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06-30-2002, 07:10 PM
Player "A" breaks and drops nothing but thinks he made a ball so he continues to shoot at the 1 ball and sinks it. Player "B" says hey wait a minute, you didn't make a ball on the break. What happens?

Cueless Joey
06-30-2002, 07:13 PM
This happened on a pro-match on video. I forgot who played but Fusco was one of them I believe. Breaker breaks and makes the 5 ball but the 5 ball bounced back. Fusco lets the guy run out while the announcers and the audience couldn't believe it. Hill-hill match to boot.
I believe player b has given up his turns b/c he let A shoot one ball in.

Tom_In_Cincy
06-30-2002, 07:16 PM
Accustats 1st Bloopers video.. its a great one.. lots of good clips..

The shooter, continued to play and even shot the same 5 ball in during the run..

06-30-2002, 07:27 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Joe T:</font><hr> Player "A" breaks and drops nothing but thinks he made a ball so he continues to shoot at the 1 ball and sinks it. Player "B" says hey wait a minute, you didn't make a ball on the break. What happens? <hr></blockquote>

bca 2.26 "protests". in a nutshell, you have until the player hits his next shot to call foul or time out or holeonacesonddammit! something. if he keeps shooting after that, it's his foul. if you fail to say anything then your opportunity to protest has passed.

we went thru a very strange but verified rule explanation here some time ago around the idea that you can change suits (stripes-solids) in the middle of the game by shooting the wrong ball then getting in another shot before the other guy can call foul. in that case as in this one, only the first shot was a foul. "since it was not, then, a foul to hit the next ball then it must be a legal shot."

2.26"...the foul is assumed not to have occured."

strange but true.

dan

06-30-2002, 08:05 PM
There was no first foul like in the 8 ball example. There wasn't a foul until player"A" struck the 1 ball and Player "B" spoke up immediately. Not argueing your point just trying to be sure. Thanks Joe

06-30-2002, 08:31 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Joe T:</font><hr> There was no first foul like in the 8 ball example. There wasn't a foul until player"A" struck the 1 ball and Player "B" spoke up immediately. Not argueing your point just trying to be sure. Thanks Joe <hr></blockquote>

well, shoot. i missunderstood or got confused or stupid or something. now, the first foul is 1.10 "failure to leave the table" . once he got in the shot on the one your opportunity to call that should be gone (loss of game) but i guess you might have a clean foul call on shooting in the one... but maybe not under the previous thedory that he must be entitled to the table (as if had "not occured"). in real life i'd call the foul and go on but i think the case that you blew the chance by not calling his failure to leave the table could have real merit. as a ref, i'd be real intested in how fast all this went. if he spent some time working up that 1-ball shot i might let him go. if he just snapped into it and you had no chance to realize the foul was happening then probably not.

ain't nothin easy in b.c.a.-land

dan

dan

Eric.
07-01-2002, 08:41 AM
Hi Joe,

My understanding(and I think HDJ metioned it too) is that once a foul has occured, you have to call it or lose your chance once the next legal shot happens. This one should be fairly simple in a perfect world. In a perfect world.

Eric &gt;far from perfect

07-01-2002, 10:12 AM
There was no foul until player "A" shot the 1 ball and then did speak up.

Barbara
07-01-2002, 10:34 AM
Joe,

Player B has BIH, the 1-ball stays down, and Player A is on 1 foul.

Barbara

07-01-2002, 10:38 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Barbara:</font><hr> Joe,

Player B has BIH, the 1-ball stays down, and Player A is on 1 foul.

Barbara <hr></blockquote>

and how do you deal with the players first foul: failure to leave the table???

dan

PoolFan
07-01-2002, 10:40 AM
This is a very interesting situation that I don't believe the BCA rules address well enough.

As a tournament director or referee, I would call for a foul on player "A" in this situation since player "B" spoke up quickly.

This issue becomes more difficult if player "B" doesn't notice right away. I believe that if player "B" doesn't notice the foul by the execution of the second shot, no foul can be called.

In these situations, directors and referees must use best judgements.

Eric.
07-01-2002, 10:42 AM
That's exactly what I was saying, Joe. If the player called the foul as soon as the other guy shot the 1 ball, it should be cut n dried as far as what the call is, right?

Eric

Barbara
07-01-2002, 10:58 AM
dan,

The "failure to leave the table" foul is something I would consider along the lines of unsportsmanlike conduct. PLayer A was unaware that he/she didn't pocket a ball and proceeded to play as if she did. Player B called the foul immediately after Player A fouled. Player A wasn't being beligerent, just unaware.

That's how I interpret the situation.

Joe, what did you do?

Barbara

07-01-2002, 11:13 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Barbara:</font><hr> dan,

The "failure to leave the table" foul is something I would consider along the lines of unsportsmanlike conduct. PLayer A was unaware that he/she didn't pocket a ball and proceeded to play as if she did. Player B called the foul immediately after Player A fouled. Player A wasn't being beligerent, just unaware.

That's how I interpret the situation.

Joe, what did you do?

Barbara <hr></blockquote>

barbara, i don't think you can do that. failure to leave is a numbered rule (1.10), separate from unsportsmanlike and, under protest (2.26) the failure to call it means it "did not occur" thus there is no foul in shooting the one-ball.

i know it gets to a silly result but it's the same as that changing suits in 8-ball situation.

clearly you are within your discretion within the powers of the ref but how can you dispute the logic??

dan...should let it go but i'm afraid i'm right.

07-01-2002, 01:29 PM
First I gave player "B" ball in hand and told them to continue play while I try to find it in the book. (which I didn't think I would) Then I came across the Failure to leave the table rule and all it said was if a player fails to leave the table at the end of their inning it is loss of game. Pretty severe I thought but that's the rule I went by. I'm in the process of writing the Joss tour rule book and if this happens I'm going with ball in hand on the 2 for player "b" and no foul if it's not called by the time player "B" shoots the 2 ball.