which is reason enough not to shop there, I suppose. For $3500, I can't imagine them selling something that's of such bad quality, but worse things have happened and I'll be avoiding them.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr>If you can't bounce a ball 4 rails (up, down, up down...both lengthwise and across the table), the cushion rubber quality is not up to snuff.<hr /></blockquote>

Is that really a good indicator of rail quality? Seriously?

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr>BTW, you can buy a 9' Diamond Pro from Diamond for about $500 more (plus shipping, unless you drive to Louisville).<hr /></blockquote>

I'd probably need installation (and shipping). I'll add Diamond to the list of folks I'm considering, right along with Olhausen, AE Schmidt, AMF, and Connelly.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr>Do NOT, under any circumstances, get a ping-pong top to put on your pool table. Get a used ping pong table at a yard sale for $100.<hr /></blockquote>

I'm sorry, but that's going to happen - one of those concessions I'll have to make to the wife to get the pool table to begin with. I don't have the extra 200 square feet, and if I take care to put cloths and things down I can't imagine a ping pong top doing much harm. As the wife would say, "non-negotiable."

Thanks for your help. I've been dissuaded from going with Legacy (shame, too, since that's the ONLY one nearby) and persuaded to go with one of FIVE other brands... now I have to narrow it down. I have plenty of time though.

Scott Lee
11-28-2005, 08:39 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote iacas:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr>Since you have a dealer with these tables nearby, go and see one disassembled.<hr /></blockquote>

I don't know if they'd let me do that, which is reason enough not to shop there, I suppose. For $3500, I can't imagine them selling something that's of such bad quality, but worse things have happened and I'll be avoiding them.

<font color="blue"> I don't know why they wouldn't let you check out the construction. Surely they have disassembled tables in the back of the store, or in a local warehouse. You can also check this fairly well, just by getting underneath the table, and looking carefully. </font color>

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr>If you can't bounce a ball 4 rails (up, down, up down...both lengthwise and across the table), the cushion rubber quality is not up to snuff.<hr /></blockquote>

Is that really a good indicator of rail quality? Seriously?

<font color="blue"> Yes, this is a good indicator of rail elasticity. </font color>

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr>BTW, you can buy a 9' Diamond Pro from Diamond for about $500 more (plus shipping, unless you drive to Louisville).<hr /></blockquote>

I'd probably need installation (and shipping). I'll add Diamond to the list of folks I'm considering, right along with Olhausen, AE Schmidt, AMF, and Connelly.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr>Do NOT, under any circumstances, get a ping-pong top to put on your pool table. Get a used ping pong table at a yard sale for $100.<hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> In the $4K range, Diamond will be the top of the line product available to you. </font color>

I'm sorry, but that's going to happen - one of those concessions I'll have to make to the wife to get the pool table to begin with. I don't have the extra 200 square feet, and if I take care to put cloths and things down I can't imagine a ping pong top doing much harm. As the wife would say, "non-negotiable."

<font color="blue"> Well, if you HAVE to have a ping pong top, make sure you have a very sturdy cover for your table, so you don't scratch the top of the rails! </font color>

Thanks for your help. I've been dissuaded from going with Legacy (shame, too, since that's the ONLY one nearby) and persuaded to go with one of FIVE other brands... now I have to narrow it down. I have plenty of time though. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> Good luck! </font color>

Rich R.
11-28-2005, 09:21 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote iacas:</font><hr> I'd probably need installation (and shipping). I'll add Diamond to the list of folks I'm considering, right along with Olhausen, AE Schmidt, AMF, and Connelly. <hr /></blockquote>IIRC, Diamond will give you a fairly good deal on delivery and set up, as long as you are willing to wait until they have a shipment going in your general direction. You may want to look into that.
Diamond does make a great table.

iacas
11-28-2005, 10:40 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr>IIRC, Diamond will give you a fairly good deal on delivery and set up, as long as you are willing to wait until they have a shipment going in your general direction. You may want to look into that.
Diamond does make a great table.<hr /></blockquote>

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr><font color="blue">I don't know why they wouldn't let you check out the construction. Surely they have disassembled tables in the back of the store, or in a local warehouse. You can also check this fairly well, just by getting underneath the table, and looking carefully.</font color><hr /></blockquote>

Thanks. I'll inquire with them what they could do for me. Currently I like the Arkansas of their options...

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr><font color="blue">BTW, you can buy a 9' Diamond Pro from Diamond for about $500 more (plus shipping, unless you drive to Louisville).</font color><hr /></blockquote>

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr><font color="blue">Well, if you HAVE to have a ping pong top, make sure you have a very sturdy cover for your table, so you don't scratch the top of the rails!</font color><hr /></blockquote>

If I'm going to drop $4k on something, I'm going to take care of it. Thanks for the advice.

I'll move Diamond to the top of my list, with Olhausen probably second. I've heard good things about both. Tied for third I'll keep AMF, Connelly, and A Schmidt.

iacas
11-28-2005, 10:52 AM
Derr. By "Diamond Pro" I guess y'all mean one model, the Diamond Professional. The rest they qualify as "Furniture Tables."

http://diamondbilliardproducts.com/The-Professional.htm

The price sheet says this table runs $4300 to $4700...

FWIW, I just got an email from them
[ QUOTE ]
Delivery @ 500.00
Installation UPSTAIRS @ 400.00 (normally 300.00)<hr /></blockquote>

So $4700 + 500 + 400 comes to $5600 now. Eek. That's a stretch... I'm mentioning this thread to the rep who contacted me (Brian Miller), so perhaps he is willing to work with me.

Rich R.
11-28-2005, 11:28 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote iacas:</font><hr> Derr. By "Diamond Pro" I guess y'all mean one model, the Diamond Professional. <hr /></blockquote>
That is the one I would get, if I could.

SpiderMan
11-28-2005, 12:21 PM
Unless you're dead set on having "new", I'd also consider a nice used table. New pool tables seem to depreciate faster than new cars, regardless of mileage.

One of my teammates bought a Gandy Sportsman (about $5,000 list price, new) used and in perfect condition for $600. It cost him about $350 to have it moved and re-covered in his chosen cloth.

Used pool tables are quite the albatross to homeowners trying to get rid of them. Most buyers would rather go to a dealer and buy a retail "package" that includes delivery/setup, when they could buy used and contract the moving. Leaves a lot of potential bargains out there for the smart shopper.

If you're in a rural area you might have less choices. but I'd still consider shopping the classifieds of cities within a hundred miles or so. The setup mechanic will add a little more to drive 100 miles instead of 25, but it may be worth it to you.

BTW, I just did a quick scan of "Craigslist" online classifieds near me and noticed an Olhausen Monarch for $750 (asking price), and an 8' Brunswick for $500.

SpiderMan

iacas
11-28-2005, 12:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr>Unless you're dead set on having "new", I'd also consider a nice used table. New pool tables seem to depreciate faster than new cars, regardless of mileage.<hr /></blockquote>

I'll keep my eyes peeled. I do have the luxury of time on this as the game room wouldn't be done before June/July anyway. Erie doesn't have any real dealers (just that Legacy one, and they're mostly a spa company), so while not quite "the country" as you allude to later, I don't know how lucky I will be in finding a good pool table for someone moving. Oftentimes, people moving out just leave the pool table for the new owners if they want it...

Thanks again for the help. I appreciate it.

Scott Lee
11-28-2005, 01:07 PM
Erie isn't that far from Cleveland or Pittsburgh...both major cities. You might watch the classifieds for the main papers for the next few months (online or at the library)
...or even run your own "wanted - used pool table" ad! Spiderman's right about the 'albatross' thing. One person here in MT I know, had an old GCI advertised for a long time at $2K, with no calls. Then they got close to moving, panicked, and sold the table to a friend of mine for $500. They put new rubber and cloth on it, and it plays great...and they're in it less than $1000!

Scott Lee

damish
11-29-2005, 01:54 PM
Iacas, seeing as how you're in Erie, I'd like to invite you out to North East to Great Lakes Pool &amp; Billiard Academy. I'm one of the owners here, and we have a few extra tables available for sale that are the sames as the ones we use in the room. 9' full-sized commercial tables called Gandy's. We have some disassembled in our pro-shop area, so you can check out the construction as recommended by others in this forum. We also have other merchandise available here that you might need. We're open every day of the week. Feel free to drop me a PM if you like, or call our room at 814-725-2834. Ask for Dan (myself) or my business partner, Chris. We'll be glad to answer any questions for you.

Dan Amish

iacas
11-29-2005, 04:06 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote damish:</font><hr> Iacas, seeing as how you're in Erie, I'd like to invite you out to North East to Great Lakes Pool &amp; Billiard Academy. I'm one of the owners here, and we have a few extra tables available for sale that are the sames as the ones we use in the room. 9' full-sized commercial tables called Gandy's. We have some disassembled in our pro-shop area, so you can check out the construction as recommended by others in this forum. We also have other merchandise available here that you might need. We're open every day of the week. Feel free to drop me a PM if you like, or call our room at 814-725-2834. Ask for Dan (myself) or my business partner, Chris. We'll be glad to answer any questions for you.<hr /></blockquote>

Thanks Dan. I called and talked with Chris today. I'm glad to see that North East now has something to do past 6pm! I'll probably stop out to say hi in the next day or two (or three).