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View Full Version : The Truth About The Troops, Murtha was right



Gayle in MD
03-01-2006, 09:25 AM
Nicholas D. Kristof of the NY Times wrote yesterday....

"When President Bush held a public meeting with troops by Satellite last Fall, they were miraculously upbeat. Remember how it turned out they were coached?

HOGWASH, A new poll to be released today shows that U.S. soldiers overwhelmingly want out of Iraq and soon.

Only 23 percent backed Mr Bush's position that they should stay as long as necesary. In contrast, 72 percent said the U.S. Troops should be pulled out within a year, and of those, 29 percent said they should withdraw immediately."

"BBC poll reports people across the world overwhelmingly beleive the War in Iraq has increased the likelihood of Terrorist Attacks Worldwide, some 60% of people in 35 countries surveyed believe this is the case, against just 12 percent who think Terrorist Attacks have become less likely."

Kristof is, BTW, Another right-wing journalist to abandon Bush, and critisize his policies. Republicans have already gone berserk trying to discredit these poll numbers, LOL.

In my own experience, I find that of the soldiers I have spoken with, one in ten seem supportive of Bush's Iraq policy. The subject they speak about most is how depressing it is to train the Iraqis, only to learn later that they (Shiites) have used that training, and US weapons, to kill Sunnis and Americans. One can only hope that Americans will begin to listen closely to what John Murtha has been trying so hard to get across to them. As Iraq continues its Civil War, which has really been a Civil War for months, at the least, maybe years, our troops will still be caught up in a disasterous no win situation. Is that really worth helping George save face for the worst judgement in our history? Is patriotism measured by ones ability to deny reality. Isn't the definition of insanity....to do the same thing, over and over, and expect a different result.

If this isn't insanity, I don't know what is.

Gayle in Md.

eg8r
03-01-2006, 10:13 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Nicholas D. Kristof of the NY Times wrote yesterday....

"When President Bush held a public meeting with troops by Satellite last Fall, they were miraculously upbeat. Remember how it turned out they were coached?

HOGWASH, A new poll to be released today shows that U.S. soldiers overwhelmingly want out of Iraq and soon.

Only 23 percent backed Mr Bush's position that they should stay as long as necesary. In contrast, 72 percent said the U.S. Troops should be pulled out within a year, and of those, 29 percent said they should withdraw immediately."

"BBC poll reports people across the world overwhelmingly beleive the War in Iraq has increased the likelihood of Terrorist Attacks Worldwide, some 60% of people in 35 countries surveyed believe this is the case, against just 12 percent who think Terrorist Attacks have become less likely."

Kristof is, BTW, Another right-wing journalist to abandon Bush, and critisize his policies. Republicans have already gone berserk trying to discredit these poll numbers, LOL. <hr /></blockquote> Watch out everyone, here is another poll which Gayle feels will prove her point. Can you possibly let us read the questions that were asked. In case you don't know (and I am sure you would not care) these questions can be asked in a way that will not provide an honest answer. For all we know, the question was "Now that things are moving along a lot smoother than even 6 months ago, do you believe that within a year Iraq could take control themselves completely". Well if they all answered Yes, you would be here stating they all hate it over there and do not agree with Bush, when in actuality they are saying something completely different.

If you were even more interested in understanding the real truth behind the survey results it would be nice to find out which soldiers (not asking names) were part of the survey, what they have experienced while over there, and what their party affiliation is. Wouldn't it just give you goose bumps if they surveyed only Dems who have had only horrible experiences while they were there. If anyone was to actually investigate these surveys I am willing to bet there would be nothing random about the sampling.

eg8r

wolfdancer
03-01-2006, 10:38 AM
Gayle, caught some of that on the news last nite. While Ed's scenario...trick questions...is a possibility, it's more likely that the questions were straightforward.
While the reasons for the war itself, are buried deep within the Bush brain,trying to force democracy onto a country is a bad idea.

eg8r
03-01-2006, 10:48 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Gayle, caught some of that on the news last nite. While Ed's scenario...trick questions...is a possibility, it's more likely that the questions were straightforward.
<hr /></blockquote> Why, what sort of history or example would you have to prove this? None, it is just a guess. My example was not given as a trick, at least as far as tricking the soldiers. Rather it is just an example of how the person passing the information to you could twist it.

eg8r

wolfdancer
03-01-2006, 12:52 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Why, what sort of history or example would you have to prove this? None, it is just a guess. My example was not given as a trick, at least as far as tricking the soldiers. Rather it is just an example of how the person passing the information to you could twist it. <hr /></blockquote>
Lets see if I got this right:
You gave an example, a suppostion, that the questions could have been tricked to ellicit a reply that the pollster was seeking in advance.
I made another supposition, a guess, that chances were, the questions were legit.....otherwise the story would have no meaning (you would argue that point....actually you argue everything)
I'll give our troops a little more intellectual respect then you might....if the questions were biased, we would have heard from some of them by now that the poll was a sham.
So your guess goes unchllenged, but I need data to support mine? Classic Orwellism
I didn't see your picture....but were you at the Orlando rally?


web page (http://www.flickr.com/photos/iamchrisjett/sets/72057594070463397/)

wolfdancer
03-01-2006, 01:01 PM
Ed, you're probably right ,,,,I'd guess that most of the soldiers were poor Democrats....they might not have been Democrats before they ended up in Iraq.....but about five minutes afterwards...........
Say, I had this sudden thought....since most of your posts are so immature, maybe you really are some 15 yr old kid, posing as this self rightous, arrogant, close minded, **** just trying to agitate people, evoke a response.....c'mon, fess up...

eg8r
03-01-2006, 02:17 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I made another supposition, a guess, that chances were, the questions were legit.....otherwise the story would have no meaning (you would argue that point....actually you argue everything) <hr /></blockquote> I questioned why you thought that way. More often than not the questions are biased and written in a specific way to generate a specific response. Your gave the benefit-of-the-doubt that the surveyor did not use this tried and true practice so I questioned it. Don't get your panties in a twist it was only a question, and surely you don't believe you are too high and mighty to not be questioned.

[ QUOTE ]
I'll give our troops a little more intellectual respect then you might <hr /></blockquote> This is not about their intellectual respect (it is quickly turning into another comprehension thing with you). This is about the surveyor. With the majority of these questions, it does not matter how they are answered, the surveyor has the ability to twist the outcome to suit his needs. Why is this so difficult for you to understand. It has nothing to do with the soldiers.

[ QUOTE ]
if the questions were biased, we would have heard from some of them by now that the poll was a sham.
<hr /></blockquote> That statement is complete B.S. and you know it. You never ever ever hear complaints about the bias of a survey from those surveyed. Give me a break.

[ QUOTE ]
So your guess goes unchllenged, but I need data to support mine? <hr /></blockquote> It goes unchallenged if you don't challenge it. What is this with you, you are acting ridiculous. Why would state something I thought and then question myself. YOU NEED TO ASK THE QUESTION, I DON'T NEED TO PROVIDE IT FOR YOU.

eg8r

eg8r
03-01-2006, 02:21 PM
[ QUOTE ]

Say, I had this sudden thought....since most of your posts are so immature, maybe you really are some 15 yr old kid, posing as this self rightous, arrogant, close minded, **** just trying to agitate people, evoke a response.....c'mon, fess up... <hr /></blockquote> Maybe that is it. LOL, and to think, along with this post you made another post in which you used the words "intellectual respect" when referring to the soldiers. After this post of yours, I am glad you give me no reason to hold you in the same regard as the soldiers. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

wolfdancer
03-01-2006, 05:22 PM
Ed, what I really meant to say was respect that they could discern,the difference between a question that actually offered two clear choices...as opposed to your belief,that the questions were misleading and they wouldn't know because the only reasons they are over there fighting, was that they aren't smart enough, or connected politically enough, to avoid the conflict......like all the chicken hawk right wingers....who are too old to enlist themselves, and don't want their sons and daughters involved
You all gloat about this esshole you elected....but he won on only two points...a phony tax cut,and a smear attack on Kerry.
I can't see one thing he has done in office that has benefited the country as a whole....and many things he has done to take this country down....
The Dems may not have had a real platform lately.....but all they have to do is list the damage this *** idiot has done, and say they'll try to undo it.
W

Gayle in MD
03-01-2006, 07:41 PM
I agree. How confusing can it be to ask someone....
Do you agree with the president's policy to stay in Iraq for as long as necessary?

How long do you think the troops should stay here in Iraq?

Gee, these are really trick questions. Don't you find it funny how the righties on here never question Bush's phoney, rehearsed, televised photo ops with the "coached" troops.

I wish everyone could hear the things I hear from them. Moreover, I wish everyone could see what I see.

Gayle in Md.

Qtec
03-01-2006, 10:45 PM
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075

What I thought was interesting was.....

"While 85% said the U.S. mission is mainly “to retaliate for Saddam’s role in the 9-11 attacks,” 77% said they also believe the main or a major reason for the war was “to stop Saddam from protecting al Qaeda in Iraq.”."

How is this possible? Dont they know that both claims have been proven to be untrue?
Even the 9/11 comission agrees!
Q

eg8r
03-02-2006, 04:44 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I agree. How confusing can it be to ask someone....
Do you agree with the president's policy to stay in Iraq for as long as necessary?

How long do you think the troops should stay here in Iraq?
<hr /></blockquote> Were those the exact questions asked? You guys are taking this personal and it does not make sense. You did not write the survey so don't take it personal. I just was interested in knowing what the questions were.

[ QUOTE ]
Gee, these are really trick questions. Don't you find it funny how the righties on here never question Bush's phoney, rehearsed, televised photo ops with the "coached" troops. <hr /></blockquote> Another dumb statement from the group that calls themselves "intelligent". LOL, get a grip on yourselves. Everyone knows that all Presidents are rehearsed and televised photoops are coached. LOL, it is like you guys turn off your brains and act like everything W does is original, you really need to wake up.

[ QUOTE ]
I wish everyone could hear the things I hear from them. Moreover, I wish everyone could see what I see.
<hr /></blockquote> I would like to be the first person to state, I am happy I don't hear and see the things Gayle sees. It has already been pointed out that Gayle is possibly schizophrenic and that is just too much for one person to handle. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

eg8r
03-02-2006, 05:13 AM
Well, anyone want to spend $20 to get the questions. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif It is not that important to me.

There are plenty of interesting things in this link... [ QUOTE ]
The survey shows that most U.S. military personnel in-country have a clear sense of right and wrong when it comes to using banned weapons against the enemy, and in interrogation of prisoners. Four in five said they oppose the use of such internationally banned weapons as napalm and white phosphorous. And, even as more photos of prisoner abuse in Iraq surface around the world, 55% said it is not appropriate or standard military conduct to use harsh and threatening methods against insurgent prisoners in order to gain information of military value. <hr /></blockquote> Apparently 55% of the soldiers do not agree with Gayle. They did not give the percentages of who did agree with Gayle or the % of those who had no opinion.

[ QUOTE ]
Ninety-three percent said that removing weapons of mass destruction is not a reason for U.S. troops being there,” said Pollster John Zogby, President and CEO of Zogby International. “Instead, that initial rationale went by the wayside and, in the minds of 68% of the troops, the real mission became to remove Saddam Hussein.” Just 24% said that “establishing a democracy that can be a model for the Arab World" was the main or a major reason for the war. Only small percentages see the mission there as securing oil supplies (11%) or to provide long-term bases for US troops in the region (6%).
<hr /></blockquote> A huge margin of soldiers believe removing Saddam was the mission. As you can see some of the questions are surely skeptical. Q pointed out some questions about the US Mission to retaliate for Saddam's role in 9-11 and protecting Al Qaeda. Then there is a question that asks whether or not WMDs were the real mission (which the troops no longer agree with) and then the ones in the quote I copied. The survey says the initial rationale was WMDs and now it is removing Saddam. However it also says the mission is mainly to retaliate. C'mon, this survey probably confused those putting it together much less those filling it out.

It was also interesting to see that the soldiers (who are actually doing the work) do not believe we are there to take over their oil or build long-term bases. How many times have we heard people on this board state we were there for oil? LOL, only to see gas prices sky rocket and not much done about it.

All surveys are interesting even if the subject matter is boring. It is fun and nice to see what people have chosen on the survey but like most politically-driven polls, you take it with a grain of salt. How many polls actually showed Kerry had a chance in the elections? All of them? Then he got whalloped when the voters spoke for real.

Thanks for the link Q, at this time the survey is not worth the money so I will leave it at that.

eg8r

eg8r
03-02-2006, 05:21 AM
[ QUOTE ]
...as opposed to your belief,that the questions were misleading and they wouldn't know because the only reasons they are over there fighting, was that they aren't smart enough, or connected politically enough, to avoid the conflict <hr /></blockquote> LOL, you can add as many words as you would like but that is not what I said. When are you going to just read what I posted and leave it at that. There is not reason for you to add all this extra crap.

[ QUOTE ]
You all gloat about this esshole you elected....but he won on only two points...a phony tax cut,and a smear attack on Kerry.
<hr /></blockquote> Just for the record you only need one point to win. According to you W was the overachiever. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Clearly he was the right choice.

[ QUOTE ]
I can't see one thing he has done in office that has benefited the country as a whole.... <hr /></blockquote> And you would never admit it if you had.

[ QUOTE ]
The Dems may not have had a real platform lately.....but all they have to do is list the damage this *** idiot has done, and say they'll try to undo it.
<hr /></blockquote> We will see. You are the party of intelligence, lets see if you guys will actually use the intelligence to win or continue your self-destructive ways. Don't put a guy up on the platform to run and give the image of a great war hero. You might be surprised midway through that the guys that actually fought with him, saw him as the phony he really is. LOL, it is sad to think a little self-inflicted cut is something that could earn a purple heart and give someone the false courage to believe they could run on that to win the Presidency.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
03-02-2006, 06:18 AM
Thanks for the link, Q. That is the part that I think is so sad, that most of them are fighting for the very things that the President, Cheney, and Rice lied about. They are dying for a concocted, Republican lie. No connection to al Qaeda, and no WMD's. Once that was proven, Bush had to change the mission over to "Spreading Democracy"..... Our Constitution does not state "Empire Building, or Nation Building" as American goals. Everywhere he goes in the world, people are in the streets shouting "Death To Bush, Death To America".....All the polls in this country, regardless of who performs them, or how they are performed, show the same thing. The vast majority of Americans believe that Bush lied, and that the war was a mistake. He has one of the lowest approval rates on record. Yet, these dummies that voted for him, are calling the rest of us stupid! AH HA HA HA.....

We're hypocrites, but Ed is on here constantly degraded all the poor in New Orleans, who didn't plan to lose everything they own in a hurricane, and at the same time, he has PLANS for mooching in his own future, LOL...talk about hypocracy!

Gayle in Md.

pooltchr
03-02-2006, 06:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Everywhere he goes in the world, people are in the streets shouting "Death To Bush, Death To America".....
Gayle in Md.

<hr /></blockquote>

I hate to break the news, but those same people have been shouting the same thing about America long before Bush was elected. They, and apparently you along with them, don't like the idea that he is standing up to them.
Your turban isn't on straight!
Steve

Qtec
03-02-2006, 07:19 AM
Sure, I get your point and I agree that before one can properly make a conclusion on this poll, you need to see the questions- but some answers were revealing. You still have a large amount of people fighting a war who cant agree about what they are fighting for or why!

[ QUOTE ]
It was also interesting to see that the soldiers (who are actually doing the work) do not believe we are there to take over their oil or build long-term bases. How many times have we heard people on this board state we were there for oil? LOL, only to see gas prices sky rocket and not much done about it. <hr /></blockquote>

Nothing has been done about it.
Is it any surprise that the oil companies have been making record profits since GW unstabilised the world oil market? The price goes thru the roof and they make even more money? Yeah, they are really worried about how much you pay for gas!!!!!!!!!!!
The Saudis arent complaining.
Since GW invaded Iraq they have got rid of a major threat [to their undemocratic repressive Kingdom - all paid for by the American taxpayer I might add!!] and their oil profits have jumped at least 30%!
You dont hear much in the press about OBL, oil in Iraq, the corrupt Iraqi Govt, the billions that have gone missing or the fact that he claimed 'success story' [ie Afgahnistan]is run by an ex American oil company exec !
Q

wolfdancer
03-02-2006, 08:16 AM
Q, does this make any sense at all to you?
[ QUOTE ]
How many times have we heard people on this board state we were there for oil? LOL, only to see gas prices sky rocket and not much done about it. <hr /></blockquote>
Did anybody really think we were over there for oil, and not for oil pofiteers, or "big oil"? Was any thinking person really surprised that oil companies now have record profits?
What kind of reasoning would be behind such a statement?....and then he also finds it amusing? I give up on this brain washed right wing cult follower.
I fear his mind is going...that's what happens to "cultists"
they lose the power of independant reasoning. Ed never contests with facts, anything written here that sheds further bad light on this totally corrupt, incompetent admin.
Instead, he tries to draw some camparision to Clinton's admin.......well Ed, if you happen to read this...clinton was the problem.....now GWB and the rest of the power brokers, bribe takers, war mongers, thieves, liars,that are enriching themselves, while impoverishing a great portion of Americans....they now "Iz" the poroblem.
Ed's fairtax fiasco is some rich republican's wet dream....it's unreaal that they would try to pass this off as "fair" Since XXX dollars is needed to run the country, all this fair crap does is shift more of the tax burdon to the lower income groups. A family below the poverty line now, and exempt from taxes, will find themselves taxed.
It's only fair to the people in high tax brackets, who already received a Bush admin huge tax cut.
It also will create a grey market, where items are traded ofr goods or labor....and will hurt the economy as people put off purchasing cars, appliances, rather then pay the huge sales tax....which of course would have to be increased to offset the lack of sales revenue.
What we have is an admin of liars.....I give Colin Powel credit for bailing out of this corrupt group.
The Republicans are against the Dems because they fear that their money will be redistributed to other Americans.....well, it's being redistributed to non americans, and bush is spending it faster then they earn it.
Ed reminds me of Inspector Javart, from Les Miz....who thought he was a moralistic man, and thought he was pursuing a criminal....in the end, when the **** hits the fan, ed will be also singing " what have I done, Sweet Jesus, what have I done?"
The once proud Republicn party has been taken over, mislead by this group of thugs, led by a President that took an oath to uphold the Constitution, but now claims it is only a piece of paper, and he is exempt from it. May they rot in hell for the poverty they are creating, for the lives lost, the lives ruined......
"Damn their warnings, damn their lies, they will see the people rise...." (Les Mis"

wolfdancer
03-02-2006, 08:53 AM
Steve, enlighten us....how is he standing up to them?
This war, in just one of the middle Eastern countries?
or are there additional plans to attack Iran, Pakistan,
Venezuala, who knows maybe even Grenada?
I don't think we can afford another war at this time,
which is why N. Korea, and Iran feel free to develope nuclear weapons.They must be laughing at this fool we have for our leader. Maybe China will lend us some more though, but ask for Fla and N.Cal as security deposits....????
while you guys fear the Dems for their alledged wealth distribution plans....the wealth is being redistributed, and you probably didn't get your expected fair share.....it went to the super rich, and will keep going to them

Gayle in MD
03-02-2006, 10:10 AM
You're right on, as usual. Steve is unable to enlighten since he refuses to acknowledge facts!

He and Ed are only interested in insulting people, lol. Now tell me, have you ever seen either one of them have their facts straight?

Fortunately, most in this country are seeing through the Bush/Republican lies and distraction tactics. Even the right is now turning against Bush.

How about his trip to Afghanistan, had to go in on a "Surprise" visit because the area is so unstable, yet he claims success there, LOL. Every past and present expert on foreign affairs, (Except for the Bush appointees, ofcourse) agrees that his policies have increased violence, and de-stablized the entire Middle East. He's doing this for his Saudi Arabian business partners. Bush and Cheney will be billionairs when this is all over with, and the poor in our country, will be back living on the streets. Bush has set this country back twenty years, in every way.

If you even mention an incident in the news, like the screaming Arabs on the streets, wishing Bush and all the rest of us death and destruction, you're accused of being one of them.

I am beginning to understand why Ed and Steve can't write a sentence without using the word hate .... it is symtomatic of insecure, unbalanced types who can't abide differing points of view. It's obvious, Bush is going down in flames, his many lies, and his lack of caring for the people in this country have become painfully obvious. Their posts are so full of poison and venom for anyone who critisizes their WH resident idiot, you have to wonder, how people who claim to be American, spring into attack mode when confronted with Americans who are exercising freedon of speech. I expect any day now to hear they are on TV screaming death to Democrats, LMAO!

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
03-02-2006, 10:30 AM
News? Here's some news for you, genius, from Kissenger, to Albright, to Clarke, to Powell, they all agree, Bush has increased violence, terrorism, instability, and the numbers of Middle Eastern enemies who hate America, and also, Bush, isn't standing up to anybody, our troops are doing that, while he sneaks in under top secret surprise cover, protected from the screaming Arabs who are killing our troops.

Speaking of turbans, you had better get out and shop for one, because we'll all soon be wearing them after Bush finishes selling America, we'll be wearing turbans and speaking spanish.

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
03-02-2006, 10:46 AM
Bush has made bin Laden very happy. This is exactly what he wanted, kaos in the Middle East, and the United States right in the middle of it, and Saddam gone. Bush has played right into his hands. When the Iranians start flooding into Iraq, and the **** really hits the fan, I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't STILL turn his back on our troops, and force them to stay right in the middle of it. Occupations never succeed in the midst of Civil War, in fact, occupations never succeed, period.

Gayle in Md.

pooltchr
03-02-2006, 11:02 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> Steve, enlighten us....how is he standing up to them?
<hr /></blockquote>

Let's see...OBL and his little band of merry terrorists are either hiding out in caves in Afghanistan or in custody or dead. The ones in cells over here have had their communication disrupted since the government is conducting those nasty little wiretaps. Quite a bit different from the freedom they had prior to the 2000 election, wouldn't you say???
Steve

wolfdancer
03-02-2006, 11:06 AM
Gayle, even his own father, spoke out against trying to invade and occupy Iraq. In GW's frantic Freudian attempt to compete with his dad, we are playing out the saga on the battlefields.
"A shadowy figure in the drama compared with Oedipus and Jocasta, King Laius( Oedipus's biological father) symbolizes patriarchs, priests, and PRESIDENTS who, frantically striving for immortality through masculine power, sacrifice their sons on ancient altars or modern battlefields for the everlasting glory of the clan or the Fatherland. The driving ideology holds out hope that, if you can propitiate the gods or kill the enemy who seeks your death, you can evade death itself."

wolfdancer
03-02-2006, 11:27 AM
I agree 100%
Unfortunately another unknown 1000 have taken their place....and the old saying is "better to know your enemy..."
However if you go to web page (http://www.strategypage.com/onpoint/articles/20030129.asp)
you'll find lots of support for your side of the arguement.

Gayle in MD
03-02-2006, 11:32 AM
Good One, very true. That and his secret deals with his Saudi Arabian Prince's....

Gayle in Md.

wolfdancer
03-02-2006, 12:11 PM
Wow!! I just read on Yahoo about a 2 yr old colt that sold for $16 mil.
I wonder what the horse's ess we got for President would be worth?

eg8r
03-02-2006, 12:18 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Our Constitution does not state "Empire Building, or Nation Building" as American goals. <hr /></blockquote> OMG, you are such a hypocrite. You want to stand behind the Constitution ONLY when it benefits you. You stating this makes me pretty sick after reading some posts from you a little while ago requesting the government spend money to build houses and condos for those displaced in NO. WHERE DOES IT STATE IN THE CONSTITUTION THAT THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD ONLY FOLLOW THE CONSTITUTION WHEN GAYLE DEEMS IT NECESSARY. CONDO BUILDING IS NOT IN THE CONSTITUTION EITHER, BUT YOU SURE DID NOT CARE ABOUT THAT WHEN YOU WERE RANTING IN PREVIOUS POSTS. Where does it stop. When will you hide behind the Constitution next?

At least you do not see me switching sides about the what the government should do in relation to the Constitution. I feel the Government should follow the Constitution in all decisions they make, not when they suit me which is surely in direct contrast to what you have said. While I agree with the quote above, hearing (figuratively speaking) it from your mouth is nothing more than trash. Noise. I am just waiting for #### to come pat your back.

eg8r

eg8r
03-02-2006, 12:20 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Speaking of turbans, you had better get out and shop for one, because we'll all soon be wearing them after Bush finishes selling America, we'll be wearing turbans and speaking spanish.
<hr /></blockquote> You cannot even keep your rants straight. Since when do the Chinese wear turbans and speak Spanish.

eg8r

eg8r
03-02-2006, 12:23 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Let's see...OBL and his little band of merry terrorists are either hiding out in caves in Afghanistan or in custody or dead. The ones in cells over here have had their communication disrupted since the government is conducting those nasty little wiretaps. Quite a bit different from the freedom they had prior to the 2000 election, wouldn't you say??? <hr /></blockquote> Hey, don't forget the torturous picture sessions with the naked human pyramid. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

eg8r
03-02-2006, 12:26 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Bush has made bin Laden very happy. <hr /></blockquote> Well, I am just sure OBL was giggling himself right off that rock when he heard Bush giving him credit for the election. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif LOL, you know nothing about the goings-on in OBL's head so quit acting like you do or regurgitating something you might have heard sometime while reading a book or watching C-SPAN. Newsflash...No one knows what OBL is thinking.

eg8r

eg8r
03-02-2006, 12:36 PM
[ QUOTE ]
You still have a large amount of people fighting a war who cant agree about what they are fighting for or why!
<hr /></blockquote> And we all know that the larger the number of people involved, the more confusion there will be. It is hard enough to get 5 people to agree on anything, let alone a few thousand.

[ QUOTE ]
Is it any surprise that the oil companies have been making record profits since GW unstabilised the world oil market? <hr /></blockquote> The oil companies would have made that money no matter who was in office, no matter what other crisis might have been caused. A little economics class might go a long way for you.

[ QUOTE ]
The Saudis arent complaining.
<hr /></blockquote> Why should they. Neither is OPEC.

[ QUOTE ]
You dont hear much in the press about OBL, oil in Iraq, the corrupt Iraqi Govt, the billions that have gone missing or the fact that he claimed 'success story' [ie Afgahnistan]is run by an ex American oil company exec !
<hr /></blockquote> All you have to do is pay attention. OBL is still in the news, heck he just had a new video come out a week ago. Oil is always in the news. You are right, I have not heard much about billions missing I guess that is old news. There is no reason to keep mentioning something just because it was news at one point in time. Thank God we don't hear much about Abu Grahib, how overrun are those news items. Who cares about an ex-American oil company exec. Do you know what "ex" means?

eg8r

eg8r
03-02-2006, 12:39 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Did anybody really think we were over there for oil, and not for oil pofiteers, or "big oil"? <hr /></blockquote> Talk about what makes sense. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif What a joke. Talk about being argumentative for the sake of arguing. You waste your time over this? It is nice to see you have taken Gayle's advice and instead of replying directly to me, you reply to me via someone else. This is the type of childish activity that happened in grade school when you did not want to ask out the girl in your class. You would ask their friends to ask them for you. Time for you to grow up.

eg8r

wolfdancer
03-02-2006, 04:12 PM
[ QUOTE ]
There is no reason to keep mentioning something just because it was news at one point in time. <hr /></blockquote>
Ed, you actually wrote this....you who keeps harping on the Clinton BJ?

wolfdancer
03-02-2006, 04:19 PM
That's weak Ed, not only weak but schoolboyish....but I've noticed your posts are losing any sense of direction lately.
I know the truth hurts, and you're finally beginning to see that you have been deceived....and you're at a loss for words

Gayle in MD
03-03-2006, 05:53 AM
Ain't it the truth. None of his arguements are pertinent, or even make any sense. That's why I don't debate with him.

Gayle in Md.

pooltchr
03-03-2006, 06:04 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Ain't it the truth. None of his arguements are pertinent, or even make any sense. That's why I don't debate with him.

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

Now it that isn't a case of the pot calling the kettle black, I don't know what is!!!!
Steve

eg8r
03-03-2006, 06:12 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Ed, you actually wrote this....you who keeps harping on the Clinton BJ? <hr /></blockquote> Yep, and although I am flattered that you put my thread/posts in the same category/arena of the mass media, I am not reticent to believe it was just another occurence of your inability to comprehend the subject being discussed. One of these days you will grow up and and think before you reply instead of just jumping up and down looking for a chance to be funny.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
03-03-2006, 06:16 AM
HA HA HA HA....You and the rest of the bushyites on here have become dangerously militant. It must be just awful to be a Bushyite these days.

BTW, what the hell does this post have to do with the poll numbers regarding our troops, and their feelings about this war, Mr. Farberware?

Gayle in Md.

eg8r
03-03-2006, 06:16 AM
[ QUOTE ]
That's weak Ed, not only weak but schoolboyish....but I've noticed your posts are losing any sense of direction lately. <hr /></blockquote> I guess after this whole time of struggling to stay above that level you have finally drug me down to your level. I just hope I can climb out of this hole before you beat me with experience.

eg8r

eg8r
03-03-2006, 06:18 AM
[ QUOTE ]
That's why I don't debate with him.
<hr /></blockquote> You don't debate with anyone. All you do is argue the others point is invalid and then use that same argument for yourself whenever you see fit. Like the ridiculous post in which you referred to the Constitution and what is does and does not say.

What you do do, is wait for someone else to reply to me and then you step in with your rant. This is the game you have been playing since your on again off again boycott of my posts.

eg8r

eg8r
03-03-2006, 06:23 AM
[ QUOTE ]
HA HA HA HA....You and the rest of the bushyites on here have become dangerously militant. It must be just awful to be a Bushyite these days.
<hr /></blockquote> HA HA HA HA....A bad day as a bushyite (whatever that is) is better than the best day as lib. So when are you going to get that campaign for President of yours started?

eg8r

DickLeonard
03-03-2006, 08:56 AM
Eg8r I just read the bottom of this post usually I avoid reading your posts once I have read a post I don't have to reread it over and over again. [Unlike Scooter Libby]The same with anyone who operates in the same fashion. Hear me Deeman.

This is Gayle's pat on the back[keep it up girl] the dawn is breaking.

I think Gayle is still waiting for your answer to my question Why aren't you serving your country in Iraq if you feel that GWB is doing the right thing. You should be there protecting the future for your offsprings less the liberal leftwingers sell it out.

The most successful recruitment plan for the New York State National Guard was a plan to receive a college education all one had to do was 2 weeks in the summer and one night a week training.

The National Guard was a stay at home unit to protect in case of natural disasters etc never to go to War. Now you have your degree and your fullfilling your obligation and the BooB activates your unit to go to War, a job which no guardsman is trained to do.

Then instead of releasing you after you have served there they keep extending your tour of Duty. I would love to know the body count of those who traded their live for a college degree. While others write supporting the Boob but not willing to put their money where their mouth is.####

pooltchr
03-03-2006, 10:39 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> The most successful recruitment plan for the New York State National Guard was a plan to receive a college education all one had to do was 2 weeks in the summer and one night a week training. <hr /></blockquote>

So for working 64 days a year for the government, you get a free college education...no strings attached...no contract to do what might be needed in the future. Just put in your time and get your education.
I think that might be good incentive for joining...but anyone with any sense at all knows that the National Guard is often called upon for military service. When you sign up, you take your chances.
Steve

DickLeonard
03-03-2006, 12:12 PM
pooltchr the National guard wasn't used in Viet Nam why would it ever be used again. Maybe it was used in Nam unless your name was Bush.####

wolfdancer
03-03-2006, 12:30 PM
Dick, you don't mean that guy with the Napolean complex?

pooltchr
03-03-2006, 01:49 PM
Dick, I'm sorry, but I don't care who you are, if you sign up, you do so with the understanding that you may get orders for just about anything. Once you sign that paper, you belong to the government. It's that simple. They can do what they want with you.
Anyone who signed up for no other reason than the education who is in combat does not get any sympathy from me. When I signed up, they sent me wherever they wanted and told me to do whatever they wanted done. Sometimes, life's a BI***!
Steve

Gayle in MD
03-04-2006, 09:23 AM
Dick,
The sin committed in all this is that our troops, and all the rest of us, were lied to. Bush treats our troops the same way he treats the rest of the middle class, they don't exist in his mind, nor do the old or the poor, hence Katrina, and his Prescription drug plan, and also these troops have been through more re-deployments than any in our history. Grorge Bush will never re-instate the draft, because then rich republicans just might have to go over there and fight, that would be totally unacceptable to the King and his court. Only the worker bees, who will come home to no jobs, must give their lives. Bush is exporting America right straight into the trash dumpster. But the wealthy Arabs, and the wealthy Indians, and the wealthy oilmen this country, love him.

Here is Bush's policy in a nut shell....
F**k the Constitution, F**K the laws, F**K National Security,
F**K the poor, F**K the middle class, F**K the old and ill, and F**k the future.

Gayle in Md......only idiots could support this president!

9 Ball Girl
03-04-2006, 10:27 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Here is Bush's policy in a nut shell....
F**k the Constitution, F**K the laws, F**K National Security,
F**K the poor, F**K the middle class, F**K the old and ill, and F**k the future.

Gayle in Md......only idiots could support this president! <hr /></blockquote>Well, here's a F**King video of Bush released by the AP where Bushie contradicts himself for his now infamous claim of "I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees..."

Finally! Video Proof That The Dude Is A Liar! (http://www.democrats.org/katrinavideo)

Oh, and while it lasts, go to Google and do an I Feel Lucky Search on the word A**hole (replace the ** with ss)

Gayle in MD
03-05-2006, 06:14 AM
Reminisent of Condi's lies in front of the 9/11 investigations....

"Before 9/11, nobody had imagined people flying airplanes into buildings."

Just another documented lie. No wonder Bush did everything he could do to block the 9/11 investigations, and Republicans have done everything they could do since, to prevent part two of the investigations. What are they hiding? Many of the answers are in the books written by axed CIA and FBI agents. Gross negligence by this administration is exactly how bL managed to pull it off, even after his public statement that there would be an attack of massive consequences, that would change the world, and intelligence that planes would be used, which led to agents practically jumping on tables trying to get Bush and Cheney off the subject of Iraq, and focussed on the coming attack.

Both circumstances have now re-emerged, and exist at this moment, bL forwarning of another huge attack, Bush still sidelined from our safety, and fighting the wrong war in the wrong place at the wrong time. Great time to put in place a foreign Government owned Company with ties to bin Laden, Terrorism, and the Militant Muslim Community in our ports, the most likely avenue for Nuclear Weapons into the United States.

Here's the questions of the day? Who are the Scientists responsible for snaching Bush's drunken body from his dorm room, and replacing it with a Militant Muslim Clone????

Off to google...thanks Wendy /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

pooltchr
03-05-2006, 06:26 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Many of the answers are in the books written by axed CIA and FBI agents. <hr /></blockquote>

Once again, you fail to provide specifics. Who wrote what books? Do you think the fact that these agents were fired might have an impact on how they view things? Is it possible they are bitter ex employees? Could they be writing something controversial just to get published and make some money?

You are very quick to question everything the Bush admininstration says or does. How can you latch on to everything anyone says against them without even considering the possibility that there may be some ulterior motives involved?

You claim to be well read and somewhat educated, yet you seem to find things that agree with your point of view and immediately assume they are accurate.

I'm not saying your information is right or wrong....just wondering how you KNOW it is correct?????

Steve

Gayle in MD
03-05-2006, 07:09 AM
I know because revelations since I read those books have documented everything written in them. Now, the question I have for you is, How many of them have YOU read? I have already posted lists of books, and book reccommendations. You are so up on everything that you referred to Richard Clarke as someone who wanted to run for president, in another thread, and Richard Clarke never tried to run for president. Wesly Clark tried to run for president. Richard Clarke was this countries fore most expert on B Laden, alQaeda, and the militant muslim world. If you would get your information somewhere other than faux news, you would know these things.

Gayle in Md.

Qtec
03-05-2006, 07:46 AM
Steve, you dont have to be a rocke scietist to know that the statement"- "Before 9/11, nobody had imagined people flying airplanes into buildings."- is complete and utter BS.
There are alot of unanswered questions about 9/11.

Q
For starters, why would suspected terrorists take flying lessons?


Also.

http://www.boston.com/news/packages/sept11/anniversary/wire_stories/0903_plane_exercise.htm

Agency planned exercise on Sept. 11 built around a plane crashing into a building
By John J. Lumpkin, Associated Press

WASHINGTON — In what the government describes as a bizarre coincidence, one U.S. intelligence agency was planning an exercise last Sept. 11 in which an errant aircraft would crash into one of its buildings. But the cause wasn't terrorism -- it was to be a simulated accident.

Officials at the Chantilly, Va.-based National Reconnaissance Office had scheduled an exercise that morning in which a small corporate jet would crash into one of the four towers at the agency's headquarters building after experiencing a mechanical failure.

The agency is about four miles from the runways of Washington Dulles International Airport.




http://www.oilempire.us/wargames.html


Transcript of Representative Cynthia McKinney's Exchange with Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Richard Myers, and Under Secretary of Defense (Comptroller) Tina Jonas, March 11th, 2005

Sec. of Defense Rumsfeld in House Hearing on FY06 Dept. of Defense Budget
Chairman Representative Duncan Hunter (R-CA) and witnesses Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and JCS Chairman General Richard Myers hold a House Hearing on the FY 2006 Budget for the Department of Defense and Military Services.

3/11/2005: WASHINGTON, DC: 2 hr. 5 min.

CMK: Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney (D-GA)
DR: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld
RM: Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Richard Myers
TJ: Under Secretary of Defense (Comptroller) Tina Jonas
DH: Chairman Representative Duncan Hunter (R-CA)



CMK: The question was, we had four wargames going on on September 11th, and the question that I tried to pose before the Secretary had to go to lunch was whether or not the activities of the four wargames going on on September 11th actually impaired our ability to respond to the attacks.

RM: The answer to the question is no, it did not impair our response, in fact General Eberhart who was in the command of the North American Aerospace Defense Command as he testified in front of the 9/11 Commission I believe - I believe he told them that it enhanced our ability to respond, given that NORAD didn't have the overall responsibility for responding to the attacks that day. That was an FAA responsibility. But they were two CPXs; there was one Department of Justice exercise that didn't have anything to do with the other three; and there was an actual operation ongoing because there was some Russian bomber activity up near Alaska. So we -

CMK: Let me ask you this, then: who was in charge of managing those wargames?

DH: General, why don't you give the best answer that you can here in a short a period of time and we'll - the gentlelady wants to get a written answer anyway, and then we can move on to other folks.

RM: The important thing to realize is that North American Aerospace Defense Command was responsible. These are command post exercises; what that means is that all the battle positions that are normally not filled are indeed filled; so it was an easy transition from an exercise into a real world situation. It actually enhanced the response; otherwise, it would take somewhere between 30 minutes and a couple of hours to fill those positions, those battle stations, with the right staff officers.

CMK: Mr. Chairman, begging your indulgence, was September Eleventh declared a National Security Special Event day?

RM: I have to look back; I do not know. Do you mean after the fact, or

CMK: No. Because of the activities going on that had been scheduled at the United Nations that day.

RM: I'd have to go back and check. I don't know

pooltchr
03-05-2006, 07:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> You are so up on everything that you referred to Richard Clarke as someone who wanted to run for president, in another thread, and Richard Clarke never tried to run for president. Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

Once again, you are mistaken. I would love for you to point out where I ever made that statement. Get your facts straight before you post!
Steve

Sid_Vicious
03-05-2006, 08:37 AM
"Here's the questions of the day? Who are the Scientists responsible for snaching Bush's drunken body from his dorm room, and replacing it with a Militant Muslim Clone????"

Codenames, Tarzan and Jane! sid

Snapshot9
03-05-2006, 05:22 PM
Been there, done that - 3 tours of Viet Nam.
Politicians should never fight wars - Let the generals handle it. There is torture that exist in every war ever fought, get over it, everyone doesn't play by 'your' rules just because you say their are rules. I used to have an 8th grade English teacher that liked to tell how he killed North Koreans in the Korean conflict, and put their skulls on sticks outside his tent. While I agree, mostly, with GW convictions, I do not necessarily agree with his priorities and methods lately.

The USA has got to stop trying to be 'The great benefactor' to the rest of the world. We need to take care of our country
FIRST, AND OUR PEOPLE, with limited government intervention.

National Security is first. Letting the UAE have control of our ports is one of the stupidest things I have heard of. Most of the initial money for terrorists groups has originated from somewhere within Saudia Arabia.

There are just too many stupid things to list entirely:
1) Nafta
2) Cafta
3) Letting illegal immigrants stay in our country, and considering their kids Americans, and giving them benefits
usually only given to REAl Americans.
4) Letting Pharmeceutical companies get away with 1,000's of percent of profit at the expense of the average American trying to pay for medical coverage.
5) Raising gas prices when oil companies are recording record profit years.
6) Letting companies 'throw' away employess because they are over 40 and more than 10 years service.

I could go on and on, but I won't. Why doesn't GW assign
up to 10 special ops units (8-12 men) to find, capture, or kill Bin Laden, and guarantee them a good pension for life
if they complete the mission. Bet Bin laden would be dead in
3 months.

As we use up the earth and its resources, there will be more and more wars, and it will not be a matter of doing the right thing as it will be 'survival of the fitest'. And those that think we have it bad so go visit other countries in the world, especially you women. America treats its women FAR better than they are treated in other countries. Be thankful for what you have, live day by day, and always keep trying to make our country better.

Gayle in MD
03-06-2006, 07:16 AM
Bravo ! You make many excellent points. Every single President that has been in office since we stood in the oil lines of the seventies has failed America, both Republican, and Democrat. Americans are resourcful, creative, progressive and inventive, there is absolutely no reason why we couldn't be sitting here in a peaceful, rich and free Democracy, removed from the war producing effects of overpopulation of the world, and the resulting requirements for pollution inducing, fossil fuels.

If not for Corporate greed, and corrupt politicians, bought and paid for with Corporate money, we could have been free of fossil fuels long ago, the world would be a safer, healthier place in which to live. The devastating effects of industry on our environment, would be a thing of the past. The numbers who die and suffer from cancer, and other devastating diseases, would be greatly reduced. The world would be a healthier place to live.

The most important issues which threaten the world, are the result of dependency on fossil fuel, overpopulation, and ignorant, religious dictatorial dogma, which seeks to repress science, progress, and the understanding and acceptance of multi-cultural religious philosophy.

Thank you for your service to our country. Many here do not understand the difference between comdemnation of War, and respect and appreciation for those who serve their country. It seems to be a result of the "Either/Or pseudo philosophy of the current administration, and the number of Americans who form their opinions according to broadcast news, and the quest for religious dictatorship, rather than reading enough factual material to form educated opinions regarding our circumstances.
Gayle in Md.

eg8r
03-06-2006, 07:22 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I think Gayle is still waiting for your answer to my question Why aren't you serving your country in Iraq if you feel that GWB is doing the right thing. You should be there protecting the future for your offsprings less the liberal leftwingers sell it out.
<hr /></blockquote> Well, then Gayle is not as intelligent as she thought. First off, aren't you a big boy? Shouldn't you be asking me why I did not answer your questions? Instead you send in the dogs? I answered the question, I said I would be signing up just as soon as she ran for President. Maybe you would try reading before making ridiculous statements, at least you look less foolish.

eg8r

Fran Crimi
03-06-2006, 07:42 AM
Just curious as to why you served 3 tours in Viet Nam. Was that a choice you made or was that something that was required?

Fran

wolfdancer
03-06-2006, 12:05 PM
Geez dick, I thought you would have had it figured out by now.
They are behind the (War)President's decision to invade Iraq, 100% ********************************
It's just that they don't want to get personally involved.

pooltchr
03-06-2006, 02:41 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> You are so up on everything that you referred to Richard Clarke as someone who wanted to run for president, in another thread, and Richard Clarke never tried to run for president. Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

Once again, you are mistaken. I would love for you to point out where I ever made that statement. Get your facts straight before you post!
Steve <hr /></blockquote>

Still waiting for Gayle's response
Steve

Gayle in MD
03-07-2006, 06:30 AM
When you answer my "STILL WAITING" post, from your tribute to George Bush's great handling of the economy, maybe I'll consider dragging it up from the archives,... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

pooltchr
03-07-2006, 11:26 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> When you answer my "STILL WAITING" post, from your tribute to George Bush's great handling of the economy, maybe I'll consider dragging it up from the archives,... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif <hr /></blockquote>

In other words, you got caught making sh*t up, and don't want to discuss it. Fine, Don't bother. You and I both know you can't find it because I never posted it!