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View Full Version : BCA rule 3.40 clairfication



tangle1
12-18-2005, 07:59 PM
CUE BALL IN HAND FOUL - During cue ball in hand placemnet, is it legal to use the tip of the cue to push or roll the cue ball forward as long as you don't stroke the cue ball? The current interpretation in our league is that if you move the cue ball forward with tip of the cue during placing the cue ball it is a foul.

tdurden87
12-18-2005, 09:18 PM
From my experience, I believe that as long as you don't stroke at the cue ball when positioning it, then it is not considered a foul. I know that I've read this somewhere- I will try to find it and post it.

Dagwood
12-18-2005, 10:30 PM
The interpretation of this rule varies from location to location, kind of like 8 ball rules. Some places feel that as long as you aren't stroking into the cue ball, it's not a foul. Other places and tours though, consider any contact of the leather of the tip to the cue ball as a foul. This would allow you to use the shaft and ferrule to roll the cue ball around to where you want it.
Some places though, you can't even do that, as any contact at all of the cue to the cue ball is considered a foul. The best policy is either not to use your cue to position the cue ball, or inquire as to how that particular rule is interpreted where you are playing.

Dags

supergreenman
12-18-2005, 10:38 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Dagwood:</font><hr> The interpretation of this rule varies from location to location, kind of like 8 ball rules. Some places feel that as long as you aren't stroking into the cue ball, it's not a foul. Other places and tours though, consider any contact of the leather of the tip to the cue ball as a foul. This would allow you to use the shaft and ferrule to roll the cue ball around to where you want it.
Some places though, you can't even do that, as any contact at all of the cue to the cue ball is considered a foul. The best policy is either not to use your cue to position the cue ball, or inquire as to how that particular rule is interpreted where you are playing.

Dags <hr /></blockquote>

I would concur with this, and advise in order to avoid any problems, use your hands, that's what god gave them to you for.

James

Billy_Bob
12-19-2005, 08:36 AM
Some people like to win by any nit picky stretching of rules they can come up with and will call foul any chance they get.

*These people have not read the rules!* And they will be misinformed about the rules! They will say "so-and-so" told me it is a foul, so therefore it is a foul. You can hand them a copy of the rulebook and they will not read it.

I have seen a person like this call a foul on a player because he was positioning the cue ball with his cue. Then there was quite an argument between both teams. Kind of ruined the evening.

Probably best to use your hand to position the ball.

So far as I am concerned, I look at the "spirit of the rules", what was intended when they wrote the rules.

For example in APA there is a rule that you must mark your pocket before shooting the 8 in 8-ball. Well sometimes someone does not mark their pocket, but the shot is obvious, so I give them the win and just tell them they should mark the pocket.

I don't want to win by calling fouls like this on people. That is not winning in my book. (Of course if the 8 bounced out of the obvious pocket and went elsewhere, and the person tried to claim that was where they were intending, and pocket was not marked, then I would not give them the win. This is the "intention" of the rule.)

McKinneyMiner
12-19-2005, 10:18 AM
When I was playing collegiately in the early 1990's we had a huge rhubarb about this at the Regional Tournament at the University of Houston.

Two players actually got into a fight about this and they stopped the tournament to have a player's meeting. The tournament directors decided that it would be a foul to touch the cue ball with EITHER the tip or the ferrule prior to taking a stroke.

Since that day I almost always position the ball with my hand in organized play.

SPetty
12-19-2005, 10:47 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote supergreenman:</font><hr> I would concur with this, and advise in order to avoid any problems, use your hands, that's what god gave them to you for.<hr /></blockquote>Huh... All my life I've been wondering what these things with all the fingers at the bottom of my arms are for - now I know - they're to move a cue ball!

That was just a funny thing you said.

I concur that the best way to position the cue ball is with your hands only, although I don't always practice it. I often will put the cue ball down and then fine tune it with the side of my cue - never the tip - but I'm trying to remember to use only my hand.

At the recent IPT tournament in Orlando, it was a foul to touch the cue ball with any part of your cue (other than the tip when shooting of course). I saw several players get called on a foul when they were positioning the cue ball and then did that last little fine tune with their cue. I don't like that rule and it made my stomach turn every time the foul was called.

supergreenman
12-19-2005, 01:02 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> Huh... All my life I've been wondering what these things with all the fingers at the bottom of my arms are for - now I know - they're to move a cue ball!

That was just a funny thing you said. <hr /></blockquote>

/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif oh yeah, I forgot. They're also for holding a cue, making a bridge, and driving your car to the pool hall. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Bob_Jewett
12-19-2005, 02:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> ... At the recent IPT tournament in Orlando, it was a foul to touch the cue ball with any part of your cue (other than the tip when shooting of course). I saw several players get called on a foul when they were positioning the cue ball and then did that last little fine tune with their cue. I don't like that rule and it made my stomach turn every time the foul was called.
<hr /></blockquote>
That rule was removed on the second or third day.

SPetty
12-19-2005, 03:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> ... At the recent IPT tournament in Orlando, it was a foul to touch the cue ball with any part of your cue (other than the tip when shooting of course). I saw several players get called on a foul when they were positioning the cue ball and then did that last little fine tune with their cue. I don't like that rule and it made my stomach turn every time the foul was called.<hr /></blockquote>That rule was removed on the second or third day.<hr /></blockquote>I don't think so. You know how stupid it was when they called that foul on Gabe Owen BEFORE his game even started? He was just swooshing the cue ball across the table using the side of his cue to propel it in preparation to pick it up and place the cue ball by hand when a referee who was just happening by stopped to call a foul. That rule was changed so that it would not be a foul until after the break shot, but fine-tuning the cue ball with your cue, I'm pretty sure, still remained a foul. I saw that foul called after that ruling change. AND, you never saw anyone else the last few days using their cue to position the cue ball. If the rule had been rescinded, I think you would have seen them using their cue again, like they normally do.

edit: But if I am mistaken and they really did rescind that rule, good! It was a silly rule. I asked the ref why they made that rule and he said because if they're moving the cue ball with their cue and it slips, they might foul. And I'm thinking, yeah, IF they do, it would be a foul!

Bob_Jewett
12-19-2005, 03:53 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> ... You know how stupid it was when they called that foul on Gabe Owen BEFORE his game even started? He was just swooshing the cue ball across the table using the side of his cue to propel it in preparation to pick it up and place the cue ball by hand when a referee who was just happening by stopped to call a foul. ... <hr /></blockquote>
It was Gabe who told me the rule had been cancelled. I may have the revised rule sheet somewhere....

SPetty
12-20-2005, 08:34 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> It was Gabe who told me the rule had been cancelled. I may have the revised rule sheet somewhere.... <hr /></blockquote>hahahaha - it was Gabe who told me the rule (about the foul that had been called on him while swooshing the cue ball before the game had started) had been cancelled, just before the game in which he called the "adjust the cue ball with the side of your cue" foul on the player he was playing at the time! /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif