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wolfdancer
11-30-2005, 01:25 PM
From the WSJ online edition


November 30, 2005 1:26 p.m.

President Bush unveiled what he called a strategy for victory and eventual troop withdrawal, even as Army War College researchers called victory, according to Mr. Bush's definition, nearly impossible.

Mr. Bush, in a U.S. Naval Academy speech that the White House had been publicizing for days, spelled out his administration's definition of victory in Iraq and strategy for achieving it. A companion document called the "National Strategy for Victory in Iraq" -- which the White House said described a plan that had been in place since 2003 -- said the Iraq war would be considered a success, in the long run, when Iraq was "peaceful, united, stable, and secure, well integrated into the international community, and a full partner in the global war on terrorism." By that time, Iraq will already have a "fully constitutional government" in place and be "in the lead" in providing its own security, according to the document.

In very broad terms, and without introducing any new details, Mr. Bush described a three-track strategy for reaching these goals, along political, military and economic lines. He also repeated his insistence that the U.S. would not withdraw from Iraq until victory had been achieved, and he rejected calls for a timetable for withdrawal -- though administration officials have raised expectations that significant withdrawals will begin next year.

But victory may not be in sight next year, according to a new study by Army War College researchers Andrew Terrill and Conrad Crane. The War College, which trains Army officers but does not reflect the views of the Pentagon, has long been pessimistic about the war. In a 2004 study, the War College called it "an unnecessary preventative war" and a "detour" from the war on terrorism. In February 2003, Messrs. Terrill and Crane warned that the invasion of Iraq would produce a growing insurgency, and that disbanding Iraq's army would only fuel the insurgency, both of which proved prescient. In their new report, they said it was "increasingly unlikely" that the insurgency will be crushed before U.S. troops leave, that it was "no longer clear" that Iraqis would be able to fully secure the entire country on their own and that the best-case scenario was an undemocratic, but stable, Iraq, ruled by factional militias. But they also joined Mr. Bush in opposing a timetable for withdrawal. "The long-term dilemma of the U.S. position in Iraq," wrote Messrs. Terrill and Crane, "can perhaps best be summarized as: 'We can't stay, we can't leave, we can't fail.'"

the code name for this plan

"Mission impossible"

eg8r
12-01-2005, 06:34 AM
[ QUOTE ]
A companion document called the "National Strategy for Victory in Iraq" -- which the White House said described a plan that had been in place since 2003 -- said the Iraq war would be considered a success, in the long run, when Iraq was "peaceful, united, stable, and secure, well integrated into the international community, and a full partner in the global war on terrorism." <hr /></blockquote> I think they have set themselves up for failure with this defintion, and it will never happen during W's time frame. However, I still think the defintion would be a great one for success. I think the big problem with this defintion is the requirement of peace in Iraq. I just don't think this will ever happen until the rest of the world stands up against Muslim extremists. That region is in such turmoil right now and that all started long before the US decided to dirty it hands over there. I personally feel we are in a losing battle, but there is always hope. I also don't believe that because the end really is no where in sight, does not mean we should have just continued to let Saddam do his thing. While he may not have been best friends with Al Qaeda, he was sympathetic to their cause and there is no doubt in anyone's mind that he could have been helpful to their cause in any future attacks anywhere in the world.

There is nothing wrong with a little preemptive action when the trash at the receiving end of a missile is Saddam Hussein and his horrible sons.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
12-01-2005, 08:01 AM
There were so many lies in Bush's speech in Annapolis yesterday, you almost see his nose growing as he spoke. Bush, has put this country in a trick bag. He is lying about the the number of trained Iraqis who are able to fight without our people being at the forefront. He lied about the road into Bahgdad, it is being gaurded by our troops, not the Iraqis. Only 7% of what he calls terrorists and Insurgents are from outside Iraq, the rest, are Iraqis, who are fighting a civil war amongst themselves. Saddam, hated bin Ladden. By all accurate accounts and from the most informed bin Laden experts, Saddam, being the egomaniac that he is, saw bL as a threat to his own control, and deeply resented any attention or praise that he received from the muslim world.

Saddam, was no immediate threat to us at the time we occupied Iraq. Sanctions, were taking on more affect, could have been up-graded, and Saddam could have been overthrown from inside Iraq without any occupation. Had Bush taken the sensible approach, and with the sympathy of many nations behind the U.S. after 9/11, he could very well have created allies around the world, enough to atleast contain SH for long enough to complete the search for WMD's. Without the untruthful tactics used by Bush, Cheney, Rice and Runsfeld, there would have been no vote on giving them the power to use their own judgement regarding Iraq, and over two thousand people and families would not be grieving here and countless others in Iraq. Yet when asked what mistakes he thinks he had made, this scrunge of the earth, says he can't think of any!

There is a good chance that we would have gotten bin Ladden, which should have been our first and most important business at hand, finished the inspections, and formulated more sanctions and efforts to dismantle SH's hold on the Iraqi people. Instead, and against the advice of many in the know, we opened a pandora's box.

Now, with no admissions of bad judgement, no apologies for his mishandling of the occupation, and no sign of standing before anything but a hand picked audience with no opportunity to show their resistence to his philosophy, he has the nerve to use our troops, The Airforce Academy, The Navel Academy, even a Veterns Day Memorial, to continue to dictate to the United States, and against the wishes of the majority of Americans, that we must abide by his fanatical religious policies which have cost us not only the lives of over 2100 of our troops, but a raging deficit, and the respect of the rest of the world.

Perhaps the greatest tragedy lies in the fact that there are still people in this country, so ill informed, so completely partisan, and so small minded, that they are either in total denial for the sake of their party, or apathetically unaware of the colossal, unprecedented damage that he has done to this country. When he tells us, "I don't read books, or the newspapers, and I don't watch the polls" it is probably the one true statement that he has ever made other than whe he suggests that he is in communication with God, and has been put in the WH to do God's work! Exactly the same justification used by the terrorists, who believe that they are doing the work of Allah....yet many religious folks in this country do not see the problem with blurring the lines of separation of church and state, and are foolishly unconcerned by the growing power of the religious right and their constant efforts to dictate to others, and threaten their rights to chose their own personal decisions.

If Americans would make the effort to learn for themselves how many people in this world see George Bush as the most dangerous dictator in the world, who occupies countries which are of no immediate threat, justifies killing thousands in the name of God, and refuses to answer his critics for his failed and misguided atrocities against mankind, perhaps, they would cease calling those who are critical of the administration,communists, and begin to open their partisan eyes to the truth.

We are fast approaching the loss of more people dead due to his decisions, than were killed in the attack of 9/11, and killed by bin ladden, who is still uncaptured, and with a group of extremist religious fanatics which were mostly from Saudi Arabia, while our troops are bing maimed and killed everyday, Iraqis throw stones at them, and 45% believe it is right to kill Americans, George Bush, who has never seen a battlefield, proclaims, "Stay The Course" and cuts funding for our Veterans, while Dick Cheney holds secret meetings with oil executives, and poverty and homeless levels continue to grow, during an operation called "Mission Impossible."

Gayle in Md.

Sid_Vicious
12-01-2005, 09:49 AM
I could hear stutters and changes in his voice from outside the viewing area of my TV, that's how badly he does his lies. I would love to see a panel of lie-educated professionals who reads body language, etc., critique that speech, phrase by phrase...sid

Gayle in MD
12-01-2005, 10:05 AM
Hey Martin, the chimp can't do anything right, plain and simple. His plants in the pentagon are now paying reporters in Iraq to write positive stories about U.S. progress in Iraq, lol, while telling us, and the world, that their goal is to spread freedom, democracy, and free speech in Iraq! I wonder how much they paid Judith Miller, lol. I guess these false reports in the news in Iraq, and some of it suppostedly by a public relations firm, are a lead up to his next five speeches, which ofcourse will be held safely at some room filled with troops who dare not fail to cheer and clap! I can just see it now, Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld, reading from the Iraqi News to Americans about the "Progress" in Iraq, straight from Iraqi News, LMAO! They can't even set things up so they won't get caught in the process of doing something which is designed to BS us and the Iraqis, without screwing that up too!

Gayle in Md.....The only thing the repiglicans are good at so far is is running up a deficit!

/ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

wolfdancer
12-01-2005, 10:13 AM
Gayle, I threw in the "Mission Impossible" code name,
but it was mentioned in the WSJ

pooltchr
12-01-2005, 10:22 AM
Gayle,
I believe GWB could wipe out the national debt, end all wars throughout the world, give every child in the country a college education, and put an end to illegal immigration, and you would still find fault with him.

Gayle in MD
12-01-2005, 10:26 AM
Well, it sure is the best description I've heard of this war so far....when you hear his description, you really begin to wonder about his mental health. The man is totally out of touch with reality, but what could you expect from someone who won't consider any facts other than his own version of what IS, IS !

Gayle in Md.....

wolfdancer
12-01-2005, 10:32 AM
nah....only if he tried for a third term

Gayle in MD
12-01-2005, 10:42 AM
AH HA HA HA...Interesting...in light of the fact that he has driven up more debt than any president in history, increased greatly the drop out rate with his no child left behind, totally neglected illegal immigration, except to try to promote more of it by giving them amnesty, and started a war with the one country in the Middle east that had no weapons of mass destruction, and no means to get them, and you're still supporting him...one of us is really screwed up, that's for sure....

Let's get one thing straight. If Bush had gone in there an done a decent job, I'd be applauding him. I'm no partisan puppet, unlike you neo-conservatives who are only happy when we are fighting some war somewhere....

Gayle in Md., I hope you teach pool better than you decipher current events....

Qtec
12-01-2005, 12:38 PM
He had a plan???????????????

Q /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

wolfdancer
12-01-2005, 12:45 PM
Plan???? he doesn't even have a clue !!!!

pooltchr
12-01-2005, 07:38 PM
And if you ever decide to take pool lessons, I hope you are more open minded to learning than you seem to be on this forum.

Gayle in MD
12-01-2005, 08:01 PM
Having a closed mind is when your first plan is to gloss over the facts, and/or cover them up, which is the substance of the Bush "War Plan" from start to finish. Hence, they are now paying people to write it their way. I have no doubt that you righties will then have a field day googling up the same propaganda to support your faith in the chimp. When it comes to open minds, the religious right has a lot to overcome from the start, given the nature of organized religion.

Blind faith is the antithesis of an open mind.

Gayle in Md.

pooltchr
12-02-2005, 05:05 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Having a closed mind is when your first plan is to gloss over the facts, and/or cover them up, which is the substance of the Bush "War Plan" from start to finish. Hence, they are now paying people to write it their way. I have no doubt that you righties will then have a field day googling up the same propaganda to support your faith in the chimp. When it comes to open minds, the religious right has a lot to overcome from the start, given the nature of organized religion.

Blind faith is the antithesis of an open mind.

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

"you righties"? You have made an assumption, quite incorrectly that I am a member of the religeous right? Once again, you also find it necessary to resort to name calling when refering to the president.
Do you think it would be possible for you to make one post where you didn't make assumptions about others, resort to name calling or catagorizing people into your little pigeon holes, or just stick to the facts? I haven't seen one yet that I can recall.

Gayle in MD
12-02-2005, 06:50 AM
Once again, you have misread my post. No where in it do I call you a member of the religious right, only a righty, which I think you are. The comment about the religious right was a general statement aimed at the religious right

As for your last question, I could ask the same of you. When you begin to post to me without condescending remarks and assumptions, you will find a different kind of response in turn. As for what I call the president, as I suggested previously, if my posts offend you, then stop reading them, and/or wake up and realize that we have freedom of speach in this country, and this is an open public forum. Or to use your own words, grow up!

Gayle in Md,

DickLeonard
12-02-2005, 10:14 AM
Eg8r. The Fallacy of GWB thinking is The Mind of the Muslim. They hold grudges for hundreds of years, one day someone will stick a knife in your body while telling you he is avenging his great grandfather who was insulted by yours. ####

DickLeonard
12-02-2005, 10:25 AM
Gayle being one who can get to Washington to see the Bush Circus, knows that Reporters don't have Freedom of Speech. If they ask the President an embarassing Question that needs asking but he doesn't want to answer, he will never take a Question from you again. So much for freedom of Speech.####

wolfdancer
12-02-2005, 10:38 AM
Dick, don't know if you saw the President's "job reports" speech today...a quick speech, then an exit-stage right, without answering any questions.
While there is a claim of x number of new jobs....I wonder how the avg income compares with the many skilled, decent/high paying jobs that are lost, in the stories I read about these past few years. Those grotty, greeter jobs at Wal-Mart, and employment in the high tech field, have slightly different pay scales, I believe.
And the Army is always hiring.....

wolfdancer
12-02-2005, 11:04 AM
Why we invaded Iraq...................


I have decided to post the definitive answer:
when you have a Father with the credentials of a George Bush...heroic pilot, CIA Director, President.....it's only natural that you would try to emulate, compete, surpass him.
Daddy was a pilot.....you tried, but found out you had to be sober to fly
Daddy was a President...no problem, daddy gots $$$$$, and friends.
Daddy was perceived as a strong leader,a just defender, during the first Gulf War....well, why quit at the city gates this time?
after all, "Joshua Fit The Battle Of Jerico,and the walls came tumbling down..."
Well, I'm not a psychologist...skipped school the day they taught psychology....but i did stay at a Motel Six one nite
Woke up with an ugly woman too, i remember
In the meantime.....I believe GWB is "A clear and present danger"

DickLeonard
12-02-2005, 12:26 PM
Wolfdancer Nothing this White House says I believe. If they lied about weapons of mass destruction. You think they wouldn't hesitate to lie about little thing like jobs.####

Sid_Vicious
12-02-2005, 01:16 PM
"Wolfdancer Nothing this White House says I believe. If they lied about weapons of mass destruction. You think they wouldn't hesitate to lie about little thing like jobs"

Same thing I thought when the jobs-drum was whacked by the chimp. Those jobs didn't even have to be full time nor non-contract either, not to mention the pay scale issues. GW's going to have some real fireside meetings with OPEN questions for me to ever believe a da#n thing that comes outta his mouth...sid

Stretch
12-02-2005, 03:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> Gayle,
I believe GWB could wipe out the national debt, end all wars throughout the world, give every child in the country a college education, and put an end to illegal immigration, and you would still find fault with him. <hr /></blockquote>

The money he spent on going to war would have been a nice down payment on doing just that. St.

Gayle in MD
12-03-2005, 04:57 AM
Ditto ! His Ivey league Neo-con group was outraged when he didn't stay in the middle east, and go after Saddam. They had a plan from the start which was set in stone regarding their occupation of Iraq. Problem is, it was a stupid plan, or a non-plan, which was totally bungled. Cheney didn't have a clue about what he was doing. Nothing went as he was sure it would go. He was warned, Bush was warned, trouble is that those with the most knowledge about the Middle East, S.H. and b.L., were for the most part, folks who had come up in the eight years of the Clinton reign, and rule number one in this administration, above and beyond everything else, is get rid of Democrats, wipe them out of Washington, and above all, don't listen to their advice, especially if the are experts. If they had listened, 9/11 may have been prevented, and that is what they don't want investigated. But, the investigation will go forward, and I hope the truth will finally be known.

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
12-03-2005, 05:07 AM
Hey Dick, I wonder how many of those new jobs he talks about, are job that have gone to illegal aliens here? It is interesting that while he is telling us how great the economy is doing, poverty levels are growing, and the deficit is raging, and Greenspan is giving us the most stringent warnings I have ever heard him put forth regarding the deficits we are incurring.
He can't give interviews because he can't think on his feet without a prepared, memorized statement, and he can't justify all the mistakes.

Have you ever seen a president this unwilling to put himself out there for questioning from the press? I can't remember when was the last time he had an open press conference with questions. This is a dictatorship, there is no accountability.

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
12-03-2005, 08:00 AM
The Congress has voted themselves raises seven times since the last rise in the minimum wage! Funny thing is, while the repubs vote themselves more money, it's still not enough, hence they are taking bribes, and slying aroun in jets owned by the biggest corporate crooks in the country. Bush flew thousands of mile in the Enron jet, now Fox news and Big tobacco is flying Delay everywhere, even while he's under investigation, to do TV shows which could be done with Sat, hookups, hmmm, guess he and the little lady had some shopping to do, compliments of Abrahmoff...

Gayle in Md....

wolfdancer
12-03-2005, 04:42 PM
This just in : they have renamed the plan:
"Plan 9, From Outer Space" !
amost as badly flawed as the original

Plan 9 (http://www.angelfire.com/il/dauber/PLAN-9.html)