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PlynSets
03-08-2006, 12:12 PM
It looks as though I may have scored a gold crown III this morning, But I have a couple of questions for somebody that's very familiar with the tables..

The first question is going to sound like a dumb question, but I'm a player not a table mechanic and I don't keep a tape measure on me soooo... LOL

Question # 1, I know the gold crowns came in 9', 8.5, and 8'.. not sure about the 7's. The person I'm buying the table from is a little over an hour from me so it's not like I can just run up and look at it. They sent me some pictures (which I have, but am not sure how to post?) and it sure looks like a 9' table. I realize the playing area is suppose to be 4.5 x 9. Where would they take that measurement from to verify that it is a 9' instead of an 8.5' table? Is it from the inside of the rails that add up to 4.5 x 9? Or are the rails considered part of the playing surface so that the measurment would actually be from where the rail meets the top of the apron?

Secondly, I had a gold crown 1 years ago, and for some reason I was under the impression that gold crown 1's and 2's came with chrome veneers around the pockets. While the 3's only came in Bronze. This table that I'm looking at (if that was to hold true) would have to be a hybrid of a II and a III or something. It's got a rosewood top, chrome pockets, the aluminum rail all the way around, but then where the ball storage is it's bronze, and the rest of the table appears to be that mohagany finish of a III? Table does have ball return, and it looks as if the catch for the balls is about an inch out further then it should be? (any ideas?)

DJ

tjlmbklr
03-08-2006, 12:32 PM
Measure inside the rail(edge of cushion) to the opposite side. 88"x44" for standard 8ft'r 92x46 for oversized or pro-8ftr 96x48 for 9ftr. Hope this helps.

BigRigTom
03-08-2006, 12:53 PM
Those dims are almost correct.....
A GCIII 9' should measure 50" x 100"

You can get the info straight from the horse's mount at Brunswick.
Click this link Brunswick Table Room Requirements (http://www.brunswickbilliards.com/need_information/room_size_requirements.html)
I had some of these same questions once and was amazed at how many diffent answers I got from people who were supposed to know.
Be careful and consider the source is all I can say.
Hope you enjoy the Gold Crown and wish I had the room for one....I envy you.

tjlmbklr
03-08-2006, 01:40 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Those dims are almost correct.....
A GCIII 9' should measure 50" x 100"

<hr /></blockquote>


Opps, you're right!

PlynSets
03-08-2006, 03:26 PM
Well I thought I had stumbled upon the deal of a lifetime so I was going to jump on it.. I've been looking for a gold crown and have been fairly unsuccesfull at finding one even remotely reasonably priced. The only way to go apparently is private party on something like that becuase everyone marks them up ridiculously.

So the story goes (if your interested) I asked my buddy Jim (owner of the local pool hall I frequent) what he thinks I should do. He told me about once every two months somebody will have a table for sale in the penny saver and to just call all of them and as luck would have it you once in a great while stumble upon somebody that just happens to have one, doesn't know what it is, has no interest in the game and just wants to get rid of it. How they come across these things is beyond me.. Divorce maybe or something? So I've been calling on tables, ran across this one and had the lady describe it to me over the phone. Her description was it's made of "wood" so I'm thinking not a gold crown.. Then she tells me it has chrome around the pockets.. Possibly gold crown or medalist. (Hoping for gold crown) After some hemming and hawing on her part she figures out how to take some pictures and e-mails them to me. It's a gold crown alright, so I'm stoked! She tells me the price is 1000.00 dollars for the table. (Read back to the part of somebody has something but has no idea what it is or what it's worth and just wants it gone) so I tell her, I'm very interested and if she could take some measurements it'd be great. She disregarded what I told her to measure and told me the outside of the table is approximately 10'. So I'm thinking 9' gold crown III for a 1000.00 bucks. Can't beat that with a stick. Sent the picture to my table mechanic (which this guy is arguably one of the best guys in California from his reputation) He tells me it's kind of a hybrid table. Looks like a Gold Crown II top, with Gold Crown III apron? Most likely a III with a II top anyways. Table has ball return. The only thing that didn't really sit well with me is the ball return looked like it was sticking an inch or two out further then it should've. Turns out the table is an "oversized 8" or 8.5 by 4 1/4. This table is strictly for practice, and late night sets after the pool halls shut down locally, so I'm looking for a full size table that I'm going to have reworked (not shimmed, but new rails cut long) so that the pockets are tighter then ____________ insert metaphor here.. Personally I would've said virgin mary but I don't want to offend being a newbie to the board. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I explained to her that the "hybrid" action hurts the resale a little, (which is certainly arguable both ways becuase it shouldn't that much, but I just didn't want the table) and that she should advertise it as a GC III oversized 8. She needs to get it out of this house becuase they sold the house and are running out of time, and I expect she'll be fire selling it for 750.00 - 500.00 bucks if anyone is interested in a really nice 8.5 table in the north san diego area. To me I'll keep saving my nickels and dimes (even though I think that's an unbelievable deal) becuase I'm the kinda guy that'd rather pay 10 times more for something I want then less for something I'm going to never be fully happy with..

Till the next one comes along..

DJ

Bob_Jewett
03-08-2006, 03:58 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BigRigTom:</font><hr> Those dims are almost correct.....
A GCIII 9' should measure 50" x 100"

You can get the info straight from the horse's mount at Brunswick.
Click this link Brunswick Table Room Requirements (http://www.brunswickbilliards.com/need_information/room_size_requirements.html)
I had some of these same questions once and was amazed at how many diffent answers I got from people who were supposed to know.
Be careful and consider the source is all I can say.
Hope you enjoy the Gold Crown and wish I had the room for one....I envy you. <hr /></blockquote>
All 4.5x9-foot tables have playing surfaces of 50x100 inches, not just GCs.

The room requirements listed on the Brunswick site are absolute minimums for people who don't like to be comfortable. No pool player I know would be happy that cramped. The sizes listed are for NO BACKSTROKE!!! If you want a better discussion of the size of room needed for tables, see the RSB FAQ at http://www.sfbilliards.com/faq.html

For the original poster: be sure to test the cushions before you agree to buy the table, or be prepared to replace the rubber.

PlynSets
03-08-2006, 04:13 PM
Damn, I feel like I just met a celebrity! LOL I've been teaching my g/f how to play for a few months now and I bought a Robert Byrnes standard book of pool, and the advanced book as well. I'm assuming this is the same Bob Jewett (technical advisor) for those books? I can't tell you how refreshing it is to have an actual engineering orientated perspective with regards to alot of the questions that arise with the physics and angles of the game. While I'm not an engineer I grew up in the back of an engineering firm, and have been a machinist for most of my life. Turned sales rep for rapid prototyping awhile back so I still stick pretty close to the mechanical engineering field all n all. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif Great work by the way!!

Incidentally, I have some technical discussion with regards to the tables if your interested.

In shopping for my home (practice table) I went to several different pool halls, and some I really liked playing at while others I dunno.. just kind of rubbed me the wrong way. (talking strictly with regards to the playabillity of the tables)

It wasn't until I got intoa discussion with a friend of mine about how tight I wanted my pockets that I looked down and noticed a major difference between some places.. Even with the same tables.

Hard Times (Bellflower) and other "players" pool halls are setting up there tables a little differently then everywhere else, by which they are taking the rubber off the tables. Ordering new rubber leaving the rubber long, and then cutting it so that the facings on the pockets are parrallel to each other (or damn near it). While factory gold crowns and others, typiclly have larger pockets at the mouth and then get smaller towards the inner of the pocket. They usually come oversized (slightly over two ball widths) and then they add facings to size them.

The result between the two is one is a much tighter pocket that much be hit with precision but rejects less balls (parallel facings). The other where by the facings are just shimmed and have a "fanning out" angle reject all kinds of balls even if you hit them and I use this term loosely here "good." Even though I read in Roberts book that it's impossible to put enough english on the object ball to affect whether or not they go in the pockets off the facings.. I'm almost disinclined to agree with it after seeing some shots go in, or out with no difference in attack angle, but difference on whether inside or outside english was used? (again slower shots here more then blasting them)

I'm going to have my table setup the way hardtimes is setup.. Point in fact the same guy that sets up Hard times tables is the guy doing it, so regardless of which table I buy the rubber is pretty much going in the trash. (Point # 2, instead of shimming the rubber behind, I've heard they fill the small gaps with "puddy" to give a nice even pressure all the way across the backside of the rail, I've yet to verify that, but it certainly does seem that tables setup with that configuration play with alot more precision off the rails and alot less "feel" so I'm inclined to believe it)

The technical conversation point that comes in, is anybody that has played on those tables (higher end players especially) like them considerably more then "normal" tables. Has there been any looking into of these different ways of setting them up? Literature? Or writings in the future about the benefits and cons of having one vs the other? As well as which will be "standard" in the future for the pro tours etc. etc..

DJ

Bob_Jewett
03-08-2006, 05:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote PlynSets:</font><hr> ...
The technical conversation point that comes in, is anybody that has played on those tables (higher end players especially) like them considerably more then "normal" tables. Has there been any looking into of these different ways of setting them up? Literature? Or writings in the future about the benefits and cons of having one vs the other? As well as which will be "standard" in the future for the pro tours etc. etc.. <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks for the other comments.

Does Ernesto do the tables at HT?

My own feeling is that the speed of the shot should not affect the size of the pocket. Tapering the pocket openings (as has been done since the GC1?) is evil, in my view. The standard table specifications require a taper, however. The taper at the last US Open had players howling in pain and disbelief (so I'm told), partly due to the humidity which makes things worse.

I doubt that either Brunswick or Diamond plan to change their pocket openings much in the near future.

PlynSets
03-08-2006, 05:12 PM
I'm not sure if he's still doing them or not? Ernesto is one of the guys that is lengthening the rails and adding a more straight cut pocket though, from my understanding.

DJ

Cueless Joey
03-08-2006, 08:45 PM
[ QUOTE ]
hanks for the other comments.

Does Ernesto do the tables at HT?
<hr /></blockquote>
No, Steve does now.
Ernesto still does Hollywood Billiards though.

PlynSets
03-10-2006, 04:45 PM
Incidentally that lady is down to about 750 bucks on her table if anyone is interested. 8.5 gold crown III with ball return. I don't want it as I'm looking for a 9'er, but I think it's a pretty good deal for somebody else. Table is in good shape.

DJ