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07-02-2002, 02:27 PM
I've heard mixed advice on this, when using draw do you make contact and pull back quickly, or have a full follow through after contact?
Thanks.

PQQLK9
07-02-2002, 02:39 PM
Follow

SpiderMan
07-02-2002, 02:47 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: ddb182:</font><hr> I've heard mixed advice on this, when using draw do you make contact and pull back quickly, or have a full follow through after contact?
Thanks. <hr></blockquote>

Depends on how close the cueball is to the object ball. Follow-through on garden-variety shots with lots of room. On close shots, this would result in a double-hit foul. With a practiced nip-draw technique, you can get good draw and avoid the foul when the balls are only an inch or so apart.

SpiderMan

Scott Lee
07-02-2002, 04:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: SpiderMan:</font><hr> Depends on how close the cueball is to the object ball. Follow-through on garden-variety shots with lots of room. On close shots, this would result in a double-hit foul. With a practiced nip-draw technique, you can get good draw and avoid the foul when the balls are only an inch or so apart.

SpiderMan <hr></blockquote>

Good answer! To take it a hair further...NEVER pull the cue back after the forward stroke, when trying to draw the CB back. Not only is it unnecessary, it is actually detrimental to trying to learn the "smooth" stroke (defined as a beautiful forward throwing motion). Let the cue work for you, not against you. The jerky motions of trying to pull the cue back after stroking the CB will make drawing the CB easily much more difficult. Like Spiderman said... the only time you won't followthrough completely on a draw stroke, is when the two balls (CB &amp; OB) are very close together! In this instance you must move your bridge MUCH closer to the CB...perhaps as close as 2 inches. This means your followthrough will also be short...so that you do not double hit the CB (as described by Spiderman).

Scott Lee

TonyM
07-02-2002, 10:56 PM
Here is my take on this:

Start wearing earplugs to the poolroom!Lol!
Seriously, anyone that is giving you advice as bad as pulling the cue backwards to get draw should not be listened to - period!

Simply aim low, use the correct speed, and follow through. That's all you need to get good draw.

Get those earplugs, and see a good instructor.

Tony
-I've heard some of the most amazingingly bad advice in poolrooms over the years,,,

griffith_d
07-03-2002, 07:26 AM
Spiderman is right about pulling back on balls being close. But ALWAYS follow through for draw,..."pull back" only to get out of the way of the retreating CB as to not foul after the short follow through.

Griff

9 Ball Girl
07-03-2002, 08:05 AM
I think you should follow through and stay down on all your shots--with some exceptions of course for instance when the CB is close to the OB.

07-03-2002, 10:59 AM
You *NEVER* pull back. If someone is telling you to quickly pull the cue back after contact, they simply don't know what they're talking about. There are cases, however, where you might pull back quickly to avoid the cue ball coming back and hitting your cue. If you're unsure as to which advice is correct, just watch any professional play. You won't find one who jerks the cue back quickly after contacting the cue ball.

07-03-2002, 11:07 AM
i can only imagine that in asking such a question you've seen the pool hall players(usually young, and in my area seemingly always with a sideways cap and sunglasses in the evening..lots of gold chains) with the exaggerated "snap" to get draw on the ball. yes they acceive good draw at times but absolutley not from the exaggerated motions involved. as suggested by other posters, draw can only be acheived through forward cue motion. if in the case that two balls are very close together, more likely than not draw isn't your best option anyway. a solid repeatable smooth stroke is far and away the most important core of quality play. leave to flashy "bling bling" strokes to the slim shady apers.

in best regards i hope to remain,
^v^

07-03-2002, 11:09 AM
i can only imagine that in asking such a question you've seen the pool hall players(usually young, and in my area seemingly always with a sideways cap and sunglasses in the evening..lots of gold chains) with the exaggerated "snap" to get draw on the ball. yes they achieve good draw at times but absolutley not from the exaggerated motions involved. as suggested by other posters, good draw on the ivory can only be achieved through forward cue motion. if in the case that two balls are very close together, more likely than not draw isn't your best option anyway. a solid repeatable smooth stroke is far and away the most important core of quality play. leave to flashy "bling bling" strokes to the slim shady apers.

in best regards i hope to remain,
^v^

07-03-2002, 11:27 AM
sorry about double post..arrggg. i reformatted recently and it seems as though IE4 doesn't allow one to stop and refresh without this problem. also my poor spelling is visible(:-)) to all. spell checkers have ruined any impressed memories i have on how to spell even the most common things. i am as dependant on my auto spell checker as any drug addict. as i crawl back under my rock know that in time, when i reinstall my auto spell checker, i will return with more pretense and abandon than ever. hell i have a semblance of good health! maybe poor spelling is a sign of good health? it probably is! another research essay begins! all but my head is now tucked in and i feel safe. safe enough to shout to the world the lesson heard from ailing grandparants the world round. take the time to appreciate your health, even at odd moments. no matter your wealth or apparant living ease, even happiness, health problems can take everything and make living cold and distant and painful. appreciate your time and screw spelling! in the words of Billygoat "F.. more B.... less"
good food, good wine, good beer, good ramblings, good love, good bye and good grammar,
^v^

Tom_In_Cincy
07-03-2002, 11:30 AM
For medium speed draw:

http://www.billiardworld.com/drawmed.gif

For shots close to the object ball:

http://www.billiardworld.com/drawshrt.gif

Michelle
07-03-2002, 11:44 AM
Even when the cue ball is close to the object ball, you still need to follow through. There are two ways that you can avoid having the cue ball come back and hit the tip of your cue.

1) Shorten the distance of your bridge hand from the CB. Your follow through won't be as long that way.
2) If the CB still might hit your tip, use your bridge hand to move the cue stick out of the way. You can make a fist, which will raise the stick up some. You can flip your hand (with your cue still in it), which will move your stick to the side. Or you can raise your whole forearm straight up.
Whichever way you choose, make sure to practice it some -- if not, the first time you try it in a game, you may end up bruising your chin with your stick!

07-03-2002, 12:23 PM
Tom??? you really think that top picture is an accurate amount of follow through for drawing a ball?

Tom_In_Cincy
07-03-2002, 12:24 PM
Some players have more follow through, some have less,
Would you like to post a pic of what you think the distance should be?

07-03-2002, 12:25 PM
I would think then that exaggerating the follow would be more valuable information.. showing that picture might really mess up a beginners thoughts on follow

Tom_In_Cincy
07-03-2002, 12:27 PM
Exaggeration would confuse them too, from your reasoning.

07-03-2002, 12:33 PM
I dont think i would ever advocate taking your cue off of your bridge hand it would in my opinion be detremental to your normal stroke perhaps making your cue jump off your brodge hand when you do need a good long follow.....I think a poke draw shot is best executed with a medium-soft stroke with an eleveted cue that way the follow through goes down towards the table and not into the cueball giving you time to raise your bridge hand out of the way

07-03-2002, 12:34 PM
so in your opinion is it better to follow through more or less???

Scott Lee
07-03-2002, 01:03 PM
Depends on whether or not you drop your elbow. With a normal pendulum swing, the followthrough will be a normal action that finishes between 4 &amp; 8 inchs past the CB. Dropping your elbow will definitely increase this distance...sometimes to the ridiculous!

Scott

Tom_In_Cincy
07-03-2002, 01:31 PM
less when the cue ball is closer to the object ball..

07-03-2002, 01:49 PM
This is going back to about 65. When I learned draw I was taught it is easier to drawn if you use an angle instead of drawing exactly straight back. And when you drawn with an angle you can think of it as if you are trying to push the cue ball off the object ball. The more you push or more follow you use, the more you can draw. Then I was taught to not pull back the cue at all unless necessary. And if possible not to move my bridge hand for a second or two. This was to enforce the thought process or learning process of the follow thru or pushing the cue off the object ball as being responsible for the draw.

edited or added:
I learned this when I was about 13. It was explained something like that most of us were trying to quickly pull the cue stick back like it was drawing the cue ball back. And that this wasn't the best way to use draw. That's what I meant by using follow and trying to push the cue ball off the object ball. You can probably understand what I'm trying to say easier when you go off the object ball at an angle instead of when you have to draw straight back.

SPetty
07-03-2002, 02:47 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: redwinebluebird:</font><hr> sorry about double post..arrggg. ... also my poor spelling is visible(:-)) to all. <hr></blockquote>Hello redwinebluebird,

Don't forget that with this new board, you can easily delete a post that you have posted, and you can also easily go back and edit a post that you have posted to correct the spelling or to fix or add anything else that might need fixing or adding. To do either, just press the "edit" link.

As to this post - wow. Interesting ramblings. Wine for breakfast? That can be fun sometimes.

Michelle
07-03-2002, 04:03 PM
Oh, no, I never meant with any of those procedures that your stick should ever come up off of your bridge hand. I'm sorry if it read that way...

All these of those techniques are effective, but by no means should your stick ever leave your bridge hand while using them! LOL

MikeM
07-03-2002, 04:11 PM
F*** more, B**** less!

Lorri, I think you've found your next signature!

MM...and I, a new philosophy!

07-03-2002, 04:23 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> less when the cue ball is closer to the object ball..
<hr></blockquote>


well tom we both know that in my first reply to you I very clearly stated that it was your picture of the medium draw shot that was incorrect and not the one where the balls were close.... basically I will take from your posts that you either have no idea what the correct amount of follow is or you are just too ignorent to know when to admit that you were wrong.

07-03-2002, 04:27 PM
so you think that his picture accurately defines what a normal follow through on a medium paced draw shot should be???

07-03-2002, 05:15 PM
so you think that his picture accurately defines what a normal follow through on a medium paced draw shot should be???


No. the graphic only represents about 1 and 3/4 inch follow through given the fact cue ball is 2 and 1/4 inch.--noteeth

Tom_In_Cincy
07-04-2002, 09:00 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>basically I will take from your posts that you either have no idea what the correct amount of follow is or you are just too ignorent to know when to admit that you were wrong.<hr></blockquote>

d0wnt0wn,

Last year when you were showing your butt on this forum, I swore I would never reply to any of your posts, ever. Recently I thought you were changing your attitude and started to post decent replies and original posts. Now, I see you are just the way you were last year.

I am amazed and saddened that you continue to waste your time with this forum. I really thought you were making improvements in joining CCB and its posters.

I am also amazed that you waste your time replying to the likes of me that "have no idea" or "is too ignorant know what I am talking about".

I am going to continue ignore you like I did last year.

I do not associate with the likes of you and your insults.
You've had too many chances, in my book, for me to waste any more time on you or your replies.

07-04-2002, 09:45 AM
so basically what you are saying is you either have no idea what the correct amount of follow is or you are just too ignorent to know when to admit that you were wrong.

07-05-2002, 03:10 PM
I don't think there is such a thing as a correct amount of follow-through on any shot (while I would agree that there is such thing as an INCORRECT amount). The follow-through is a by-product of the speed of the stroke. A player wouldn't force more follow-through than would be generated by the speed of the shot, nor would a player deliberately stop the follow-through short. The follow-through is just a natural continuation of the stroke, and shouldn't be consiously disrupted at all. The amount of follow-through is also affected by mechanics, of course (i.e., as one poster suggested, amount of elbow drop). If you've seen Alan Hopkins play, the graphic that Tom posted would probably be a fairly accurate representation of his follow through. However, if you've seen Bustamante play, the graphic that Tom posted isn't even close. I do think, however, that it is a fair representation of the amount of follow through relative to the two shots (small amount of draw vs. a greater amount of draw). It isn't a fair representation because a player would make a conscious effort to shorten or lengthen the follow-through for the two shots that are represented. It is a fair representation because, a shot in which the cue-ball is only to draw back a small amount is going to be hit softer than one that is played to draw back a further distance, hence, the follow through would be shorter, or longer, depending on how hard the cue ball was struck.