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dmgwalsh
01-01-2006, 06:32 AM
A safe similar to the one I've diagrammed occurs quite a lot, when the break ball is near the side of the rack or the rail and the shooter does not get a good angle to break.

What are good counters to this safe?

1 b: 104, 125
2 b: 104, 112
3 b: 82, 112
4 b: 55, 55
5 b: 19, 116
6 b: 82, 125
7 b: 71, 132
8 b: 90, 90
9 b: 93, 132
10 b: 79, 28
11 b: OUT
12 b: 32, 86
13 b: 83, 138
14 b: 72, 144
15 b: 93, 119
q b: 92, 145
wei (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable.html)

Steve Lipsky
01-01-2006, 09:46 AM
dmg,

If you are playing an opponent that can successfully put you where he just did, the only safe move is to unscrew lol.

Other than that, this is fairly simple. If you are playing a good player, you have to take three fouls here.

I am assuming that neither the 2 nor the 3 go in the side without fouling, btw.

Happy New Year!

- Steve

Cornerman
01-01-2006, 02:19 PM
You're using the old version (the original) of the Wei table.

This one is the current version:

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html

Fred

nAz
01-01-2006, 03:22 PM
tough spot! usually the rack comes apart like this when you play that type of safe:
START(
%AN7O3%BL7P8%CJ1O5%DL4M8%EM7P1%FK4O8%GK6N8%HM7N3%I L7O4%JK2L6
%KE0P6%LI5N1%MK6Q4%NJ2R0%OK4H7%PL5R3%WM7T1%XQ5Z0
)END

like S.lipsky said if your playing a really good player you should back scratch and take the three foul penalty... actually you never know after your first intentional foul your opponent may back scratch and through some mental slip leave you in position to play a legal safety, i have seen it happen a lot. also you can maybe intentionally faul to position A or maybe better B and see if your opponent will take the though shot, i do that with the people i play with most of which are at my level so i feel relatively safe with this shot selection.
START(
%BL7P8%CE7O1%DL3L4%EM7P1%FK4O8%GK6N8%HM7N6%IL7O4%J K4F1%KJ2P8
%LG1L4%MK4Q3%NJ2R0%OI5I6%PL5R0%QO3U0%Rr3Y0%WO8U1%X L4R0%Yr4Y4
%ZM2R3
)END

PlayMoreStraightWEI (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html)

Steve Lipsky
01-01-2006, 03:32 PM
Whoa, now I think I was looking at the wrong diagram. Naz, my image of the cueball position from his diagram was nowhere NEAR yours, lol. It was in the middle of the pack, surrounded on every side by object balls.

Hmmm....

- Steve

dmgwalsh
01-01-2006, 07:44 PM
I'm usually not playing guys that will routinely run 18 or more. Nonetheless I hate giving them a shot. If i can i'll nick the ball, send it uptable and back with right to hide behind the rack but it's a small area. I'll backscratch once or twice but I was wondering if any
particular way to bs. e.g., just nudge the ball or put it somewhere where the opponent might have a tougher time of it.

dmgwalsh
01-01-2006, 07:50 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nAz:</font><hr> tough spot! usually the rack comes apart like this when you play that type of safe:
START(
%AN7O3%BL7P8%CJ1O5%DL4M8%EM7P1%FK4O8%GK6N8%HM7N3%I L7O4%JK2L6
%KE0P6%LI5N1%MK6Q4%NJ2R0%OK4H7%PL5R3%WM7T1%XQ5Z0
)END

like S.lipsky said if your playing a really good player you should back scratch and take the three foul penalty... actually you never know after your first intentional foul your opponent may back scratch and through some mental slip leave you in position to play a legal safety, i have seen it happen a lot. also you can maybe intentionally faul to position A or maybe better B and see if your opponent will take the though shot, i do that with the people i play with most of which are at my level so i feel relatively safe with this shot selection.
START(
%BL7P8%CE7O1%DL3L4%EM7P1%FK4O8%GK6N8%HM7N6%IL7O4%J K4F1%KJ2P8
%LG1L4%MK4Q3%NJ2R0%OI5I6%PL5R0%QO3U0%Rr3Y0%WO8U1%X L4R0%Yr4Y4
%ZM2R3
)END

PlayMoreStraightWEI (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html) <hr /></blockquote>

Yeah, I sometimes try to do what you do, but a lot of times I get burned. It's a very common safe but apparently very effective, too.

nAz
01-01-2006, 11:20 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Steve Lipsky:</font><hr> Whoa, now I think I was looking at the wrong diagram. Naz, my image of the cueball position from his diagram was nowhere NEAR yours, lol. It was in the middle of the pack, surrounded on every side by object balls.

Hmmm....

- Steve <hr /></blockquote>

lol yeah yep that is a huge difference i can see now why wrote "the only safe move is to unscrew" /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

nAz
01-01-2006, 11:39 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dmgwalsh:</font><hr>
<hr /></blockquote>

Yeah, I sometimes try to do what you do, but a lot of times I get burned. It's a very common safe but apparently very effective, too.
<hr /></blockquote>

ya it is a very strong safe if played correctly you should always end winning the safety battle.
I play it a lot the key is to make sure the balls that pop out of the bottom of the rack bounce into the rail (of course) but not so hard that it goes back into the stack.
you can also play that safe into the 3rd row of the rack if your at this position:
START(
%AN7O5%BL7P8%CI3O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%I L7O4%JM0J3
%KE1P8%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NI7R5%OJ5J9%PR8T7%WN7R2%XQ8T2
)END

PlayMore14.1WEI (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html)