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View Full Version : APA rule?????



wolfdancer
02-19-2006, 06:33 PM
Last nite a guy said that he had played in an APA tournament, and his opponent called and made the 8 ball.....however, he mistakenly used the one as the cueball. Here's where it gets odd....the TD said the 8 gets respotted, no loss of game since
it was cueball foul only.....the league operator verified this, and said it was the same at the nationals.
It don't sound right....seems like it should be more then just a foul, anytime you use anything but the cueball to move balls?

cf8ball
02-19-2006, 06:59 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> Last nite a guy said that he had played in an APA tournament, and his opponent called and made the 8 ball.....however, he mistakenly used the one as the cueball. Here's where it gets odd....the TD said the 8 gets respotted, no loss of game since
it was cueball foul only.....the league operator verified this, and said it was the same at the nationals.
It don't sound right....seems like it should be more then just a foul, anytime you use anything but the cueball to move balls? <hr /></blockquote>

Last time I checked, if you foul when pocketing the 8-ball it is loss of game.

ABQ_Poolhead
02-19-2006, 07:39 PM
Wolfdancer,
Pretty gray area, but after reviewing the 8-ball rules, original call seems correct. By your description, there was no cueball foul, as the cueball wasn't touched. The rule book reads as follows...
"10. There are various ways to lose:
a. Your opponent pockets his numerical group and
legally pockets the 8-ball.
b. You pocket the 8-ball out of turn or knock it on the
floor.
c. You pocket the 8-ball in the wrong pocket or fail to
properly mark the pocket.
d. You foul the cue ball and then pocket the 8-ball.
e. When playing the 8-ball, you scratch.
Note: A player attempting to shoot the 8-ball but missing it has fouled, resulting in ball-in-hand for his opponent. This is NOT loss of game.
f. A game is forfeited if you alter the course of the
8-ball or the cue ball in a game losing situation."

According to your description, not even a ball-in-hand foul was committed, as all ball-in-hand fouls must either fall into one of two categories: foul with cueball, or illegal coaching. Any ball accidentally moved is replaced by opponent (i.e. the 1-ball in your example)in original spot, UNLESS the ball which was accidentally moved contacted the cueball, in which case a ball-in-hand foul has been committed where opponent would receive ball-in-hand and accidentally-moved ball would remain where it came to rest.
Pretty sticky area. You can check your rules at the APA website.

wolfdancer
02-19-2006, 09:57 PM
That sounds right....somebody goofed

walt8880
02-20-2006, 02:22 AM
So you're saying that if I am shooting stripes and have a position like below, I could use my 13 as the cue, pot the eight, which would then get spotted on the foot spot with my opponent shooting at it from on the head rail and my 13 ball down table if he misses?

Doesn't sound right to me if that is the rule.

Seems to me like it should be an unsportsmanlike conduct foul with loss of game.

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cf8ball
02-20-2006, 04:27 AM
What about rule #9 h. "If, during the course of a shot, the cue ball does not touch anything."
If the player during the execution of a shot fails to touch anything with the cueball it is a foul! The rule does not say he must be shooting at the cueball. In their own reasoning (see the paragraph under fouling, rule 9)they (APA) state, "The ball-in-hand rule penalizes a player for an error. Without this rule, a player could benefit by accidentally or purposely scratching or otherwise fouling."
Seems to me this player committed an "error". Therefore fouling when pocketing the 8 ball should be loss of game.

pooltchr
02-20-2006, 05:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cf8ball:</font><hr> What about rule #9 h. "If, during the course of a shot, the cue ball does not touch anything."
If the player during the execution of a shot fails to touch anything with the cueball it is a foul! The rule does not say he must be shooting at the cueball. In their own reasoning (see the paragraph under fouling, rule 9)they (APA) state, "The ball-in-hand rule penalizes a player for an error. Without this rule, a player could benefit by accidentally or purposely scratching or otherwise fouling."
Seems to me this player committed an "error". Therefore fouling when pocketing the 8 ball should be loss of game. <hr /></blockquote>
Scratching while shooting at the 8 is loss of game. Any other foul while shooting the 8 is BIH.
Steve

cf8ball
02-20-2006, 07:01 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote cf8ball:</font><hr> What about rule #9 h. "If, during the course of a shot, the cue ball does not touch anything."
If the player during the execution of a shot fails to touch anything with the cueball it is a foul! The rule does not say he must be shooting at the cueball. In their own reasoning (see the paragraph under fouling, rule 9)they (APA) state, "The ball-in-hand rule penalizes a player for an error. Without this rule, a player could benefit by accidentally or purposely scratching or otherwise fouling."
Seems to me this player committed an "error". Therefore fouling when pocketing the 8 ball should be loss of game. <hr /></blockquote>
Scratching while shooting at the 8 is loss of game. Any other foul while shooting the 8 is BIH.
Steve <hr /></blockquote>

Does that not fly in the face of APA rule #10b,c, d, &amp; f?

pooltchr
02-20-2006, 08:53 AM
I stand corrected.
Steve

cf8ball
02-20-2006, 10:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> I stand corrected.
Steve <hr /></blockquote>

No...I think the APA needs to be corrected. LOL

They have always had conflict with their rules. I remember that well from about 20 years ago when I was a Div Rep and a Referee for APA. I did not like their rules then nor do I like them now. I wish they would show their support for the BCA by adopting BCA rules.

wolfdancer
02-20-2006, 11:57 AM
No, I'm not saying that....i've never played APA, and was told this the other nite....it didn't sound right....so I'm asking, not telling