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shakeybake
11-29-2005, 03:01 PM
I have played pool for well over 40 years. I have an ides of what a half-ball hit is, but reading this forum, I

Deeman3
11-29-2005, 03:21 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote shakeybake:</font><hr> I have played pool for well over 40 years. I have an ides of what a half-ball hit is, but reading this forum, I <font color="blue">can't finish my sentences? Shakeybake: A half ball hit is when the center ofthe cue ball hits at the edge of the object ball. The angle of departure is near 30 degrees from it's original travel line. It is useful in determining where you cue ball is headed. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

Deeman

Bob_Jewett
11-29-2005, 04:11 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote shakeybake:</font><hr> I have played pool for well over 40 years. I have an ides of what a half-ball hit is, but reading this forum, I ... <hr /></blockquote>
For more info about half-ball shots, see three articles at:

http://www.onthebreaknews.com/JewettIndex.htm

HALF-BALL SHOTS (March Issue 2004)
HALF-BALL SECRETS (April Issue 2004
HALF-BALL FOLLOW SECRETS (May Issue 2004

dr_dave
11-29-2005, 04:29 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote shakeybake:</font><hr> I have played pool for well over 40 years. I have an ides of what a half-ball hit is, but reading this forum, I<hr /></blockquote>

Here are some sources of useful information on 1/2-ball hits and the 30 degree rule:

- well illustrated instructional articles (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/bd_articles/index.html) (April-July '04 and February-June '05)

- online video demonstrations (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/normal_videos/index.html) (NV 3.8-3.10, 4.24, and 7.4)

- links to previous CCB discussion threads dealing with this topic (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/threads.html) (under "30 degree rule")

Happy reading and viewing,
Dr. Dave

Stretch
11-30-2005, 09:53 AM
Great, nothing to discuss on this topic. Wut with all the Instructors, writers, and experts posting thier own links, one needs only pose a question and go elsewhere. St.

dr_dave
11-30-2005, 10:01 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Stretch:</font><hr> Great, nothing to discuss on this topic. Wut with all the Instructors, writers, and experts posting thier own links, one needs only pose a question and go elsewhere. St.<hr /></blockquote>
There might be more to discuss here, but this topic has already been covered at great length elsewhere (hence the posted links).

Many topics seem to get rehashed quite a bit on Internet forums without any new information being added. That's why I continue to maintain and add links to the threads summary section of my website (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/threads.html). It makes it easy for people (me and others) to quickly find answers to perennial questions.

Catch you later,
Dave

HiPockets
11-30-2005, 10:11 AM
Most useful in 3 cushion billiards.

Snapshot9
11-30-2005, 11:50 AM
Actually, probably not what you are thinking about, but one
of my favorite safeties is leaving a situation where they
are halfway hooked, and they can not see any more of half
of their ball, that way they do not try to kick to make something, they shoot at the ball, and many times they are
limited with what they can do with the cue ball, and I know
that I will have a decent shot after they shoot, in other
words it becomes a restricting shot to them.

dr_dave
11-30-2005, 03:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote HiPockets:</font><hr> Most useful in 3 cushion billiards. <hr /></blockquote>
Agreed. The 1/2-ball hit and the 30 degree rule are very useful in 3-cushion billiards. However, they are also extremely important in pool for:

- scratch avoidance
- carom shot aiming
- cluster busting
- obstacle avoidance
- position play
- etc!

See my April-June '04 and December '05 instructional articles (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/bd_articles/index.html) for some examples.

Regards,
Dave

Cane
11-30-2005, 05:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr>
Agreed. The 1/2-ball hit and the 30 degree rule are very useful in 3-cushion billiards. However, they are also extremely important in pool for:

- scratch avoidance
- carom shot aiming
- cluster busting
- obstacle avoidance
- position play
- etc!

Regards,
Dave <hr /></blockquote>

Well, Dave, I agree and disagree with you. The half ball hit is useful in pocket billiads for all of the things you mentioned above, but I don't use the 30 rule. I use the tangent line, or 90 for a baseline and deviate from that line at a determined distance from the contact by using speed and top or bottom spin. Would you agree that every ball at contact leaves the contacted ball at a line 90 from the travel line of the object ball, and that it only deviates forward of or behind that line as a result of top spin, bottom spin or natural roll?

Later,
Bob

dr_dave
11-30-2005, 05:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cane:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr>
Agreed. The 1/2-ball hit and the 30 degree rule are very useful in 3-cushion billiards. However, they are also extremely important in pool for:

- scratch avoidance
- carom shot aiming
- cluster busting
- obstacle avoidance
- position play
- etc!

Regards,
Dave <hr /></blockquote>

Well, Dave, I agree and disagree with you. The half ball hit is useful in pocket billiads for all of the things you mentioned above, but I don't use the 30 rule. I use the tangent line, or 90 for a baseline and deviate from that line at a determined distance from the contact by using speed and top or bottom spin. Would you agree that every ball at contact leaves the contacted ball at a line 90 from the travel line of the object ball, and that it only deviates forward of or behind that line as a result of top spin, bottom spin or natural roll?

Later,
Bob <hr /></blockquote>
Hey Bob. Long time ... no talk to.

I agree with you; however, I'd like to add some clarifications:

- the 30 degree rule applies only for natural roll shots.

- the 30 degree rule applies for the entire range of cut angles between 1/4-ball and 3/4-ball hits. This range includes the 1/2-ball hit (which is at the center of the range).

- the cue ball always leaves initially along the tangent line, which is 90 degrees away from (i.e., perpendicular to) the impact line (AKA object ball direction, line-of-centers, target line, etc.). However, for slow to medium speed natural roll shots, the cue ball deflects to the 30 degree direction almost immediately (i.e., the curve in the trajectory is almost imperceptible). Only at higher speeds does the travel down the tangent line become significant (e.g., see NV 3.8 (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/normal_videos/NV3-8.htm) vs. NV 4.20 (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/normal_videos/NV4-20.htm)).

For more info and details, see the links and resources under "30 degree rule" in the thread summary section of my website (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/threads.html).

Regards,
Dave

Cane
11-30-2005, 06:18 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> Hey Bob. Long time ... no talk to.
<hr /></blockquote>

Yeah, I've been hiding out trying to get my 8-Ball game together... OK on a local level, but I'm going to Chicago for the Evolution Tour and it's single elim, with some big guns showing up, so I've been busy working on strategy. Been thinking my best strategy is a gun, but we'll try to just outplay them first! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Good point on the natural roll and immediate release on a 30 line. I guess I prefer to set up so I can use stop shots or slight draw most of the time and avoid natural roll. Everyone plays differently, but control is just much easier for me if I can slide the CB into the OB every chance I get! I don't like that "rolling thing"! I do however, come on a shot where I have to use a finesse speed and those are ALWAYS natural roll shots.

Well, off to check the IPT scores... exciting stuff going on there. Sure hope this is indicative of the rest of the Tournament!

Later,
Bob

pooltchr
12-01-2005, 06:15 AM
Bob,
I also prefer the 90 degree rule, but many times, natural roll is easier to control. Knowing the 30 degree rule gives you another option. I find I use both quite a bit.
Steve

dr_dave
12-01-2005, 08:12 AM
To Bob and others:

For those of you who don't feel like reading the numerous articles on the 30 degree rule (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/bd_articles/index.html) to figure out all of the important points, I have a well illustrated 1-page cheat-sheet summary posted in the "learning resources for instructors and students" section of my website (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/resources.html). Here's the direct link (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/resources/30_degree_rule_summary.pdf) to the document. Please feel free to copy this for your students.

Regards,
Dave

dr_dave
12-01-2005, 08:19 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> Bob,
I also prefer the 90 degree rule, but many times, natural roll is easier to control. Knowing the 30 degree rule gives you another option. I find I use both quite a bit.
Steve <hr /></blockquote>
Steve,

I'm with you on this one. I also use them both quite a bit.

FYI to others: I have a well-illustrated summary of all of the cases where the 90 and 30 degree rules apply in my July '04 instructional article (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/bd_articles/july04.pdf). Check it out.

Regards,
Dave

HiPockets
12-01-2005, 12:39 PM
I think it was in Kholer's (sp) book that I read years ago that the deviation from a half ball, 3/4 and 1/4 were not that much different based upon a parabolic curve graph that illustrated the deviation on these three hits.

I agree with the message where the writer relied upon the tangent line rather than the 30 degree rule. If you ever have played 3 cushion then you see where it (the 30 degree rule) comes in to play. The opening shot is a half ball hit assuming your cue ball is in the exact position and youi apply the correct english.

dr_dave
12-01-2005, 02:05 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote HiPockets:</font><hr> I think it was in Kholer's (sp) book that I read years ago that the deviation from a half ball, 3/4 and 1/4 were not that much different based upon a parabolic curve graph that illustrated the deviation on these three hits.<hr /></blockquote>
Koehler has an aproximate graph on page 57 of his "Science of Pocket Billiards." An exact graph with example numbers can be found at TP 3.3 (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/technical_proofs/TP_3-3.pdf). For more information and examples, see another thread posting (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Board=ccb&amp;Number=199355&amp;page =0&amp;view=collapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=&amp;fpart=&amp;vc=&amp;PHPSESSID=).

Regards,
Dave