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Kato
06-30-2002, 12:34 PM
Why is it that a medium stroke with a full follow through seems to or does move the cue ball around the table with relative ease? You can't hit the power draw or the big force follow but medium speed gets it done? One of the things I loved about the Predator was the ability to hit it soft to medium and still get where you needed to go. I've gotten away from that for a while. It's back now. Is there some physics explaination to this?

Kato~~~wondering and content to discover a long lost friend.

PQQLK9
06-30-2002, 12:43 PM
I would say because "follow" allows the cue ball to follow its natural tendency and the "medium" stroke allows it to "grab" the cloth easier...IMHO

Tom_In_Cincy
06-30-2002, 12:44 PM
"Follow" is more of a natural direction path for the cue ball than "Reverse".

"Follow" is much easier to control and shoot than "Reverse"

"Follow" is much less speed dependant than "Reverse"

If your Predator is helping you with your confidence and abilities to shoot these shots, by all means, keep it up.. trusting what you are deciding to do at the table, is one of the key elements to improving your shot making skills.

Scott Lee
06-30-2002, 12:56 PM
RJ...get Kato some help! He needs counseling! LOL

Kato...you SHOULD already KNOW this...the cue has NOTHING to do with the stroke...the STROKE has EVERYTHING to do with how easily you can move the CB around the table!
What you have done is IMPROVE your stroke. Now you should be able to do the same shot with ANY cue!

Scott Lee

Scott Lee
06-30-2002, 01:01 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> "Follow" is much easier to control and shoot than "Reverse" <hr></blockquote>

Tom...Depends on the situation! A stopshot is the easiest control shot to play. It requires backspin (aka reverse), or draw, and a smooth stroke. A soft stroke (what I call 2-rail, or lag speed) will suffice for a stopshot up to 4 feet away from the OB, on most tables.

Scott

Kato
06-30-2002, 01:15 PM
Gentlemen please. I know it's not the cue, it's the feeling of the stroke. My other cues didn't have that. It's got everything to do with stroke, absolutely. I could do this with any cue, providing something or other. Now forget about the Predator sentence. I didn't mean anything by it. I just forgot how it felt I've been pressing so hard. Back to the grind.

Kato~~~R.J. had conseling a long time ago. He didn't like it.

heater451
06-30-2002, 06:07 PM
I'm not sure if I am reading your question correctly, but I would hazard a guess that the force-follow shot might not travel as much, due to two basic factors: 1) If you are powering the shot, the balls own inertia is probably helping to kill the balls rebound--that is, instead of "power in, power out", the cushion absorbs a lot of the balls energy, and releases it with less; whereas the medium rebound retains more of its total energy. 2) If there is a lot of follow on the ball, the ball will rebound, but still want to spin towards the cushion--the same way it reacts when it hits a ball, and then follows afterwards.

Some of the same stuff probably affects a draw shot, but you also have to figure that you are trying to change the direction of the ball so much, that you lose a lot of the effective energy.

Again, I'm just postulating. Fred Agnir or Bob Jewett could probably give you a better explanation, if you really want to talk physics.

Kato
06-30-2002, 09:49 PM
Actually I was just thinking of a simple explaination which you have given. Physics ain't my bag.

Kato~~~the bagless one.

Voodoo Daddy
07-01-2002, 11:35 AM
Kato, some time ago we spent some at the table. I explained to you that someday you hit the ball with no real power and it would react just like you wanted it. In that same conversation, I explained that you would hit the ball and feel it all the way up your arm to the bottom of your neck. I know I said that because I always say that to new students...congrats your finding your true stroke. Its was only a matter of time but that time is different for everyone.


Voodoo

phil in sofla
07-01-2002, 12:02 PM
Think of how light you would hit a 'lag for break' shot, and how it travels 18 feet. That's with a center ball hit, a little skidding, and then, turning over to a natural roll. No power, and no overspin, just natural roll.

If it had overspin (top) coming off that foot rail, it would fight to stay down table, in the extreme case of a lot of overspin, possibly staying at the foot rail, or bouncing off it several times.

Maybe you unconsciously before were stroking a little extra top, which was fighting the return energy off the rail, and now, less top, so there is a more natural forward roll, letting it come off the rails without fighting that reversing roll.

Rod
07-01-2002, 06:26 PM
Kato, Heater and Phil give you a good explanation of why that happens in this particular situation. It does depend on how far the ball is from the rail and angle because that won't happen when the o/b is far enough away from a rail. Under normal conditions a smooth med stroke will react faster than a power stroke because the c/b stays on the table. A power stroke makes the c/b bounce, even if you don't see it happen. That bounce will create a delay in the c/b action whether it's draw or follow. That bounce can and in most cases will change the angle of the c/b path considerably compared to a smooth medium stroke. Sometimes we need that power but we also need to know how the c/b will react either way.

Mr Ingrate
07-01-2002, 07:49 PM
Kato,

Another interesting thing that is sometimes overlooked, well by me at least, is that a cueball hitting the rail with backspin (draw) will come off the rail faster and travel farther than with topspin.

The next time you have a cut shot and need to travel up the table and back down don't load up on that topspin and hit it really hard, try some backspin and hit it softer.