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View Full Version : IPT- How important is a power break?



Eric.
12-01-2005, 11:35 AM
Seems like the old break debate:

What's more important, power or accuracy? Obviously, you have to have parts of both. Some people say that you don't need much power if you hit the head ball square. Others say that while accuracy is important, you have to be able to crush the rack too.

I was checking out the results on the IPT thing and it seems like the guys with the big breaks seem to have the most break and runs. Bustamonte, Feijen, Vandenberg, Mika, Tony R, Manalo all have far more B&R's than the rest of the field. Coincidence?

http://www.internationalpooltour.com/ipt_content/ipt_online_event/scoring_round2.asp

Eric >smash the rack

Steve Lipsky
12-01-2005, 02:37 PM
Hey Eric. I think that a power break in 8-ball is much more important than a power break in 9-ball. Once you make a ball on the break in 8-ball, you've got a great chance to run the rack if the balls are mostly spread (especially with liberal rules like open table after break). Keeping the cueball in center table, in my opinion, is of less importance in 8-ball, where you can begin your run by shooting any ball.

Isn't it also more difficult to KEEP the cueball in center table after the break, because so many balls are flying around that your chances of a kick are so high?

I think that as long as you exert enough control to miss the obvious scratches (i.e., no rails, but straight into a pocket), you should hit the balls as hard as possible.

- Steve

dr_dave
12-01-2005, 02:53 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Eric.:</font><hr>I was checking out the results on the IPT thing and it seems like the guys with the big breaks seem to have the most break and runs.<hr /></blockquote>
Where can one find these results and stats that people keep talking about?

Thanks,
Dave

Eric.
12-01-2005, 02:56 PM
There's no dispute that more power is needed in 8 ball tahn 9 ball. I fully agree that in 9 ball, you should only hit hard enough to make a ball, spread the rack and have a shot on the 1 into the head rail corner pocket(if that's what you are playing for). Anything more is a wasted effort.

My post reminded me of a comment/post once about how a hard break in 8 ball can be detrimental becasue of the balls bouncing off the rails and re-clustering up or something like that. From what I've seen, I still like the "smash em as hard as you can without losing the CB". Seems like in 8 ball, the big break is a bigger advantage than just "hitting the head ball firm and accurately". Unless the rack is opening up easily, ala Sardo, ya gotta smash em good.

Of course, IMO.


Eric

Harold Acosta
12-01-2005, 03:47 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Eric.:</font><hr>I was checking out the results on the IPT thing and it seems like the guys with the big breaks seem to have the most break and runs.<hr /></blockquote>
Where can one find these results and stats that people keep talking about?

Thanks,
Dave <hr /></blockquote>

Links to the results:

http://www.internationalpooltour.com/ipt_content/ipt_online_event/scoring_round1.asp

http://www.internationalpooltour.com/ipt_content/ipt_online_event/scoring_round2.asp

crookedcue
12-01-2005, 06:16 PM
after watching deuel soft break in so many matches,i decided to try it a few times....i find that just smashing em works for me.most of the time im happy with the end result.

Billy_Bob
12-02-2005, 12:25 AM
I find that I make balls on the break with 8-ball if I break less fast. If I break real fast, no balls go in.

I am using a 17 oz break cue, so I can get some speed up.

caedos
12-02-2005, 11:32 AM
While we're at it, are they using a head ball break or a second ball break the majority of the time?


c

Eric.
12-02-2005, 01:06 PM
From what I heard, everybody is breaking hard into the head ball. They are using a break box too.


Eric

supergreenman
12-02-2005, 10:33 PM
a break box would pretty much eliminate a 2nd ball back break. I only use that break on a barbox. I don't know if I've ever seen anybody ever break 2nd ball back on a 9foot table.

Rich R.
12-03-2005, 03:26 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote supergreenman:</font><hr> a break box would pretty much eliminate a 2nd ball back break. I only use that break on a barbox. I don't know if I've ever seen anybody ever break 2nd ball back on a 9foot table. <hr /></blockquote>It's very common to use the 2nd ball break on a 9' table, however, as you said, breaking from the box would pretty much eliminate the 2nd ball break.

Chopstick
12-03-2005, 07:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Eric.:</font><hr> From what I heard, everybody is breaking hard into the head ball. They are using a break box too.


Eric <hr /></blockquote>

It's in the rules. They have to hit the head ball. I am not sure about the break box. I'll ask today. The guys that are having the most success on the break are the accurate ones. Archer is not doing that well with his. Manolo is breaking them great. Rolf Soquet has the most controlled break but he hasn't been able to follow up. Mika Immomen is breaking well. I heard he six packed Corey Duel.

I was there when Bustamonte played Allison Fischer. She never had a chance. He just ran right over her like a speed bump. I hear he did worse to Karen Corr. The women have played tough and smart. I have seen them pull off some really gutsy outs. But in the end "They break like girls". That's just too tough to overcome in this field.

And the high point of the tournament so far???? Wait for it....(You guys have get to get the tape of this).......

<font color="blue"> Gerda Hofstatter took down Earl the Pearl in a hill hill match. </font color> IT WAS GREAT!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I saw him a little doing the match interview across the room. I couldn't hear what he was saying but he was waving his arms rantin' about something. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Rich R.
12-03-2005, 09:30 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chopstick:</font><hr> I saw him a little doing the match interview across the room. I couldn't hear what he was saying but he was waving his arms rantin' about something. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif <hr /></blockquote>
Earl always has something to rant about. Many of us have heard it all before. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Chopstick
12-04-2005, 07:03 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Eric.:</font><hr> From what I heard, everybody is breaking hard into the head ball. They are using a break box too.


Eric <hr /></blockquote>

I ask them. They are using the break box.

Eric.
12-05-2005, 07:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chopstick:</font><hr>
<font color="blue"> Gerda Hofstatter took down Earl the Pearl in a hill hill match. </font color> IT WAS GREAT!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I saw him a little doing the match interview across the room. I couldn't hear what he was saying but he was waving his arms rantin' about something. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif <hr /></blockquote>

I saw the score, Charlie. I'll bet Earl wan't too happy about that. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif


Eric

Bob_Jewett
12-05-2005, 07:35 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Eric.:</font><hr> ...
What's more important, power or accuracy? ... <hr /></blockquote>
The break box was two diamonds square. Most were breaking from one corner or the other, and everyone was hitting the head ball as full as they could. Bustamante had the best breaks I saw -- cue ball hopping back to the center of the table and squatting -- but he also had some of the worst with the cue ball following through to foot rail. Many players seemed to have the problem of the cue ball ending up on the head cushion without a shot.

I saw several cue balls go off the table on breaks.

On many breaks most of the balls ended up in the top half of the table. With the Sardo rack, rarely was there a cluster in the rack area, unless it was from balls that returned. On a couple of breaks I saw, the problem was a cluster on the head rail.

With the conditions in the tournament, I think all the players had sufficient speed. Although the cloth was advertized as slow, it looked to be as fast as Simonis the first two or three days.

Cornerman
12-06-2005, 07:30 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Eric.:</font><hr> Seems like the old break debate:

What's more important, power or accuracy? <hr /></blockquote>

It's a combination, but here's some information. In the finals, when Efren started breaking harder, that's when he started to fail to make a ball on the break.

On Sigel's break, he was hitting them harder than Efren, and he had figured a spot and speed to make the second ball into the side pocket every time. So, even though he only broke 5 times, he had 3 break and runs. Small sample, but his breaks were wide open every time.

Efren's softer break (no, I'm not saying Efren can't break hard, because he *can* any time he wants. See above statement) kept the table more congested, but his phenomenal control allowed him to runout anything.

For the rest of us, a strong break in 8-ball is the key to running out because you'll get easier racks. If you have phenomenal control, then you'd be Efren and you wouldn't be reading this post.

Fred &lt;~~~ amazed at how many people have such great cueball control on these boards.

Cornerman
12-06-2005, 07:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote supergreenman:</font><hr> a break box would pretty much eliminate a 2nd ball back break. I only use that break on a barbox. I don't know if I've ever seen anybody ever break 2nd ball back on a 9foot table. <hr /></blockquote>Many times, many people.

Fred