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Sid_Vicious
03-26-2006, 09:47 AM
Anyone who has wagered much on pool has surely noticed that by day's end the bet escalates greatly during heavy competition. My question is, what's the obligation upon the next day's battle after winning a sizable piece of cash? Say that you agree to playing for 3X the usual bet one day for the finishing set, and win that 3X amount quitting as agreed previously. Should someone be expected to begin the next day's wagering for the 3X, or is it proper etiquete to revert back to the 1X amount? I don't mind giving someone a chance to get some of their money back but I guess I don't want to be "too nice."

How do you answer an opponent wishing to jump right into the last set's amount???sid

Btw, a readjustment on weight has already been parlay'd for next time, so do me a favor don't think I'm wishing to rape the fish

jtlabs
03-26-2006, 11:14 AM
I do not no much about pool hall etiquette but after a bet is made neither party should be obligated to do anything after that bet is done and over with. That's the way I see it. Now if your trying to keep the guy on a string with the intention for him to keep playing you, then things get complicated.

Regards,
Jay

ceebee
03-26-2006, 05:42 PM
... sounds like your match session is over, but you have a residual weight adjustment for the next match. I would not feel any commitment was in place, for a starting point. However, what I would do is maybe not what you would do or will do. Good Luck..

cueball1950
03-26-2006, 09:31 PM
Hi Sid... in my own humble opinion and from what i have seen during my 40 some years of hanging out in pol hals is that what happened yesterday has no effect on today. i have seen on many occasions PLAYER A beating PLAYER B for 1000 bananas and ending that day at 500 bananas a set after starting out at 100 bananas. The next day PLAYER B wants PLAYER A to start off at 500 bananas a set and PLAYER A tells PLAYER B that he will only start out at 200 bananas a set. PLAYER A figures that he is not going to let the other player get it all back so quickly and just refuses to play so large in the beginning of the 2nd day. PLAYER A feels that PLAYER B should play for the lower stakes on day 2....sounds rasonable to me. It happens alot. what you did 1 day should have no bearing on what you do the next.....JMHO.......mike

Snapshot9
03-27-2006, 05:41 AM
The above comments are correct in logic, just as what you spot someone 1 particular day may not be what you will spot them
on another day (but try to convince the player getting the spot that). Players sometimes spot big when they get someones nose open a little, just to try and take them off, but overspotting
a player can come back to bite you in the butt when they want that same big spot all the time since you beat them once at it, and no player I know can ALWAYS outrun the BIG spot.

PoolSharkAllen
03-27-2006, 08:29 AM
Do most gamblers really care about etiquette? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

sidepocketsam
03-27-2006, 09:27 AM
I don't believe there's any etiquette involved here other than starting at the same level you began the previous session. I would tell the opposing player that you have your own routine, your own way of doing things and that the amount your started gambling at yesterday is the amount you always feel comfortable starting at. You make it a rule never to start at another level except under unique circumstances that don't apply at the moment.

Also, tell the opposing player that you start out each session with a set amount in your pocket and that's what you have on you(no need to tell the player that amount, it's not his/her business).

hustlefinger
03-27-2006, 09:44 AM
Firstly, itís not their money anymore, itís yours. Secondly, you shouldnít feel obligated to play for the last amount or even the last spot. New day = new negotiations.

IMO.

Rick

McKinneyMiner
03-27-2006, 12:40 PM
As an ancillary discussion to this topic, how about this one...

Is it okay to quit ahead, or should you feel obligated to make the other player quit you?

About 9 years ago at Rusty's in Arlington I played a guy on the front table giving him the last 2. After about 4 hours I was ahead $500 or so and he went off to find another backer.

He came back about 10 minutes later, we upped the bet (but not the spot) and continued on.

After about 10 hours I was ahead $1200 or so. I had the guy's nose wide open and I began giving him the wild 8 with him and a new backer.

Long story short after 28 hours I am ahead $2900. He is out of backers, but says he wants to take a 2 hour break so he can go get more money. For the only time in my life I quit winner. I told the guy I was done for this session and I would play him again on another night.

Well, in the parking lot he pulled a gun on me (but didn't have the balls to do anything more) and the result was I quit playing pool until this year.

I have always wondered if I did the right thing quitting. He was constantly going to the bathroom to take pills which is why after so long I wasn't more ahead and finally I got sick of it and quit.

What is the protocol (for lack of a better word) for quitting ahead?

Sid_Vicious
03-27-2006, 01:39 PM
Did he get your cash in the parking lot? As far as quitting ahead, I'd have said as long an announced quitting time, or "I'll give you 3 more sets, etc", but I was told the other day that this time annoucement should be made in the beginning, so I'm not sure today about your particular situation. I'd personally choose not to play people I really don't know, and even quit some of the friends/PPlayers I know fairly well, after a bad episode like yours. I have made the recent decision just today to NOT play this one guy anymore whom I've considered a friend over the years. I'd rather retain a friendship than get his cash. Besides, he is making playing for "something" no fun. Jm2c...sid

cueball1950
03-27-2006, 01:44 PM
I personally feel that a player can quit anytime. Winning or losing. I have quit a winner and also quit a loser. And to answer someone elses question, pool players (large gamblers that i have seen) don't give 2 shoots about ettiquite.......mike

PoolSharkAllen
03-27-2006, 01:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote McKinneyMiner:</font><hr> What is the protocol (for lack of a better word) for quitting ahead? <hr /></blockquote>

To combine gambling with pious words like "protocols" or "etiquette" is something of an oxymoron. I don't gamble because there's no way to know if someone is going to try to get revenge for losing.

McKinneyMiner
03-27-2006, 01:50 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> Did he get your cash in the parking lot? <hr /></blockquote>

Sid...

It was one of the most bizarre experiences of my life. I walked out to the parking lot and he was there saying I had to keep playing. I told him no.

He pulled the gun and said something snappy like, "Well how about this?" I remember telling him that if he wanted the money he was going to have to kill me in that parking lot and I walked to my car.

I met up with my road partner, gave him his half and told him I was done. I quit cold turkey for 9 years.

McKinneyMiner
03-27-2006, 01:55 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote PoolSharkAllen:</font><hr>To combine gambling with pious words like "protocols" or "etiquette" is something of an oxymoron. I don't gamble because there's no way to know if someone is going to try to get revenge for losing. <hr /></blockquote>

Allen...

I agree with you. I enjoyed playing pool for money. I liked the pressure, the thrill, etc. I never liked it when things got out of hand, which they often did.

So I quit. The gambling life had completely sucked dry any love I had for playing.

Now I am just starting to play leagues and local tournaments and am enjoying playing again.

Inevitably I will be asked to gamble somtime and I'll just have to see how I feel about that when the time comes.

OldieToo
03-27-2006, 03:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote McKinneyMiner:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> Did he get your cash in the parking lot? <hr /></blockquote>

Sid...

It was one of the most bizarre experiences of my life. I walked out to the parking lot and he was there saying I had to keep playing. I told him no.

He pulled the gun and said something snappy like, "Well how about this?" I remember telling him that if he wanted the money he was going to have to kill me in that parking lot and I walked to my car.

I met up with my road partner, gave him his half and told him I was done. I quit cold turkey for 9 years. <hr /></blockquote>I had the same situation at Shooters in Waco severals years ago. I went with the guy to his cars so he could "get the rest of the money". (let's not all laugh at once...hahaha) He then pulled a .357 on me and I bolted for the poolroom door. Got the bouncer and before he could get his car started, the bouncer had a sawed-off aimed at the guy. I got the guys .357 as the balance of what was owed to me....it wasn't even loaded. (now even more laughter) /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Lester
03-27-2006, 04:05 PM
SidVicious wrote:Btw, a readjustment on weight has already been parlay'd for next time, so do me a favor don't think I'm wishing to rape the fish


Just like the weight was parlayed, so too goes the wager. It is a different game, and a feeling out period is in order. At least to me.

Rich R.
03-27-2006, 07:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote McKinneyMiner:</font><hr> The gambling life had completely sucked dry any love I had for playing.<hr /></blockquote>
I have to agree with this statement.
IMHO, playing for cash makes pool too much like a job and it takes a lot of the fun out of playing the game.
After a 30+ year lay off, I decided not to gamble when I started playing again. I enjoy the game more than ever.

Now, I know this may not be the same for everyone and I don't have anything against those who gamble. It is just not for me, at this time.

I believe some people who can't play pool without a wager, like to gamble more than they like to play pool. JMHO.

PoolSharkAllen
03-27-2006, 11:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote McKinneyMiner:</font><hr> The gambling life had completely sucked dry any love I had for playing.<hr /></blockquote>
I have to agree with this statement.
IMHO, playing for cash makes pool too much like a job and it takes a lot of the fun out of playing the game.
I believe some people who can't play pool without a wager, like to gamble more than they like to play pool. JMHO. <hr /></blockquote>

I suppose that gambling for a small amount of money might be "fun." However, when someone is out $2900 or whatever the sizable amount might be, in my opinion, the element of fun is gone. Now the person who's losing money is desperately trying to recover his loses. At this point, this is compulsive gambling.

TimFXF
03-28-2006, 12:22 AM
I'm new to the game, but I'd like to go to a pool hall to play a big table (I have a 7 foot Olhausen). The one thing that I don't want to do is play for money. Having never been to a pool hall, what's the best/nicest way to get into a game without having to wager anything more than a beer?

I've been playing billiards for a couple of months, but I've also played golf for 25 years, so I know that the sharks swim near shore looking for suckers like me.

Rich R.
03-28-2006, 03:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TimFXF:</font><hr> I'm new to the game, but I'd like to go to a pool hall to play a big table (I have a 7 foot Olhausen). The one thing that I don't want to do is play for money. Having never been to a pool hall, what's the best/nicest way to get into a game without having to wager anything more than a beer?<hr /></blockquote>
Simply ask another player if they would like to play. If they bring up the matter of a bet, just say that you do not gamble. If they don't want to play, without gambling, ask someone else.

Don't make a big thing out of the fact that you don't gamble. Just make the statement and see what the other player does. There are a lot of players out there that don't necessarily want to gamble all of the time. You just have to find them.

Sid_Vicious
03-28-2006, 06:51 AM
Good analogy Lester. Thanks...sid

Vagabond
03-29-2006, 09:35 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> My question is, what's the obligation upon the next day's battle after winning a sizable piece of cash? <hr /></blockquote>
Hi Sid,
I know what u are saying.You are talking about `unwritten code of conduct` among the gambling pool players like among the murderers,rapists,burglars,petty thieves.When one does not stick to this unwritten code of conduct one will be ostracized by the others of that trade.
Sid, things have changed a lot because of different breed of people joined the subculture of pool.These new breed do not follow the unwritten code of conduct.I for example do not follow that code.I believe in negotiating money matters before each set/session.Each time it is a new begining.Second set I may duble it and the third set I may play only for half the amount wagered on the first set.I do what I like to do and I do not try to please my opponent.If my opponent does not agree then I unscrew my cue and sit in the side lines.I do not respond to the woofing by my opponent.If he asks me to come to the parking lot I tell him to fight me in the pool room. /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

PoolSharkAllen
03-29-2006, 10:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Vagabond:</font><hr>
Hi Sid,
I know what u are saying.You are talking about `unwritten code of conduct` among the gambling pool players like among the murderers,rapists,burglars,petty thieves.When one does not stick to this unwritten code of conduct one will be ostracized by the others of that trade.
Sid, things have changed a lot because of different breed of people joined the subculture of pool.These new breed do not follow the unwritten code of conduct.I for example do not follow that code.I believe in negotiating money matters before each set/session.Each time it is a new begining.Second set I may duble it and the third set I may play only for half the amount wagered on the first set.I do what I like to do and I do not try to please my opponent.If my opponent does not agree then I unscrew my cue and sit in the side lines.I do not respond to the woofing by my opponent.If he asks me to come to the parking lot I tell him to fight me in the pool room. /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Vagabond, I agree with the points you've made. I want to reiterate that having a personal or unwritten code of conduct in pool sounds wonderful, but if you don't know your opponent, you can't assume that he cares about ethics, protocols or pool etiquette. If your opponent is the gambling type, I wouldn't take anything for granted. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

onepocketchump
03-30-2006, 05:49 AM
Losers expect etiquette - winner's write it as they go. In pool gambling there is no etiquette. There are things that some people thin should be practiced - i.e. don't quit winner - stay in until the other guy gives up, adjust when the game is out of line, give a guy a shot at his money back, don't lower the bet, don't change the game etc...

REALITY: there are no rules. Each and every session is a fully contained unit with no future and no past. Use whatever it takes to get to the table and then just play.

Gambling on pool is a futile endeavor. The worst thing that can happen is to take off a nice score because the resulting high only fuels the addiction. I know.

This is a lot different than hustling. Hustling is simply the act of deceiving the marks into games they absolutely have zero chance of winning. This is not gambling, it is stealing with one difference, the mark thinks he is stealing as well so he is responsible for his own greedy nature.

Gambling - there are rules you learn and follow and rules you learn and break at will. Each person follows their own code and the suckers are the only ethical ones.

John

Fran Crimi
03-30-2006, 06:16 AM
[ QUOTE ]
What is the protocol (for lack of a better word) for quitting ahead?
<hr /></blockquote>

Generally, what's done if you're ahead and you'd like to quit sometime in the immediate future, you give the person notice. You can say you'll be quitting in two hours or you'll play two more sets and allow him to bet more for those two sets. You don't owe it to him to break even at that point but it's considered the gentlemanly thing to do to give the guy a shot at winning at least some of his losses back, or at the least, let him know how much time he has left. It could go the other way too...he could lose more to you. At least he's in a position to make a choice. He may decide to cut his losses and get out right then.

Giving notice is always the safest way out.


Fran

Gcorp
03-31-2006, 07:32 AM
I think it really is up to the individual. If you are the kind of person who is a gambler at heart it really makes no real difference but a really and true gambler/pro would probably adjust his or her wager amounts appropriately so that they would still reap the rewards of an enhanced profit with minimal funds lost. In saying this I would say,"Have I already won a $1000 or $3?""Will I loose a $1000 or $3. There should always be rules set-up before each and every wager no matter what.