PDA

View Full Version : Wrist on Stroke - How Loose or Tight



walt8880
01-09-2006, 07:00 AM
I have recently started playing again after a 25 year layoff. I didn't realize how much I missed it.

In trying to redevelop a long lost stroke, I have discovered during practice that I was gripping the cue too tightly. Relaxing my grip has turned a lot of misses into makes.

Now another question arises that I would like some experienced player or instructor comment on. How stiff or loose should your wrist be on a normal stroke. Not talking about back hand tuck or roll, just a normal punch, stun, follow or draw shot.

I hope I am not being too simplistic after all these years.

Thanks for any and all comments. This seems to be a great board.

Deeman3
01-09-2006, 07:27 AM
I've always believed you can't hold the cue too loosely. Of course, if it's falling out of your hand, you probably are. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gifIf you hold it loosely, you will have little tension in you arm. I find, even if I feel I am too loose, my grip hand will tighten just enough a impact to hold the cue.


Deeman
Always loved visiting Shangai

Stretch
01-09-2006, 08:19 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote walt8880:</font><hr> I have recently started playing again after a 25 year layoff. I didn't realize how much I missed it.

In trying to redevelop a long lost stroke, I have discovered during practice that I was gripping the cue too tightly. Relaxing my grip has turned a lot of misses into makes.

Now another question arises that I would like some experienced player or instructor comment on. How stiff or loose should your wrist be on a normal stroke. Not talking about back hand tuck or roll, just a normal punch, stun, follow or draw shot.

I hope I am not being too simplistic after all these years.

Thanks for any and all comments. This seems to be a great board. <hr /></blockquote>

I like #### description of how to hold the cue. " like your cradling a tiny bird in your hand". St

TedKaufman
01-09-2006, 09:07 AM
When determining how firmly to grip the cue, there are two factors to consider. One, within reason, you will be more accurate with cue held deeply into the web of your thumb and fingers, but have less action. Two, within reason, you will get better action on the cueball with a light finger hold on the cue, but have less accuracy. Obviously, these factors seem at odds.

But you can have the best of both worlds. If you learn the hold the cue deeply in the web of your hand and learn to release the cue before impact, you will attain both control and action. By release it, I mean, loosen your hold before impact. I like to tell people to feel like they are tossing the cue; it's like a pouring motion with the wrist--not a snap. When you do it right, you will hear the cue resonate when it strikes the cueball. If you are holding it tightly, you will not hear that resonance.

Observe players like Sigel, Varner, Rempe and Allison Fisher, as well as just about all the top snooker players, and you will see what I mean. They all appear to hold the cue firmly, yet you can hear the cue resonate when they strike the cueball.

SpiderMan
01-09-2006, 09:14 AM
Walt,

You've gotten three responses, but all seem to be addressing the grip rather than the wrist. I'm in agreement with everyone on the grip thing, ie not too tight. Regarding the wrist, I'm not sure it matters that much, other than what is natural and comfortable.

I have one instructional video by Robert Byrne in which he notes "forget about the wrist".

SpiderMan

iacas
01-09-2006, 12:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr>You've gotten three responses, but all seem to be addressing the grip rather than the wrist. I'm in agreement with everyone on the grip thing, ie not too tight. Regarding the wrist, I'm not sure it matters that much, other than what is natural and comfortable. <hr /></blockquote>

That could be read as "grip pressure directly affects the wrist action." Grip tigher or grip looser, and the wrist action is affected. So, the grip stuff relates to the wrist.

"Forget about the wrists" seems like a smart approach to me.

Fran Crimi
01-09-2006, 02:06 PM
I'm guessing the question you're asking is whether you should be flicking your wrist or not, and if so, when.

Wrist-flicking was something that was taught to players by older generation players without much thought of why they did it themselves. Back in the older times, they had good reason to use the wrist-flick, but the need for that has diminished today.

Years ago, players generally stood taller at the table and had shorter bridge lengths. The wrist-flick helped them to obtain more power where they couldn't get it from their armswings. Also, they were up against clay balls.

Nowadays, players stand lower, use longer bridge lengths and can obtain more power just with their armswings. You generally won't see to much flicking going on these days, except on break shots and some extreme power shots.

Fran

Bassn7
01-09-2006, 04:01 PM
Fran,
Your comments are perfect. Those old tables and balls caused tons of players to add that extra "wrist flick".

Today, as you mentioned, breaking and power follow/draw shots are often assisted with the wrist. The exact opposite is true as well. Especially on the bar table. As the cue ball and object ball get closer, more wrist and less arm swing can be used. When the cue ball and object ball are within 1/2 to 6 inches of each other, a wrist only with very little armswing can work wonders. This method also stops double hitting the cue ball because the cue movement is decreased to only 1-3 inches. With the cue ball only one ball's width away from the object ball, you can train to draw back 5 feet with a arm locked wrist only stroke. It's damn near magic.

walt8880
01-09-2006, 07:57 PM
Everyone -

Thanks for your replies. I am amazed to get this much quality information so quickly.

Fran - I am especially interested in your comments about bridge length.

Being an "old school" player, my natural tendency is toward a shorter bridge in the 7-10 inch range. I see many of the younger players here using extremely long bridges, 15-18 inches or more and lining up with the cue tip practically touching the table . I am not sure how they even hit the ball. Maybe a lot of elbow drop.

Is this a new technique worth exploring or is it not worth it to try to teach an old dog new tricks, and I would be better off working on fundamentals in my natural style rather than trying to learn something new?

All opinions welcome

Fran Crimi
01-09-2006, 10:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote walt8880:</font><hr> Everyone -

Thanks for your replies. I am amazed to get this much quality information so quickly.

Fran - I am especially interested in your comments about bridge length.

Being an "old school" player, my natural tendency is toward a shorter bridge in the 7-10 inch range. I see many of the younger players here using extremely long bridges, 15-18 inches or more and lining up with the cue tip practically touching the table . I am not sure how they even hit the ball. Maybe a lot of elbow drop.

Is this a new technique worth exploring or is it not worth it to try to teach an old dog new tricks, and I would be better off working on fundamentals in my natural style rather than trying to learn something new?

All opinions welcome <hr /></blockquote>

I think you probably shouldn't be concerned about making any drastic changes unless you plan on playing serious 9 Ball. Judging by your posts, I'm guessing that you're a straight pool player. The old style works fine for 14.1. If it was good enough for Mosconi, Balsis, and the other greats, it's good enough for you, right?

The problem is in making the transition to 9 Ball. A lot of great 14.1 players couldn't make the transition because they had trouble with the big shots due to their compact strokes.

You can still play 9 Ball but you'd have to get closer position and you will be restricted on some shots. So, maybe the best thing to do would be to start with 14.1 to get your pool legs again and then if you want to jump into a little 9 Ball later, start to experiment with some of the newer methods later on.

Good luck!

Fran

Fran Crimi
01-09-2006, 11:30 PM
Yup. Excellent point about the close shots. The wrist-flick is the way to go when you need power but have to avoid the double-hit.

Fran

walt8880
01-10-2006, 01:46 AM
Fran -

I used to play 14.1 in the US but haven't found it here yet so am playing in a bar 8 ball league and a little 9 ball. There is a lot of snooker played in China, but where I grew up snooker didn't exist, so I have never played.

I quit playing for money many years ago and now only am playing for the challenge. I want to be as good as I can, but have fun doing it.

I have found a good place to practice here so am planning to practice 3-4 days a week for a couple hours each time and play in the league twice a week.

I think you are right. I will stick with trying to get more consistent and better with what I know and forget major stroke changes at this time.

One real treat I have stumbled onto. The room where I practice is owned by the father of Pan Xiao Ting, a young Chinese female pro 9 ball player. It is inspiring to watch her practice.

DickLeonard
01-10-2006, 07:23 AM
Walt seeing that your new to the Board I will give you a short course in Hitchhiking. I played with the 1951 US national champion for nearly two solid years but it wasn't till I mentally started copying his stroke while he was shooting that my game improved dramatically. While Pan is shooting watch her shooting and start mentally copying her stroke, soon you will develop her rythymn of shooting and stroking etc.
Before falling to sleep at night play pool in your mind you usually never miss in your mind. This method was used by Leonardo Da Vinci to teach his pupils years before I discovered it.

If she is playing in matches there watch the matches and put yourself at the table with her. This method allows you to feel the pressure of the game for free. Never be just a spectator but always assume one of the players Identity.

And never "Kill the bird".####

onepocketfanatic
01-10-2006, 08:35 PM
TAP TAP TAP

catscradle
01-11-2006, 06:13 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> Walt,

...
I have one instructional video by Robert Byrne in which he notes "forget about the wrist".

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

I think that is the best advice anyone can give. If you're holding the cue loose the wrist will be loose, if you're holding it tight the wrist will be tight, so just worry about the grip. I agree with others who have said loose is better.

walt8880
01-12-2006, 06:08 AM
Dick -

Good point about watching Pan Xiao Ting practice. I have a tendency to get involved watching the balls and I haven't paid much attention to the setup, stroke, etc. I'll try to refocus. She's in the US right now so it'll be a couple weeks.

I saw her exhibition 9 ball match here last fall with Ralf Soquet and have a video of it. Now that you mention it, I can watch that and see what I can learn from both of them. He cleaned her clock by the way, not unexpectedly.

As far as thinking about shots before falling asleep, I'll try that too although I must admit that it never worked with my golf game. Do you know if DaVinci played golf?

Thanks

Gayle in MD
01-12-2006, 08:42 AM
Hi, and welcome. Just wanted to let you know, there are two wrist experts on this board, Dick Leonard ####, and Fran Crimi. I had a serious wrist problem, Fran banished it for me in three minutes, and gave me a foolproof method to use if it reared its ungly head in the future! She is to pool, what Internists are to medicine, and so is Dick. I am planing to kidnap Dick very soon!

Gayle in Md. Good luck!

SPetty
01-12-2006, 02:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> I am planjning to kidnap Dick very soon!<hr /></blockquote>And bring him to PettyPoint with you for the Memorial Day weekend! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

walt8880
01-12-2006, 06:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> I had a serious wrist problem, Fran banished it for me in three minutes, and gave me a foolproof method to use if it reared its ungly head in the future!
Gayle in Md. Good luck! <hr /></blockquote>

Gayle or Fran - Can you give me a hint what Fran told you? I would love to go see her personally and find out, but it is a long way from Shanghai to New York.

Thanks -

Walter

nhp
01-12-2006, 06:44 PM
Your wrist should be stable. Don't tighten it or loosen it, just keep your grip relaxed and dont let your wrist [censored] back and forth and sideways. If you are unable to do this without moving your wrist, relax the back fingers in your grip on the backswing. Remember to keep the same grip pressure all throughout the stroke, keep the wrist stable, and release the cue. That should help.

nhp
01-13-2006, 05:48 AM
LOL where it says censored in my post above, the word is supposed to be c0ck, meaning to bend inwards or outwards, not the dirty word.

walt8880
01-13-2006, 06:43 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nhp:</font><hr> LOL where it says censored in my post above, the word is supposed to be c0ck, meaning to bend inwards or outwards, not the dirty word. <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks -

I couldn't figure out what word could have possibly been censored there, but now I understand.