PDA

View Full Version : Paying Dues in the Pool World



Tom_In_Cincy
03-28-2006, 01:57 PM
I've been reading a lot of opinions about the IPT not recognizing the players that have 'paid their dues' and selecting them to the orginal 150 members.

My question is this;

What constitutes a player that has paid their dues?

Does a 'dues payer' have to be a 'recognizable name'? 1st place finishes in regional tournaments? only national tournamnets?

Is there a certain time frame that has to be considered?

Are shortstops eliminated because they don't play in big tournaments? But, what if they are well known regionally?

How high do you have to gamble to be considered a dues payer?

After paying all these dues, what are you entitled to?

Just throwing these questions out to see what kind of responses I get, and its been awhile since I started a thread.

Eric.
03-28-2006, 02:48 PM
Just throwing out a thought...

While there are a lot of deserving players that should have been included, the hard fact is that 150 isn't enough spots to included everyone. I do like the fact that the IPT has made some distinction for Hall of Fame members.


Eric

Ralph S.
03-28-2006, 02:59 PM
Hi Tom! I don't think that one can put a number of years of playing as a requirement of "paying ones dues". Nor can one say that just because they are a high dollar money player they have "paid more dues" than those that don't gamble nearly as high or as much as the ones that do.

There are alot of really, really good players that do nothing but play tournaments. I feel this makes them just as "dues worthy" as the high roller players. As far as short stops go, some do nothing but play pool, while some play and do the regular working stiff routine. I am sure there are quite a few shortys that are better than some of the pros. I doubt you would ever get the roadies to admit it, but I am certain they have had their share of losses and close calls a short stop now and then.

Brian in VA
03-29-2006, 06:15 AM
Good post Tom! FWIW I think this dues paying thing is bogus. Someone starts a tournament or a tour, they aren't beholden to round up the "best" players to make up their event. The fact that the IPT did manage to do something for the HOFers is terrific and shows respect for those that have paved the way. I do think the IPT organizers misunderstood how "unwired" many of the great pool players are and that caused some deserving players to get missed the first go around because the only messages that went out were over the internet. Could they have done a better job informing players? Sure. Does that mean the IPT will be an inferior product? I don't think so.

Just my 2 cents. I could be wrong.

Brian in VA

DickLeonard
03-29-2006, 06:33 AM
Tom I wrote this in the 1960s in the American Billiard Review. We we dropped the Atom Bomb, Russia set out to steal our secrets they didn't try to start from scratch. The PGA of America has the greatest gimmick in the world that they use to promote tourneys,find 1500 volunteers weekly to help run the tourneys,etc. What we should do is copy their proven secret. USe their rules for Qualifying to play on tour.

46 years later pool is still in the dark and Tiger Woods Caddy makes more money a year than all the poolplayers combined.

The blueprints are there for the taking with no takers.####

Fran Crimi
03-29-2006, 07:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> I've been reading a lot of opinions about the IPT not recognizing the players that have 'paid their dues' and selecting them to the orginal 150 members.

My question is this;

What constitutes a player that has paid their dues? <font color="blue"> I think it's a subjective term but it basically means sacrifice of some sort. </font color>

Does a 'dues payer' have to be a 'recognizable name'? 1st place finishes in regional tournaments? only national tournamnets? <font color="blue"> In a way, I think a recognizable name isn't such a bad place to start. You usually don't get 'recognizable' by sitting around doing nothing. </font color>

Is there a certain time frame that has to be considered? <font color="blue"> I'm sure there is, but within reason. Obviously, someone who's 85 years old might not have much of a chance to take down an IPT event, however, someone in their 60's who's still fit and able to compete shouldn't be ignored. </font color>

Are shortstops eliminated because they don't play in big tournaments? But, what if they are well known regionally? <font color="blue"> Have they paid their dues??? </font color>

How high do you have to gamble to be considered a dues payer? <font color="blue"> It's not only about gambling. </font color>

After paying all these dues, what are you entitled to? <font color="blue"> Generally, nothing other than a little local fame. However, with the IPT, maybe a shot at a decent living. </font color>

Just throwing these questions out to see what kind of responses I get, and its been awhile since I started a thread.

<hr /></blockquote>

Tom_In_Cincy
03-29-2006, 09:22 AM
Brian, I have to give a 'nod' to the bogus statement.

"Sour Grapes" comes to mind with most "dues paying done" pool players that I know.

Tom_In_Cincy
03-29-2006, 09:38 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr>
The blueprints are there for the taking with no takers.#### <hr /></blockquote>

Sad, but true, I spent many hot summer days on the 10th green leader score board. The Danny Thomas (St. Jude) Memphis Classic. I also got a great view of all the Pros coming up the fairway and playing their 7 iron shot onto the green, or in the traps.

Great formula and it is FREE.

Tom_In_Cincy
03-29-2006, 09:42 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> I've been reading a lot of opinions about the IPT not recognizing the players that have 'paid their dues' and selecting them to the orginal 150 members.

My question is this;

What constitutes a player that has paid their dues? <font color="blue"> I think it's a subjective term but it basically means sacrifice of some sort. </font color>

<font color="brown">Fran, I'm not sure what you mean by 'sacrifice of some sort', I can only assume this implys that the players made a choice. </font color>

Does a 'dues payer' have to be a 'recognizable name'? 1st place finishes in regional tournaments? only national tournamnets? <font color="blue"> In a way, I think a recognizable name isn't such a bad place to start. You usually don't get 'recognizable' by sitting around doing nothing. </font color>

Is there a certain time frame that has to be considered? <font color="blue"> I'm sure there is, but within reason. Obviously, someone who's 85 years old might not have much of a chance to take down an IPT event, however, someone in their 60's who's still fit and able to compete shouldn't be ignored. </font color>

Are shortstops eliminated because they don't play in big tournaments? But, what if they are well known regionally? <font color="blue"> Have they paid their dues??? </font color>

How high do you have to gamble to be considered a dues payer? <font color="blue"> It's not only about gambling. </font color>

After paying all these dues, what are you entitled to? <font color="blue"> Generally, nothing other than a little local fame. However, with the IPT, maybe a shot at a decent living. </font color>

Just throwing these questions out to see what kind of responses I get, and its been awhile since I started a thread.

<hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote>

I wonder if anyone is capable of listing what these "DUES" are and how pool players go about paying them?

DickLeonard
03-29-2006, 10:14 AM
Tom thanks your the first poolplayer that ever agreed on that. You know if they don't get the 1500 volunteers and have to pay them they will be playing for a lot less.

They have a Motorcycle Rally in Lake George each year that draws thousands and the promoter of the event makes money on the event using volunteers who love the event and don't mind working for Zero.

Now the State is stepping in saying you cannot use volunteers only for non profit, they must be paid which could kill Lake George's Golden Goose. The same issue could be made of the PGAs events in New York State. It only becomes a charity after the purse+expenses are met. It has been many years since the purse hasn't been met but it happened in the past and could happen in the future.####

Tom_In_Cincy
03-29-2006, 11:13 AM
I can just see it now...

"Wanted: Voluteers needed for Pool tournament, long hours are required"

And, thanks for all the 'volunteers' that have already put in their time working with the promoters and pool hall owners in all the events.

I know there are volunteers, we have them in our pool hall, but never enough.

Deeman3
03-29-2006, 12:45 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> <hr /></blockquote>

I wonder if anyone is capable of listing what these "DUES" are and how pool players go about paying them? <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> Tom,

I paid my dues back in 1974. I believe they were $50.00 for PPPA! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif </font color>

Deeman
is suffering from blue lung enough to pay your dues?

Fran Crimi
03-29-2006, 01:18 PM
[ QUOTE ]

I wonder if anyone is capable of listing what these "DUES" are and how pool players go about paying them? <hr /></blockquote>

Capable? Sure, no problem. First of all, yes, it's a choice, but there's sacrifice involved.

Here are some examples of paying your dues. I'm sure there are many others:

Staying out all night, night after night after night to practice, then going home to take a shower and then going straight to your 'real' job...because the other one isn't paying you enough to live.

Paying table time, and more table time, and more table time, and more table time for years and years and years.

Driving for hours on end to play someone who's better than you, or to enter local tournaments, happy to break even if at all possible, usually not.

Flying to tournaments knowing you're in the red unless you finish in the top 10.

Studying the game for days, weeks, years.

Losing, divorcing, breaking up with your significant other because they don't have the passion that you do, nor do they understand yours.

Watching life pass you by as you get better and better yet your bank account has very little to show for your level of skill.

When every muscle, tendon or bone in your body aches from shooting the same shot over and over and over until you get it right.

Practicing your break for a year...not a day or a week. A YEAR.

Looking back on it all and asking yourself if it was worth it and the answer is always yes.

Fran

Tom_In_Cincy
03-29-2006, 02:02 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr>
I wonder if anyone is capable of listing what these "DUES" are and how pool players go about paying them? <hr /></blockquote>

Capable? Sure, no problem. First of all, yes, it's a choice, but there's sacrifice involved.

Here are some examples of paying your dues. I'm sure there are many others:

Staying out all night, night after night after night to practice, then going home to take a shower and then going straight to your 'real' job...because the other one isn't paying you enough to live.
<font color="blue"> I've always had to have a job, Staying out all nite playing pool and practicing was a pleasure. </font color>

Paying table time, and more table time, and more table time, and more table time for years and years and years.
<font color="blue"> When I learned to work the pro shop and get free table time.. my cash on hand increased. </font color>

Driving for hours on end to play someone who's better than you, or to enter local tournaments, happy to break even if at all possible, usually not.
<font color="blue">Funny part about this, is when you shared the 'drive' with a few pool buddies and having to play them in the early rounds, break even was never accomplished, always figured to spend more than won. </font color>

Flying to tournaments knowing you're in the red unless you finish in the top 10.
<font color="blue"> Oh, how true.. what makes the trip worth all the cash layout? the competition, friends, getting away, the fact that you can compete and need to, some things cost more than winning any tournament can cover </font color>


Studying the game for days, weeks, years.
<font color="blue"> Life is way too short to learn all there is about pocket billiards. </font color>

Losing, divorcing, breaking up with your significant other because they don't have the passion that you do, nor do they understand yours.
<font color="blue"> I've been very lucky over the last 25 years, my wife knows I am very happy when I am playing pool. Before her, I didn't know any women that played pool or were happy that their boyfriends played. </font color>

Watching life pass you by as you get better and better yet your bank account has very little to show for your level of skill.
<font color="blue"> Once again, my pool winnings in a year wouldn't come close to the taxes I paid on my job's wages. Pool's never been a job, just a passion. </font color>

When every muscle, tendon or bone in your body aches from shooting the same shot over and over and over until you get it right.
<font color="blue"> Hours and hours of drills, reading, watching, seeing the shot that you know others can make, but why can't you? Same shot over and over until you are making marks on the cloth and the other regulars can recognize what table you've been practicing on. </font color>
Practicing your break for a year...not a day or a week. A YEAR.
<font color="blue"> 8, 9, 14.1 and One Pocket breaks.. I still practice them. Been going on for almost 30 years. At least an hour a week on each, maybe more when I have more time. </font color>

Looking back on it all and asking yourself if it was worth it and the answer is always yes.

<font color="blue"> Not only YES, but being proud you still stick with it when you've seen others quit, or just give up and never try to improve at all. </font color>

Fran <hr /></blockquote>

I may have come close to paying dues, but, I sure don't expect anything from the pool world. I only expect to continue paying the dues and reaping my rewards of consistant play and the respect of my game by others that have competed against me, winners or losers, it doesn't matter.

Voodoo Daddy
03-29-2006, 04:49 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> They have a Motorcycle Rally in Lake George each year that draws thousands and the promoter of the event makes money on the event using volunteers who love the event and don't mind working for Zero.#### <hr /></blockquote>

Thats cause BIKERS are nicer than people!! LMFAO!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Scott Lee
03-30-2006, 12:27 AM
tap,tap,tap! Great post Tom...I especially agreed with your last paragraph!

Scott

DickLeonard
03-31-2006, 06:55 AM
Voodoo Daddy I delivered Liquor to Lake Placid one summer they had the Wally Buyam Caravan. Wally was the creator of Airstream moveable homes. The caravan overtook the towns available parking but the caravan had scouted the towns restaurants and if they had raised their prices they were blacklisted. Even tho they had to put on new employees for the two weeks they were in the area. They left leaving the rottenest tasted in Lake Placids mouth. Wally"s name could be misspelled.

The next year the had the BMW motorcyle rally with thousands of Bikers and no after taste.####

DickLeonard
03-31-2006, 07:25 AM
Fran you have described pool life to a cue. I was going to use tee but maybe we can alter a slang expression to Billiards instead of Golf.

In NYC you had The Golden Cue open 24 hours and most of the action after midnight. Paying NYC table time you better improve fast or you could end up broke.

There were many great players to watch and learn from. Most players wouldn't reveal their secrets being afraid they would be used against them. Being a woman that in their mind could never hurt them they might loosen up.

Seeing the look on my Neuroligist face when I tell her given the choice of running two hundred balls or making love to the most beautiful women I would take running two hundred balls. It is a high that unless you have done it can't be understood.####