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pooltchr
02-11-2006, 08:34 AM
Guess our national leaders didn't expect this, hmm? On Thursday,
Darrell Scott, the father of Rachel Scott, a victim of the Columbine
High School shootings in Littleton, Colorado, was invited to address the
House Judiciary Committee's subcommittee What he said to our national
leaders during this special session of Congress was painfully truthful.
They were not prepared for what he was to say, nor was it received well.
It needs to be heard by every parent, every teacher, every politician,
every sociologist, every psychologist, and every so-called expert! These
courageous words spoken by Darrell Scott are powerful, penetrating, and
deeply personal. There is no doubt that God sen t this man as a voice
crying in the wilderness. The following is a portion of the transcript:

"Since the dawn of creation there has been both good & evil in
the hearts of men and women. We all contain the seeds of kindness or the
seeds of violence. The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy Scott,
and the deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other eleven children who
died must not be in vain. Their blood cries out for answers.

"The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his
brother Abel out in the field. The villain was not the club he used..
Neither was it the NCA, the National Club Association. The true killer
was Cain, and the reason for the murder could only be found in Cain's
heart.
"In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed
at how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA. I
am not a member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun.
I am not here to represent or defend the NRA - because I don't believe
that they are responsible for my daughter's death. Therefore I do not
believe that they need to be defended. If I believed they had anything
to do with Rachel's murder I would be their strongest opponent.
I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a
tragedy-it was a spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at
where the real blame lies! Much of the blame lies here in this room.
Much of the blame lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers
themselves. "I wrote a poem just four nights ago that expresses my
feelings best. This was written way before I knew I would be speaking
here today:

Your laws ignore our deepest needs,
Your words are empty air.
You've stripped away our heritage,
You've outlawed simple prayer.
Now gunshots fill our classrooms,
And precious children die.
You seek for answers everywhere,
And ask the question "Why?"
You regulate restrictive laws,
Through legislative creed.
And yet you fail to understand,
That God is what we need!

"Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of
body, soul, and spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of
our make-up, we create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to
rush in and reek havoc. Spiritual presences were present within our
educational systems for most of our nation's history. Many of our major
colleges began as theological seminaries. This is a historical fact.
What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God, and
in so doing, we open the doors to hatred and violence. And when
something as terrible as Columbine's tragedy occurs -- politicians
immediately look for a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek
to pass more restrictive laws that contribute to erode away our personal
and private liberties. We do not need more restrictive laws. "Eric and
Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detec tors. No amount of gun
laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of massacre.
The real villain lies within our own hearts.
"As my son Craig lay under that table in the school
library and saw his two friends murdered before his very eyes-He did not
hesitate to pray in school. I defy any law or politician to deny him
that right! I challenge every young person in America, and around the
world, to realize that on April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School
prayer was brought back to our schools. Do not let the many prayers
offered by those students be in vain. Dare to move into the new
millennium with a sacred disregard for legislation that violates your
God-given right to communicate with Him. To those of you who would point
your finger at the NRA - I give to you a sincere chal lenge. Dare to
examine your own heart before casting the first stone!
My daughter's death will not be in vain! The young
people of this country will not allow that to happen!"

Do what the media did not - - let the nation hear this
man's speech.

Steve

Gayle in MD
02-11-2006, 09:20 AM
Have you ever stopped to consider all the deaths which have been commited over the course of history in the name of one God, or another? Or how many wars are fought over disagreement over what God wants, or Whom and What He is?

IMO, poor parenting, and lack of attention from school officials, were much more likely to be the cause of such a sad tragedy. The lack of communication, and emotional connections between parents and their children are, IMO, much more likely to be cause for mental illness in their children to be overlooked.

There are far too many people having children, who should never be parents, and far too many people, children and adults, who are in drastic need of phychiatric help, who never get it, or don't get it in time to prevent such tragedies. Saying the word GOD, everyday in a classroom, is a very narrow and unrealistic solution for such a broad and complex problem. Huge numbers of murderrers claim to have been following the wishes of God when they kill, for this premise to be accurate, IMO. Organized religion in general does not promote one's self-esteem, nor their mental health, since it is more often than not, based on the premise of guilt.

Islamic terrorists claim to be following the wishes of their God, for example. Ireland suffered through years and years of warring due to differences over organized religion. People have been jailed and killed over Scientific discoveries which did not support the religious dogma at various times in our history.

Much of the division we are seeing in our own political arena exists because of the religious right, and their organized effort to mix religion with political concerns.

Parents, who spend enough time with their children, helping them to discover their own unique value, and teaching them how to love themselves, and love their neighbors, are tremendously more effective in raising healthy, independent, well adjusted adults, than religious dogma could ever be, IMO.

If praying to God everyday was a valid solution for mental problems, I hardly think the Catholic Church would be in the mess it is in today.

Gayle in Md.

pooltchr
02-11-2006, 10:28 AM
You are twisting things again.
I don't think he is implying that saying the name "God" in school is the solution to all our problems. I think he is implying that by denying the existance of God in our schools has not been a healthy change.
When I was growing up, prayer was not banned in school. We started each day in PUBLIC SCHOOL with a daily devotional time. And when I was growing up, kids weren't planning how to blow up schools or kill their fellow students.
I think the possibility certainly exists that the changes that the liberals have brought into the entire education system have had a detrimental impact. True, there are other factors throughout our society that also contribute. This is just one of them.
Steve

Gayle in MD
02-11-2006, 11:51 AM
I'm not twisting anything. He is implying that the absence of saying prayers in the morning is partly the reason why mentally ill kids are killing other kids. That is absolutely absurd. The terrorists were praying when they crashed into the world trade center. If prayer were an antidote to violence, then why is it so prevalent in wrong doing?

I don't know why you connect the lack of prayer in the schools with liberals, but I can certainly understand why some Americans, who don't wish to practice religion, or don't believe in your God, would find prayer in schools as religious intrusion on their own beliefs, whatever they may be. Sunday, is the Sabboth, when parents can feed their kids all the religious dogma they please. What gives the religious right the right to impose their values on the rest of us? Many religions think the Savior is yet to come. Many believe that the concept of God is nothing more than one finding their own highest self. There are many ways to look at spiritual values, but in this country, we have the right to worshhip as we wish, or not worship, as we wish. This is exactly why republicans give me a pain in the neck. They want to legislate their own personal religious beliefs into the lives of all Americans.

BTW, when I was growing up, I recited the Lord's Prayer, every morning on the public address system, and attended Catholic Church every sunday. You accept what you are told when you are a child. When you become an adult, you formulate through your own powers of deduction what is and isn't so. Believe me, the kids who were indoctrinated into organized religion were no different than those who weren't, some much worse. The boys in my town all wanted to get the Catholic School gals into the drive ins, LOL, they were the wildest gals in town. Maybe because there were no boys in their school, or maybe because everything was so forbidden they were even more tempted than they would have been if everyone around them wasn't making such an effort to make them feel guilty about every natural human desire. All I can say is, from a phychological point of view, such statements linking mentally ill kids who perform such acts, to the fact that kids are no longer forced to pray in school, is utterly ridiculous!

Pooltchr...
"I think the possibility exists that the changes that the liberals have brought into the entire education system have had a detrimental impact."

Liberals???? Where are you getting this? What exactly do you think has occurred in our schools which can be laid solely at the foot of liberals? What is your definition of a liberal, anyway? The opposite of an Evangelist? Non praying Americans? People who didn't vote for Bush? Democrats? I don't know where you get this BS.

That's a good one, George Bush is the person who has worsened the educational system in this country, although it was already a mess before he got there. I wouldn't send my daughter to public schools, and she started school in 1968! I paid tuition for sixteen years, to insure that she had the very best education possible, I certainly wasn't about to put her in the educational system offered in this country!


Pooltchr....
"And when I was growing up, kids weren't planning how to blow up schools or kill their fellow students."

I hardly think this statement is a reasonable conclusion, given all the changes which have taken place since you were growing up. When I was growing up, women who really cared about their children, stayed home and raised them, instead of getting jobs, too, and many made financial sacrifices to do so, but that doesn't mean that women working, is causing kids to go down the wrong path.

Parents who provide a good example for their children, are focussed on them, and enjoy being with them, and are there for them always to come to, and rely on, and trust, and give their children plenty of love and admiration, and most of all teach them how to love themselves and others, don't end up with kids who kill. It has nothing to do with religion, or saying a few words every morning.

The inability to feel empathy is at the root of the psychological problems that afflict the kind of kids who kill, that, and not having enough love and supervision at home, atleast not enough for their parents to detect, or admit, that their kids is in trouble, and needs help.

Gayle in Md.

pooltchr
02-11-2006, 06:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> I don't know why you connect the lack of prayer in the schools with liberals... <font color="red">Because it is the liberals, not the conservatives who think anything that might be offensive to others, or anything that doesn't apply to everyone must be wrong! </font color> ...What gives the religious right the right to impose their values on the rest of us? <font color="red"> I don't want to impose anything on anyone...I just think if someone wants to pray in school, the school shouldn't forbid it. And I will guarantee that there is still a lot of praying going on in schools, especially at exam time. </font color> ...in this country, we have the right to worshhip as we wish, <font color="red"> unless it happens to be while in school? </font color> This is exactly why republicans give me a pain in the neck. They want to legislate their own personal religious beliefs into the lives of all Americans. <font color="red"> Republicans give you a pain in the neck because they point out the falacy of your thinking. I don't want to legislate any religeous beliefs into anyone's life. I would just prefer that the government back away from it completely and let people choose how and when they want to practice their religeon. </font color>

When you become an adult, you formulate through your own powers of deduction what is and isn't so. <font color="red">Or you let the liberal media and the democratic party formulate it for you </font color> Believe me, the kids who were indoctrinated into organized religion were no different than those who weren't, some much worse. <font color="red"> I agree...but none of them were blowing up schools or killing their class mates</font color> The boys in my town all wanted to get the Catholic School gals into the drive ins, LOL, they were the wildest gals in town. <font color="red"> Billy Joel pointed that out to the world several years ago </font color> Maybe because there were no boys in their school, or maybe because everything was so forbidden they were even more tempted than they would have been if everyone around them wasn't making such an effort to make them feel guilty about every natural human desire. <font color="red"> Maybe because they were normal kids with the same raging hormones as every other kid in the world </font color> All I can say is, from a phychological point of view, such statements linking mentally ill kids who perform such acts, to the fact that kids are no longer forced <font color="red"> allowed </font color> to pray in school, is utterly ridiculous!

Pooltchr...
"I think the possibility exists that the changes that the liberals have brought into the entire education system have had a detrimental impact."

Liberals???? Where are you getting this? What exactly do you think has occurred in our schools which can be laid solely at the foot of liberals? <font color="red"> Demanding that standards be lowered to allow the disadvantaged kids who don't want to be bothered with working at getting an education, to get a diploma anyway, just because they put in the time. That is "entitlement mentality" fed by the liberal notion that what ever one has, everyone else should be able to have. </font color> What is your definition of a liberal, anyway? <font color="red"> Anyone who supports the redistribution of wealth, be it through taxing the rich, lowering standards of education, out of control welfare, or any number of similar philosophies that take away the idea that each individual is responsible for his or her own decisions. </font color> The opposite of an Evangelist? Non praying Americans? People who didn't vote for Bush? Democrats? I don't know where you get this BS.

That's a good one, George Bush is the person who has worsened the educational system in this country, although it was already a mess before he got there. I wouldn't send my daughter to public schools, and she started school in 1968! I paid tuition for sixteen years, to insure that she had the very best education possible, I certainly wasn't about to put her in the educational system offered in this country! <font color="red"> Good for you. I wouldn't want my kids getting their heads filled with garbage in a system that is more concerned with meeting government regulations for quotas in graduation rates than inactually teaching kids something of value. </font color>


Pooltchr....
"And when I was growing up, kids weren't planning how to blow up schools or kill their fellow students."

I hardly think this statement is a reasonable conclusion, <font color="red"> I think it's a very reasonable conclusion, considering all the changes that have taken place since we were growing up. </font color> given all the changes which have taken place since you were growing up. When I was growing up, women who really cared about their children, stayed home and raised them, instead of getting jobs, too, and many made financial sacrifices to do so, but that doesn't mean that women working, is causing kids to go down the wrong path. <font color="red"> Please tell me you aren't trying to argue that kids with less parental supervision than was normal in the past are not going to find themselves in more trouble than the ones who have parents that are there to watch over them, and care enough to discipline them when they are in the wrong. </font color>

Parents who provide a good example for their children, are focussed on them, and enjoy being with them, and are there for them always to come to, and rely on, and trust, and give their children plenty of love and admiration, and most of all teach them how to love themselves and others, don't end up with kids who kill. It has nothing to do with religion, or saying a few words every morning.
<font color="red"> agreed...until they lose sight of what they are supposed to be doing with their kids. Teaching them right from wrong...not telling them "If it makes you feel good about yourself, it's ok.". Helping them learn that not everyone makes the team...and you might be one who doesn't...or that if you don't keep score, then nobody loses and everyone's self esteem gets coddled. Too many parents want to be their kid's FRIEND, and not their parent. A parent's job is to raise their kids and prepare them for life in the world...not to protect them from damage their poor little ego or hurt their poor little feelings. Kids who are taught that whatever they do is ok because they are entitled to do it are going to have a rude awakening, and won't know how to deal with it. </font color>

The inability to feel empathy is at the root of the psychological problems that afflict the kind of kids who kill, that, and not having enough love and supervision at home, atleast not enough for their parents to detect, or admit, that their kids is in trouble, and needs help.
<font color="red"> And when Mom stages a protest because her little darling didn't have what it takes to make the cheerleading squad, what does that teach the child? It just tells her that whether or not she measures up she should still be given the same things that someone else worked hard to achieve. </font color>

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>
Steve

Gayle in MD
02-11-2006, 07:16 PM
I don't know why you connect the lack of prayer in the schools with liberals... Because it is the liberals, not the conservatives who think anything that might be offensive to others, or anything that doesn't apply to everyone must be wrong! That is absolutely absurd. There are people in this country who do no wish their children to be exposed to the religious beliefs of others on a daily bases, in school. Like it or not, not everyone thinks that religion is necessarily a good thing.

...What gives the religious right the right to impose their values on the rest of us? I don't want to impose anything on anyone...I just think if someone wants to pray in school, the school shouldn't forbid it. And I will guarantee that there is still a lot of praying going on in schools, especially at exam time.

Let's hope, there is a lot of studying going on at exam time, tremendously more realistic than praying for a good grade. Anyway, I'm quite sure, that if any kid wants to pray, that is as long as they aren't compelled to do it on a soap box, no one would even know, unless ofcourse, they are so insecure that they have a need to get everyone else'e agreement that what they believe, is actually so, and believed by all.

...in this country, we have the right to worshhip as we wish, unless it happens to be while in school?


Why yes, public education is for learning, not practicing one's religious beliefs.

This is exactly why republicans give me a pain in the neck. They want to legislate their own personal religious beliefs into the lives of all Americans. Republicans give you a pain in the neck because they point out the falacy of your thinking.


coming from you, I consider that a great compliment

I don't want to legislate any religeous beliefs into anyone's life. I would just prefer that the government back away from it completely and let people choose how and when they want to practice their religeon.


That's funny, isn't that exactly what they HAVE done???

When you become an adult, you formulate through your own powers of deduction what is and isn't so. Or you let the liberal media and the democratic party formulate it for you


I wouldn't know about that. I'm not a party person. However, one would think that those who accept everything that some preacher says, or some shepard, or profit who wrote in a book thousands of years ago, would be considered more of a FOLLOWER than one who educates one self well enough to formulate their own spiritual way in life.


Believe me, the kids who were indoctrinated into organized religion were no different than those who weren't, some much worse. I agree...but none of them were blowing up schools or killing their class mates The boys in my town all wanted to get the Catholic School gals into the drive ins, LOL, they were the wildest gals in town. Billy Joel pointed that out to the world several years ago Maybe because there were no boys in their school, or maybe because everything was so forbidden they were even more tempted than they would have been if everyone around them wasn't making such an effort to make them feel guilty about every natural human desire. Maybe because they were normal kids with the same raging hormones as every other kid in the world All I can say is, from a phychological point of view, such statements linking mentally ill kids who perform such acts, to the fact that kids are no longer forced allowed to pray in school, is utterly ridiculous!

Pooltchr...
"I think the possibility exists that the changes that the liberals have brought into the entire education system have had a detrimental impact."

Liberals???? Where are you getting this? What exactly do you think has occurred in our schools which can be laid solely at the foot of liberals? Demanding that standards be lowered to allow the disadvantaged kids who don't want to be bothered with working at getting an education, to get a diploma anyway, just because they put in the time. That is "entitlement mentality" fed by the liberal notion that what ever one has, everyone else should be able to have. What is your definition of a liberal, anyway? Anyone who supports the redistribution of wealth, be it through taxing the rich, lowering standards of education, out of control welfare, or any number of similar philosophies that take away the idea that each individual is responsible for his or her own decisions.



Again, these statements are so far out I can't even begin to address how ridiculous they are. I think these political labels leave a lot of confusion in their wake. You can be for a fair tax system, without being for setting things up so that the rich end up paying nothing! You can also be for helping the poor, and the downtrodden, without believing that the country has to take care of free loaders.

The opposite of an Evangelist? Non praying Americans? People who didn't vote for Bush? Democrats? I don't know where you get this BS.

That's a good one, George Bush is the person who has worsened the educational system in this country, although it was already a mess before he got there. I wouldn't send my daughter to public schools, and she started school in 1968! I paid tuition for sixteen years, to insure that she had the very best education possible, I certainly wasn't about to put her in the educational system offered in this country! Good for you. I wouldn't want my kids getting their heads filled with garbage in a system that is more concerned with meeting government regulations for quotas in graduation rates than inactually teaching kids something of value.


Pooltchr....
"And when I was growing up, kids weren't planning how to blow up schools or kill their fellow students."

I hardly think this statement is a reasonable conclusion, I think it's a very reasonable conclusion, considering all the changes that have taken place since we were growing up. given all the changes which have taken place since you were growing up. When I was growing up, women who really cared about their children, stayed home and raised them, instead of getting jobs, too, and many made financial sacrifices to do so, but that doesn't mean that women working, is causing kids to go down the wrong path. Please tell me you aren't trying to argue that kids with less parental supervision than was normal in the past are not going to find themselves in more trouble than the ones who have parents that are there to watch over them, and care enough to discipline them when they are in the wrong.


When it comes to twisting words and meanings, you are a real master! Are you sure, that you and Ed aren't related?

Parents who provide a good example for their children, are focussed on them, and enjoy being with them, and are there for them always to come to, and rely on, and trust, and give their children plenty of love and admiration, and most of all teach them how to love themselves and others, don't end up with kids who kill. It has nothing to do with religion, or saying a few words every morning.
agreed...until they lose sight of what they are supposed to be doing with their kids. Teaching them right from wrong...not telling them "If it makes you feel good about yourself, it's ok.". Helping them learn that not everyone makes the team...and you might be one who doesn't...or that if you don't keep score, then nobody loses and everyone's self esteem gets coddled. Too many parents want to be their kid's FRIEND, and not their parent. A parent's job is to raise their kids and prepare them for life in the world...not to protect them from damage their poor little ego or hurt their poor little feelings. Kids who are taught that whatever they do is ok because they are entitled to do it are going to have a rude awakening, and won't know how to deal with it.


And I suppose all those kind of parents, are liberals, and all the kids who kill, do so because their parents are liberals. And all the selfish people in the world, are liberals, And all the problem kids, come from homes where Mothers work, right? And all the crime is commited by black people? I am beginning to understand why you and I clash, thank heaven!

The inability to feel empathy is at the root of the psychological problems that afflict the kind of kids who kill, that, and not having enough love and supervision at home, atleast not enough for their parents to detect, or admit, that their kid is in trouble, and needs help.


And when Mom stages a protest because her little darling didn't have what it takes to make the cheerleading squad, what does that teach the child? It just tells her that whether or not she measures up she should still be given the same things that someone else worked hard to achieve.

Steve

This last statement of yours has nothing to do with religion, or one's political views, it has to do with what YOU come out of, and it isn't very pretty, I must say.

I think you are lumping poor parenting, with political views, and that is a ineffective premise for intelligent comparisons, IOW, you are mixing apples and oranges. I am as much for keeping government out of our lives as possible, and I am certainly not for freeloaders any more than I am for fascists Corporate owned governments. It is the right, and their need to dictate, which has divided this country. And, it is the religious right, which believes that if their politicians are corrupt, or their evangelists are screwing around on their wives, al they have to do is show up on the camera, or the Capital Steps, and cry and beg forgivness form their Savior! I find that disgusting.

Just because they eliminated organized prayer in public schools, doesn't mean that anyone has been forbidden to pray if they so choose.


Gayle in Md.
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