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View Full Version : New player thinks sharking is way to win...



Billy_Bob
12-19-2005, 09:58 AM
I've been playing a guy in a bar who is somewhat good at playing. I think he has a lot of potential.

The only problem with this guy is he thinks part of winning is "psyching out" your opponent! He has told me this is part of his "strategy to win".

So he is trying to shark, but does not know how to "properly" shark (as I have seen others do this in the past). What he does, is when it is my turn to shoot, he will tell me which shot I am going to make in an attempt to disrupt my concentration.

I'm wondering if I should give him some advice on this or not?

My options are...

A. Do nothing, just ignore his silliness and be amused by his antics.

B. Teach him how to "properly" shark. i.e. If you're going to shark, might as well do it right, stand in front of pocket, rattle keys, etc. (My thinking here is one of these days, he is going to pull this on the wrong person and get a lesson!)

C. Ask where he wants to go with his pool playing. If he wants to eventually play league or money tournaments, tell him that he will not be able to do these things at tournaments, so best to practice playing and work on winning with skill rather than winning by sharking, etc. Tell him about regional league tournaments where there is a ref who will not allow this nonsense, etc.

killerstroke
12-19-2005, 10:13 AM
IMO you do nothing. Why stoop to his level, let alone you even considered teaching him how to shark. Are you saying you must do this to win? I don't understand why people can't just sit back and watch, shoot if its your turn and shake hands when the game is over. I would get more satisfaction not shooting the shot he calls, safe him to death, get him frustrated and kick his a$$.

Chopstick
12-19-2005, 11:21 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy_Bob:</font><hr>
B. Teach him how to "properly" shark. i.e. If you're going to shark, might as well do it right,
<hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">The first thing that both of you should do is read the rules. </font color>

3.41 INTERFERENCE
If the non-shooting player distracts his opponent or interferes with his play, <font color="red"> he has fouled. </font color> If a player shoots out of turn, or moves any ball except during his inning, it is considered to be interference.

Drop1
12-19-2005, 11:31 AM
The way you handle it is to stop,look him in the eye,and ask him if he is sure that is the shot to go for,and when he says yes,ask him are you sure you are sure.At this point he will be a little irritated. Thats when you ask him again is that the shot to shot. He will say some thing like "pick your shot,and lets play" At that point hand him your cue,and tell him "here Ahole you shoot it." Be sure its a house cue. Call him stick,like "Its your shot stick" When he misses,say "I saw that coming" If he asks if you have a problem tell him,only his breath. He won't play you again,but do you care? Important such conversation can lead to a severe beating.

Rich R.
12-19-2005, 11:47 AM
The best thing you can do for this guy is, advise him that sharking is totally unacceptable and it can be dangerous. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Billy
12-19-2005, 01:33 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy_Bob:</font><hr> I've been playing a guy in a bar who is somewhat good at playing. I think he has a lot of potential.

The only problem with this guy is he thinks part of winning is "psyching out" your opponent! He has told me this is part of his "strategy to win".

So he is trying to shark, but does not know how to "properly" shark (as I have seen others do this in the past). What he does, is when it is my turn to shoot, he will tell me which shot I am going to make in an attempt to disrupt my concentration.

I'm wondering if I should give him some advice on this or not?

My options are...

A. Do nothing, just ignore his silliness and be amused by his antics.

B. Teach him how to "properly" shark. i.e. If you're going to shark, might as well do it right, stand in front of pocket, rattle keys, etc. (My thinking here is one of these days, he is going to pull this on the wrong person and get a lesson!)

C. Ask where he wants to go with his pool playing. If he wants to eventually play league or money tournaments, tell him that he will not be able to do these things at tournaments, so best to practice playing and work on winning with skill rather than winning by sharking, etc. Tell him about regional league tournaments where there is a ref who will not allow this nonsense, etc.
<hr /></blockquote>

I would shark him back.

start by telling him how the proof of a dime shaped radius is

then hit him with occasionally shooting stupid shots

if that doesn't work ask him how much knowledge he's learned without an instructor, how many books does he read, videos he sees, the equipment

and if all else fails Billy_Bob ... show him how to ride the nine! yahooooo

by now his head should be spinnin' and should be totally helpless. good job

jmo

Fran Crimi
12-19-2005, 01:47 PM
I like the rule approach....Next time he does it, call him on a foul and take ball in hand. When he protests, hand him a copy of the rule.

Fran

wolfdancer
12-19-2005, 02:38 PM
Fran, I like your approach.....I'll try that next time.
I usually just say ....you should try to win, when it's your turn at the table.
I also can't stand the guy that has to keep popping out of the chair, to check out your position. I usually just go over and sit down when they do that, and ask them....what do you think, cut it, or bank it?

Bob_Jewett
12-19-2005, 03:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> Fran, I like your approach.....I'll try that next time.
... <hr /></blockquote>
I think this technique (calling a foul for sharking) depends on the relative sizes of the two players. Billy_bob may also want to check his opponent for the number of visible scars on his face and hands before calling the foul.

killerstroke
12-19-2005, 08:18 PM
Let's all remember that this is happening in a bar. I'm assuming the game is hit your ball first and call pocket, no ball in hand. Calling a foul in a bar might cause some trouble let alone make yourself look like an a$$. That's why I prefer to keep my mouth shut and just beat him to get him off the table. I totally agree and like the rule idea if in a pool hall or a tournament.

PHJ314
12-20-2005, 08:25 AM
We have some A-holes at our pool hall as well, but generally most people are respectful.

If it's tournament or league play, call a Ref. If it is deemed un-sportsmanlike conduct, he will be disqualified.

If your playing for money against this guy the solution is quite easy, and I've used it on numerous occasions even in home town rough and tumble bars, never got my a$$ kicked but had to throw a few games to ensure so on a couple occasions. So if this is a money game and he's telling you what to do, just look at him and ask "Aren't we playing for money?", when he says yes, Then politely tell him "Well Please, sit down and be quiet.", Should he persist in his "sharking tactics", get up on him for a few bucks and tell him your done playing. Next time he wants to play tell him "no thanks", if he continues to bug you to play ask him if he's willing to show some etiquette around the table.

If this is a money game there has to be some degree of respect when playing, allowing the other player to shoot without disruptions(this should include asking other non playing people to kindly move if they are interfering with the game, even while your opponent is at the table.)

If I personally encountered someone like this I just wouldn't play them(and there are people I do this to), and if they asked why not I'd blatantly tell them why. I'm too proud of a pool player to have someone heckling me while I'm at the table. It's disrespectful to you and the game alike, and it's un-sportsmanlike which I personally have absolutely no time for!!!!

Good luck Bob! Hope this helps!

Billy_Bob
12-20-2005, 08:26 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote killerstroke:</font><hr> IMO you do nothing. Why stoop to his level, let alone you even considered teaching him how to shark. Are you saying you must do this to win?... <hr /></blockquote>

I am able to win most games against this guy. Actually I let him win a few so he will keep playing me. His sharking does not affect my game, it is amusing though.

I don't shark period. I feel I would be cheating myself if I had to win games by making my opponent shoot worse.

Actually I prefer that they play their best game. And I am quite good at letting someone win a few, telling them good shot every now and then, and building them up. Then they play their best game, have a lot of confidence, and I have stiffer competition. So better for me to play tougher opponents.

This guy is doing the opposite, getting his opponents to play their worst game so he can win. So I feel he is cheating himself in the long run.

And correct this is *bar* play, so I can't call a "foul".

I think if he asks for help or tips, I'll just work it into whatever I say, that I don't shark and then give him my reasons for not sharking. And if he does not ask for help, then I will not say anything.

Billy_Bob
12-20-2005, 08:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote PHJ314:</font><hr> ...If this is a money game there has to be some degree of respect when playing, allowing the other player to shoot without disruptions(this should include asking other non playing people to kindly move if they are interfering with the game, even while your opponent is at the table.)... <hr /></blockquote>

I agree totally. However I am fairly new to playing money games one-on-one (just getting good enough to start doing this), so for now, I think I would like the experience of being sharked in that situation. I become immune after enough of this.

I have played many money tournaments and have had this happen, and am now immune to most of their tactics.

Actually I like it when I play someone new at a money tournament and they start sharking me. I figure they need to do that to win because they can't play very good, and that I will probably win. This is usually the case.

And what this guy is doing is new to me, i.e. telling me what my next shot will be. Have not seen that one before.

Anyway he says he does not play for money. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Sid_Vicious
12-20-2005, 08:50 AM
"I don't shark period."

Do you ever play safeties on purpose when you know that the guy gets frustrated with intentional safeties? I do sometimes, and yet it in itself is a form of sharking, yet it does assure me of the best chance of winning, both in the percentage of BIH and with his balance of emotion. To some degree, pool is partially sharking by nature. We just let our conscious avoid that fact. Actually these aspect of the sport of pool is getting to be what I really like.

Sid

wolfdancer
12-20-2005, 09:03 AM
Bob, this thread reminded me of the first time I played at
Gino &amp; Carlo's(SF) annual 9 ball tournament.
My friend and I were unknown there, and when I won my first match...I heard some "who are these guys"
That match was my eve highlite......but my friend was playing good, and reached the semi's. Now he's the last guy to complain about anything, and had no clue about sharking...and, he's down on a key shot in the match, when one of the other guy's friends, I assume, decides to read the sunday comics, using the pool table lights for illumination. this required leaning over my pal's shoulders, somewhat. and while he later said it didn't bother him....he missed badly.
I've seen a lot of "moves" during a match....ain't never seen one like this...
Heard that pool is not so big there now....and got a kick out of these Reviews:
"If you are in North Beach and looking to play pool and to a real life tough guy (or girl) bar but not have to back it up, go to Gino and Carlo's."
"talk about feeling a part of SF history! this perfect tiny no-frills italian bar still has a few old mobster guys sitting at the bar looking surly.(not kidding)"
Hey, maybe he did the smart thing...by not complaining...

PHJ314
12-20-2005, 09:04 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy_Bob:</font><hr> So he is trying to shark, but does not know how to "properly" shark (as I have seen others do this in the past). What he does, is when it is my turn to shoot, he will tell me which shot I am going to make in an attempt to disrupt my concentration.<hr /></blockquote>

Sorry I misunderstood, but regardless his attitude is all wrong, I wouldn't bother playing the guy. But if it's just for fun, and he is telling you this, you could try to annoy him back, play with your opposite hand, you'll miss plenty of shots, but hey it's good practice!

Billy_Bob
12-20-2005, 09:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> Do you ever play safeties on purpose when you know that the guy gets frustrated with intentional safeties?...<hr /></blockquote>

No. Generally if I am playing in a bar or in a bar money tournament, and my opponent does not know how to play safeties, I will not play them or only one or two per game.

If I win all the time in friendly *bar* play, no one will play me anymore. If I win by leaving them without a shot, they will stop playing me with a quickness. If I want players in bars to keep playing me, I have to let them win a few.

And in many cases, I need to miss on purpose many times during a game and leave the cue ball so they have an easy shot. It is a lot more work to get some of these players to win their games than for me to runout. Last night I had to set a guy up 3 times with short straight in shots to the corner before he made his last ball. It was quite difficult to miss my shot and leave the cue ball in a good position for his shot. (I live in a rural area and sometimes there is only one person to play at the local bar.)

If it is league, then all is fair in love and war. Except if it is a new player who can't make any balls, then I won't play any safeties and will sometimes miss on purpose and leave them with an easy shot. I feel it is good to encourage beginners to play in league, be helpful with rules, etc. Make it a fun and friendly match. Then you get more people playing in the league. And I would rather have a fun night than a nasty night.

If it is a regional league tournament, then safeties to the max! These players will runout if I miss a shot or leave them with a shot.

Eric.
12-20-2005, 10:26 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy_Bob:</font><hr>
C. Ask where he wants to go with his pool playing. If he wants to eventually play league or money tournaments, tell him that he will not be able to do these things at tournaments, so best to practice playing and work on winning with skill rather than winning by sharking, etc. Tell him about regional league tournaments where there is a ref who will not allow this nonsense, etc.
<hr /></blockquote>

How bout:

D. Save the weak shark tactics and smash the 9 ball around the table every chance he gets. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif


Eric &gt;j/k

crookedcue
12-21-2005, 03:45 PM
having read a book recently on the mental aspects of pool,i realized i was sharking opponents.ive since changed the way i am around the table.i dont want to win by sharking..i know im good enough to do it on skill.but if someone were to do it to me,id definately say something!