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Drop1
12-24-2005, 06:34 PM
Was he a money player,or is it all hype because he was a celebrity?

Fran Crimi
12-24-2005, 07:29 PM
A friend of mine who passed away knew Gleason very well from the old neighborhood. He wasn't very complimentary about the man, in more ways than one.

My friend's name was Bob Duddleston, who Gleason said goodnight to every time he closed his bartender sketch on his show. His "G'nite Duddy" was for Bob.

Anyway, Bob said that Gleason wasn't a very good player. He liked 14.1 but he could barely run a rack. The first several years after he made it big, he'd return to Brooklyn to hang out with the old crowd once a year. They'd of course, go to a poolroom. Duddy (Bob) said Gleason would never pick up a tab, even after he was a multi-millionaire and he never even bought his old friends a cup of coffee. He was as cheap as they came. Duddy also said that Gleason would get really furious if any of them beat him in pool, which was easy to do. After a few temper tantrums, they all just let him win to shut him up.

Fran

freddythebeard
12-25-2005, 05:07 AM
For awhile Gleason based his TV show in Miami. While down there he went off only once. A short stop named Jimmy Jackson beat him for a couple thousand. It is the only recorded instance of him blowing any money down there playing pool. His gambling career ended at that point. He speed was such: he could run a rack and a half (21 balls) periodically.
the Beard
Merry Xmas, and Happy Hanukah. Bank on, brother!

dg-in-centralpa
12-25-2005, 06:21 PM
That's interesting because in Mosconi's autobiography, he mentions that Gleason could run 40-50 balls. Wonder if Willie made that up?

DG

FastJoey
12-26-2005, 01:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dg-in-centralpa:</font><hr> That's interesting because in Mosconi's autobiography, he mentions that Gleason could run 40-50 balls. Wonder if Willie made that up?

DG <hr /></blockquote> everything i ever heard about Gleason was that he was a nice guy to be around and that he played quite well.

Fran Crimi
12-26-2005, 09:16 AM
Gleason was an egomaniac who believed he was a lot better than he was. Everyone around him was nice to him because he was powerful in the entertainment industry. The guys from Brooklyn had nothing to lose by telling it like it really was.

Fran

Deeman3
12-26-2005, 12:42 PM
I had always heard he was a real good player but only from secondary sources. There was a story about them setting him up toplay Mosconi and, of course, Mosconi hustling him. I have always been suspicious of that as most players knew Willie on sight.

Deeman

Rich R.
12-26-2005, 07:16 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr>The guys from Brooklyn had nothing to lose by telling it like it really was.<hr /></blockquote>
Fran, although the guys from Brooklyn had nothing to lose, is it possible that there were a few sour grapes involved, since Gleason made it big and they didn't?

I'm just thowing out another thought, because of the conflicting reports. Chances are, none of us will ever no for sure.

Fran Crimi
12-26-2005, 10:15 PM
Duddy was a good friend of mine. He didn't have a bad bone in his body. He was telling the truth.

Fran

12-27-2005, 09:14 AM
He didn't make it up. The late Joe Bachelor, who was the night desk-man at McGirr's, where Gleason spent quite a bit of time before making it big in show biz, told me the exact same thing: at his very best, Gleason could run 45 or 50 balls. GF

Scott Lee
12-29-2005, 10:08 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 071838:</font><hr> He didn't make it up. The late Joe Bachelor, who was the night desk-man at McGirr's, where Gleason spent quite a bit of time before making it big in show biz, told me the exact same thing: at his very best, Gleason could run 45 or 50 balls. GF <hr /></blockquote>

George...Today that's a respectable run for an amateur player (even only once in awhile), but back in those days, Gleason would have been given the "bum's rush" by the players, as there were TONS of players who played and gambled on '100 or no count', especially in NYC. I heard of a guy in Brooklyn, who gambled on '200 or no count' (pretty darn sporty, if ya ask me...lol)! Fran, did you ever hear of that person?

Scott

Fran Crimi
12-29-2005, 03:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote 071838:</font><hr> He didn't make it up. The late Joe Bachelor, who was the night desk-man at McGirr's, where Gleason spent quite a bit of time before making it big in show biz, told me the exact same thing: at his very best, Gleason could run 45 or 50 balls. GF <hr /></blockquote>

George...Today that's a respectable run for an amateur player (even only once in awhile), but back in those days, Gleason would have been given the "bum's rush" by the players, as there were TONS of players who played and gambled on '100 or no count', especially in NYC. I heard of a guy in Brooklyn, who gambled on '200 or no count' (pretty darn sporty, if ya ask me...lol)! Fran, did you ever hear of that person?

Scott <hr /></blockquote>

I never heard of the 200-no-count player but I wouldn't be surprised to hear of that. I heard of plenty of 100-no-count players. Small-frys were playing 100pt 50-no-count games on a regular basis.

In case anyone doesn't know what a no-count game is, it means that you only score when you run the count. If it's a 50-no-count game, for example, if you run 49 balls your score is zero. You have to run 50 for it to count.

You're right, Scott, back up until the late '70's most players in NY never even heard of 9 ball. It was all straight pool. Once in awhile a 9 ball road player would come to town, like Little David, and they'd play one shot shootout, but that was a unique situation.

Fran

Fran Crimi
12-29-2005, 03:27 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 071838:</font><hr> He didn't make it up. The late Joe Bachelor, who was the night desk-man at McGirr's, where Gleason spent quite a bit of time before making it big in show biz, told me the exact same thing: at his very best, Gleason could run 45 or 50 balls. GF <hr /></blockquote>

Right, George, and as I'm sure you know, someone who could run 45 or 50 balls at his very best isn't getting through an entire rack most of the time up at the table.

I think people who don't play much straight pool may tend to be under the misconception that if you've ran 45-50 balls that it means you're a 50-ball runner. If you're a consistent 50-ball runner, your very best is going to be substantially higher.

Fran

dewey52
12-31-2005, 09:31 AM
Why are almost all of the posts on this thread leaning towards the negative? Do you want to be talked about in this manner after your demise? I sense something morbid about picking on dead people----------, how about the rest of the thread being positive? Please let me start, I think Mr Gleasons contribution to humanity overshadows any quirks in his private life. He brought joy &amp; laughter to millions of people for many, many years. So what if he could not run 100 balls! He was a STAR in the best pool movie of all time. His positive influence in pool will be with us for a long, long time. In the grand scheme of things, in the game of life, we all struggle just to carry this mans case. RIP Mr Gleason.

Fran Crimi
12-31-2005, 10:42 AM
I've been sitting on my hands all these years, watching people praise Gleason's playing ability and keeping my mouth shut, even though I knew otherwise to be true.

Gleason was an actor. He played a role. He had a little pool background. That was it. He went on and on with his bragging, trying to protray himself as a great player. He wasn't even a shortstop. He did the same thing with golf. He bragged and bragged that he was a great golfer. Bob Hope got sick of his bragging and demolished him on the golf course then took him to his home and demolished him on his pool table. Gleason was furious and didn't speak to Hope after that for a long time.

He was a prima donna who did a good job in a movie role.

People may say that Minnesotta Fats (Walderone) did the same thing but I beg to differ. Fats was a sharp cookie. He knew the score. He didn't beat the Shah of Iran out of his Harem...that was a ridiculous statement to make. But it was funny. He was mocking the elitist players of the day who all thought their s...t didn't stink.

Fats was a humanitarian and and a philanthropist who gave most of his money to sheltering homeless pets. I remember one time when pro player Mary Guarino was sitting in the stands crying after playing a disasterous match in a 14.1 Championship. Fats came over to her and asked her what was wrong. She said she felt humiliated in front of all her peers. He laughed. He took her by the hand and waltzed her around the room, around all the tables with the players, and said..." They're all just a bunch o' bums in monkey suits. You're worried about what THEY think? You got more class than the whole bunch of 'em put together." And he was right.

What did Gleason ever do for the game besides get paid for the opportunity to play one of the greatest movie roles of his life? Walter Tevis was the real genius behind The Hustler.

Fran

Drop1
12-31-2005, 07:52 PM
I asked a simple question. It had nothing to do with anything other than his celebrated ability to play pool. Please do not attack the people that answer my posts,as negative,for telling what they know. I know of nothing Gleason did for humanity,that has not been done by other talented dead people. I would try to be sweeter,but I have diabetes /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gifHappy New Year.

FastJoey
01-01-2006, 02:00 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dewey52:</font><hr> Why are almost all of the posts on this thread leaning towards the negative? Do you want to be talked about in this manner after your demise? I sense something morbid about picking on dead people----------, how about the rest of the thread being positive? Please let me start, I think Mr Gleasons contribution to humanity overshadows any quirks in his private life. He brought joy &amp; laughter to millions of people for many, many years. So what if he could not run 100 balls! He was a STAR in the best pool movie of all time. His positive influence in pool will be with us for a long, long time. In the grand scheme of things, in the game of life, we all struggle just to carry this mans case. RIP Mr Gleason. <hr /></blockquote> i agree Dewey...great post

FastJoey
01-01-2006, 02:03 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> Gleason was an egomaniac who believed he was a lot better than he was. Everyone around him was nice to him because he was powerful in the entertainment industry. The guys from Brooklyn had nothing to lose by telling it like it really was.

Fran <hr /></blockquote> ALOT of people that post here think they are better than they are......that doesn't mean they are bad people...

freddythebeard
01-01-2006, 05:29 AM
Fran,
You are blowing in the wind. All you have to prove your point is evidence. Evidence, when presented to an idiot has as much chance as succeeding as it did in the OJ Simpson trial. Your comparison between Fatty and Gleason was wonderful. Fatty had a heart of gold, and turned down no brokes for the bite. I know this to be true because I still owe him myself. I thought Gleason's show "The Honeymooners," might have been the funniest show ever put on TV, but I resented him because he was always throwing up his pool ability and his image as a regular guy from the neighborhood pool hall. I never seen or heard of him ever coming into any of the pool halls in Miami the whole time I was down there. Unlike real pool room habitues like Peter Falk, James Caan, Milton Berle, Jerry Orbach, etc.

the Beard
Bank on, sister! Old school pool.

Fran Crimi
01-01-2006, 09:02 AM
Thanks Freddy,

That means a lot, coming from you. I owe Fatty, too. It wasn't about money but he did me an act of kindness that I'll never forget.

Fran

Drop1
01-01-2006, 06:02 PM
Come on get real! All of a sudden we can't talk about all the great,and near great pool players,because some are dead. If dewey52 finds talking about the dead, morbid,lets forget about what has gone before us,and only focus on ourselves. Suggested reading "A Cool Million" by Nataniel West,and "Candide" by Voltare. Read a little about Omaha Fats,on the Az board. Check my other post "stroke Stroke,and read the great responses to my question.

dewey52
01-01-2006, 11:14 PM
Drop1----I suggest you reread my post. Where in it did I say talking about the dead? I said PICKING ON THE DEAD! There is quite a difference. Who said he was a "near great" pool player. You lost me on the rest of your post.
Dewey

FastJoey
01-01-2006, 11:32 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote freddythebeard:</font><hr> Fran,
You are blowing in the wind. All you have to prove your point is evidence. Evidence, when presented to an idiot has as much chance as succeeding as it did in the OJ Simpson trial. Your comparison between Fatty and Gleason was wonderful. Fatty had a heart of gold, and turned down no brokes for the bite. I know this to be true because I still owe him myself. I thought Gleason's show "The Honeymooners," might have been the funniest show ever put on TV, but I resented him because he was always throwing up his pool ability and his image as a regular guy from the neighborhood pool hall. I never seen or heard of him ever coming into any of the pool halls in Miami the whole time I was down there. Unlike real pool room habitues like Peter Falk, James Caan, Milton Berle, Jerry Orbach, etc.

the Beard
Bank on, sister! Old school pool.

<hr /></blockquote> So you OWE Fatty !!!! And you resent Gleason for saying he was good at pool !!!!! You are quit a shallow person no doubt !!!!!!

dewey52
01-02-2006, 12:01 AM
Now Iím curious, Fran Crimi, do you have first hand knowledge of what you post or is it hearsay? Would be interesting to get information from someone that traveled in Jackie Gleasons social circles. Please donít tell me these stories are ďfactsĒ heard from a friend of a friend of a friend. Someone posted that you had the evidence. In what form is the evidence? Are these your own experiences? I surely hope these remarks are not poolroom gossip. You know what that is worth.
Remember that he was an amateur pool player, with a huge ego, bragging &amp; probably acting like a jerk. We have all seen this &amp; it does happen even with the pro players. Why the condemnation? He was an amateur pool player, no more----no less. If you are gonna bash people for having a big mouth, the list is endless. Whoís next? Happy New Year, Dewey

Fran Crimi
01-02-2006, 08:11 AM
Dewey, I'm the first one to stand up against gossip. I've been the victim of nasty gossip myself. It stinks.

I wouldn't post this if I thought it were gossip. It's a first-hand account of a very close friend of mine who knew Gleason. I knew my friend for 20 years, who was a kind person and was not a liar or gossip.

Yes, to you it's 'heresay' but to me it's testimony because it was told directly to me by a person describing his own experiences.

By all means, feel free to not believe it.

Duddy worked at the Hotel Pierre in NYC for some 30 years. His job was to cater to the guests. He knew a lot of stars, including Bob Hope. Duddy told me that when he told Hope he grew up with Gleason, Hope told him the story I posted. That's the only part of the story that's not direct testimony. But if it came from Duddy, it's good enough for me.

Fran

HALHOULE
01-02-2006, 10:11 AM
THE MAN'S NAME WAS JOE BACHEL

freddythebeard
01-02-2006, 10:17 AM
Ok, you sprung me. I am going to give you the attention you probably dont deserve. I am mainly responding to give support to Fran. Fran is a real card-carrying member of our society. Someone who has paid her dues. When she tells you something, you should lap it up and commit it to memory. Instead you choose to disrespect her, which probably indicates you have no respect for our game or yourself. You just want to get some attention in print. Now as far as being shallow for still owing Fatty $20 from 1965, my friend I have done much, much,worse things in my hustling career. You should be able to pin all kinds of labels on me, because I probably did it all, pal. However, I did lead a very exciting life, and many in the world know who I am. How about you? People like Fran and myself made an impact in the real world, and when we deign to participate in these forums it's with good intentions. We try to help new players along. We are not looking to find fault and fire on people, and hide behind a screen name. I have seen enough of Fran's posts to determine that they are very positive and helpful. Be thankful that she participates and hope that you dont drive her away.

the Beard
Bank on, brother. Old school pool.

Drop1
01-02-2006, 12:26 PM
I don't know what problem these people have,but Fran has been a great source for me as far as improving my pool game. I think Fast Eddy,and the other moron should get a life. I think a life together would be perfect. What a couple of know nothing hens. Who do they know,where have they been,who did they play:couple of nobodys.

dewey52
01-02-2006, 12:35 PM
Fran, thanks for the civil post. You have exhibited an ability to communicate well without needing any bolstering from others on this board. I wish they would chill out! IMHO---What you heard was still hearsay, not testimony. Hope told Duddy the story that in turn told you. Thatís in the least third party information.
I donít doubt itís authenticity but the loss of credibility is obvious. Reminds me of the parlor game of several people sitting in a circle repeating a story to the person to their right. By the time the story comes back around to the person who started the story it is unrecognizable. Now, given that the story was true, what was to be gained by sharing it with the world? I understand if some people harbor a decades old dislike for the man &amp; wish his memory &amp; family ill will, why they would perpetuate these stories.
Could this be a case of envy from those less successful in life? Did the boys who played pool with him actually expect him to share his good fortune? I hope they didnít think they had a right to his wealth just because he ďmade itĒ &amp; they didnít. Envy is a green-eyed monster, an evil green-eyed monster that can fuel viscous gossip. I guess what I donít understand is why the boys tolerated his spoiled behavior? I would think some of them would have enough spine to speak up, taking him to task. But, itís easier picking on a dead person. One must ask themselves how humane it is to speak ill of the dead, fact or fiction, without absolute reason. How about we turn the direction of the thread back to his pool game &amp; leave the personal character attacks behind? Regards, Dewey

ted harris
01-02-2006, 01:17 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> I've been sitting on my hands all these years, watching people praise Gleason's playing ability and keeping my mouth shut, even though I knew otherwise to be true.<hr /></blockquote>
I for one am glad to know the real story. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr>I remember one time when pro player Mary Guarino was sitting in the stands crying after playing a disasterous match in a 14.1 Championship. Fats came over to her and asked her what was wrong. She said she felt humiliated in front of all her peers. He laughed. He took her by the hand and waltzed her around the room, around all the tables with the players, and said..." They're all just a bunch o' bums in monkey suits. You're worried about what THEY think? You got more class than the whole bunch of 'em put together." And he was right..<hr /></blockquote>
I just saw Mary for the first time in about 8 years at Mizerak's Senior tour event in Palm Beach about a month ago. I have always liked Mary alot...she has a lot of heart! Mary was one of the players selected for the IPT and was very excited about it. I have seen her mow down the boys on many occasions, and she will do it again. She has been through a lot in the last 10 years and I am happy that things are working out for her...she deserves it! /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Mary is one of the true heroes of our sport and of life...

Fran Crimi
01-02-2006, 02:36 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dewey52:</font><hr> Fran, thanks for the civil post. You have exhibited an ability to communicate well without needing any bolstering from others on this board. I wish they would chill out! <font color="blue"> I'm grateful to people like Freddy who has the guts to stand up for me. Usually it's just people enjoying a feeding frenzy. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif</font color> IMHO---What you heard was still hearsay, not testimony. Hope told Duddy the story that in turn told you. Thatís in the least third party information. <font color="blue"> Only the story about Hope is hearsay to me. Not the story about Duddy's direct experience with Gleason. It's testimony to me. It's hearsay to you because I'm telling you the story second-hand. I've spent enough time in courtrooms to know the difference. </font color>
I donít doubt itís authenticity but the loss of credibility is obvious. Reminds me of the parlor game of several people sitting in a circle repeating a story to the person to their right. <font color="blue"> You're comparing my judgement of a man's character (my friend) to parlor games? You don't know me very well at all. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif </font color> By the time the story comes back around to the person who started the story it is unrecognizable. Now, given that the story was true, what was to be gained by sharing it with the world? <font color="blue"> I think the story is very significant because all the rumors about Gleason's great playing were started by the man himself. </font color> I understand if some people harbor a decades old dislike for the man &amp; wish his memory &amp; family ill will, why they would perpetuate these stories. <font color="blue"> This isn't about feeling ill will. This is about setting the record straight. </font color>
Could this be a case of envy from those less successful in life? Did the boys who played pool with him actually expect him to share his good fortune? I hope they didnít think they had a right to his wealth just because he ďmade itĒ &amp; they didnít. <font color="blue"> Oh, Gleason had a right to his wealth, alright, but it would have been nice if he just picked up his portion of the tab. They had to pay for him. </font color> Envy is a green-eyed monster, an evil green-eyed monster that can fuel viscous gossip. I guess what I donít understand is why the boys tolerated his spoiled behavior? I would think some of them would have enough spine to speak up, taking him to task. <font color="blue"> Oh they took him to task in their own ways by gradually not being around when Gleason came to town. They didn't have lot of money. He was an expensive date. </font color> But, itís easier picking on a dead person. One must ask themselves how humane it is to speak ill of the dead, fact or fiction, without absolute reason. How about we turn the direction of the thread back to his pool game &amp; leave the personal character attacks behind? Regards, Dewey
<hr /></blockquote>

FastJoey
01-02-2006, 07:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote freddythebeard:</font><hr> Ok, you sprung me. I am going to give you the attention you probably dont deserve. I am mainly responding to give support to Fran. Fran is a real card-carrying member of our society. Someone who has paid her dues. When she tells you something, you should lap it up and commit it to memory. Instead you choose to disrespect her, which probably indicates you have no respect for our game or yourself. You just want to get some attention in print. Now as far as being shallow for still owing Fatty $20 from 1965, my friend I have done much, much,worse things in my hustling career. You should be able to pin all kinds of labels on me, because I probably did it all, pal. However, I did lead a very exciting life, and many in the world know who I am. How about you? People like Fran and myself made an impact in the real world, and when we deign to participate in these forums it's with good intentions. We try to help new players along. We are not looking to find fault and fire on people, and hide behind a screen name. I have seen enough of Fran's posts to determine that they are very positive and helpful. Be thankful that she participates and hope that you dont drive her away.

the Beard
Bank on, brother. Old school pool.
<hr /></blockquote> Attention in print ! LOL in your own words you OWE Fatty.....in your own words you have done much much worse things in your hustling days.exciting life ! LOL..many people will now know you as a Shallow person !!!!!! LOL

Drop1
01-02-2006, 07:37 PM
How far up your A$$, will your head go?

FastJoey
01-02-2006, 07:48 PM
i don't know why You would reference it to me ..obviously you have not read my posts and understood them..

Deeman3
01-02-2006, 08:28 PM
Fran/Freddy,

This clown obviously has some issues. Sounds like he is Mr. Gleason's apologist or something. I didn't know Mr. Gleason but did know Fats. He was always kind below that NY/NJ exterior. When he lived in Nashville, he was the single best entertainment the south had ever had but was always in character with me, even though I knew him quite well. I enjoyed Jackie Gleason's shows but thought Fats was a great entertainer himself. I also think, despite his not being the greatest of pool players, he certainly carried off the prize for smarts as who could have made of himself what he did? A few players used to get mad at him and Danny D. used to fume at him but who really did he ever hurt?

It's nice to hear good things about Fats.

Deeman

FastJoey
01-02-2006, 08:35 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> Fran/Freddy,

This clown obviously has some issues. Sounds like he is Mr. Gleason's apologist or something. I didn't know Mr. Gleason but did know Fats. He was always kind below that NY/NJ exterior. When he lived in Nashville, he was the single best entertainment the south had ever had but was always in character with me, even though I knew him quite well. I enjoyed Jackie Gleason's shows but thought Fats was a great entertainer himself. I also think, despite his not being the greatest of pool players, he certainly carried off the prize for smarts as who could have made of himself what he did? A few players used to get mad at him and Danny D. used to fume at him but who really did he ever hurt?

It's nice to hear good things about Fats.

Deeman <hr /></blockquote> I agree nice post Deeman

01-02-2006, 09:39 PM
Couldn't agree more, Fran; a personal best of 50 or so isn't even a blip on the east-coast radar screen, and of course it's a red flag that the player is taking the balls off the table incorrectly most of the time. My point was that it's still WAY better than most of the celebs who claim to play and love the game (Milton Berle couldn't play at all; Jerry Ohrbach's long run was only a bit better than Gleason's). And it's way better than the average jamoke. How we got from there to the merits of Wanderone, and yet another assault on you, is way beyond me. But happy New Year anyway. GF

FastJoey
01-02-2006, 09:57 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 071838:</font><hr> Couldn't agree more, Fran; a personal best of 50 or so isn't even a blip on the east-coast radar screen, and of course it's a red flag that the player is taking the balls off the table incorrectly most of the time. My point was that it's still WAY better than most of the celebs who claim to play and love the game (Milton Berle couldn't play at all; Jerry Ohrbach's long run was only a bit better than Gleason's). And it's way better than the average jamoke. How we got from there to the merits of Wanderone, and yet another assault on you, is way beyond me. But happy New Year anyway. GF <hr /></blockquote> Where on earth is this supposed assault on Fran ? there is no assault..people just posted their opinions about Fats and Gleason...some of you have to read the posts better before commenting....

cueball1950
01-02-2006, 09:58 PM
Now there is my Teddy bear. How is life in florida? How is the wife doing? Glad to see you posting again. Please keep in touch..................................mike

dewey52
01-03-2006, 11:29 AM
Fran, is sure doesnít take long for a topic on this site to degenerate into bickering. As an infrequent poster &amp; occasional viewer of this forum I am sad to see that. We should all be respective of others opinions &amp; treat people as we would like to be treated. As an obvious ďoutsiderĒ looking in I detect an overall tone of hardness. I suppose this could be an inherent symptom of this board or maybe just an ďEast CoastĒ way of looking at life. In a previous post you stated that I didnít know you very well &amp; that is correct. I donít know you &amp; my only impression of you is what is on this forum. I see that hundreds have viewed this topic, what impression of us do they now have? Remember, what goes around comes around. Do you actually want people ďsetting the record straightĒ on your life after your passing? Isnít it comforting to know the vast majority of people would never speak ill of you, itís not in their nature?
Please, can we pull this discussion back to the original posters intent? Letís discuss his game. Should he be considered a lightweight player because he couldnít run 50 in straight pool? Try to leave the personalities out of it,please--------------- are all amateur players who fail to meet this concocted standard, poor players? If this thread continues to slide towards being mean spirited, I will leave.
Regards,Dewey

Tom_In_Cincy
01-03-2006, 02:20 PM
From a lot of 'hearsay' 3rd party repeats and stories published on the web (for what that is worth) Jackie Gleason did gamble.

For FastJoey:

Fram Crimi uses her real name as a 'username' on this forum(and always has), is a master certified instructor, played more matches against Hall of Famers than most people realize, ran the Women's Pro Association and was a board member for a long time, plays pool in one of the most famous places on earth for 14.1 and has always been respected as a reliable resource/authority for anything pool related.

Fran Crimi's reputation is a lot closer to being 'beyond reproach' than somebody hiding behind a fake username making an A$$ out of themselves by thinking their posts mean something.

Tom&lt;---will always take Fran's word on her pool knowledge
and thinks FastJoey needs to apologize to Fran and this forum.

Deeman3
01-03-2006, 03:18 PM
Tom,

I knew I liked you for some odd reason besides the Memphis background...

Is it me, or does anyone who gets on here with Fast as a prefix, seem to nose dive pretty quickly? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Deeman
slow, not fast....

Donovan
01-03-2006, 03:57 PM
I don't post here often, but do read it occasionally. I do not like to get involved in this kind of stuff, but some of you are are just plain instigating or sucking up to Fran. In either case, she can handle herself. I hate when people twist things into something it isn't. I read the entire thread and I don't see where anyone is blasting her personally. Sure people will question what she says. She knows it will happen and yet she wants to tell it like she sees it. Not everyone in the world knows Fran. She even knows that.

This is a silly thing. Anytime a person sticks up for who they believe in, it is gonna hurt and it does get personal when someone says things bad about them. That is normal human behavior. I think the argument is a mood point. A good player is subjective and character can never be determined unless you know the person. Some people believe in what they are trying to convey, so that is their opinion. Debating it is GREAT, attacking personally is just not the answer.

FastJoey
01-03-2006, 05:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> From a lot of 'hearsay' 3rd party repeats and stories published on the web (for what that is worth) Jackie Gleason did gamble.

For FastJoey:

Fram Crimi uses her real name as a 'username' on this forum(and always has), is a master certified instructor, played more matches against Hall of Famers than most people realize, ran the Women's Pro Association and was a board member for a long time, plays pool in one of the most famous places on earth for 14.1 and has always been respected as a reliable resource/authority for anything pool related.

Fran Crimi's reputation is a lot closer to being 'beyond reproach' than somebody hiding behind a fake username making an A$$ out of themselves by thinking their posts mean something.

Tom&lt;---will always take Fran's word on her pool knowledge
and thinks FastJoey needs to apologize to Fran and this forum. <hr /></blockquote> Tom : apologize to Fran and the forum for what ??? no where did i ever say or write Anything about Fran ! i commented basically that i like Fats and Jackie Gleason ..when i did that some people got on me for that..How on earth did i attack Fran's reputaion ? or her pool playing ability ? READ over all the posts very carefully........some of you have not READ my posts or where are you getting your ideas from ??? READ THE POSTS&gt;&gt;i like Gleason and Fats...other people don't that's fine with me....READ THE POSTS WILL YOU !!!!

FastJoey
01-03-2006, 05:47 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> From a lot of 'hearsay' 3rd party repeats and stories published on the web (for what that is worth) Jackie Gleason did gamble.

For FastJoey:

Fram Crimi uses her real name as a 'username' on this forum(and always has), is a master certified instructor, played more matches against Hall of Famers than most people realize, ran the Women's Pro Association and was a board member for a long time, plays pool in one of the most famous places on earth for 14.1 and has always been respected as a reliable resource/authority for anything pool related.

Fran Crimi's reputation is a lot closer to being 'beyond reproach' than somebody hiding behind a fake username making an A$$ out of themselves by thinking their posts mean something.

Tom&lt;---will always take Fran's word on her pool knowledge
and thinks FastJoey needs to apologize to Fran and this forum. <hr /></blockquote> Tom:Please READ my posts carefully ..i am not Fast Larry or a wannabe..How am i making an ass out of myself ? Because i stated i liked Gleason and Fats ! a few years ago after Gleason died there was a documentary made about his life ..they interviewed all of the shows stars and friend of his ..they all stated what a great guy he was...this and other things i heard about him lead me to post kindly of him......this in NO way is an assault or attack or anything else against Fran..READ MY POSTS&gt;&gt;&gt;if Fran or anyone else has a story to contradict that then fine.. but WHY do u and others think this is an attack on Fran ?????????? READ ALL MY POSTS CAREFULLY then comment ..that's all i ask ..Thanks

CaptainHook
01-04-2006, 08:05 AM
Like it or not, both of them are a very important part of
Pool history. We are all fortunate to have lived during the same time period as them. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif