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Voodoo Daddy
06-27-2002, 02:34 AM
I'm put in a spot to almost choose between the two tournaments. One is the US Open...the GRAND-DADDY of tournaments, the oldest tournament in the US to date. A man wins here after 7 days, he is revered in the pool community forever. On the other hand there is the Derby City Classic, THE test of what a player is made of {all around that is} over 10 grueling days. One is sharp dress while the other is come-as-you-are. Now the question...which one would you rather win? Its not about money either, its about personal achievement. For me its simple, I would rather win the Derby City Classic all-around because of the multiple principals at hand. The US Open has a 256 player limit and they play one game. Last years Derby had 900+ competitors in 3 events and mini's alternating games {Banks, 1-hole and 9-ball} every night at midnight.

I'm not knocking the US Open by no means, I love the event and attended it for several years while it was still held in the pool room, then the Lake Wright...now I'm interested in your opinions. Choose one and tell me why.

Voodoo... stiring up the pot and asking for opinions.

Lester
06-27-2002, 05:22 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Voodoo Daddy:</font><hr> I'm put in a spot to almost choose between the two tournaments. One is the US Open...the GRAND-DADDY of tournaments, the oldest tournament in the US to date. A man wins here after 7 days, he is revered in the pool community forever. On the other hand there is the Derby City Classic, THE test of what a player is made of {all around that is} over 10 grueling days. One is sharp dress while the other is come-as-you-are. Now the question...which one would you rather win? Its not about money either, its about personal achievement. For me its simple, I would rather win the Derby City Classic all-around because of the multiple principals at hand. The US Open has a 256 player limit and they play one game. Last years Derby had 900+ competitors in 3 events and mini's alternating games {Banks, 1-hole and 9-ball} every night at midnight.

I'm not knocking the US Open by no means, I love the event and attended it for several years while it was still held in the pool room, then the Lake Wright...now I'm interested in your opinions. Choose one and tell me why.

Voodoo... stiring up the pot and asking for opinions. <hr></blockquote>That's easy Steve, The U.S.Open. It's the Holy Grail of pocket billiards. There is a revered list of every winner since it's inception. The Derby doesn't have that kind of pedigree ---- yet. But the Derby does have a reputation for unfettered action. The Derby's allure is more "a hustler's convention". JMHO ***Lester***

Kato
06-27-2002, 06:07 AM
I've got to say Voodoo, you bring up a very difficult choice. I've already made my decision for this year. Next year may be different. I think as far prestige goes it would have to be the U.S. Open. For all around insanity it would be the Derby City Classic. I'm going to the Open this year because of the CCB'ers that have commited to showing.

Kato

Jay M
06-27-2002, 06:51 AM
For me it's the US Open. Derby City is currently more about the gambling and money games than it is the tournament. The US Open is all about the game (with a few exceptions that head over to the room to gamble). To me, there isn't really a comparison. Of course, more than the US Open, I'd rather win in Cardiff /ccboard/images/icons/wink.gif but out of the choices, the Open is mine.

Jay M

Fred Agnir
06-27-2002, 07:00 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Voodoo Daddy:</font><hr> I'm put in a spot to almost choose between the two tournaments. <hr></blockquote>

US Open 9-ball Champion vs. Derby City All-Around Champion?

As a pool player, I think the Derby City All-Around gets the higher marks.

Fred &lt;~~~ like I'd have a chance

Tom_In_Cincy
06-27-2002, 07:09 AM
I am glad that both are available. And, I am also glad that I have plans to attend both.

Difficult for me to rank the two as to which one is superior.. but the US Open does draw more International Pros than the Derby does.. but not many more..

Ken
06-27-2002, 07:18 AM
That's easy Steve. The Derby City Classic. With the seeding at the Open the first 5 days don't amount to much. Now that the Behrmans have sold out to the UPA the seeding is determined by the Little Dictator. After what happened to Barry last year when he made the best of a very bad situation it is sad to see him in bed with them this year. They want the prize money in advance and a guarantee that it will go to them only. If they are really the best they don't need seeding. That takes away the prestige attached to a win.

Give me Derby City where there is variety, action and possibly some surprise in who excels in any particular discipline.

If you want to see the same old faces and talk to friends who might be manning exhibits go to the Open but make it a weekend trip and make the Big one Derby City.

I wonder if Matchroom is giving the money to the UPA in advance or did Matchroom get a bye on their counterproductive rules?

Of course, if you can win the Open as an unseeded player, that's got to be phenomenal. For a player there are many more chances to win at Derby City so why knock yourself out at the Open which is stacked against you?
KenCT

Chris Cass
06-27-2002, 08:43 AM
Hi Voodoo,

If I could only get off for one tournament. I would go to the Derby. I would only because of the variety of games played. It sounds like fun. As some put it as the place for hustlers. I'd have even more fun. I like and enjoy the players that are looking for cash and not recognition.

In defense of the U.S. Open. I'll say I will attend and play in the event before I die. Maybe just once but I definitly will. The other event I always wanted to play in was the Glass City Open. I've wanted to go every time.

Which ever event you choose. You'll have a good time, I'm sure. The CCB members will be attending both. I had a bug to take off with Jesse to Oklahoma lastnight. After thinking about it I didn't go. I wasn't prepared to go and that's key to going anywhere for me. Next time I'll be ready.

Regards,

C.C.~~will kidnap RJ, and take him to Louisville. lol also, knows how much Steve loves playing, watching and discussing 1 hole.

Eric.
06-27-2002, 08:54 AM
I think it's a toss up. Derby city has action out the wazoo with banks, one hole and 9 ball. You have all the side action and every road player you may or may not know is there BUT the U.S. Open is, well, it's the Open... I know a few CCB'ers are playing in the CCB open, I'll be there too. If I had to choose, I'm doing the Open because of the CCB Open.

Eric &gt;partying with the CCB'ers...

PoolFan
06-27-2002, 09:29 AM
This is one of the best questions I've seen posed on this site.

For me, if I could win one or the other, I would choose the US Open. The size of the field, the length of the races and most of all the Prestige of the event would be my reasoning. As someone else mentioned, it's the Holy Grail of pool events.

The All-Around Championship at the Derby City Classic is an honorable title and I'm sure over the years the prestige of that title will mean more and more.

These are the down falls that I find with both events.

US Open
- Test in 9-ball skills only.
- Seeded event which means handicapped event.

Derby City Classic
- Races are too short to determine the true best players
- Buy-back feature allows players to "Bye" their way into the finals

The unfortunate part about what I don't like with these events is that they are features I don't expect to change. Seeding the US Open ensures the best players make it to the later rounds for spectators. Short races for the Derby City Classic are needed due to time constraints.

As a spectator, I would rather go to the Derby City Classic. The action (tournament and side) is great, more variety in diciplines and the short races create alot of excitement. It brings you back yester-year, in the days of the Johnson City action and the Stardust tournaments.

PoolFan - Extremely happy that we have both events available to debate over.

sliprock
06-27-2002, 09:44 AM
That's a tough choice. I'd have to say that the Derby tourny would be my choice because of the different disciplines played and the need to play all games well in order to win the over-all title. Imo, there are several dozen players capable of winning the Open depending on the draw and getting a few rolls along the way. That number of potential winners decreases at the Derby tournament because the different games require different skills, and the number of players that have those extra skills is smaller. I guess what I'm saying is, fewer players have the game to win the Derby tournament than do the Open. JMO, Steve

Nostroke
06-27-2002, 10:52 AM
where can i get seeding info? I didnt know about this - im certainly not going for the whole thing now.

Scott Lee
06-27-2002, 11:04 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Ken:</font><hr> Now that the Behrmans have sold out to the UPA the seeding is determined by the Little Dictator.
KenCT <hr></blockquote>

Ken...Come on Ken! Don't hold back! Tell us how you REALLY feel! LOL I guess I'd have to agree, though!

Scott

06-27-2002, 11:06 AM
Ken, just for the record, the US Open has been seeded for at least the last three years. While the seeding may not have previously been decided by the UPA, it was there.

Actually, I am not sure it was "true" seeding, in that the #1 and #2 players, for example, were separated in brackets. But it was seeded in that the 64 chosen players were placed as such:

Player A
Player B

Player C
Seed

Player D
Player E

Player F
Seed

and so on...

- Steve

Ken
06-27-2002, 11:28 AM
I doubt that the info will be available soon. To get sanctioned by the UPA you must permit 32 of their players in and you must seed according to the UPA rankings. I guess you could figure it out now just by taking the present UPA rankings. I think they are having an event before the Open so that might change slightly.

Most of the seeds make it through the winners bracket. I don't remember when the round of 32 winners starts playing, probably Friday. There would be many left in the losers bracket to play also. KenCT

Nostroke
06-27-2002, 12:11 PM
I dont think i understand your last paragraph at all but if the "seeded players" dont join the tournament until day 5, that blows!!- That's a different tournament which im not all that interested in.

I emailed Brady and he read it but i have not received any explanation as of yet. Maybe he will post here.

I thought in the past, the seeded players didnt pay the $500 and little more. If they are spread out in the brackets, i don't mind that either but if they wait around til the field is whittled down and then jump in, I wont jump in as spectator til then either- if at all.

Jay M
06-27-2002, 12:27 PM
the way the seeding works is that one seeded player is placed into each 8 man or 16 man bracket. They play just as many games as everyone else, they just don't play each other until Thursday. They also pay their entry just like everyone else (in most cases anyhow, sometimes the event promoter will pay for a "name player"'s entry to entice them into playing a smaller tourney).

The US Open has been seeded for at least three years, last year the UPA rankings decided the seeds. That's not the UPA just "making up" rankings, but rather the top players in terms of points earned, just like Cardiff.

Jay M

Nostroke
06-27-2002, 12:44 PM
Thats terrific if thats the way it is.

I am pretty sure though that in the Mackey days, the seeds did not pay.

06-27-2002, 01:55 PM
Thats a new one! Open to all, All play EVEN! its the U.S.Open and thats how it will stay!

Thanks
Brady Behrman

06-27-2002, 01:58 PM
NOTHING has been signed. We will Not change our format just to be sanctioned. This has not even been discusseD!

Thanks
Brady

Ken
06-27-2002, 02:17 PM
The seeded players definately play all he way through. The UPA will require that none of its top 32 ranked players can meet in the winners bracket until it is down to 32. I believe that was on Friday last year. There will still be plenty of great games before that and probably a few upsets. Not all the great players are in the UPA but if you want to see some greats come out of the shadows to play I think you are more likely to see them at Derby City. The Open is suported mostly by the semi-pros and amateurs who probably think of it more as a vacation from work and a good time. Any system that is designed to get the big names playing on the weekend is also designed to knock the others out. If you're going to spend a week at a tournament why not at one where you get multiple chances to play all week long?

Well, if Brady says it isn't so I stand corrected and am glad of it. It sure looked like they were seeded last year and the UPA sanctioning rules require it now.
KenCT

Jay M
06-27-2002, 04:17 PM
In last year's open, they were seeded one per 16 player bracket. The seed in my bracket was Strickland (why is it I'm always in his bracket in seeded events). The seeds were a compilation of the UPA rankings and the BCA standings. As the BCA has recognized the UPA as the official ranking body (as has the WPA), I'd expect that seeds would use the UPA rankings.

Jay M

Tom_In_Cincy
06-27-2002, 04:30 PM
Jim,
If I am not mistaken, the UPA wasn't formed until Barry announced that the "added" was being reduced.

Let me know if I am off base, because I never saw or heard anything about UPA the entire week until the "added" situatioin came up.

Voodoo Daddy
06-27-2002, 05:30 PM
Thanks for all your responses, it didnt make my decision any easier...so I might just go to both...but only a couple days in Va. The whole way in Louisville for me...I guess the degenerate in me just shines out.

Voodoo...values all of your opinions, thanks.

Tom_In_Cincy
06-27-2002, 05:45 PM
VooDoo Daddy,
If you do decide to go to the Derby City Classic, You might want to consider getting into the Bank Pool tournament ($75 this year, last year it was $50) because it gets you a "players" badge and one "guest" badge, both good for admission to the entire touranment sessions. A considerable savings for daily admission costs for two people. Of course, this might change prior to the Jan 2003 start date.. But well worth the trip.. I will be there playing in the Banks and One Pocket tournaments.

Voodoo Daddy
06-27-2002, 06:05 PM
Thanks for the info Tom. I think by then I'll be ready to play in all three events and every mini at midnight. I'm going there to play hard and have some fun. We'll hook up at the open and plan some hooligan-type stuff...HAHAHAHAHA!!

Voodoo...aspires to beat at least one world beater a day

Jay M
06-27-2002, 11:23 PM
The UPA existed prior to the US Open last year. I'm not sure the exact time when it was formed, but I do know that their ranks were used in the seeding prior to the beginning of the tournament.

Jay M

Karatemom
06-28-2002, 06:42 AM
Hi Voodoo. It's a good thing they're not held at the same time. IMO, it's a matter of taste. If you're kind of laid back and carefree, I would choose the Derby City. The U.S. Open has it's name behind it, and maybe a little more prestige, depending on who you are. I would choose the Derby City Classic just because it seems like a more relaxed atmosphere, more comfortable environment for me. Most people I talk to, however, when I say the U.S. Open, ask me if I play golf, LOL. They just don't get it.

Heide ~ dreams of being that good someday

Tom_In_Cincy
06-28-2002, 06:48 AM
Both are a 'smoke free' tournament environment

PoolFan
06-28-2002, 07:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Brady Behrman:</font><hr> Thats a new one! Open to all, All play EVEN! its the U.S.Open and thats how it will stay!
<hr></blockquote>

I don't disagree with the facts that you just presented. Yes, the event is Open to everyone and the races are even. My point is when an event is seeded, the chart is put together to purposely ensure that the stronger players make it to the later round. This is understandable for a promoter to accommodate the fans and ensure a packed house in the finals. So my point to a seeded event is, it's designed to give the stronger players an added advantage to win the event. As a lesser skilled player, I would pay $500 just like everyone else, but I'm not getting a fair shake at the chart draw. Hence my idea of seeded events being handicapped.

Trust me, the US Open is the premiere event of the year in my eyes. I have more US Open Accu-Stat tapes than anything else. Obviously, based off my original e-mail, the US Open would be my tournament of choice to win. I just never liked seeding and never will in any sport.

PoolFan - Looking forward to the next US Open.

Chris Cass
06-28-2002, 08:04 AM
Hi Tom, well that ruined my day. What am I gonna do? My Southwest is on fire. hahahahahaha

Regards,

C.C.~~last week it was an ice cube

Tom_In_Cincy
06-28-2002, 08:17 AM
The good thing for smokers is;

The smoking ban is lifted, at the DCC, for after hours match ups.. from midnite til 11am..

And Q-Masters allows smoking 24x7..

Greg/Diamond
07-02-2002, 12:13 AM
I'm very honored and surprised for the Derby City Classic to be mentioned along side the US Open. It was not my intension to create an event that would conflict with a long term and prestigous event as the US Open. I view the Derby City Classic as something quite different and definitely don't want to place people in a spot like you are describing.........However, I understand the expences involved and especially the limited amount of TIME one can allocate for their love of the game............ I'm not responding to try and steer you to my tournament, but I would like to take this oportunity to point out a couple of differences. I did't create the DCC to become a stop on any Pro Tour, rather my efforts have been directed to create an event the way I would like it. This could well be viewed as selfish, but so be it......................I've been attending tournaments since the last couple of Johnson City Tournaments. I have to admit even though I've seen many great matches and with the exception of a few tournaments, I've felt something has been missing..... ..........I would go to many great tournaments and after the matches were over for the day sometimes I'd have to retire to the motel room and watch TV or drive all over town to find a place to play pool........... I understand what many promoters are facing and can understand there will be a time (hopefully) when TV and big money will demand tables closed for action. However for me, I want to see all the action I can see. I don't want to drive several hours or fly to an event without being totally entertained. Whether by betting, playing, watching or just stiring up action. I want something to satisfy my POOL FIX................Besides Action I feel strongly on the Master of the table concept. That's why I'm doubling the prize to $10,000 for the all round Master................I just finished watching the Pride fighting tournament on cable and have really noticed how well rounded the fighters have become. They have cross trained and now boxers can wrestle, do submissions and all kinds of other fighting diciplines, making them much more dangerous and exciting. There's a lesson to be learned here. If a 9 ball player would spend more time learning other games as bank pool or one pocket it would definitely improve their 9 ball................There are many other things I'm trying to accomplish at the DCC and I'd be glad to elaborate if anyone is interested. Sometime I'd like to explain the reasons for the formatt I'm using and the buy back option. I'll bet the answeer I'd give is not what you would have expected. Anyway it's been a long day.......gotta go......Greg/Diamond




tv

Voodoo Daddy
07-02-2002, 01:38 AM
Greg, we met several times...most recent in South Florida during the now defunct Billiard Channel Tour. In my eyes and the few short years in exsistence{sp} your DCC has made quite an impact on tournement pool. It puts several hundred players that normally wouldnt be together in the same area code and I thank you for it...Looking foward to January 3-12,2003.


Steve Ferraro {aka} Voodoo