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Qtec
03-30-2006, 01:20 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Man Given 30 Years In Plot Against Bush
Judge Rejects Life Sentence for Abu Ali

By Caryle Murphy
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, March 30, 2006; A03



A federal judge in Alexandria yesterday sentenced Ahmed Omar Abu Ali, the Falls Church man convicted of conspiring to kill President Bush and of joining an al-Qaeda cell in Saudi Arabia, to 30 years in prison with 30 additional years of supervised release.

U.S. District Judge Gerald Bruce Lee denied government prosecutors' request to impose a life sentence, citing several mitigating factors, including the fact that Abu Ali "never planted any bombs, shot any gun or injured any person."

The 30-year sentence will "adequately and reasonably reflect" the seriousness of Abu Ali's offenses and "provide just punishment," Lee said, because it means the U.S.-born citizen, 25, will spend "most of his productive years in prison."

Abu Ali, dressed in a dark green jumpsuit with "Prisoner" stenciled in white on the back, showed no emotion when the sentence was announced. He declined to address the court before being sentenced.

Deputy Attorney General Paul J. McNulty hailed the sentence in a statement as "strong punishment for the defendant's egregious crimes. It is important that Abu Ali remain behind bars until he is no longer a threat to the American people."

McNulty called Abu Ali's prosecution "a milestone achievement in the international effort to bring terrorists to justice."

The sentence disappointed Abu Ali's family and friends, who maintain that he was wrongly convicted on statements that they say were obtained under coercion and torture during his 20-month incarceration in Saudi Arabia.

"I think it's a sad day not only for me as a mother but for the whole country," said Abu Ali's mother, Faten Abu Ali, after the proceedings. "America is all about justice and democracy. Before we export democracy to the outside, we have to have it in our own land. My son didn't have a fair trial."

Abu Ali attorney Khurrum Wahid called the sentence "disappointing," noting that Abu Ali had testified during a pretrial hearing that "he was tortured, and that is the only reason he had made these statements."

Lee later said he found it implausible that Abu Ali was tortured, and jurors said after their verdict that they did not believe his story.

At his trial in November, the jury convicted Abu Ali of nine counts, including conspiring to assassinate the president and commit aircraft piracy, providing material support to al-Qaeda and plotting terrorist activities in the United States. Those activities included kidnapping members of Congress.

Abu Ali's attorneys have said they will appeal his conviction.

The trial was the first in a U.S. criminal courtroom to rely so heavily on evidence gathered by a foreign intelligence service. Security officers from Saudi Arabia, testifying anonymously via video from the kingdom, provided significant portions of the government's case.

But Abu Ali's conviction was based primarily on his videotaped confession to Saudi authorities after his arrest there in June 2003. He was detained as he was taking final exams at the Islamic University of Medina after other members of the al-Qaeda cell he had joined identified him to Saudi police.

Saudi authorities declined to prosecute Abu Ali, and U.S. officials did not request that the Saudis hand him over to them. <font color="blue">Why didnt the US want him? </font color> His family then mounted a highly public campaign to have him brought home. They sued the U.S. government in federal court in Washington, contending that U.S. officials were complicit in the detention and torture of their son by Saudi security officers.

When that lawsuit threatened to force disclosure of information U.S. officials wanted to keep classified, the U.S. government formally asked for custody of Abu Ali. <font color="blue"> ie, they have no evidence! </font color>

In February 2005, Abu Ali was transferred to the Alexandria jail, where he has been in solitary confinement.<hr /></blockquote>


<font color="blue"> Do the Saudis torture? </font color>


[ QUOTE ]
“The practice of torture in Saudi Arabia is well-documented, and the government is legally obligated to investigate these recent allegations.”

Torture is prohibited under Saudi law and international human rights law. In October 1997, Saudi Arabia became a state party to the U.N. Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, and the convention’s provisions became part of Saudi domestic legislation.

Background

The three Britons, Paul Moss, David Mornin, and Kelvin Hawkins, were arrested in the wake of a series of bombings in Riyadh and Khobar. The bombings, which began in November 2000, killed one British citizen and injured others. Saudi authorities maintained that the violence was a consequence of turf wars among expatriates involved in the illegal but highly lucrative alcohol trade in the kingdom. Six other foreigners, one Canadian, one Belgian, and four Britons, continue to be held on suspicion of involvement in these incidents, but have not yet been charged or tried. Three of them were shown on Saudi state television on February 4, 2001, “confessing” to the bombings; the remaining three made similar “confessions” that were aired on August 13, 2001.

Moss and Mornin told the Guardian of severe physical abuse, and all three men said that they had been subjected to sleep deprivation while under interrogation:

Paul Moss, who was arrested in December 2000, described how he was treated while in the custody of the interior ministry at a facility in Riyadh, the Saudi capital, where he said he was held in solitary confinement for seven weeks. “I did not have a name: I was just addressed as a number throughout by an interrogator who was obviously well-educated. Every time I was taken from the windowless cell two floors up for interrogation I was blindfolded and shackled.” He told the Guardian that he was deprived of sleep, and beaten on four separate occasions: “They hit me in the testicles with a stick. Then they hit me on the chin each time as I went down.” Moss also alleged that he was intimidated and threatened: “They took me on the roof and said they would throw me off and say I'd been trying to escape. They said they'd done that before. They threatened to plant drugs in my house to get my wife and child beheaded.”

David Mornin, who was arrested in November 2000, said that he was held in solitary confinement in a punishment cell for eight weeks “with the light burning all the time.” He told the Guardian that he too was subjected to physical abuse and threats while in interior ministry custody, in attempts to elicit a confession: “They flung me off the walls, punched me in the gut, kicked me in the ribcage... they hammered me. They threatened to gang rape my wife, to plant drugs on her, they said they would take me to the desert and cut my throat and leave me there.” He continued: “They kick you awake, make you sit down, then stand up about every 15 minutes.” Mornin also described how he was suspended: “They hung me from bars above the door by my handcuffs so I was just on the balls of my feet for 24 hours at a time. They did that on four occasions.” He said that when he was released he “had to write a thank you note to the king, and sign to say I had not been mistreated.”
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2002/02/05/saudia3721.htm


<hr /></blockquote>




The paint-ball squad, the dirty bomber that never was and now a conviction on a confession obtained under torture.
Makes you feel safe, 'dont it'. /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Q

Deeman3
03-30-2006, 09:50 AM
Q,
You make the same statement but apparently didn't bother to read the article. His family are the ones saying he was tortured, others say he was not. You automatically believe them. All criminals swear their innocence and all their families line up behind them. The jail are full of them and you would release them all.

Conspiring to kill our president, no matter how much it might please the left is a serious crime in our country.

Do the Saudis torture? Yes. Did they torture this man? We don't know.

Deeman

Drop1
03-30-2006, 09:52 AM
What was the proof of a plot,and who did he conspire with? Things smell fishy. The dumb bastard should appeal. In thirty years,he should be able to shop the local WalMart in Iraq.

Qtec
03-30-2006, 11:35 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> Q,
You make the same statement but apparently didn't bother to read the article. <font color="blue"> I certainly did read it! /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif </font color> His family are the ones saying he was tortured, others say he was not. You automatically believe them. All criminals swear their innocence and all their families line up behind them. The jail are full of them and you would release them all. <font color="blue">I never said he was innocent OR guilty because I dont know. Thats not the point. </font color>

Conspiring to kill our president, no matter how much it might please the left is a serious crime in our country. <font color="blue"> someone says you said something- we used to call that hearsay. </font color>

Do the Saudis torture? Yes. Did they torture this man? We don't know.

Deeman <hr /></blockquote>

Read this and tell me what you think.
web page (http://writ.news.findlaw.com/cassel/20050307.html)


Q

Deeman3
03-30-2006, 11:52 AM
I think Elaine Cassel is still a left wing anti Bush basher. Always has been and always will be. As well, the FBI says they have him on tape admitting to helpinh plot an assination attempt on GWB. That's a little stronger than hearsay. They suggest he may have been tortured. No evidence, other than the his family saying this, as I said before.

If he was tortured, he should be tried without that confession as evidence. However, as I also said earlier, anyone can claim torture. It has to have some support, other than hate toward anything the U.S. Government does.

I do beleive the man should have an investigation if there is any evidence of torture or other parts of the investigation. Q, you know if I pulled this very same type stroy from The National Review, it would read completely differently. It seems at most, the best we now have is too far left and too far right.

I would settle for the middle, O'reilly. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Deeman

Gayle in MD
03-30-2006, 12:45 PM
BWA HA HA HA HA....
/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Qtec
03-30-2006, 11:48 PM
Dont shoot the messenger D-man. This isnt partisan- its about the rights of the individual. Consider the facts.
He gets picked up by the Saudis whilst taking his final exams. 20 months later he is still in a Saudi jail, hasnt seen a lawyer, hasnt been charged with anything and the Govt doesnt want to bring him to trial in the US. The family actually had to fight the Govt to get them to arrest their son!so he could at least have his day in court. The Govt actually fought to deny him his right to a fair trail.
Detention without charge used to be the main difference between the West and the USSR. They used to lock people up just for things they said, we in the West had Rights.

As I understand it, the only proof of a plot against GW is because of something that was said, not done! Basically, the kid got 30 years for 'intent'! This story is a cross between Kafka and Orwell!
Was it just talk?
Arent these schools of learning [ any Uni around the world] places where kids talk about changing the world? In the 70,s the Peoples Revolution was very popular! /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
It would be imossible not to come into contact with students who have radical views.[.and I dont think Saudi universities are full of rightwing Christian conservatives!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif]
This kid was abandoned by his Govt and left to rot in a Saudi jail. He was then brought back after almost 2 years and convicted on 'secret evidence' and a confesssion that was possibly obtained under torture.
What ever happened to the presumption of innocence? Is every Muslim a terrorist?

Q..........tommorow, you could be disapeared...and its legal!

Q

HALHOULE
04-01-2006, 03:29 AM
Looks like you are a non-pool related guy according to all your political postings. Interesting.

DickLeonard
04-01-2006, 10:48 AM
Hal Qtec has come to the US to take lessons from the Great Fran Crimi so he is a poolplayer besides having a brain on his head.####

DickLeonard
04-01-2006, 10:53 AM
Deeman Saudia Araba is # 9 on the list of the worst dicataorships in the world. I know they wouldn't torture anyone.####

Fran Crimi
04-01-2006, 03:39 PM
Nah, Q doesn't need lessons from me. He just came to NY to get certified. Now I can say he's certifiable. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Fran

Qtec
04-01-2006, 10:50 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> Nah, Q doesn't need lessons from me. He just came to NY to get certified. Now I can say he's certifiable. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Fran <hr /></blockquote>

...got the certficate to prove it! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif


Actually, my girlfriend thinks I,m a lot like Doug on King of Queens! [ my fav program at the momment]. When watching the show she keeps saying, "thats you...thats you." /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I must admit, there is some similarity. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Q.....likes Doug. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Chopstick
04-02-2006, 07:02 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>
As I understand it, the only proof of a plot against GW is because of something that was said, not done!
<hr /></blockquote>

Under US law, that is a crime, and it comes with jail time. It not only applies to the president but any government official. If you put in writing, or are recorded saying, that you intended to shoot the Postmaster General, you would go to jail.

Qtec
04-02-2006, 07:15 AM
Surely if its a crime [ we dont know exactly what was said]its only a crime to say it in the US, not in S Arabia.
Q

Qtec
04-02-2006, 08:45 AM
Correction- he wasnt charged with making a threat aginst the Pres!


Prosecutors cite plan to kill Bush; family says case is built on torture

BY PAUL BRADLEY
TIMES-DISPATCH STAFF WRITER

Feb 23, 2005
http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD/MGArticle/RTD_BasicArticle&amp;c=MGArticle&amp;cid=1031781131919

ALEXANDRIA -- A former high school valedictorian from Falls Church who had been jailed in Saudi Arabia for nearly two years was accused yesterday of plotting with al-Qaida terrorists to assassinate President Bush.

Ahmed Omar Abu Ali, 23, was named in a six-count federal indictment unsealed moments before he made a brief appearance in a courtroom packed with about 80 supporters and friends.

Spectators who had arrived with hopes that Abu Ali would be released from custody laughed incredulously when U.S. Magistrate Judge Liam O'Grady told the defendant that the indictment alleged he conspired to kill the president. O'Grady ordered Abu Ali held without bond pending a detention hearing tomorrow afternoon.

The judge refused a request by Abu Ali to lift his shirt to display the scars he received from his Saudi interrogators, whom he said repeatedly whipped and tortured him. But he promised the defendant he will give him "latitude to make representations" during the upcoming detention hearing. After court, Abu Ali's lawyer, Edward MacMahon, said he visited with his client and saw the scars.

"We all know that evidence that comes from torture is the most unreliable evidence there is," MacMahon said. "I'm disturbed that the government is willing to use evidence that was gained from torture."

In June 2003, Abu Ali was studying at the University of Medina when Saudi authorities arrested him and 18 other men suspected of involvement in the May 12, 2003, bombing of three Western compounds in Riyadh. The bombing killed 34 people, including nine Americans.

According to the indictment, Abu Ali and one of the men later linked to the Riyadh attacks talked about killing Bush. Court papers said the pair discussed two specific options: Abu Ali would either get close enough to shoot the president on the street or would detonate a car bomb.

The unidentified man -- whom court papers described as a known member of al-Qaida -- later introduced Abu Ali to another conspirator, who conferred a "religious blessing" upon Abu Ali to assassinate Bush, court papers said. A third unnamed conspirator later provided Abu Ali with money to buy a laptop computer and a cell phone to help carry out the assassination, court papers said.

Abu Ali was not charged directly with conspiring to kill the president. Rather, the allegation is included in two criminal counts related to providing material support and resources to terrorists.

"After the devastating terrorist attack and murders of Sept. 11, the defendant turned his back on America and joined the cause of al-Qaida," Paul McNulty, U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, said in a statement. "He now stands charged with some of the most serious charges our nation can bring against supporters of terrorism."

Court papers said a search of the Abu Ali family's house in Falls Church on June 16, 2003, yielded a document on avoiding government surveillance, another document praising the Sept. 11 terror attacks, audio tapes in Arabic promoting violent jihad, and an anti-democracy book written by Ayman al-Zawahiri, Osama bin Laden's top aide.

The indictment said Abu Ali discussed joining al-Qaida and setting up a terror cell in the United States. He also allegedly received training in weapons, explosives and document forgery.

The allegations stunned Abu Ali's friends and family, who described him as a bright young man who willingly involved himself in community service projects. The son of Jordanian immigrants who are naturalized U.S. citizens, Abu Ali was born in Houston and moved to Falls Church in 1985. He graduated at the top of his class from the private Islamic Saudi Academy in the Alexandria section of Fairfax County in 1999.

"The government has lied to us from the very first day," said Abu Ali's father, Omar Abu Ali. "They said all along this was a Saudi case, and now they have changed their story. This indictment was cooked up in the last two weeks."




Abu Ali's family has been fighting for months for his release, charging in a civil lawsuit that U.S. authorities were behind his arrest and detention. Government lawyers sought to have the family's lawsuit dismissed, based on evidence they said must remain secret. The State Department then asked Saudi Arabia to either charge Abu Ali there or allow his return to the United States.

Abu Ali's family said the case was an example of "rendition," a U.S. government practice that sends suspected terrorists for interrogation in other countries where they don't enjoy U.S. legal protections.

After a Feb. 11 hearing, a federal judge in Washington refused to dismiss the civil suit and ordered the Justice Department to produce evidence establishing what role U.S. officials played in Abu Ali's arrest and detention. Now that Abu Ali has been returned to the United States, the civil case likely is moot.

Abu Ali would face a maximum of 80 years in prison if convicted. The charges include conspiracy to provide material support to al-Qaida, providing material support to al-Qaida, conspiracy to provide support to terrorists, providing material support to terrorists and contributing service to al-Qaida. MacMahon said Abu Ali plans to plead innocent to all charges.






If they were so convinced that the guy intended to kill the Pres and had proof- why did they wait 20 months to bring him to trial in the US. And even then it was only because of the lawsuit!p
Is there any real evidence against him?
Did he get a fair trail?

Q