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twilight
12-20-2005, 02:10 AM
I stopped playing pool for 4 years and just started a few weeks ago. Today I was shooting and some guy was trying to tell me that I was inconsistent because I was aiming at the wrong part of the pocket. Honestly I think I was inconsistent because my stroke has deteriorated. He told me to aim like this.

Imagine the CB on the foot spot and the OB on the center spot. Which ever corner pocket I choose to shoot at, he told me to aim about 1/4 of an inch closer to the long rail than directly at the center of the pocket. If I shot slow, I had to aim 1/2 inch closer to the long rail, so much in fact, that the edge of the OB would hit the point. I think he was compensating for throw perhaps. What do you think?

I have never really thought about compensating for throw by deliberately aiming off center. I only do that when I want to cheat the pocket. If I want to compensate for throw, I aim center pocket then adjust the contact point of the object ball. I'm going to disregard english and any deflection from english and just ask about center line shots. Do most people aim thin and not at center pocket to compensate for throw? Am I making things harder for myself aiming center pocket then adjusting the contact point on the OB?

Maybe I should just go back to cuetech...

randyg
12-20-2005, 07:12 AM
Murphy is in.

Doors are open Twilight....randyg

wolfdancer
12-20-2005, 08:15 AM
Back to Cuetech??????
I ain't been there yet...my S.A.T.S(savings account total score) is too low to qualify for admission......
but, I doubt if they taught you to "hit 'em where they ain't"
Why aim at a rail, if you intend to hit a pocket?...on some tables though, with generous pockets,hitting the rail just before the pocket,with a soft stroke...will allow you to pocket the ball.

SPetty
12-20-2005, 09:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote twilight:</font><hr> ...he told me to aim about 1/4 of an inch closer to the long rail than directly at the center of the pocket.

I aim center pocket then adjust the contact point of the object ball.<hr /></blockquote>I don't understand randyg's answer, but maybe that's because I'm not sure of your question. I don't understand the distinction you're trying to make between changing the aiming point on the rail and changing the contact point on the object ball.

Could someone help explain so I understand what the issue is? I don't get it because to me it's the same thing.

Scott_The_Shot
12-20-2005, 09:51 AM
Hi Twilight,
I aim for the front center of the pocket drop (unless cheating the pocket). Not the back of the pocket. If you aim for the back of the pocket you will hit the "point" of the long rail, where this guy is telling you to aim.... Hmmm..

Eric.
12-20-2005, 09:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote twilight:</font><hr> Today I was shooting and some guy was trying to tell me that I was inconsistent because I was aiming at the wrong part of the pocket. <hr /></blockquote>

I think your friend was right that you should be aiming at a certain part of the pocket. Depending on the cut, you should be aiming for the "pro" side of the pocket:

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html

START(
%AV4E8%BK9\6%EO0]8%JM0^9%LK3^4%NL3]8%OJ9^7%Pf3K1%WD1C9%XU3E6

)END

or

START(
%AH8N5%BK9\6%EO0]8%JM0^9%LK3^4%NL3]8%OJ9^7%P`3T0%WD2C9%XH4M7

)END

If you hit inside the far side of the pocket, the ball always falls, no matter how tight the pocket. If you catch the near side rail on the way to the pocket, there is always a chance that you will bobble the ball and hang it in the pocket.


Eric

Sid_Vicious
12-20-2005, 11:01 AM
SPetty...I was once told to aim at the back "notch" instead of the conceived open girth, when shooting in angled shots into the side pockets, not sure who told me, but as I recollect it was a worthy player. The poster here is indicating that with the corners an aim point toward the front side(nearer to you) of the corner is best for aim on the layout he indicated, and I assume because you don't need to compensate as much for the cling and throw after contact. It makes valid sense to me, especially with med to slow strokes. I'll try and remember to use it for a few practice sessions soon...sid

SpiderMan
12-20-2005, 11:40 AM
Yes - it sounds as if he was offering suggestions for throw compensation, especially since he was increasing the compensation for slower shots.

SpiderMan

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote twilight:</font><hr> I stopped playing pool for 4 years and just started a few weeks ago. Today I was shooting and some guy was trying to tell me that I was inconsistent because I was aiming at the wrong part of the pocket. Honestly I think I was inconsistent because my stroke has deteriorated. He told me to aim like this.

Imagine the CB on the foot spot and the OB on the center spot. Which ever corner pocket I choose to shoot at, he told me to aim about 1/4 of an inch closer to the long rail than directly at the center of the pocket. If I shot slow, I had to aim 1/2 inch closer to the long rail, so much in fact, that the edge of the OB would hit the point. I think he was compensating for throw perhaps. What do you think?

I have never really thought about compensating for throw by deliberately aiming off center. I only do that when I want to cheat the pocket. If I want to compensate for throw, I aim center pocket then adjust the contact point of the object ball. I'm going to disregard english and any deflection from english and just ask about center line shots. Do most people aim thin and not at center pocket to compensate for throw? Am I making things harder for myself aiming center pocket then adjusting the contact point on the OB?

Maybe I should just go back to cuetech... <hr /></blockquote>

Scott_The_Shot
12-20-2005, 12:33 PM
Depending on the cut, you should be aiming for the "pro" side of the pocket:

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html

START(
%AV4E8%BK9\6%EO0]8%JM0^9%LK3^4%NL3]8%OJ9^7%Pf3K1%WD1C9%XU3E6

)END

or

START(
%AH8N5%BK9\6%EO0]8%JM0^9%LK3^4%NL3]8%OJ9^7%P`3T0%WD2C9%XH4M7

)END
<hr /></blockquote>
From the mental picture in my head, the "pro" side of the pocket would be the short rail side of the pocket. If he is compensating for throw, shouldn't he aim closer to the short rail side of the pocket (using outside english)? wei table doesnot work on my PC BTW.

Sid_Vicious
12-20-2005, 12:36 PM
START(
%AO3O5%BK9\6%EO0]8%JM0^9%LK3^4%NL3]8%OJ9^7%Pg4O1%WE5Z9%XN7P1

)END


Sounds like this was his concept. Any thoughts with this layout? Still the pro side? Tia...sid

Eric.
12-20-2005, 12:54 PM
Personally, on that kind of spot shot, I'm aiming for the middle of the pocket(straight shot into the hole).

BTW, the "pro" side on that shot would be this:

START(
%AO3O5%BK9\6%EO0]8%JM0^9%LK3^4%NL3]8%OJ9^7%Pg4O1%WC9Z7%XN7P1

)END


Eric

Eric.
12-20-2005, 01:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott_The_Shot:</font><hr>

From the mental picture in my head, the "pro" side of the pocket would be the short rail side of the pocket. If he is compensating for throw, shouldn't he aim closer to the short rail side of the pocket (using outside english)? wei table doesnot work on my PC BTW.

<hr /></blockquote>

Basically, I was saying to cut the OB to the far side of the pocket. For example, if the OB is sitting about 1 diamond off the side rail, near the side pocket and the cb is on the head spot, that shot should be played with the OB hitting the far pocket facing of the corner pocket.


Eric

Cornerman
12-20-2005, 01:28 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote twilight:</font><hr> Imagine the CB on the foot spot and the OB on the center spot. Which ever corner pocket I choose to shoot at, he told me to aim about 1/4 of an inch closer to the long rail than directly at the center of the pocket.<hr /></blockquote> That's about right.

[ QUOTE ]
Do most people aim thin and not at center pocket to compensate for throw? Am I making things harder for myself aiming center pocket then adjusting the contact point on the OB?<hr /></blockquote> I think most people who have a good handle on collision-induced throw will aim thinner for centerball shots (consciously or sub-consciously). And yes, I think you're making it harder by adjusting the contact point on the cueball. It's optically more challenging, IMO.

Fred

dr_dave
12-20-2005, 01:43 PM
twilight,

I agree with Spiderman that it sounds like throw compensation. FYI, there is a bunch of info about different throw effects under "throw" in the threads summary area of my website (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/threads.html). You might find some of the information useful and interesting.

Regards,
Dave

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote twilight:</font><hr> I stopped playing pool for 4 years and just started a few weeks ago. Today I was shooting and some guy was trying to tell me that I was inconsistent because I was aiming at the wrong part of the pocket. Honestly I think I was inconsistent because my stroke has deteriorated. He told me to aim like this.

Imagine the CB on the foot spot and the OB on the center spot. Which ever corner pocket I choose to shoot at, he told me to aim about 1/4 of an inch closer to the long rail than directly at the center of the pocket. If I shot slow, I had to aim 1/2 inch closer to the long rail, so much in fact, that the edge of the OB would hit the point. I think he was compensating for throw perhaps. What do you think?

I have never really thought about compensating for throw by deliberately aiming off center. I only do that when I want to cheat the pocket. If I want to compensate for throw, I aim center pocket then adjust the contact point of the object ball. I'm going to disregard english and any deflection from english and just ask about center line shots. Do most people aim thin and not at center pocket to compensate for throw? Am I making things harder for myself aiming center pocket then adjusting the contact point on the OB?

Maybe I should just go back to cuetech... <hr /></blockquote>

twilight
12-20-2005, 02:02 PM
Randy, maybe when I save up some money I'll be back. My 4 year hiatus was due to going back to college.

SPetty, In a sense you're right, it is almost the same thing. Except in my case, my reference point is always center pocket as bound by the points and at the drop of the pocket as seen directly behind the OB looking at the intended pocket. (like Scott's center pocket) From here the spot on the OB always points to center of the pocket (not back pocket). This is my reference point and I adjust that depending on speed. In the other guy's case, he doesn't need a reference point on the OB. His spot on the OB always changes because his reference point is on the pocket and he adjusts that pocket spot.

It's more of a way of thinking I guess. I look at center pocket, find the impact spot on the OB then adjust that depending on my speed and angle of the shot. He knows the angle of the shot and speed, then picks a spot off center of the pocket and determines the contact point on the OB.

Eric, that code seems messed up on my computer, I think you're trying to give me a diagram but I just see a racked table.

Cornerman, after much thought I think you're right. There are just so many object ball spots that keep changing when I add in humidity, dirty balls, english, etc. I guess that other guy factors all that in, and depending on all of that, looks at the part of the pocket to aim, then finally decides on the contact spot on the OB. I do it in a funny order that might be more optically challenging.

SPetty
12-20-2005, 03:01 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote twilight:</font><hr> Eric, that code seems messed up on my computer, I think you're trying to give me a diagram but I just see a racked table.<hr /></blockquote>Thanks, twilight, I think I get it now. I don't really know how I do it - I think I more favor your friend's method of choosing a different aiming point rather than choosing a different spot on the object ball.

As for the wei table - you're almost there. Now that you've got the table pulled up, copy the "gibberish code" from START to END (highlight -&gt; rt mouse click -&gt; copy) and then hit the green PASTE button on the wei web page.

Cool, eh?

You too can share diagrams by simply rearranging the balls and arrows and dots and things and press the red COPY button to get the "gibberrish code" to paste into your post. It is always nice etiquette to include a link to the wei page when you post wei codes.

wolfdancer
12-20-2005, 03:37 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks, twilight, I think I get it now. I don't really know how I do it - I think I more favor your friend's method of choosing a different aiming point rather than choosing a different spot on the object ball. <hr /></blockquote>

Don't go down that road....it's the path to pool perdition, pardon the pun....or is that alliteration?

twilight
12-21-2005, 12:34 AM
wow that pool table thingy is great! The guy I met said to do it this way, which makes sense.

START(
%AQ3M3%BK9\6%EO0]8%JM0^9%LK3^4%NL3]8%OJ9^7%Pe8M3%WD6C7%XQ2M0

)END

for near the rail shots however, he said do it like this.

START(
%AV4E8%BK9\6%EO0]8%JM0^9%LK3^4%NL3]8%OJ9^7%Pf3K1%WD9C6%XV1E6

)END

which is different from what he was saying earlier. On this shot, he said it is better to drive the OB into the point of the long rail because it will "give" a little. If I hit the shim on the short rail, it will rattle the ball. Everything he's said is starting to make sense, except this final peice of the puzzle.

Gerry
12-21-2005, 04:19 AM
I'm not sure if it's working for you but, I would never aim to hit any part of the point on the way into the pocket. In your example, I'd aim to hit the left side going in, like this...

START(
%AV4E8%BK9\6%EO0]8%JM0^9%LK3^4%NL3]8%OJ9^7%Pf3K1%WD6D1%XV1E6

)END

Don't forget, when this shot is hit with center ball, a little contact spin (counter clockwise in this case) is put on the object ball, which will help to spin the ball into the pocket when hitting the far side going in. The opposite is true if you hit the long rail side going in keeping the ball from pocketing........have fun...Gerry

Cornerman
12-21-2005, 07:09 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote twilight:</font><hr> START(
%AV4E8%BK9\6%EO0]8%JM0^9%LK3^4%NL3]8%OJ9^7%Pf3K1%WD9C6%XV1E6

)END

which is different from what he was saying earlier. On this shot, he said it is better to drive the OB into the point of the long rail because it will "give" a little. If I hit the shim on the short rail, it will rattle the ball. Everything he's said is starting to make sense, except this final peice of the puzzle.
<hr /></blockquote>This is a different scenario and is pocket sensitive. Some pocket just won't take that shot as shown.

Fred

SPetty
12-21-2005, 07:19 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote twilight:</font><hr> wow that pool table thingy is great!<hr /></blockquote>Yep, wei is my hero. It is always nice etiquette to include a link to the wei page when you post wei codes.