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View Full Version : Saddam Elects To No Show! WTF



Sid_Vicious
12-07-2005, 03:28 PM
Ok here's a guy we pryed out of a spider hole, kept in jail waiting for criminal trial, and his rights extend to electively just not going to court!? First thing the Iraqis need to learn is court procedure. Frankly speaking, he's lucky to not have been executed far before this much time, and actions like this one today needs absolute repurcusions. Main thng I wondered was, just why wasn't he shakled and hauled into court. After all, he has no power to dictate much of anything is he? This is a circus show, an insult to us and our troops, and especially to the victims who've testified against him so far. I won't be surprised if some of the future witnesses decide to not do so.

I'd have dragged him into that court just out of principal...sid

stickman
12-07-2005, 10:16 PM
Like you, I'd drag him into court. Additionally, if he wouldn't conduct himself appropriately, I'd give him only one warning, and advise him that I'd jail him and hold court without him. There's no way he should get away with the stunts he's been carrying out. /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif

eg8r
12-08-2005, 12:07 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Main thng I wondered was, just why wasn't he shakled and hauled into court. After all, he has no power to dictate much of anything is he? This is a circus show, an insult to us and our troops, and especially to the victims who've testified against him so far. <hr /></blockquote> I find it a bit odd to see you backing the troops now when Saddam is in prison. Seems like too little too late. Sorry, but when you bash the war and everything that is going on over there, I find it hard to believe you care at all whether Saddam goes to court and is tried. If we were to have listened to you a couple years ago Saddam would not even be in this position.

I do agree they should drag his butt into court and TORTURE the crap out of him. I think they should let the lady that just testified have first crack at him and then line up all the Iraqis who are thankful our President did not sit back and listen to the naysayers, and give them each a minute to their pleasing. Saddam is a piece of trash and is not deserving of anything except the same treatment he gave those while he was in command.

eg8r

supergreenman
12-08-2005, 02:47 PM
Blah blah blah blah, it never ends does it. Saddam, on trial at the moment for executing people that rose up against him. (not for all the other horrible things he's done, chemical weapons on kurds, an unlawfull war against Iran and so on). so my point if I have one is that Yes he's a bad person, and should be held accountable for his crimes, he still deserves a fair trial which he has no hope of getting.

Just for further debate, here's a short list of his crimes compared with someone a little closer to home.

Saddam:
-using chemical weapons on civilian population
-torture
-using a secret service to keep his population in line
-executing people who rebelled against him.

GWB:
-using chemical weapons on civilian population
-torture
-using a secret service to keep his population in line
-executing people who rebelled against him.(oh wait, that could be the future)

Gayle in MD
12-08-2005, 10:22 PM
Hi SuperGreenman...

We need to add a few more on the GW side, like lying to the Senate and the Congress.
Fixing Intelligence to support war.
Lying to the public about what he would do if any in his administration had been involved in outing a CIA operative.
Election tampering, aka Katherine Harris.
Just a few...
Oh, BTW, Eg8r doesn't believe in freedom of speech, he thinks that if you stand against being lied to by the president, you're not partiotic....he also thinks that George Bush was a better Cheerleader in College than John Kerry, ....Kerry was never even a cheerleader, LOL, Only Bush....was a cheerleader..

I find it really funny how the religious right manages to make light of lies that cost the lives of thousands of people. How they are so willing for our young people to die and be maimed, and continue to die and be maimed, with little regard for how they ended up in this situation in the first place, or what if any facts support the continued loss of life. They think that demanding accountability for incompetence which costs the lives and limbs of our troops, is wrong, unpatriotic, and should be just swept under the republican rug, and forgotten, and anyone who highlights such atrocious behavior, such gross incompetence, such total dishonesty, is unpatriotic, and doesn't care about our troops, or how things end up in Iraq.

So Bushized are they that they attack all those who realize that his incompetence and that of his appointed incompetent cronies, are what put our people in even greater danger, and set this avoidable war off into Kaos, and extended the length of time over which our youth must die, and be injured, due to his own failure of leadership, and lack of knowledge about the country which he occupied. Some folks can justify anything as long as their partisanship isn't compromised....and then they have the nerve to call others, "Closed Minded" ...

Who cares if our young folks die, or how long they have to stay over there, as long as Republicans, aka George Bush and the ignorant right can save face !!!

Bush lied us into war, and now he lies to us about the war. How can you put together 121 batallions in two weeks, these batallions cannot fight alone, therefore they are NOT trained. This is the administration of deadly semantics, which has become its enemy. Their support of torture, proves it.

It is disgusting to hear any American speak up for the torturing of any human being, and then call themselves Christians, and patriots. We're all hypocrits, but, it is a matter of degree, IMO.

Gayle in Md.

pooltchr
12-09-2005, 06:16 AM
Gayle,
You are absolutely right. We should pull out all of our troops immediately, not just from Iraq, but all over the world. Bring all Americans home, kick out all the non-Americans...and just let the rest of the world go to Hell!

We would be just fine............for a few years, anyway.

Unless you have put on the uniform, and sworn to defend our country against all enemys, both foreign and domentic, your ranting holds very little weight.

eg8r
12-09-2005, 06:19 AM
[ QUOTE ]
so my point if I have one is that Yes he's a bad person, and should be held accountable for his crimes, he still deserves a fair trial which he has no hope of getting.
<hr /></blockquote> Why does he deserve a fair trial?

eg8r

eg8r
12-09-2005, 06:20 AM
[ QUOTE ]
We're all hypocrits, but, it is a matter of degree, IMO.
<hr /></blockquote> LOL, yeah and you show no limit. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

Gayle in MD
12-09-2005, 07:05 AM
Very interesting...so you think that only veterans have a right to speak up in this country? I only wish you and the rest of the neocons had felt that way about the Bush hawks when they were ranting about mushroom clouds and WMD's.



You pull out your Vet card again. I suppose then that you think that Cheney, with 5 deferments, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Rove, Rice, should take a back seat to the opinions of John Murtha, whom I agree with completely.

OK then, we'll just continue to watch our troops die until the Iraqis throw flowers in the streets. Given your denial of the realities of this war, I'm sure you find that to be a reasonable suggestion....


If there are 214,000, trained Iraqis, as Bush said, then why the hell are our people there? If you can't see through this administration, your opinions about who has credibility, or the right to voice their views, are of no interest to me.
Gayle in Md.....

eg8r
12-09-2005, 08:35 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Very interesting...so you think that only veterans have a right to speak up in this country? <hr /></blockquote> Just like you so ridiculously believe women should have the only voice in abortion. Pathetic...

eg8r

Chopstick
12-09-2005, 10:09 AM
It's their country. They can run it however they want. Isn't that what we are working to provide for them?

pooltchr
12-09-2005, 04:19 PM
Very interesting....You respond to the last paragraph of the post, but conveniently side-step the major point.

Do you think we should pull out our troops immediately???
If so, Why?
Can you answer a couple of simple questions?
Be specific. No extra credit points for adding the normal liberal spin. Just a simple answer will suffice. Don't bash the administration, don't bash the religeous right...just answer in your own words if you support this idea and your reasoning.
Steve

Gayle in MD
12-09-2005, 07:31 PM
I didn't sidestep anything, I said that I agree with Congressman Murtha, that our troops should give notice to the Iraqis that in a few months, we will redeploy our troops to the outskirts of Iraq borders, and hand the mantle of building their own democracy to them, while we provide back up in emergency situations. They are not going to step up to the plate until they have to. And our presence in Iraq is the main problem. I do not think that George Bush should be given an open, undisclosed, non specific free reign on how long our troops must remain in Iraq. To simply say, when the Iraqis stand up, we can stand down, is not sufficient, nor is it fair to troops, when many of them have been redeployed three and four times, and their presence is seen as an occupation, which feeds the insurgency, and the Bathest and Sunni resistence.

Gayle in Md.

pooltchr
12-10-2005, 07:20 AM
Thank you for a reasonable response. Would you be so kind as to define "a few months"?
Steve

Gayle in MD
12-10-2005, 01:56 PM
Certainly, within two weeks after the elections, the gradual redeployment could begin, with a goal of having them all out of Iraq in six to ten weeks, or two and a half months.

Gayle in md.

pooltchr
12-10-2005, 02:28 PM
O-K, let's go so far as to say 3 months. We will have our troops out of the country by April 1. Now, if I am one of the insurgents fighting the US, I am going to be very pleased. I no longer have to fight to get rid of the US presence....I just have to bide my time until April, and plan with my fellow rebels to take over the country, once those damn Americans leave....which they have committed to doing by April first. In my mind, our side has won the war...the Americans are the weak chicken s--t infidels we have always thought they were. We ran them off, and now we will take over our country again.

Do you see how this line of reasoning might be faulty?
Steve

Fasteddy7
12-11-2005, 05:39 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr>
Do you see how this line of reasoning might be faulty?
Steve <hr /></blockquote>

I do. But you are coming across as a close-minded, leftist, neocon, bushite, cheney loving, war mongering, religious freak .....I dont know what else she calls people but the list is much longer.lol

pooltchr
12-12-2005, 06:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fasteddy7:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr>
Do you see how this line of reasoning might be faulty?
Steve <hr /></blockquote>

I do. But you are coming across as a close-minded, leftist, neocon, bushite, cheney loving, war mongering, religious freak .....I dont know what else she calls people but the list is much longer.lol <hr /></blockquote>


Leftist??????????????????? Me???????????????????
You are obviously kidding.

I am not particularly happy with the way things are going over there. I think they could have done a much better job of planning. But given the present situation, I think we must stay there and clean up the mess. The results of pulling out now would have long term negative consequences that I prefer not to have to deal with in the future. We started the job, whether we like it or not, and now our only intelligent choice is to finish it.

Steve---still a Liberterian at heart.

Gayle in MD
12-12-2005, 07:03 AM
I see how your line of reasoning is faulty. So does Congressman Murtha, one of the most knowlegable hawks on the Hill, in touch with our troops on the ground, and every General involved in this war. And further, I think you will see Bush backing off more and more from his "Stay The Course" description of what must be so before we get out, to something much more similar to what Murtha has suggested. Would you like to wager a little bet on that?

There are several excellent books on this subject. If you would like, I would be happy to PM you some titles. The reality is, no matter how many Americans die, or how long we stay, the only thing that will insure democracy in Iraq, is for the Iraqis to fight for it. In the long run, by staying, all we are doing is prolonging the day when they have to step up to the plate and fight for democracy. They want us out, so that they can hone in on those in their country who use our presence as a justification for their attacks. With out our presence, there jsutification for the attacks is no longer an issue. It is our occupation which unites the radical muslims to fight in Iraq, and draws into the area the few al Qaeda operatives which are there. If Bush and Company hadn't sent the Iraqi army home with their weapons, and had a decent plan for after the Shock and Awe, things may have been much better by now. But, instead, they got rid of General Schenschekki (SP) who warned them that they did not have enough troops on the ground, therefore the real Shock and Awe came after the occupation, and hit the Bush Administration, when they learned that the General was right, and they should have listened to the experts, since none of them had any war experience, except for Powell, who agreed with the General, and was not for the occupation in the first place. "You Break it, you own it." said Powell.

Now, we have another war expert, telling Bush to get our people out of there, and let the Iraqis fight it out for themselves, rather than leaving our troops as targets, and as "Reasons" why the insurgency says they are promoting a JJehadd. Murtha, with thirty eight years of war experience, and having kept constant communication with the Generals on the ground, who can't speak their minds to Bush and Company, and with the troops in Walter Reed Army Hospital, here in Washington, and the Bush people are calling him a Coward, Irresponsible, and worse, and making up lies about e-mails, which are lies, and reading them before the Senate....Every thing this group does, smacks of lies and Wag The Dog mentality, sound bytes spoken over and over until the faint hearted, who don't read, and their hell bent folowers, who take everything bad that comes out about Bush, as a personal affront, rather than having an open mind, and reading into it on their own, just accept what they are lying about. It is becoming clearer, to me atleast, that the undieing support of this administration, though dwindling, is from the portion of the right who hate democrats and what they categorize as "Liberal" so much that they're unfounded trust in Bush, is really nothing more than their hate for the left. Deny anything and everything, even after it is proven, and accepted all over the world as truth, and documented over and over again, but whatever and no matter, don't agree with the left, even if it means that our troops are being slaughtered for nothing, as in the final analysis, the Irqis must be the ones to fight for their democracy, and the American presence only exacerbates the insurgincy.

Since your president says that there are 215,000 trained Iraqis over there, why should we stay? The occupation by our country has made Iraq the most dangerous place on the planet. Once we are gone, those Iraqis who are willing to fight for freedom and democracy, will stand up and fight, which is ultimately the only solution anyway. Those who want to go back to the Bathest rule, must be contained ultimately by those who want democracy. They are using our occupation as their justification for blowing up Iraqis who are fighting with us.

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in Md.

Chopstick
12-12-2005, 08:52 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> We started the job, whether we like it or not, and now our only intelligent choice is to finish it.

Steve---still a Liberterian at heart. <hr /></blockquote>

There you go, somebody finally said it. We made a commitment to these people and we should stand by it no matter what or how long it takes. We didn't back them up back in the nineties over something we started and it got thousands of them killed in a gruesome way. If we pull out before the job is done there will be another blood bath and that blood will be on our hands too.

Somebody tell that it ain't true because I don't want to believe that's the way things are.

Gayle in MD
12-12-2005, 01:11 PM
There is a blood bath right now. Staying there isn't going to stop it. Over and Over the Generals say that the Iraqis see us as occupiers. They are offended that Americans are on their land. Are you saying that we must stay forever, because staying isn't going to acheive peace in that country. The militant muslims will fight until doomsday as long as we insult their sacred ground, and as long as we are seen as occupiers. We got rid of Saddam, now we need to let them take over and form their own government, and fight off the militant resistance. Eighty precent of them want us out. 45 % want us dead. Sure, we can stay another eight years, and lose another forty thousand troops, is that what you want? Do you want to stay another five years and lose another twenty thousand? Since when is American responsible for building empires? I don't see that in our constitution anywhere. The ultimate battle, between the Iraqis who want democracy, and the Iraqis who don't want it, will have to be fought at the end of the day, that is unless we continue to abandon our own national security to focus on the best interest of some other country. For God's sake, they are throwing rocks at our troops over there. They don't see us as liberators, we are occupiers to them....they want us out.

Gayle in Md....Am I the only one here who remembers Vietnam?

supergreenman
12-12-2005, 02:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Gayle in Md....Am I the only one here who remembers Vietnam? <hr /></blockquote>

Is that the same thing as remembering Woodstock?

Sorry I couldn't resist

James

Sid_Vicious
12-12-2005, 07:46 PM
"I think you will see Bush backing off more and more from his "Stay The Course" description of what must be so before we get out, to something much more similar to what Murtha has suggested. Would you like to wager a little bet on that?"

I'll take that action as well. Bush will dwindle on his so called solid "stay the course." The repubs coming up for election next year will cause that if nothing else. Bush will be the puppet, and finally for a good ending...sid

Deeman3
12-13-2005, 06:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> "I think you will see Bush backing off more and more from his "Stay The Course" description of what must be so before we get out, to something much more similar to what Murtha has suggested. Would you like to wager a little bet on that?" <font color="blue"> Sid, of course he will. This is no wager. The President can't openly let it be known that he will draw down the troops even though, of course, he has intentions to do so. These senators can show weakness, not the president. If he said, "We are drawing down on such and such a date, the insurgents would be heartened and fight harder. </font color>

I'll take that action as well. Bush will dwindle on his so called solid "stay the course." The repubs coming up for election next year will cause that if nothing else. Bush will be the puppet, and finally for a good ending...sid <font color="blue"> I don't think, of all you have falsly accused the president of, you can now say he will blow with the political wind. He stayed the coourse even under tremendous political pressures. That's exactly why some of us like him. It's easy to get a senator to ecco the prevaling political sentiment, you see them all doing so now. It just takes more to be a president and stand firm. </font color>

Deeman
<hr /></blockquote>

Gayle in MD
12-13-2005, 09:52 AM
You are leaving out one minor little detail, he created a need to go to war in the first place, when there was no need, and he lied to us to get us over there. There is no justification for a President to knowingly launch false information and media propaganda in order to lie us into a war, which was easily avoidable. Now he uses media propaganda in order to lie to us about how successful his uncalled for war is to date. When he leaves, he'll be lying about what was accomplished that was in our interest. The man can't tell the truth. He was asked about why he continues to link alQaeda to SH, although there was never a link, and he lied about that. He was asked about why we weren't greeted, welcomed by the Iraqis, and he says, "Well, we were welcomed, it just wasn't a peaceful welcome." Pahleze! What was it then, a violent welcome?????

Spin, spin, spin and more spin! The continuing investigation into the CIA leak case will uncover more corruption, and dishones tactics used by Bush and company to launch us into war with lies.

Gayle in Md....the worst offense against America is for a president to lie about the facts that would put our country in a war.

Deeman3
12-13-2005, 10:04 AM
Gayle:

I was not leaving out any details. I was replying to what Sid had said about the President later telling us it will be time to withdraw from Iraq.

You just want a chance to spew your left wing accusations again. We have heard them. We don't believe them. Your saying the same old thing over and over does not make it true. Your predictions are about as good as Nostradamus.

Gayle in MD
12-13-2005, 03:53 PM
You are right, you don't believe what the whole world knows. My predictions have been right on regarding this administration lying to us, fixing intelligence, and using the right wing press to spread their propaganda, which they are still doing to this day.

You, my friend, are in the minority in this country, and in the world. The rest of the world knows that Bush fixed intelligence, and left out intelligence, polls show this to be true. And, as the investigations continue, you will be in the dubious position of having denied what the whole world knew all along....now he has the blood of 1.240 Americans, and thirty thousand Iraqis on his hands. Even his own party is backing away from his lies and destruction...

Gayle in Md. Rove will go down before Christmas....the bigger they come, the harder they fall.

Gayle in Md.