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View Full Version : Tip Surface - How Smooth or Scuffed



walt8880
01-27-2006, 08:41 AM
Have just installed new Moori Med tip and looking for feelings on how smooth or rough the surface should be for optimum chalk retention and shooting. I have shaped it to a dime radius but done nothing else yet except burnish the edges.

Also, how to achieve that optimum surface.

I am a little scared of using a tip pick for fear of delaminating and the choice of commercially available equipment is limited here.

Rich R.
01-27-2006, 09:40 AM
You are correct to not use the Tip Pik on the Moori. IIRC, they are not recommended for any layered tip.

As far as a rough or smooth tip, you will probably get opinions on both sides. Some never rough up the tip, after the initial shaping. Others rough and reshape their tips all of the time. I suspect, the correct thing to do, is somewhere between and it is more of a personal preference than anything else.

Billy_Bob
01-27-2006, 10:27 AM
The last picture on the following link shows my sandpaper shapers which I made out of PVC pipe. I use dime for playing cue, nickel for masse' cue, and quarter for breaking cue.
http://www.geocities.com/billybobnospam/pr.html

I use my sandpaper shapers with 220 grit sandpaper to lightly scuff the surface. I sand back and forth while slowly rotating the cue and will "sand around" once or twice. I hold the cue vertical with tip up and sandpaper shaper horozontal.

Basically I remove the blue and it becomes tan colored all over after sanding. I will lightly sand once a week or before an important tournament.

Then when applying chalk to a freshly sanded Moori tip, it has a smooth even coating of chalk which looks "pretty"!

A brand new tip will compress with use at first, so more aggressive sanding is needed to keep it a dime shape. After a few weeks, just lightly sanding keeps it a dime shape.

With a sandpaper shaper, you can hold the end up to your tip in front of the light and see if it has the proper shape or not. And you can cut your own sandpaper and use a more fine or coarse grit as you desire.

The following company manufactures nickel and dime shaped sandpaper shapers...
http://www.excel.net/~mniver

Do-it-yourself tip shapers...
Cut electrical PVC in half and about 8 inches long - Be safe, use a vise to hold the pipe when sawing and both hands on saw.

PVC SIZES...
Dime (1/2" PVC Pipe) [15.00 mm]
Nickel / Penny (3/4" PVC Pipe) [19.75 mm]
Quarter (1" PVC Pipe) [25mm]

Billy_Bob
01-27-2006, 10:30 AM
Also the above is *all* I do. I never pick it or tap it.

SpiderMan
01-27-2006, 10:36 AM
I like to cut strips from the "self-stick" sandpapers made for pad sanders, and install them in my PVC tools:

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/funkychateau/detail?.dir=9e1d&.dnm=a868.jpg&.src=ph

Shape by keeping the tool absolutely perpendicular to the shaft, drawing it across the tip while you rotate the shaft. This ensures that you wind up with a crown shape that exactly matches the tool.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/funkychateau/detail?.dir=9e1d&.dnm=db29.jpg&.src=ph

SpiderMan

Billy_Bob
01-27-2006, 11:08 AM
Great idea and nice pictures!

Note that I have been using regular sandpaper and holding it to the shaper with my thumb, but I think I'll get some of the self stick kind. Thanks!

Scott Lee
01-27-2006, 11:39 AM
Walt...I'm in the camp that rarely scuffs or sands my tips (probably why they last so long...2+ years and still in excellent shape). The comment about tip compression is not really true. There is little or no tip compression, especially with a layered tip like a Moori. The tip can be completely smooth and still hold a fine layer of chalk. It's technique and the proper delivery of the cue through the CB that prevents miscues...not a scuffed tip. jmo

Scott Lee

Billy_Bob
01-27-2006, 12:14 PM
It has been my experience that when I install a new Moori Q (hard) tip and give it a dime shape, the dome will compress or squish in a little bit with the first few weeks of use. So a bit of shaping is necessary to return it to a dime shape. Then after those first few weeks, it pretty much keeps its shape.

But I might point out that I have a lot of experience with this, since I regularly check my tip to be sure it has the proper dime shape, shape my tip if needed, and replace my tip every 6 months or so.

Also a very soft tip like an Elk Master will get a concave dent in it just one hard whack. From the link below...

"Elkmasters are basically soft tips. In original, just-out-of-the-box conditions, they tend to mushroom for a while before they stabilize. For this reason I always pre-compress an Elkmaster using either a squeeze in a vice (before installation) or by "bouncing" the shaft on a concrete floor about 100+ times (after installation) to prevent the mushrooming that occurs during break-in."

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.billiard/browse_frm/thread/ee799faa7e7899a8/ba60a7830f98c616?lnk=st&q=tip+floor+100+times&rnum =1#ba60a7830f98c616

Sid_Vicious
01-27-2006, 05:35 PM
"The tip can be completely smooth and still hold a fine layer of chalk. It's technique and the proper delivery of the cue through the CB that prevents miscues...not a scuffed tip. jmo"

Well said. Jmo2...sid

Deeman3
01-27-2006, 05:45 PM
Then this does not explain why my teflon w/Vasoline coated tips never took off.

walt8880
01-27-2006, 06:04 PM
Thanks for all the replies and advice.

Note that I am in China so many things are not readily available here. I did make myself a PVC shaper from a piece of 15mm pipe and got two types of sandpaper to cut and use for it. One sheet 280, and the other rougher, but no idea what grit it is.Used the rougher one first, then the 280.

Total cost for everything - $0.50 US.

Burnished the edge of the tip with a 5 rmb note, but had done nothing further to the shooting surface waiting on replies to my questions above.

I have thrown away the tip pic that was given to me and will will probably do no additional scuffing, etc to the tip until I can try it and see how it plays.

rackem
01-27-2006, 11:20 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> You are correct to not use the Tip Pik on the Moori. IIRC, they are not recommended for any layered tip.

I have never experienced any problem using a tip-pik on my moori s tip. You just need to be smarter than the tool and not get carried away. Be gentle and don't over do it. I have had the same tip for well over a year. Why in heavens name would you throw a perfectly good tool away? What about your break cue or a bar cue?

Stretch
01-28-2006, 06:47 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote rackem:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> You are correct to not use the Tip Pik on the Moori. IIRC, they are not recommended for any layered tip.

I have never experienced any problem using a tip-pik on my moori s tip. You just need to be smarter than the tool and not get carried away. Be gentle and don't over do it. I have had the same tip for well over a year. Why in heavens name would you throw a perfectly good tool away? What about your break cue or a bar cue? <hr /></blockquote>

I believe tip pics were invented by tip manufacturers to sell more tips. Miscues are the result of a bad stroke and tip placement, not the fault of a well chalked tip. If the surface of your tip is that shiney that it won't hold chalk then just roll 80 grit paper over it useing some sort of hard backing and that;s all you need.

Another common fault that kills tips is bad chalk. Some chalk is so dryed out and useless that it will fall off any surface and not grab the cue ball worth a darn. Making you think it's the tips fault when it is really a poor chalk problem. Always carry your own chalk. For what it costs it's well worth it. St.

Snapshot9
01-28-2006, 02:04 PM
Well, I use Hercules medium hard layered tips, and I only use
sandpaper (220 grit) on it for shaping without a sandpaper
holder. The sandpaper holders are curved and you WILL NOT
get a 45 degree angle going from the top to the side with a
holder. You, in fact, get a curved edge outward, which when
it contacts the cue bal (which is curved outward too) provides
less surface contact than a straight 45 degree angle on the endge of a tip. Result is slipping of english and miscues more often. I also use a TipPik Shadow on my tip with no problem, and my tips last 2-2 1/2 years normally. Several
tip tools, in fact, chew up a tip with constant usuage, which leads to inconsistent shooting and tip replacement more often.
My tips are 12.75 mm, and a nickel radius. I don't know why players think they need a dime radius, I can get just as much spin as any of them. /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Stretch
01-28-2006, 09:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Snapshot9:</font><hr> Well, I use Hercules medium hard layered tips, and I only use
sandpaper (220 grit) on it for shaping without a sandpaper
holder. The sandpaper holders are curved and you WILL NOT
get a 45 degree angle going from the top to the side with a
holder. You, in fact, get a curved edge outward, which when
it contacts the cue bal (which is curved outward too) provides
less surface contact than a straight 45 degree angle on the endge of a tip. Result is slipping of english and miscues more often. I also use a TipPik Shadow on my tip with no problem, and my tips last 2-2 1/2 years normally. Several
tip tools, in fact, chew up a tip with constant usuage, which leads to inconsistent shooting and tip replacement more often.
My tips are 12.75 mm, and a nickel radius. I don't know why players think they need a dime radius, I can get just as much spin as any of them. /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Yes, when it comes to the buisness end of your weapon everyone has thier own little likes and dislikes. I too get well over a year out of my Lapros but then they are a little softer than your Hercules. They play the best for me at about half life once they've been beat into submission. Then they really hit sweete. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif St.