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View Full Version : Name of "worshipers" of Dr. Dave?



Billy_Bob
01-27-2006, 11:53 AM
I shared my Dr. Dave "secrets" (30, 90 rules) with another player, and boy is this guy excited!

First of all, this guy, unlike many others, is a "good student". He is intellegent and open to advice. So he actually listens.

Anyway he caught on right away to Dr. Dave's rules and instantly saw how this could solve many his current problems and give him an advantage.

He is now, along with myself and others, a worshiper of Dr. Dave's teachings!

So what should we call players like ourselves?

You have "Moonies" who are followers of Sun Myung Moon.
Or Transcendental Meditationionists who are followers of Guru Maharishi Mahest Yogi.
Then Hare Krishna, etc.
/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Base names?...
David
Alciatore
PhD
Dr. Dave
Rule
Rules
Thirty-ninety
Degree

dr_dave
01-27-2006, 12:14 PM
Billy_Bob,

I really appreciate your supportive words and encouragement, but I think this is going a little too far.

For one, I am far from worship-able. I have far too many human flaws for that.

Furthermore, the 90 and 30 degree rules are far from being secret or new. The fundamental concepts behind them have been fairly well known and documented for many years (e.g., Coriolis was well aware of them in 1836). Now, I have made a big deal about them and illustrated and presented them a little differently than others (e.g., with my peace sign hand trick and numerous instructional articles), but I can't claim I invented (or discovered) the principles.

Thanks again your continued pagan (non worshipping) support and "word" spreading. I appreciate it.

Regards,
dave

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy_Bob:</font><hr> I shared my Dr. Dave "secrets" (30, 90 rules) with another player, and boy is this guy excited!

First of all, this guy, unlike many others, is a "good student". He is intellegent and open to advice. So he actually listens.

Anyway he caught on right away to Dr. Dave's rules and instantly saw how this could solve many his current problems and give him an advantage.

He is now, along with myself and others, a worshiper of Dr. Dave's teachings!

So what should we call players like ourselves?

You have "Moonies" who are followers of Sun Myung Moon.
Or Transcendental Meditationionists who are followers of Guru Maharishi Mahest Yogi.
Then Hare Krishna, etc.
/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Base names?...
David
Alciatore
PhD
Dr. Dave
Rule
Rules
Thirty-ninety
Degree
<hr /></blockquote>

Billy_Bob
01-27-2006, 12:23 PM
Sorry, did not mean to go "overboard"...
(Note the smiley faces...)

Anyway my friend thanks you for your good explanation of these rules. He went from scratching about 3 times a game to scratching only once in an evening. But again, he is also a good listener. With others I have tried to explain this to, it goes in one ear and out the other!

Deeman3
01-27-2006, 12:28 PM
The "V" Maxers

Snakedoctors

30degreesfromthehole

Dr. Dave's Nightcrawlers

Theplayersformerlyknownasfish

Dr. Davestoppedmyscratcing ointment in the 90 degree bottle

Daveswaves

dr_dave
01-27-2006, 12:43 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy_Bob:</font><hr> Sorry, did not mean to go "overboard"...
(Note the smiley faces...)<hr /></blockquote>
Despite the smiley face, some people might take your posting seriously (and maybe even think I put you up to it).

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy_Bob:</font><hr>Anyway my friend thanks you for your good explanation of these rules. He went from scratching about 3 times a game to scratching only once in an evening. But again, he is also a good listener. With others I have tried to explain this to, it goes in one ear and out the other!<hr /></blockquote>
It is nice of you to share your knowledge with your league-mates. Not everybody does this. You must be a nice, generous, and caring guy.

I'm glad you and your friend have found my stuff useful.

Regards,
Dave

Cornerman
01-27-2006, 01:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy_Bob:</font><hr>
He is now, along with myself and others, a worshiper of Dr. Dave's teachings!

So what should we call players like ourselves?
<hr /></blockquote>If you don't mind self-deprecation:

Double D Boobs

HTH,

Fred

SpiderMan
01-27-2006, 01:35 PM
Dave,

It doesn't matter whether you were the "first" to recognize or utilize a certain principle. The fact is you do recognize them, and understand them technically to a depth which is not matched by anyone else currently participating in this forum.

Still, your big contribution is in communication and sharing. You are a trained educator, obviously a good one, and have the ability to effectively articulate and explain using mass media. Unlike some of us who may possess similar knowledge, you have devoted countless hours to documentation and dissemination of same.

Finally, you don't have an ego hangup and aren't into self-promotion. You go out of your way to consider other viewpoints fairly, and shake off more than your share of criticism and abuse.

Several years ago this forum experienced another academic contributor who had specialized himself (and written commentary and a book) in dealing with the mental game. Unlike yourself, this person was quite thin-skinned and testy when facing opinions which did not mirror his own. He didn't last long and has not returned. I think you're in for the long haul.

SpiderMan

BigRigTom
01-27-2006, 03:45 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> Dave,

It doesn't matter whether you were the "first" to recognize or utilize a certain principle. The fact is you do recognize them, and understand them technically to a depth which is not matched by anyone else currently participating in this forum.

Still, your big contribution is in communication and sharing. You are a trained educator, obviously a good one, and have the ability to effectively articulate and explain using mass media. Unlike some of us who may possess similar knowledge, you have devoted countless hours to documentation and dissemination of same.

Finally, you don't have an ego hangup and aren't into self-promotion. You go out of your way to consider other viewpoints fairly, and shake off more than your share of criticism and abuse.

Several years ago this forum experienced another academic contributor who had specialized himself (and written commentary and a book) in dealing with the mental game. Unlike yourself, this person was quite thin-skinned and testy when facing opinions which did not mirror his own. He didn't last long and has not returned. I think you're in for the long haul.

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

Dr. Dave!
I have been very busy lately and have only been lurking here for a while now. When I saw this thread (just now), I was compelled to respond!

I think the Spiderman is on to something that while I did not 1st realize it I too recognize these HIGH quality traits in your book, your web site and your participation in this forum. I think the industry as a whole benefits from your involvement in it.

Every one here has heard my praise of your book and web site so let me extend that praise to you as a person and a fellow student of the game of pool. Keep up the good work.

wolfdancer
01-27-2006, 04:08 PM
Before we annoint the good Doctor,or award him a "Doctorate of Billiardology" we should first demand that he submit an original idea for his dissertation....even he has admitted that the 30' degree rule was from the good Gaspard. My team of researchers at the local pub, thinks he may have stolen the peace sign from a story about Abby Hoffman, or Jerry Rubin.

And while I'm sure the idea of a noon drive through the campus before the assembled student body, in one of the 29 Rolls Royce's donated by enthralled followers, must be somewhat appealing.....
Kidding aside, Dr. Dave's site has enough pool info there, to entice and reward even the most ardent pool fan. He's also shown the ability to take one on the chin...no glass jaw there. The early critism, unwarrented, didn't make him move on to greener pastures.
While giving Dr. Dave his just due...let's not forget the many contributions from Bob Jewett...with what I've picked up from both men, I think I'm working on my Doctorate.
And while he may be an acquired taste for some, Hal's aiming theories (I'm avoiding the systems controversy) have helped my own attempt at playing the game.
Got to give Fran some credit here also....and though he hasn't posted for years.....George Fels was another great asset, as was Fred Agnir
So thanks, Dr Dave, Bob, Hal, George, Fran, Fred.

I think Spiderman and Tom had great replies to the thread.

jtlabs
01-27-2006, 05:42 PM
Dave, who cares what people think? Don't be so insecure. Besides a fan base is good business, and good business is often started with a passion and selfless acts which you possess. I'm not saying to create a fan organization, but if someone wants to create one, hey don't stop them:) Even though everyone was pretty much joking.

BTW, I thank you as well for all the information you share, it's interesting and I rarely ever scratch as a result. I find I can imagine the angles instead of using my fingers although I do use it every now and then.

walt8880
01-27-2006, 06:26 PM
Dave -

I am a new member of this board who has rediscovered the pleasures of the game after a long layoff.

I am an ME also, though not a Dr. or Professor, so appreciate the underlying principles, but must admit, I have not studied them a lot, nor do I intend to.

After discovering your site, I have been practicing with the 30/90 rules and used them last week in my 8 ball league matches very effectively. Several Chinese players asked me what I was doing with my fingers and I explained that I was placing an ancient Mayan Indian curse on the cue ball to make it go where I wanted.

Thanks for all the info on your site. I am slowly trying to comprehend it.

cushioncrawler
01-27-2006, 06:45 PM
Billiards Davidians -- because Dr Dave's holy works have been a Revelation to me.
Saint David -- for the 90dg Miracle.
Saint Bob -- (Jewett) for spreading the Word regarding reduced friction between balls, ie for hi-speed, fine cuts.
Saint Jack -- (Koehler) for his Bible -- notably for using lovely legs &amp; short dresses in his photos.

Now, our target must be to get 144,000 members -- the FBI's target will be to stop us.

SpiderMan
01-30-2006, 09:11 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote walt8880:</font><hr> Several Chinese players asked me what I was doing with my fingers and I explained that I was placing an ancient Mayan Indian curse on the cue ball to make it go where I wanted.
<hr /></blockquote>

HaHaHa! Wonder why the Chinese players singled you out? Have to wait and see whether a new fad catches on, randomly waving two fingers at the cueball.

Someone must have spread a similar story to the Mexicans in Dallas. They have a group-participation gambling game they call "Black pool" (others call it "Mexican Bang-a-Ball"), where they influence the rolls by grouping near the pocket, placing their faces near the rail, and jabbering at the shooter. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Apparently there are several non-native cultures where sharking is an acceptable part of normal play.

SpiderMan

dr_dave
01-30-2006, 09:31 AM
Thanks to everyone! I really appreciate all of the flattery and supportive words (especially Spiderman's below ... Wow!). I am most definitely here for the "long haul."

Regards,
Dave
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> Dave,

It doesn't matter whether you were the "first" to recognize or utilize a certain principle. The fact is you do recognize them, and understand them technically to a depth which is not matched by anyone else currently participating in this forum.

Still, your big contribution is in communication and sharing. You are a trained educator, obviously a good one, and have the ability to effectively articulate and explain using mass media. Unlike some of us who may possess similar knowledge, you have devoted countless hours to documentation and dissemination of same.

Finally, you don't have an ego hangup and aren't into self-promotion. You go out of your way to consider other viewpoints fairly, and shake off more than your share of criticism and abuse.

Several years ago this forum experienced another academic contributor who had specialized himself (and written commentary and a book) in dealing with the mental game. Unlike yourself, this person was quite thin-skinned and testy when facing opinions which did not mirror his own. He didn't last long and has not returned. I think you're in for the long haul.

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

dr_dave
01-30-2006, 09:42 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jtlabs:</font><hr> Dave, who cares what people think? Don't be so insecure. Besides a fan base is good business, and good business is often started with a passion and selfless acts which you possess. I'm not saying to create a fan organization, but if someone wants to create one, hey don't stop them:) Even though everyone was pretty much joking.<hr /></blockquote>
Thank you for your comments.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jtlabs:</font><hr>BTW, I thank you as well for all the information you share, it's interesting and I rarely ever scratch as a result. I find I can imagine the angles instead of using my fingers although I do use it every now and then.<hr /></blockquote>
Scratch avoidance is just the beginning. Carom shots are the next step, where knowledge of the 30 degree rule especially can make a huge difference. For more info, see my March '04 and June '04 instructional articles (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/bd_articles/index.html).

Regards,
Dave

dareads
01-30-2006, 09:42 AM
Not to single myself out as a compelte idiot, but I have a clarification question. I understand the 30 and 90 Degree rule, but what I am unsure of is how to determine when to apply each rule. I am not sure how to tell if the cue ball will be rolling or sliding when it hits the object ball. Thanks

dr_dave
01-30-2006, 09:50 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dareads:</font><hr> Not to single myself out as a compelte idiot, but I have a clarification question. I understand the 30 and 90 Degree rule, but what I am unsure of is how to determine when to apply each rule. I am not sure how to tell if the cue ball will be rolling or sliding when it hits the object ball. Thanks<hr /></blockquote>
That's not a stupid question at all. In fact, it is probably the most common question I have received over the years. I think my July '04 instructional article (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/bd_articles/july04.pdf) does the best job of answering your question (with illustrations and references to video clips). There is also a good answer for the 30 degree rule at the "when it applies" link under "30 degree rule" in the threads summary area of my website (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/threads.html).

I hope that helps,
Dave

Billy_Bob
01-30-2006, 11:04 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dareads:</font><hr> Not to single myself out as a compelte idiot, but I have a clarification question. I understand the 30 and 90 Degree rule, but what I am unsure of is how to determine when to apply each rule. I am not sure how to tell if the cue ball will be rolling or sliding when it hits the object ball. Thanks <hr /></blockquote>

Practice with a striped ball instead of the cue ball. Then practice center hit, stun, draw, and follow shots.

You will be able to notice if the striped ball if rolling backwards (draw), sliding (stun), or rolling forwards (follow).

And shoot the striped ball all the way to the end of the table with draw. Notice that it begins with a backwards roll, then slides, then begins a forward roll.

So for the 90 degree to work, you need stun. If it is close, a center hit may do the job, a little further hitting one tip below center may create a sliding ball at the time it hits an object ball. Or a long distance, may need to hit with a lot of draw and by the time it gets to the object ball, it will be sliding (draw drag shot).

So set up the same exact cut shot, mark the table with chalk where the cue ball and object ball goes. Then hit shot with follow and notice where the cue ball goes. Then sane shot with stun and notice that CB goes to a DIFFERENT place!

This is great stuff to know to avoid scratches and to get the CB to go where you want after a hit.

Billy_Bob
01-30-2006, 12:10 PM
P.S. After you learn that the cue ball will go to a different location after a hit depending on if the cue ball is rolling or sliding, you can then "stop scratching"!

All you do is look at a cut shot you are about to make. Then hold up the "peace sign" as described in Dr. Dave's stuff. And this is where a rolling cue ball will go or 30 degrees from the line the CB is traveling.

And make an "L" with your hand and finger with the long part of the "L" pointing to where the pocket you are aiming at is and the short part of the "L" over the object ball. Then the cue ball will go the direction of the short part of the "L" or 90 degrees from the line to the pocket. (Also called 'Tangent".)

Then if the peace sign points to a pocket, use a stun shot.

If the "L" points to a pocket, use a follow shot or rolling ball.

If both the peace sign and "L" point to a pocket, better bank it, shoot another ball, or play a safety.

I understood this best by getting Dr. Daves DVD. Seeing these shots demonstrated in a video made everything "click" for me. Then the first step is learning and practicing this stuff.

Next is taking advantage of these things and being able shoot the shots as needed. And this can take years, but with myself, I just keep getting better and better. Currently I am using the 30 and 90 degree rules to leave the cue ball where I want after a shot in addition to avoiding scratches.

Also I'm teaching a friend of mine this stuff. He is having trouble "trusting" what he has learned. For example he had a ball near the side pocket and if shooting it into the corner pocket (a better choice), he could have used stun to keep the CB from scratching into the side. (A normal shot would have scratched.) So he shot the ball into the side instead of into the corner pocket. So it takes time to learn to trust what you "know" vs a gut instinct that the CB will scratch.

Anyway may want to set up an object ball near the side pocket and learn how you can avoid scratching by using one rule or the other. But mark the position of your balls so you can shoot the same exact shot over and over.

Perk
01-30-2006, 01:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> Theplayersformerlyknownasfish<hr /></blockquote>

LMAO! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Deeman3
01-30-2006, 02:43 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Perk:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> Theplayersformerlyknownasfish<hr /></blockquote>

LMAO! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Perk,

Do you ever run into John Binion? If so, tell him I said hello.


Deeman

Perk
01-30-2006, 08:15 PM
4 times a year or so. I will let him know next time. I imagine it will be within a month or two..pool season is starting to dwindle already..lol...

iacas
01-31-2006, 03:43 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> You are a trained educator, obviously a good one, and have the ability to effectively articulate and explain using mass media.<hr /></blockquote>

Just picking a nit: college professors are rarely trained to be educators. He's "trained" (in engineering) and he's an educator (as a professor, a book author, etc.) but I think you know what I mean.

That's not to say that he isn't a good teacher and educator, which I think he is. Just, as I said, picking a nit.

I bought, read, and recommend Dr. Dave's book to those I know who haven't yet read it. And I know someone who just bought the DVD, too.

jtlabs
01-31-2006, 07:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote jtlabs:</font><hr> Dave, who cares what people think? Don't be so insecure. Besides a fan base is good business, and good business is often started with a passion and selfless acts which you possess. I'm not saying to create a fan organization, but if someone wants to create one, hey don't stop them:) Even though everyone was pretty much joking.<hr /></blockquote>
Thank you for your comments.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jtlabs:</font><hr>BTW, I thank you as well for all the information you share, it's interesting and I rarely ever scratch as a result. I find I can imagine the angles instead of using my fingers although I do use it every now and then.<hr /></blockquote>
Scratch avoidance is just the beginning. Carom shots are the next step, where knowledge of the 30 degree rule especially can make a huge difference. For more info, see my March '04 and June '04 instructional articles (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/bd_articles/index.html).

Regards,
Dave <hr /></blockquote>

Indeed Dr. Dave. I have used caroms via the 30 degree rule before, and as a result of your research dave, I believe my learning curve has decreased a lot! Even though I still go through trial and error when it comes to determining where the cue ball will go via speed etc.. I get it a whole lot faster when I think in terms of angles and a rolling cue ball and a stun shot.

Thx again!

jtlabs
01-31-2006, 07:49 PM
Billy_Bob,

are their videos not on his site that is on the dvd or cd?

dr_dave
02-01-2006, 09:02 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jtlabs:</font><hr>I have used caroms via the 30 degree rule before, and as a result of your research dave, I believe my learning curve has decreased a lot! Even though I still go through trial and error when it comes to determining where the cue ball will go via speed etc.. I get it a whole lot faster when I think in terms of angles and a rolling cue ball and a stun shot.<hr /></blockquote>

FYI, my March '05 and June '05 instructional articles (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/bd_articles/index.html) might help you gain additional insight concerning speed effects. My June '05 article (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/bd_articles/june05.pdf) is especially pertinent because it shows how to shift your 30-degree-rule peace-sign hand down the tangent line to better visualize the final path of the cue ball.

I hope these articles help you improve your intuition and make your learning curve even shorter.

Regards,
Dave

dr_dave
02-01-2006, 09:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jtlabs:</font><hr> Billy_Bob,

are their videos not on his site that is on the dvd or cd? <hr /></blockquote>
The website contains all video clips on the CD-ROM and DVD. The CD-ROM is basically a copy of the website material that directly supports the book. The CD-ROM is useful if you don't have convenient (or fast) Internet access, especially if you have a computer (e.g., a laptop) next to a pool table. The clips on the DVD are full resolution and have higher quality (i.e., they look better), and the DVD contains additional illustrations and narrations not on the website. FYI, you can find out more info (and see an excerpt of the DVD) on my website (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/).

Regards,
Dave

dr_dave
02-01-2006, 10:04 AM
Erik,

You make a good point. Most engineering college professors are never trained to teach. We receive a rigorous technical education (and sometimes, but not often, some practical experience in industry), and then we are thrown into the classroom with the assumption that we will magically know how to teach. The result is that some (even many) college professors are poor teachers (especially at some research universities). Isn't that a terrible state of affairs?

For me, teaching is my passion and I thoroughly enjoy it (and I think I'm even pretty good at it every once in a while).

Regards,
Dave

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote iacas:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> You are a trained educator, obviously a good one, and have the ability to effectively articulate and explain using mass media.<hr /></blockquote>

Just picking a nit: college professors are rarely trained to be educators. He's "trained" (in engineering) and he's an educator (as a professor, a book author, etc.) but I think you know what I mean.

That's not to say that he isn't a good teacher and educator, which I think he is. Just, as I said, picking a nit.

I bought, read, and recommend Dr. Dave's book to those I know who haven't yet read it. And I know someone who just bought the DVD, too. <hr /></blockquote>

Billy_Bob
02-01-2006, 10:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jtlabs:</font><hr> Billy_Bob,

are their videos not on his site that is on the dvd or cd? <hr /></blockquote>

I think (but not sure?) you can find the same videos on his web site which are on the DVD, also written articles on this as well.

However there is a lot of stuff on this web site, some of which is quite advanced. So for someone learning this for the first time, I would think that pointing them to the web site might be a bit confusing - too much information?

I'm teaching a friend this stuff, but I'm leaving out a whole lot of information. I'm just concentrating on the 30 and 90 degree rules for now. And this is a lot to absorb at one time since it totally changes the way you play.

And I know with myself, if I just practice one thing at a time, concentrate on that one thing, I get quite good at doing that one thing.

What does everyone else who has the DVD think?