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View Full Version : Are one's Political viewpoints subject to change?



SnakebyteXX
11-28-2005, 10:42 AM
After following the various and sundry political discussions that permeate this forum from time to time I've come to the conclusion that if one is predisposed towards one political party/philosophy or another that that there's a strong tendency not to let facts get in the way.

Political predisposition stands as an information filter through which few unpalatable facts are allowed to pass.

My question is: How many people here have changed their political views and/or opinions based on information that's been posted in this forum? Or information that they've read or seen elsewhere for that matter?

Are there 'Bush Lovers' who've become 'Bush Haters' after seeing all the negative posts regarding his performance while in office? Are there liberals amongst us who have been swayed towards a more conservative viewpoint after reading some of the well written conservative arguments that have been posted here? Are there conservatives who've had their eyes 'opened' by well stated liberal positions?

You get the gist of what I'm asking. Is it possible to win a political argument or influence someone's political viewpoints in this forum or are those members who try just pi$$ing into the wind?


Snake <--thinks that enquiring minds want to know.

wolfdancer
11-28-2005, 12:41 PM
R, you're right of course, as I've said, not so eloquently, in the past.
On the surface, a mere waste of time and bandwidth. As an opportunity to vent, release all the frustrations, by those opposed to GWB, it's cathartic...priceless, as the commercial goes.
For the rightous right, who perceive the enemy to be within,a chance to gloat, that their leader, their party, is in charge...and by labeling those that do not totally agree, ...leftist, liberals, ....with all of the imaginary evils, that they conjure with these names....a chance to feel morally superior.
and that prevents them from going to shopping malls with their second amendment approved assualt rifles,....and
Fortunately, the country has stood the test and prevailed, against the extremists on both sides.
Being labeled a "liberal" is getting to resemble both the inquisition, and the HUAAC hearings......" we know you're guilty, and we'll torture/question you until you admit it"
No, nobody will change their views, nor change their vote. The country is now as polarized, as it was during the Viet Nam war era......Americans against Americans
...But the evil that men do lives on long after they have left office......and we'll be paying for it long after....

eg8r
11-28-2005, 12:50 PM
I think the instances in which I have changed my mind are few and far between.

eg8r

wolfdancer
11-28-2005, 12:54 PM
Eg8r....that I already assumed....but we'll continue to work on you anyway. They got Winston Smith to come around...we'll just have to find your "buttons"

eg8r
11-28-2005, 12:59 PM
LOL, I hear ya. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

supergreenman
11-28-2005, 01:53 PM
This thread reminds me of a scene in a movie where a Male Anarchist was having a friendly debate about politics with a female Republican.

He said Anarchists believe in personal liberties, to which she replied so do Republicans.

He said Anarchists believe in less government, to which she replied so do Republicans.

point after point the found that they agreed with each other......
Till he said..... Anarchist believe that what you do with your uterus is your decision. To which she said "I hate you"

pooltchr
11-28-2005, 01:58 PM
I grew up in the 60's and was pretty much a liberal in my younger days. As maturity came along, so did the realizations that conservative philosophies made more sense.
Steve

Fasteddy7
11-28-2005, 01:58 PM
I think I have. I dont know if its more related to growing older or more information. The problem I see alot is that some people cannot concede points if they are against their partisanship. Another problem is, what do we actually know? The media has become increasingly unfactual (if this isnt a word its a bushism, Im sure). I do enjoy reading different ideas and some of them even make me laugh.

Cueless Joey
11-28-2005, 02:35 PM
Yes.
I used to hate Mrs. Clinton.
I just don't like her now.

Deeman3
11-28-2005, 03:48 PM
Snakebyte:

Yes, I was once a liberal, young and foolish...Shortly after the gender swap operation, I became more rigid, more right wing, more hairy!

I actually demonstrated against the war effort in university but found out I was not in the cafeteria line but a Huey Newton march. By the time I got out of the line I was converted to a passionate flower person by a young blond with Marxist ideals and pink peddle pushers and no visable means of support. Then, slowly, years went by, I grew as a person, the drugs wore off and I decided to think for myself, a big step for a southern boy with a M.E. degree and nine broken bones from football.

I really think we all want some of the same things but can't agree on who and how we get there. I know INSERT A NAME will be liberal until the day they drag her out and hang her or chop her head off as Muslims often do. Ever notice that Muslims kills a hell of a lot more Muslims and "friends" than they do the ememy?

Like that great leader and man of stature once said, "Can't we all just get along, while I beat my Moma senseless and abuse a crack ho...." Thanks, Rodney, we need you now more than ever...

Love the challenge of trying to convert here but it's a fool's dream for all of us.

Deeman
secretly want all my income to go to taxes to rebuild places where stupid people live......

Sid_Vicious
11-28-2005, 04:49 PM
I predict that there's been more repubs switch away from their party since Bush hosed up like he's done. I have many friends and co-workers, staunch Bush supporters in the beginning, who have toned down their vocals in favor of Bush. They've not openly come to the other side either, but sometimes silence in itself says a lot. It is also my opinion that many inside the government on the right, are seeing their next election percentages and they are also toning their unwavering support for this joker. I have never taken sides politically until this mess we are in today, and if I have to call myself liberal, then so be it. I supported Bush after the 2000 election, he was our chosen president, and that's the duty of each one of us. NOW though, I would not follow him toward the light if lost in a tunnel. Things are simply far to f'd up, and Bush has all of the blame imo.

I'll become conservative once we get some rep with more brains than Bush, someone who cares for the common American. Bush does not even rate an "F" in grades. He has established a new bottom below what we've always called an "F".

To answer the question though, "No, the rights defending Bush would not change if they were to personally see the guy stick a knive into an old lady and steal her purse." I never in my life thought I would see regular Americans so selectively blind and deaf to the facts. Sad....sid

wolfdancer
11-28-2005, 08:25 PM
[ QUOTE ]
..secretly want all my income to go to taxes to rebuild places where stupid people live,Alabama, and I thought Texas was hot! <hr /></blockquote>

I noticed you had extra spacing in your last sentance...so I cleaned it up for you!!!

Gayle in MD
11-28-2005, 11:54 PM
Martin, you took the words right out of my mouth. Unlike some here, I have noticed many friends and associates who no longer support Bush. Should we suppose it is only the extreme, totally partisan right who continue to support him, regardless of how lousy his record continues to be, and how incessant his meaningless rhetoric continues to be? We now have even the most staunch supporter of our troops, and this I know for a fact, because I see him often at Walter Reed, and I have read and heard that Rep. Murtha is in constant communication with the commanders in Iraq, and has certainly had his share of feet on the ground war experience, and he calls for a plan for gradual re-deployment. The fact is that the Iraqis will never stand up and fight, never. There will never be enough of them to fight the hornets nest of insurgents, which will lay forever at the feet of George Bush. Yet, the extreme right, closes their eyes to the facts which are now being touted by all but the few remaining who are Bush's yes men. Yet Murtha, a hero, and the first on the hill to throw politics and partisanship to the side and stand up and speak the truth, is called a coward by Schmidt, R. Ohio, and worse by Cheney, whose skin is too think to withstand someone calling his lesbian daughter, a lesbian, during a discussion regarding gay rights! Outrageous.

Murtha is not only a war hero, but a man of truth and courage, who has told the truth in a time when most others continue to lie, and deny the facts, or fail to stand up and tell the truth.

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
11-28-2005, 11:56 PM
Well said! Tap Tap Tap.

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
11-29-2005, 12:34 AM
Deeman, if you wish to say something about me, by all means, don't stoop to veiled insinuations. I am sure you will be a blind supporter of GWB even after thousands more die due to his incompetency, and that of his appointed administration, and until they drag you out and cut your dick off, but I will defend you right to have your dick cut off until the day they cut my head off.

Just because you were one of those jerk flower children, don't put all those who are against this lying sob in the White House in the same category with someone like you who was obviously late in maturing, and getting your $hit together. I didn't spend my youth being smoked up on pot and trying to fit in with a bunch of hippies.

Love,
Gayle

pooltchr
11-29-2005, 06:26 AM
Gayle,
I'm glad to see you don't take things so personal.
Lighten up! It's a political discussion!

Gayle in MD
11-29-2005, 07:24 AM
OHHHHHHHHH, thanks so much for clearing that up for me. I had no idea we were discussing politics. If you really knew me, you'd never post anything like that ot someone like me. Just because I can give as good as I get, doesn't mean that I take any of this to heart, believe me, I am not thin skinned when it comes to what I believe in, unlike some of the others here. Oh BTW, tell me, do those who take the bible literally, take Everything literally?

Gayle in Md.

Fasteddy7
11-29-2005, 07:44 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> I didn't spend my youth being smoked up on pot and trying to fit in with a bunch of hippies.
<hr /></blockquote>

I did and it was fun as hell.

Deeman3
11-29-2005, 08:03 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Deeman, if you wish to say something about me, by all means, don't stoop to veiled insinuations. <font color="blue"> That was not especially for you but, O.K. you would be the 24,452 perosn to be executed. </font color> I am sure you will be a blind supporter of GWB even after thousands more die due to his incompetency, and that of his appointed administration, and until they drag you out and cut your dick off, but I will defend you right to have your dick cut off until the day they cut my head off. <font color="blue"> Gayle, Gayle this sounds, almost like......man hating. I would never want them to cut your's off... </font color>

Just because you were one of those jerk flower children, <font color="blue">Never said I was a jerk flower child, just that I stood in the wrong line. </font color> don't put all those who are against this lying sob in the White House in the same category <font color="blue"> Where did I do this? </font color> with someone like you who was obviously late in maturing, and getting your $hit together. <font color="blue">I do have to fess up to that. I did believe in foolish left wing thinsg for far too long, like most immature people do. It's good to grow out of it. </font color> I didn't spend my youth being smoked up on pot <font color="blue"> How is one "smoked up on pot?" Sounds intersting anyway. </font color> and trying to fit in with a bunch of hippies. <font color="blue"> I didn't ry to fit in, except when I was spyiong for a vast right wing conspiracy. </font color>

Love, <font color="blue"> and kisses, Deeman </font color>
Gayle <hr /></blockquote>

supergreenman
11-29-2005, 08:49 AM
Well it worked. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif I've been converted I'm now a Conservative. The first thing I'm going to do is spend more of other peoples money that I don't have, reduce corporate taxes so they can send jobs overseas so they can make brand name shoes for a dollar then ship them back over to North America to sell them for $100s of dollars to people forced out of good jobs and into multiple service sector jobs (cuz you know you need good shoes to work at mcDonalds all day then burger king all night). Oh yeah, I think I'll start a war too, hmm lets invade Iceland that should be easy. Oh yeah, I think I'll cut benifits to seniors. ( they don't need them they're going to die soon anyways). Kick all those bums off of welfare, (I hear crime pays ask Enron). Health Care? Who needs it, let the rich stay healthy and the poor, well they can stay poor. oh yeah, civil liberties, can't forget that. have to take away free speech to shut those bleeding heart liberals up. They don't need freedom of assembly either (unless we can make money off of it. Permits for protests what a great idea) and privacy who needs it. Freedom of religion... Sure as long as it's right wing flavor of Christianity (gays not allowed)

This is fun, I'm enjoying being a Conservative. Why didn't you try convert me before /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Gayle in MD
11-29-2005, 12:38 PM
Ha ha ha...a masterpiece! Great post! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Gayle in MD
11-29-2005, 12:43 PM
Nice try, Deeman, but we all knew who you meant. As for mine, you're just jealous because it's bigger than yours, LOL.

BTW, you didn't really change parties at all, the left became the right, guess you didn't notice....

Gayle in Md. Love, and kisses to D. too, and hope your pinched nerve is better... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

supergreenman
11-29-2005, 02:07 PM
Thanks Gayle. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Deeman3
11-29-2005, 02:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Nice try, Deeman, but we all knew who you meant. <font color="blue"> Somebody talked! /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif </font color> As for mine, you're just jealous because it's bigger than yours, LOL. <font color="blue"> Somebody else talked... </font color>

BTW, you didn't really change parties at all, the left became the right, guess you didn't notice.... <font color="blue">I do have to agree with you here. /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif </font color>

Gayle in Md. Love, and kisses to D. too, and hope your pinched nerve is better... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote> <font color="blue"> My nerve is a little betteras I'm so frighterned of the surgery, I'm telling myself It's getting better. </font color>

Deeman
still voting for Hillary, I promised Wolfdancer....

pooltchr
11-29-2005, 05:27 PM
If you are talking about the present administration in Washington, no one in their right mind would accuse them of being conservative. They are doing a better job of acting like spend and tax liberals than the spend and tax liberals!
We have gone far too long with only two options in this country. The republicans and the democrats are hardly as different as they would like you to think. I hope they continue to beat each other up until enough people get fed up with them that they seriously start looking around. That's when the Liberterian party will bring them both down.
Maybe that's wishful thinking, but there is no doubt in my mind that this country is in need of some serious changes, and I don't see either of the two major political parties as the ones to get it done.
JMHO
Steve

Deeman3
11-30-2005, 06:07 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> If you are talking about the present administration in Washington, no one in their right mind would accuse them of being conservative. They are doing a better job of acting like spend and tax liberals than the spend and tax liberals!
We have gone far too long with only two options in this country. The republicans and the democrats are hardly as different as they would like you to think. I hope they continue to beat each other up until enough people get fed up with them that they seriously start looking around. That's when the Liberterian party will bring them both down.
Maybe that's wishful thinking, but there is no doubt in my mind that this country is in need of some serious changes, and I don't see either of the two major political parties as the ones to get it done.
JMHO
Steve <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> I agree. If the Liberterians were a real vaible alternative, a lot of us would jump on the bandwagon. Unfortunately, I don't want to just cast conscience votes and have nothing come of them.</font color>

Deeman

Qtec
11-30-2005, 06:39 AM
Spend and tax is called balancing the Budget!
GW spends and gives away money to those who dont need it, runs up a massive defecit that the next Dem Govt will have to tackle.
GW is a conservative, he just lied about fiscal responsibility and The Great Uniter has managed to become the Great Divider!
IMO the US election system is broken. Washington is awash with lobbyists and getting elected these days depends on how much money you have. Its a bad combination.
When Clinton left office, the US had a great standing throughout the world and the US had a surplus- for the first time in decades. Look what you have now.
I never thought Dan Quayle would ever have competition for the dumbest politician on earth...go figure.

Q

DickLeonard
11-30-2005, 07:27 AM
Deeman the only way I would change is if I hit the Mega Lottery Jackpot for 350 million. The next day I might be a Conservative, watching them take my hard earned money away from me. I don't think I could stand that win 350 and get 175 million.####
Deeman instead of complaining about Alabama's heat why don't you move to Saranac Lake NY, then you will know what cold is. It has the coldest temp in the US 98 days a year.

DickLeonard
11-30-2005, 08:10 AM
Eg8r, I had no doubt your mind couldn't be changed your father Gapetto wouldn't have approved.####

wolfdancer
11-30-2005, 09:02 AM
Eg8r, don't bother to look up Gapetto.....it's not some Mafiosa guy.

"Pull the string and I'll wink at you, I'm your puppet
I'll do funny things if you want me to, I'm your puppet

I'm yours to have and to hold
Darling you've got full control of your puppet

Pull another string and I'll kiss your lips, I'm your puppet
Snap your finger and I'll turn you some flips, I'm your puppet

Your every wish is my command
All you gotta do is wiggle your little hand
I'm your puppet, I'm your puppet

I'm just a toy, just a funny boy
That makes you laugh when you're blue
I'll be wonderful, do just what I'm told
I'll do anything for you
I'm your puppet, I'm your puppet

Pull them little strings and I'll sing you a song, I'm your puppet
Make me do right or make me do wrong, I'm your puppet

Treat me good and I'll do anything
I'm just a puppet an you hold my string, I'm your puppet
Yeah, I'm your puppet

Walking, talking, living, loving puppet
I'm hanging on a string girl, I'll do anything now

I'm a walking, talking, living, loving puppet, and I love you

I'm a smiling happy face when you want me to
Even make you happy when you're feeling blue"
-------------------------------------------
And, I never knew the story was so complicated:


web page (http://caxton.stockton.edu/Wildflowers/stories/storyReader$17)

eg8r
11-30-2005, 10:57 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Eg8r, don't bother to look up Gapetto.....it's not some Mafiosa guy.
<hr /></blockquote> Thanks for Googling for me. Kind of like having a little secretary around. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

eg8r

wolfdancer
11-30-2005, 11:11 AM
I jes figger you gots your hands full, spreading around the gospel, according to St. George.
Little???? wish that were true....I never met a refrigerator, I didn't like....my new year's res...is to lose the weight I put on laying around in that leg cast.