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wolfdancer
03-27-2006, 06:00 AM
I admit I didn't study any of the theories of the famed economists,Keynes, Friedman, Reagan, GWB....so I really don't have an answer to this question that I thought up:
If everybody worked for WalMart.....could anybody afford to shop at WalMart?
We seem to be heading in that direction.....

Deeman3
03-27-2006, 06:35 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> I admit I didn't study any of the theories of the famed economists,Keynes, Friedman, Reagan, GWB....so I really don't have an answer to this question that I thought up:
If everybody worked for WalMart.....could anybody afford to shop at WalMart?
We seem to be heading in that direction..... <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> Wolfdancer,

Good question. I've always thought it was hard for a person making, say, $15 an hour in Podunk, Mississippi to purchase an automobile made by someone making $30 an hour. I guess we are going to find out soon. </font color>


Deeman

Gayle in MD
03-27-2006, 06:49 AM
Some book recommendations on this subject...

American Theocracy by Kevin Phillips

Wealth and Democracy "

Dynasty "

Mr. Phillips is one of quite a few former supporters of conservative republicanism, who does not support the obvious bastardization of what many thought the policies of the right originally stood for.

He also wrote, back in 1969, The Emerging Republican Majority quite a constast to his more recent books.

Gayle in Md.

moblsv
03-27-2006, 06:52 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> I admit I didn't study any of the theories of the famed economists,Keynes, Friedman, Reagan, GWB....so I really don't have an answer to this question that I thought up:
If everybody worked for WalMart.....could anybody afford to shop at WalMart?
We seem to be heading in that direction..... <hr /></blockquote>

No, because then we would be working at the company store and might as well be paid in company script. The king could then control both the pay and the price having total control over the serfs.

Remember the feudalism and manor economies from history class; or the early mining days that created the the needs for unions and had company goons killing the troublemakers?

pooltchr
03-27-2006, 07:01 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> I've always thought it was hard for a person making, say, $15 an hour in Podunk, Mississippi to purchase an automobile made by someone making $30 an hour. </font color>

Let's do the math. $15 per hour times 40 hours is $600 per week or $31,200 per year. Let's take 23% out for taxes leaving $24,024 per year or $2002 per month net income. Since housing in Podunk would probably run around $500 per month, Utilities another $200, Groceries $400, and other expenses would probably be less than $400, that still leaves $500 per month for a car payment. Since a nice new car can probably be financed for $250 per month, I don't think it is out of the question for your $15 per hour employee to own a nice car and still live within their means.
Steve


Deeman <hr /></blockquote>

Rich R.
03-27-2006, 07:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> Let's do the math. $15 per hour times 40 hours is $600 per week or $31,200 per year. Let's take 23% out for taxes leaving $24,024 per year or $2002 per month net income. Since housing in Podunk would probably run around $500 per month, Utilities another $200, Groceries $400, and other expenses would probably be less than $400, that still leaves $500 per month for a car payment. Since a nice new car can probably be financed for $250 per month, I don't think it is out of the question for your $15 per hour employee to own a nice car and still live within their means.
Steve<hr /></blockquote>
I'm not sure you can get any type of decent housing, anywhere in this country, for $500 per month. It's probably closer to double that.
Also, let's hope this peson doesn't have a family to feed. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

moblsv
03-27-2006, 08:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr>
Good question. I've always thought it was hard for a person making, say, $15 an hour in Podunk, Mississippi to purchase an automobile made by someone making $30 an hour. I guess we are going to find out soon.<hr /></blockquote>

As somebody who until recently worked in the blue collar, minimum wage market I can first off tell you that if you have to you can always find a way to get by. It may require a lot of sacrifice but it is possible to get by on around $7 in most areas and $15 is not bad if you're uneducated and not fortunate enough to be born into money.

Also, as a former mininum wage worker, even for a while after I got my ME degree, I can tell you that this BS about needing people to fill jobs American's won't do is a bunch of crap. There are millions of American's who need these jobs and the wages they bring. If we import "slave labor" to do these jobs it will only depress the wages that these people need to survive; Would you do those jobs for $5.50 an hour? Those of us born into Blue Collar families need these wages in order to have any chance of obtaining an education and joining in on the American Dream.

As for the $30/hr unskilled labor jobs, that is bad for America as well. Job compensation should be based on supply and demand, education, skills and performance. There needs to be both a living wage that makes it worth a persons time to work but also the carrot of higher wages based on the given factors in order to encourage people to better themselves and increase the skillsets, productivity and contributions of the American workforce.

Oh, and since I strayed off topic, I bought my first car (that is that cost over $600) in 1997 when I got my first real job making about $15/hr. At that time I was able to buy my first house and a $28,000 car and still be within my means as a single male with no kids.

That would probably be much more difficult now but probably still possible, at least in Utah.

eg8r
03-27-2006, 08:20 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Also, as a former mininum wage worker, even for a while after I got my ME degree, I can tell you that this BS about needing people to fill jobs American's won't do is a bunch of crap. <hr /></blockquote> Things must be different in Utah than they are in Florida.

eg8r

moblsv
03-27-2006, 08:40 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Also, as a former mininum wage worker, even for a while after I got my ME degree, I can tell you that this BS about needing people to fill jobs American's won't do is a bunch of crap. <hr /></blockquote> Things must be different in Utah than they are in Florida.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

I'm sure many of these people would disagree

Florida Poverty rate (percent)
1979 20.3 13.0 13.5
1989 17.8 12.4 12.7
1999 16.1 12.3 12.5
2003 (latest model-based estimates) 14.8 12.9 13.0

eg8r
03-27-2006, 08:50 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure many of these people would disagree

Florida Poverty rate (percent)
1979 20.3 13.0 13.5
1989 17.8 12.4 12.7
1999 16.1 12.3 12.5
2003 (latest model-based estimates) 14.8 12.9 13.0 <hr /></blockquote> Well, maybe if you were to get your head out of a book and go to the local corner pickup you would see who agreed with me and who did not. Every day you see the van's pulling to the side of the road picking up workers whom will be paid for their work and every single one of them are of spanish decent. I bet if you had the guts to do it and actually walked up and asked if they were here legally you would get in some trouble or they would run off. Either way, you don't see these unemployed walking down to get work for a day, you see them leaning against a wall smoking a cig asking for change. I cannot remember the last time I saw a spanish man (illegal immigrant or not) sitting on the side of the road asking for handouts. I do see them working in the groves and on the construction sites.

eg8r

moblsv
03-27-2006, 10:04 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr>Well, maybe if you were to get your head out of a book and go to the local corner pickup you would see who agreed with me and who did not.<hr /></blockquote>

I used to be one of those people. At least back when I was digging ditches and picking peas I could make enough to pay the rent and get my education. I wouldn't go do that again for those wages now myself and I am sick of listening to silver spoon republicans telling me I'm lazy because I wouldn't.

Supply and demand. Import lots of slave labor and wages are depressed. Wages are too low there is no incentive. No incentive and welfare becomes a better option.

Fran Crimi
03-27-2006, 10:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote moblsv:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr>Well, maybe if you were to get your head out of a book and go to the local corner pickup you would see who agreed with me and who did not.<hr /></blockquote>

I used to be one of those people. At least back when I was digging ditches and picking peas I could make enough to pay the rent and get my education. I wouldn't go do that again for those wages now myself and I am sick of listening to silver spoon republicans telling me I'm lazy because I wouldn't.

Supply and demand. Import lots of slave labor and wages are depressed. Wages are too low there is no incentive. No incentive and welfare becomes a better option. <hr /></blockquote>

Maybe that's how it is in Utah, but it sure as hell isn't that way here in NYC. All I see around me are people lying cheating and stealing and will do anything and everything to get out of working for a living.

I remember in particular a woman, must have weighed upwards of 300 lbs pushing a stroller, with another kid hanging on the side...came up to me and asked me if I could give her money to buy food for her kids because her welfare check was late. What's wrong with this picture?

Fran

Gayle in MD
03-27-2006, 10:48 AM
Very true...I also never bought the "Jobs Americans won't do" BS that this administration puts out there. Next they'll be telling us they are exporting jobs Americans won't do.

Every week I see stories about large factories shutting down, steel, auto, textiles, and all the lay offs, I want to throw up everytime I hear some idiot say the economy is going great! Between exporting our jobs, and the illegal immigration workers, there is no wonder that US workers wages are dropping...You NEVER hear Bush talk about that! The workers of this country are getting screwed left and right, and Bush is leading the attack!


All I see around me are lying, cheating and stealing Republican Congressmen and Senators and will do anything and everything to get out of workin for a living !

/ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif LOL


Gayle in Md.
Proud I didn't voter for George Bush!

eg8r
03-27-2006, 10:56 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I used to be one of those people. At least back when I was digging ditches and picking peas I could make enough to pay the rent and get my education. I wouldn't go do that again for those wages now myself and I am sick of listening to silver spoon republicans telling me I'm lazy because I wouldn't.
<hr /></blockquote> It does not matter if you are sick of it. You obviously don't like being generalized with the rest of the lazy Americans not working for that pay, but you mention it while making a generalization yourself.

If you were sitting around unemployed and complaining about not having any money and that job was offered and you refused then you are lazy. You would rather a handout than work for it.

eg8r

wolfdancer
03-27-2006, 11:11 AM
[ QUOTE ]
No, because then we would be working at the company store and might as well be paid in company script. The king could then control both the pay and the price having total control over the serfs. <hr /></blockquote>
As Ernie Ford might have sang today:
"you work 16 hours and what do you get,
another day older and deeper in debt?
St. Peter don't you call me, 'cause I can't go,
I owe my soul to the company store"

I have reservations about all the glowing job
reports eminating from the White House....
when I read about thousands applying for a couple of
hundred of these poverty level jobs at each new WalMart opening.

ceebee
03-27-2006, 12:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Very true...I also never bought the "Jobs Americans won't do" BS, which this administration puts out there. Next, they'll be telling us they are exporting jobs Americans won't do.

Every week I see stories about large factories shutting down, steel, auto, textiles, and all the lay offs, I want to throw up everytime I hear some idiot say the economy is going great! Between exporting our jobs, and the illegal immigration workers, there is no wonder that US workers wages are dropping...You NEVER hear Bush talk about that! The workers of this country are getting screwed left and right, and Bush is leading the attack!

Gayle in Md.
Proud I didn't voter for George Bush!

<hr /></blockquote>

Political rhetoric is always a sly or shy way of lying to the public. Telling me that foreigners are needed to do work, that our citizenry will not, is an insult to my intelligence. The leaders of our country want to hire these foreigners at low wages, so low wages will become the NORM, over time. Going on at the same time, foreigners are using entitlement programs to get money, food, medicine or drugs &amp; that practice is severely penalizing the future of this country.

REMEMBER this: The Congress doesn't pay the bills, the U.S. Taxpayer pays the bills. Congress is just a terrificly HUGE Entitlement program in itself. The members of Congress are NOT leaders or honorable, they are elected theives &amp; liars who have perfected political rhetoric.

When a phone call, for service at the phone company or my internet provider, is answered 14,000 miles away in India, that instills a bit of caution in my soul, about my country's future. However, mMy personal future is all but gone away at 64.

Does anyone in Congress or Big Business care about tomorrow... let me answer that for you. "HELL NO"! There is no tomorrow or afterlife to concern one's self with, let us live &amp; spend as much money as we can on our friends &amp; our toys. We can worry about the future later, if the future really comes.

Drop1
03-27-2006, 12:38 PM
WalMart is going for a higher class customer,by introducing organic foods,and fish that did not harm dolphins when caught. This more expensive addition to WalMart's inventory will make it even more difficult for employees to shop where they work. Maybe food stamps would help. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif Its a good thing Wolf,you didn't read those books on economic theory,they really are dull,and like diet books,if you don't agree with the Author,wait a month,and something more to your taste will be on the top selling list.

Gayle in MD
03-27-2006, 02:03 PM
I couldn't agree with you more. There are many books emerging which address the widening chasm between the very wealthy and the middle class, which is melding into the poor, lower class. I just can't believe people think that this country can absorb the outsourcing of our jobs, losses in our manufacturing industry, influx of illegals, rising National and trade deficit, while we wage war, and the Bush administration cuts taxes, expands the federal government, and continues on their spending spree! Absolutely irresponsible and insane!

Gayle in Md.
Proud I didn't vote for Bush

Qtec
03-27-2006, 11:04 PM
IMIGRATION.

"Frist, a presidential aspirant whom Bush helped elect as majority leader, favors tightening control of the nation's borders without granting what he calls amnesty to the approximately 11 million illegal immigrants living in this country. But Bush favors a comprehensive approach, which he says must include some program to answer business's need for immigrant labor"

What he really means is 'cheap labour'.
Its unfair competition for the US worker. For most of these jobs, there is no paperwork, no tax paid, no insurance etc which for the legal worker brings a lot of problems. ie you cant get a loan,it will be difficult to find a house. There are many problems that arise ,all because you cant prove you are working. Its not just the low wages.

Do you really think that the US could not seal the border with Mex if they wanted to?

BTW, the oil comp. get billions in handouts every year- and they are making money!

Q.........

sack316
03-28-2006, 04:02 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> I'm not sure you can get any type of decent housing, anywhere in this country, for $500 per month. It's probably closer to double that.
Also, let's hope this peson doesn't have a family to feed. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Just a note on this point, but I actually live in a pretty big and nice (although older) apartment. 2 bedroom, 2 bath, large living area with decent sized kitchen and tons of closet space---includes fridge, stove, washer/dryer hookups, water and trash. All told my rent will be $410/month beginning in April... actually fifty bucks more than it was when I moved in 5 years ago!

I do admit I probbaly have a much better deal than most people have the chance to get, but still it shows it is possible to live fairly nicely at a po' man's wage.

** just figured it up, even someone making minimum wage (full time) would be able to live in my complex and pay utilities... of course eating may propose a problem /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Sack--- glad I'm bartending now and don't have to wory about the scraping by!

eg8r
03-28-2006, 07:42 AM
[ QUOTE ]
What he really means is 'cheap labour'.
<hr /></blockquote> What he really means is people who are willing to work for the correct pay. Just let the union come in an ruin the groves and pay these guys $15 hour to pick oranges and see how long the company stays in business.

[ QUOTE ]
Its unfair competition for the US worker. <hr /></blockquote> What you really mean is that it is unfair competition for the lazy US worker who thinks they are entitled to better pay.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote q's interpretation of W:</font><hr> What he really means is 'cheap labour'.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote q's sympathy for the worker:</font><hr> Its not just the low wages. <hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote> So when you are referring to something Bush says it is only about the low wages, but when you are sympathizing with the worker it is not about the wages.

[ QUOTE ]
Do you really think that the US could not seal the border with Mex if they wanted to?
<hr /></blockquote> It is not just Mexico, we have all the islands coming over also. Half the country of Cuba is making a living in South Florida doing the jobs that lazy/picky US workers will not do.

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, the oil comp. get billions in handouts every year- and they are making money! <hr /></blockquote> So do all the the other companies and countries around the world. The US gives handouts to everyone except the evil rich. They are forced to get tricky and find loopholes. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

eg8r
03-28-2006, 07:51 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Political rhetoric is always a sly or shy way of lying to the public. Telling me that foreigners are needed to do work, that our citizenry will not, is an insult to my intelligence. <hr /></blockquote> You might be putting a little too much on that intelligence of yours (joking). /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Moblsv made a post on the board about this very subject. He refused to take a certain job back because of the low wages. He is refusing to do the work, there is a good chance they replaced him with a non-US worker that was willing to do the job.

[ QUOTE ]
Going on at the same time, foreigners are using entitlement programs to get money, food, medicine or drugs &amp; that practice is severely penalizing the future of this country. <hr /></blockquote> I agree, we should get rid of all the entitlement programs. That way everyone will get up and work.

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone in Congress or Big Business care about tomorrow... let me answer that for you. "HELL NO"! <hr /></blockquote> No one needs you to answer for them, but I feel you are wrong about Big Business in general (there are always some outliers). They are looking at tomorrow, if not then they would be out of business. If anyone cared about tomorrow and keeping business here you would be calling for the destruction of all unions.

eg8r

Qtec
03-28-2006, 08:10 AM
Are you really so mentally challenged? I make a simple, non-confusing post and still you manage to screw it up! If you dont understand, ask your neigbour to explain it to you before you make a reply and make a total ass out of yourself.

" Quote q's interpretation of W:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What he really means is 'cheap labour'.

Quote q's sympathy for the worker:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Its not just the low wages.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So when you are referring to something Bush says it is only about the low wages, but when you are sympathizing with the worker it is not about the wages. "

I cant make it any simpler than this.
"What he really means is 'cheap labour'." <font color="blue"> ie, imigrants, illegal workers. </font color>

[ QUOTE ]
Its not just the low wages. <hr /></blockquote> <font color="blue">ie, the US citizen worker, legal worker. </font color>

$10 per hour working in the fields amongst the pesticides under the sun[ Cali/ Fl]is not 'too much'IMO. $5 is slave labour.

BTW, where do you think the army gets its recruits? Wall St?

Q

eg8r
03-28-2006, 08:15 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Are you really so mentally challenged? I make a simple, non-confusing post and still you manage to screw it up! <hr /></blockquote> Hey like it or not, you are the one changing what you say.

[ QUOTE ]
I cant make it any simpler than this.
"What he really means is 'cheap labour'." [ QUOTE ]
ie, imigrants, illegal workers.
<hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote> HELLOOOOO, no kidding. And those immigrants, illegal workers are not working for the same bread. The comment from you IS only about money. You feel the company would rather pay the illegals because they will WORK FOR LESS. Just because you simple things down to your level does not mean you still cannot screw it up, just keep talking it is bound to happen. It took Gayle two posts on civil war to change the defintion. LOL, it only took you a couple sentences.

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, where do you think the army gets its recruits? Wall St?
<hr /></blockquote> From the population willing to work.

eg8r

Qtec
03-28-2006, 08:22 AM
Ed, I WAS an illegal worker. I didnt pay tax- any tax- no med insurance, nothing. No bank account, nothing.
Once you get a 'real'job, thats when the problems start. Ever had a job interview and you cant account for the last 8 years? Then the tax jumps in. etc, etc ,etc.
Q

pooltchr
03-28-2006, 08:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Ed, I WAS an illegal worker. I didnt pay tax- any tax- no med insurance, nothing. No bank account, nothing.
Once you get a 'real'job, thats when the problems start. Ever had a job interview and you cant account for the last 8 years? Then the tax jumps in. etc, etc ,etc.
Q <hr /></blockquote>

Another arguement against illegal immigration!
Illegals just keep digging deeper and deeper into a hole that is hard to get out of. Not to mention, they don't pay taxes like the legal residents.
We don't need 'em!
Steve

moblsv
03-28-2006, 09:10 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr>Moblsv made a post on the board about this very subject. He refused to take a certain job back because of the low wages. He is refusing to do the work, there is a good chance they replaced him with a non-US worker that was willing to do the job.<hr /></blockquote>

No, I wouldn't go back to those at the wages they pay today. Bringing in slave labor has and will reduce wages to where hard working Americans can't make a living.

It seems the Republicans aren't happy with returning to the 1950's, now they want to go back to 1850 and bring back slavery. It is so sad to see what has happened to Lincoln's Republican party.

Gayle in MD
03-28-2006, 09:50 AM
Yes, he is mentally challenged, He does nothing but lie about everything, particularly about my posts. Twisting facts to support his mentally challenged ability to read, with his only goal to just try to irritate people, that is his only aim, to irritate, degrade and insult.

Your post is accurate and true, unless one (READ ED)practices selective reading.

Illegal Aliens cost us over 200 billion a year. Some estimates are that as many as 20 million are here now, 11 million for sure, but most experts say that is in fact only roughly half of them. They cost our working citizens fifty billion per year in social and medical costs alone, per year, and they represent one third of our prison population, the cost for which I don't have, but I can imagine how much that would come to.

Guest worker program, is nothing more than amnesty. We already have a guest worker program, which provides a legal way for people to come here and integrate into our society without dragging the country down and robbing hard working Americans by having them foot the bill for the illegal workers who are actually criminals who have broken OUR law, it is called a VISA.

George Bush doesn't give a good GD about this, because anything that puts money into the hands of corporations, or gets votes for republicans, regardless of whether it drags down the middle class or not, is what he is always for. Both republicans and democrats make me ill when it is so obvious that all they care about is re-election, not so they can make a positive difference in our society, but just so they can continue to take bribes from crooks for the rest of their lives, by and large, and continue to rub shoulders with money, we all know that, which is why we should be demanding real campaign reform.

No one can legitimately say that these illegals are taking jobs that Americans won't do, because cheap labor drives down wages, and because wages, what Americans can make in a days work, are what determine ones choice to take a job in the first place, so that is just another Bush lie, of which there are too many to count! The bottom level of educational workers in this country performed those jobs, by and large, for centuries, and beleive me, they are all still out there, but they are now on unemployment and other social programs which adds an additional drain. Greedy corporate and business owners, who feel no patriotic obligation to their country, and hire illegals are a big drag on our economics, and should be heartily fined for breaking the law, so that that money could help pay for all the losses being absorbed, and for tighter border controls, and deportation. People say there is not answer, and there is no immediate answer, but over a period of time, all these things could continue to decrease the numbers of illegals already here.

Jobs are being affected in many sectors, too, btw, not just agriculturel jobs, but also many construction jobs which do not pay now what they did before this illegal occupation of our country by aliens began to truly soar, post Bush's portrayal of being soft on illegals, and all his spanish speaches, and sucking up to (Mexico) Fox. The pay for construction jobs, lawn services, Nanny and child care, just to name a few, all being suppressed by the illegals who don't pay into the system, but drain it daily. I read recently that North Carolina is loosing over a billion a year, due to illegals, in the construction field alone. Illegals already have BETTER health and social services than many hard working Americans have as it is. They are degrading our educational system, and robbing hospitals so badly that the government is subsidizing hospitals, with our money of course. More than half of them have no high school diploma.

WE only have 11,000 agents, covering more than 6,000 miles of borders, north and south, plus another 2,000 miles of coastal shoreline. Last year agents seized more than 12,000 lbs. of Cocaine, and over one million lbs, of Pot. More than three million each year cross the borders illegally, only one million were arrested last year.

If the greedy, unpatriotic American Business man, who is actually the real source of the problem in all of this, had to absorb a hefty fine for hiring them in the first place, and representatives would spend our money tracking them down, and Bush's mock Department of Homeland Security was operational, we could begin to make a dent, atleast, instead of arranging things so that they will be encouraged to come here in the first place. I am all for spending money to increase agents, and shoot to kill at our borders. When any law enforcment officer in this country says stop, that is what one risks. They (Illegals) are now assassinating our agents, border patrols and local law enforcment. We wouldn't have to kill very many of them before they would realize that the party is over.

Bush's plan is nothing more than amnesty, and will only encourage more of these criminals to break the law. He has been yapping about guest worker programs since before he got in there, and that has sent the wrong message, hence the great increase....But then, our laws never have held any weight or improtance to George Bush, he breaks them regularly himself.

A Nation with no border controls, cannot be protected. Protecting Americans, supposedly something Bush is only interested in trying to do on the other side of the world, in spite of how the 9/11 highjackers got here in the first place. Corruption in the Customs Department, in Iraq, in the White House, and on the floor of the Senate and Congress is the reason why this problem is increasing, along with all our other problems. Human greed and corruption is what will eventually bring this country down.

Gayle in Md.

Qtec
03-28-2006, 10:35 AM
Gayle, when you get a call from a finance C.[ whatever] and it turns out that you are talking to someone in India, they call it 'outsourcing' and everyone agrees its a bad thing for the US worker.
In the case of illegal imigrants, the third world is now inside America, its exactly the same thing but now the US worker is being blamed for not wanting to work for slave wages.
If India was allowed to send 15 million exectutives to the USA,[ prepared to work for %20 of the normal wage ]- bingo! Then you would see a change in attitude.

The only ones who dont benefit from illegal imigrants is the average US worker.

Q

Gayle in MD
03-28-2006, 11:30 AM
Yes, and they (India) dont even have to send them over here, it's still happening. What if every American stopped doing business with every single corporation and company who is out-sourcing, would that trend work? Sure, it would be hard and inconvenient, but I do it every single time, and I write to the president of the company and tell them...I will not do business with any company who out-sources American Jobs.

I will never do business with you again....

I have changed banks three times, refuse to buy anything from Walmart, and yes, I pay more for lots of things, than I would have to pay if I weren't doing this, but we have to start somewhere, and we have the power, if we just organized and used it.

People think all these illegals are just picking strawberries....but that is not so. We have let this problem get so out of hand, only drastic measures will make a dent in solving it, but we have to start somewhere, and guns on the borders are the firts place to start, followed up with a vigor for finding, and deporting them, and implementing healthy fines against those who hire them....even if we have to collect over a period of years. If we don't address this problem, I really don't see how we will avoid economic disaster. NAFTA...should be called SHAFTYA, (Thats from Bill Maher, one of my heros) and supposedly the ONLY place where I get my infromation, LMAO....



We are just re-creating all the problems that evolved out of black slave labor. No master ever loved his slave, and no slave ever loved his master. Watching those demonstrators should have reminded us what is ahead. What will happen when this predicted Real Estate crash hits, and construction drops? It's got to happen sometime. Construction is one of the fields that is filled with illegals, and costing states great losses in revenues. Do people think these illegals are all nice law abiding people,..... they will be breaking into our homes, and causing trememdous crime issues, they can't sign up for unemployment.

I posted about my Aunt, long ago, who had to sell her Bowling business, because illegals were standing on the street corner, waiting for people to pick them up for construction work, but their friends were there also, selling drugs. The whole community is now full of illegals, businesses closing down, and the only reason property values aren't falling is because it is so close to the District of Columbia, and in a high income area, but that area is changing drastically. There is a big push on now to tear down and re-build business into houseing, but Crime is going up, and unemployment in the surrounding lower income area, is rising. IF the RE market were to take a dive right now, those places would sit empty, nobody would buy them. Economic trends pick up a lot of steam real fast when things start to tip.

Illegal worker programs are definately not the solution. That is nothing more than an invitation for more of them to come here. Damn, if we were going to invade any country, it should have been Mexico. We should have taken over the whole damn country, and changed their leadership, instead of giving ours away to them! Now, that would have been a war worth fighting!
/ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Gayle in Md.....

eg8r
03-29-2006, 06:47 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Ed, I WAS an illegal worker. I didnt pay tax- any tax- no med insurance, nothing. No bank account, nothing.
Once you get a 'real'job, thats when the problems start. <hr /></blockquote> Well give yourself a pat on the back for coming clean and getting an honest job. Decisions, decisions. It should not come as a surprise that trying to fix bad decisions comes with a consequence and it is not supposed to be easy. Just think, if you were here working illegally the President might just give you a free ride, when the rest of the nation wants to just pack you up and push you out of a fast moving truck alongside the border.

eg8r

eg8r
03-29-2006, 06:49 AM
[ QUOTE ]
It seems the Republicans aren't happy with returning to the 1950's, now they want to go back to 1850 and bring back slavery. It is so sad to see what has happened to Lincoln's Republican party. <hr /></blockquote> LOL, thanks for the humor. Slavery. You are hilarious.

eg8r

DickLeonard
03-29-2006, 07:13 AM
Eg8r are you working when your posting or are you retired. I hope your retired or else your stealing time from your employer to answer this right wing whacko garbage.

This is my last post to eg8r until you google GWB and read all of his past and then tell me why the FBI didn't investigate the Bush Dynasty and spent their time with investigating lowly Mafia figures whose deeds pale in the light of the Bush's deeds. Poor John Gotti and Vinnie the Chin Gigante died in prison for far less crimes than they have committed.####

Gayle in MD
03-29-2006, 07:38 AM
Wrong again, they paid 16 million in taxes last year, the problem is that they cost 26 million in services, so they still socked the taxpayers with a big bill. For example, in the race track industry, 102 billion dollar industry, the Bush administration has overturned the industry, telling black Americans that they don't want their jobs.

When Bush says, "Jobs Americans won't do,"""
the translation is, "I, and all my other elite, white, wealthy friends dont want these jobs."

If we started a CEO immigration plan, and targeted that market with cheap immigration labor, they'd be standing on the borders with WMD's pointed at them within 24 hours.

As long as special interests can bribe our politicians, and we have no real campaign reform, the vast jajority of American people will not be represented. The people behind the cheap immigration labor force, and the neglect of imposing our immigration laws, are the Special interest groups whose lobbyist are being paid by greedy big corporations like, Levi Strause, Home Depot, Walmart, Rebocs, etc., all those cheating, stealing Billionaire CEO's who put George Bush into office, and hence have expandeed their wealth by a greater margin than ever before in the history of our country thanks to his tax cuts which favor them, in particular.

Gayle in Md.
So proud that I didn't voter for George Bush!

Gayle in MD
03-29-2006, 07:48 AM
LMAO! Sure, he's at work. Amazing, isn't it, how all the self-proclaimed executives from the south are wasting their valuable time posting on the internet...lol....

He's all for the war, but he won't go fight in it. He's against hand outs, but he's planning on them for his daughter's education. In his view, if you're poor, and black, you're automatically lazy. Who the hell worked any harder than black slaves, and black agricultural workers, who can't even get hired anymore?

And NO...I do not seek, nor will I accept, the nomination for President Of The United States....AH HA HA HA... /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Gayle in Md.
So proud I did not vote for George Bush!

Further, If elected...I will not serve...BWA HA HA HA

DickLeonard
03-29-2006, 08:02 AM
Gayle when I read that he went to the head of the waiting list to get in the Texas Air National during the Viet Nam experience. I wonder how many of those on the list that got drafted went to Nam and died in place of George. Pretty sweet taking training on a jet that was being phased out of service so he would never be activated for War. Then spent his time campaigning instead of making meetings.

When you read this garbage it makes me sick that the same person stands up before a Military audience and says go die for your country even though I wouldn't be caught dead there. It makes me sicker that they applaud the scumbag.####

DickLeonard
03-29-2006, 08:07 AM
Gayle I missed replying about the CEOs but I did read that India and China are graduating 400,000 scientist a year and a million engineers so that sector is becoming endangered.####

Gayle in MD
03-29-2006, 08:38 AM
Well, it makes me sick too, but I lived for a time in the Upper Marlboro horse country, not far from Andrews Air Force Base, and also worked on the base, and on the hill, in my teens, and performed for the USO, weekends, as a teen, and one think you can bet, those troops, and families of those troops, that you see applauding for Bush in the backgroud during his speeches know damed well that they better put on a ragin' good show of support if they want to get promoted, just like the generals who get out and lie for him about what is going on on the ground in Iraq. Their stories don't come near what I hear at Walter Reed, beleive me, and John Murtha, is the ONLY one on the hill who is really telling the whole truth about the war, or our troops, or the opinion of the generals on the ground, so all these partisan right wing robots on here are the ones who aren't patriotic, are ill informed, and are not showing support for our troops,.... not Murtha, and not any of the Americans who speak out against this lying crook in the White House!

Gayle in Md.
So proud that I did not vote for George Bush!

eg8r
03-29-2006, 10:47 AM
[ QUOTE ]
When Bush says, "Jobs Americans won't do,"""
the translation is, "I, and all my other elite, white, wealthy friends dont want these jobs."
<hr /></blockquote> Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. Bush and his wealthy elite friends would never even have to look at these jobs. They can afford to snub their noses. When Bush is referring to Americans who will not work the jobs, he is referring to those that NEED a job and still will not take them because of the task or the pay.

[ QUOTE ]
So proud that I didn't <font color="red"> voter </font color>for George Bush! <hr /></blockquote> Much unlike your grade school spelling teacher. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

eg8r
03-29-2006, 10:53 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Eg8r are you working when your posting or are you retired. I hope your retired or else your stealing time from your employer to answer this right wing whacko garbage. <hr /></blockquote> Or else you don't have any understanding of the environment in which I work and the ability to break the day out in increments so to correctly charge all my time. I have plenty of time to answer you, the left wing garbage whacko pundit. I don't work to a schedule and come and go as I please.

[ QUOTE ]
This is my last post to eg8r <hr /></blockquote> Will I now have two puppy dogs following my posts and secretly replying to me in a reply to another? What will you guys do, I only have two ankles and Gayle likes to snap at both. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

eg8r
03-29-2006, 11:04 AM
[ QUOTE ]
He's all for the war, but he won't go fight in it. <font color="red"> You see, I can vote for war and not actually fight, just like you can spout BS about the President but not run for office. When you are ready to grow up and act like an adult you will see how juvenile you are when making these statements. </font color> He's against hand outs, but he's planning on them for his daughter's education. <font color="red"> Oh, ignorance in all its splendor. Thank you for offering your mug as an example. I just love how you belittle hard work in this statement and then want poor Americans to get everything handed to them for not working at all. The more you talk the more your personality comes out, hatred, race baiting, facism, where does it end? Maybe you can show us how much you love America's poor by turning that future Beach house of yours into a soup kitchen. I am sure you would love to open your sailboat up the inner city kids, you know they deserve to sail to Bahamas just like you do. What a hypocrite. </font color> In his view, if you're poor, and black, you're automatically lazy. Who the hell worked any harder than black slaves, and black agricultural workers, who can't even get hired anymore? <font color="red"> You are the race baiter that brought color into the discussion. No one else has mentioned it but you. By you sectioning out the blacks as the only possible poor US citizen you show us your racism. </font color>

And NO...I do not seek, nor will I accept, the nomination for President Of The United States....AH HA HA HA... <font color="red"> No kidding! That would require a level of intelligence in which Bush has met and both you and Kerry fall behind. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif </font color> <hr /></blockquote> So, there you have it. Any more stupid questions as to whether I will be enlisted will be answered by Gayle's reply here.

eg8r