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Drop1
02-13-2006, 08:07 PM
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Any advice on how to make a kiss shot? Where do you hit the cue ball,if the object ball is against the the rail,next to the pocket,and the cue ball is about a foot away directly in front of the object ball.

Jal
02-14-2006, 12:07 AM
I don't know exactly how far off to the side you have to hit the object ball since it depends on how long the object ball stays in contact with the cushion.

But I'll venture a guess that it's best to use some draw on the cueball. On the return kiss off of it, the object ball will then acquire some topspin which will cause it to masse back toward the pocket.

Let's say the topspin it gets is what it would have if it were thrown 2 degrees in the vertical direction by the cueball's backspin. (This is equivalent to a sideways throw of two degrees which isn't too hard to achieve since a ball can be thrown nearly 6 degrees with the right amount of english.) I believe that if after the second collision with the cueball it retains, say, 1/10 of its pre-collision speed, then it will masse almost 10 x 2 degrees or 20 degrees. That's quite a bit and a fuller kiss would produce even more angle. Given the short distance, the object ball doesn't need to retain much speed at all if it was hit with some firmness to begin with.

Just some thoughts.

Jim

Drop1
02-14-2006, 12:00 PM
Your thoughts are much appreciated.Steve

Bob_Jewett
02-14-2006, 03:12 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Drop1:</font><hr>... Where do you hit the cue ball,if the object ball is against the the rail,next to the pocket,and the cue ball is about a foot away directly in front of the object ball. <hr /></blockquote>
In the position shown, you will have much, much better luck kicking the ball in or cutting it in with inside english. That kiss shot might go if you're using a big cue ball. I doubt that it can be made with a normal cue ball.

Have you seen someone make it?

Drop1
02-14-2006, 08:50 PM
Yes,I saw a fellow make that shot,at the Legion last week,and I wondered how he did it. He hit the object ball,and it came away from the rail at a slight angle, hitting the cue ball,and fell into the pocket.

Bob_Jewett
02-15-2006, 10:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Drop1:</font><hr> Yes,I saw a fellow make that shot,at the Legion last week,and I wondered how he did it. He hit the object ball,and it came away from the rail at a slight angle, hitting the cue ball,and fell into the pocket. <hr /></blockquote>
Does the Legion have large cue balls?

Jal
02-15-2006, 12:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Drop1:</font><hr> Yes,I saw a fellow make that shot,at the Legion last week,and I wondered how he did it. He hit the object ball,and it came away from the rail at a slight angle, hitting the cue ball,and fell into the pocket. <hr /></blockquote>
Does the Legion have large cue balls? <hr /></blockquote>Bob, could you explain how a larger ball would help?

In my Wei diagram, it looked like the object ball was off the cushion a little, but after reading your post and Steve's again, I see that he said the object ball is against the rail. I would think that a smaller cueball would be better in that it would rebound away slightly after the first collision and allow the object ball an unimpeded path to the pocket after the second collision. And I think the masse action would correct the path.

Any clarification would be appreciated.

Jim

Drop1
02-15-2006, 01:24 PM
It is a 7'bar table with returns at each pocket. The cue ball,is a little heavier,but I don't know about the size.

Bob_Jewett
02-15-2006, 04:07 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Drop1:</font><hr> It is a 7'bar table with returns at each pocket. The cue ball,is a little heavier,but I don't know about the size. <hr /></blockquote>
It's the weight that's important. Kiss shots work differently with heavy cue balls because the cue ball continues to move forward after full contact. Further, the light object ball, when it hits the cue ball a second time, tends to bounce back more than for a normal cue ball.

I suggest you try experimenting with different fullnesses of hit. When you find a good fullness to pocket the ball with the heavy cue ball, try using an object ball as the cue ball and see if that works.

Robert Byrne covered this shot in one of his books, maybe "Advanced Technique." Randy Givens probably also covers it in his "Eight Ball Bible" which discusses big cue ball techniques.

I believe the shot you illustrated is not possible with normal balls and cushions.