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Terry
03-30-2006, 12:02 PM
I'd like to try and get an interesting thread going on different types of strokes or shots that players use in certain situations. If we could discribe our shots/strokes in words and then put a demo shot on the wei table I think we could have an informative thread.I often found myself shooting off the rail which was uncomfortable too me so I decided to practice these shots. I found that I had more accuracy when I let go of my cue during these types of shots. In the demo shot shown on the wei table I'm holding my cue around the middle of the wrap ( which is a little forward for me ) and I let go of my cue just before contact of the CB and regrab my cue between the end of the wrap and the butt. This stroke has worked well for me. Terry

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Bob_Jewett
03-30-2006, 12:43 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Terry:</font><hr> ... In the demo shot shown on the wei table I'm holding my cue around the middle of the wrap ( which is a little forward for me ) and I let go of my cue just before contact of the CB and regrab my cue between the end of the wrap and the butt. This stroke has worked well for me. ... <hr /></blockquote>
While that may work well for you, I would never suggest this to a beginner as the first possible solution to a problem with that shot. It sounds like you have some mechanical problem that you are "fixing" by adding on another problem.

I think it's better to work on the underlying problem.

slow_roller
03-30-2006, 02:27 PM
Great idea for a thread on different strokes &amp; shots. I've been practicing shooting off the rail also, and I noticed that if I really get low (I'm tall, so I have to bend my knees to get down there) I have a better stroke and make more balls. I might just be getting a better view, but I notice that bending the knees and getting extra low seems to take some of the weight off of my bridge hand, which might be a factor, though I'm not sure why. I cannot comfortably get this low for all shots without getting tired quickly.

Drop1
03-30-2006, 06:54 PM
Really depends on the next ball,but I would use right center english to drive the cue ball into the rail,and out towards the center of the table.

Fran Crimi
03-31-2006, 06:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Terry:</font><hr> ... In the demo shot shown on the wei table I'm holding my cue around the middle of the wrap ( which is a little forward for me ) and I let go of my cue just before contact of the CB and regrab my cue between the end of the wrap and the butt. This stroke has worked well for me. ... <hr /></blockquote>
While that may work well for you, I would never suggest this to a beginner as the first possible solution to a problem with that shot. It sounds like you have some mechanical problem that you are "fixing" by adding on another problem.

I think it's better to work on the underlying problem. <hr /></blockquote>


First of all, the shot is not a shot for a beginner. There is no 'technique for a beginner' to recommend here.

Second, I'm not convinced that what he described isn't more of a technique rather than the cover-up of an underlying problem. I wouldn't consider the fact that we're human and that it's difficult to keep your cue straight in that situation, a flaw. If Terry is able to let go of the cue, thus removing any possibility of negative interference with his back hand during the critical portion of the stroke, then I wouldn't be so quick to consider that as a problem used to fix another problem.

JMO
Fran

Terry
03-31-2006, 08:11 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr>

First of all, the shot is not a shot for a beginner. There is no 'technique for a beginner' to recommend here.

Second, I'm not convinced that what he described isn't more of a technique rather than the cover-up of an underlying problem. I wouldn't consider the fact that we're human and that it's difficult to keep your cue straight in that situation, a flaw. If Terry is able to let go of the cue, thus removing any possibility of negative interference with his back hand during the critical portion of the stroke, then I wouldn't be so quick to consider that as a problem used to fix another problem.

JMO
Fran <hr /></blockquote>


Fran you seen my post as I intended it to be, It was not a recommendation to anyone. I know it sounds like a rough action ( letting go of the cue then regrabbing it ) but it is a smooth and straight stroke for me. Players ask me sometimes at tournaments how would you get from here to there or what would you do in this situation or that but knowone has ever picked up on the fact that I let go of my cue on certain shots or at least they never mentioned it to me. The shot decribed on the wei table is a shot that i'm comfortable with in a tournament and my main goal on that shot would be to just make the ball for the game or to keep my run going, it is a dead on shot and the stroke has to be dead on as well.

I'm hoping more posters will post some more shots/strokes with a text as well as a wei description because I know their are a lot of interesting shots out there. Terry

Stretch
03-31-2006, 11:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Terry:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr>

First of all, the shot is not a shot for a beginner. There is no 'technique for a beginner' to recommend here.

Second, I'm not convinced that what he described isn't more of a technique rather than the cover-up of an underlying problem. I wouldn't consider the fact that we're human and that it's difficult to keep your cue straight in that situation, a flaw. If Terry is able to let go of the cue, thus removing any possibility of negative interference with his back hand during the critical portion of the stroke, then I wouldn't be so quick to consider that as a problem used to fix another problem.

JMO
Fran <hr /></blockquote>


Fran you seen my post as I intended it to be, It was not a recommendation to anyone. I know it sounds like a rough action ( letting go of the cue then regrabbing it ) but it is a smooth and straight stroke for me. Players ask me sometimes at tournaments how would you get from here to there or what would you do in this situation or that but knowone has ever picked up on the fact that I let go of my cue on certain shots or at least they never mentioned it to me. The shot decribed on the wei table is a shot that i'm comfortable with in a tournament and my main goal on that shot would be to just make the ball for the game or to keep my run going, it is a dead on shot and the stroke has to be dead on as well.

I'm hoping more posters will post some more shots/strokes with a text as well as a wei description because I know their are a lot of interesting shots out there. Terry <hr /></blockquote>

Hi Terry! i think this shot might qualify as one of those shots your interested in. I can't set it up on the Wie, but it's easy to describe anyway.

It's for a masse' where you have to do a tight bend around the interfering ball. With the object ball being just on the other side. In essence, a short masse". It dosn't take much, just line up the masse' like you normaly would but instead of driveing down with the backhand just let it fall. The weight of the cue falling is more than enough to pop the cb around in a tight arc. When u feel the cue dropping of it's own accord then you can work on duplicating a "guided drop" so tip placement can be more accurate. Tha's when u really get the nice working spin. I see a lot of players overhitting masse's cause they think they'v got to kill them. St.

Terry
03-31-2006, 12:25 PM
Hey Stretch it's been awhile, I don't do many short masse' shots but i'll give yours a hook to see how it works for me. It sounds a little like the jump shot where you have a short landing strip and you need to use a light jump, some players just want to drive the CB through the slate to get it to hop up and over. I went to the city and got my qualifier in to play provincials so maybe i'll see ya there. Terry

Leviathan
03-31-2006, 12:32 PM
On long shots, I get lower, grip the cue farther back, and use a piston stroke--sometimes modifying this to a prod. On shorter shots, I stand a little more upright and use a pendulum stroke--sometimes modifying this to a gouge or a bunt, with or without a yip.--AS

Bob_Jewett
03-31-2006, 02:47 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> ...
First of all, the shot is not a shot for a beginner. There is no 'technique for a beginner' to recommend here.
<hr /></blockquote>
As shown, the shot is a huge problem for most beginners, but if you put the same shot along the short rail, a beginner should expect to make it. I think the technique for the two shots should not be significantly different.

On shots like that, I make sure my stance is as much like a snooker player's as possible, with my chin on, or nearly on, the cue stick.

jimbojim
04-24-2006, 11:47 PM
wouldn't it be better to practice not having to cue ball frozen on the rail instead? Cueball control is the key!

Scott Lee
04-25-2006, 09:08 AM
On the contrary...cueSTICK control is the ultimate objective...and every player needs a method of being able to accurately, and consitently stroke the CB when it is frozen to, or nearly frozen to a rail. I'm with Bob, on not recommending letting go of the stick during the swing.
However, a natural pendulum swing, to a natural finish position, is highly accurate, repeatable, and desireable, in controlling the stick, and thereby controlling what happens with the OB and CB afterwards.

Scott Lee

Bob_Jewett
04-25-2006, 12:23 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jimbojim:</font><hr> wouldn't it be better to practice not having to cue ball frozen on the rail instead? Cueball control is the key! <hr /></blockquote>
If you are in the middle of a run and you find yourself with this shot(cue ball frozen on the end rail, object ball almost straight in and a mile away), you should consider resigning the game and getting to a practice table as soon as possible.

But I play one pocket, and often my opponent will leave me on the end cushion, hoping to take advantage of my shaking arm and the 4-inch corner pockets. It's not my fault I'm there. I need to be able to deal with it.

Practicing position is a separate issue.

Terry
04-25-2006, 01:57 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr>
If you are in the middle of a run and you find yourself with this shot(cue ball frozen on the end rail, object ball almost straight in and a mile away), you should consider resigning the game and getting to a practice table as soon as possible. <hr /></blockquote>

Hi Bob,

When i'm playing in a tournament and I get a long shot as you described above ( like the one I described at the start of this thread ), I don't run for a practice table because I know I can make the ball because I was already at the practice table. But your right, sometimes a player will get on the rail when they shouldn't and sometimes a player will need to get on the rail for his next shot. A player has to be able to shoot from the jaws of the pocket as well as jacked up over a ball etc. not because they're the ideal spot to shoot from but because sometimes it's just the way it is. Now I know you didn't agree with the way I shoot long shots off the rail and that's fine, I didn't say the way I do it is right or wrong, I just said that's the way I do it. I didn't start this thread to debate my shot, I started it because I thought it was a little different from the usual threads that keep recycling. Terry

BigRigTom
04-25-2006, 02:37 PM
Hi Terry,
I enjoyed reading how you handled your situation in the "Cue ball on the rail" shot at the one ball. Too each his own.

Here is a shot I left myself because I mis-judge the table speed. This was at the APA 8 Ball Singles in Bakersfield a short time ago.

also ...I hope this works...I did it on the new cuetable.com.....
http://CueTable.com/P/?#2GavP4HYhW4IOff3JQUL4KWim2LXLC2MERU2NYmi2OTpK2PV gb2TUqY2phqB#

I also did not concede the game and run to the practice table. I just hit a soft (sort of masse) causing the cue ball to lightly spin left off the rail and chip the 7 ball in the side leaving me a near straight shot on the 8 ball in the other side pocket. This gave me a "Break and Run" as well as the game, put me on the hill and then I hit an "8 ball on the break to win the match 5 to 4.

Made my day!

I am not sure I could ever do it again exactly like that but I do practice that shot and have had occasion to use it a couple of times since. Looks great when it works too... /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

TennesseeJoe
04-26-2006, 04:43 PM
I had trouble with rail shots until I tried a technique from a web site. The web site indicated to drop your elbow (just a little) when contacting the cue ball. This help put high english on the cue straight. Maybe not for the pros but it works for me.

Terry
04-27-2006, 05:46 AM
Hi Tom, it sounds like you made a nice shot there but unfortunately i'm not able to use the new Wei table. I had no problem with the old table but every time I try to open the new table I get a message asking me to " Click to run ActiveX control on this webpage" and every time I either exit that box or click to run it I am left with nothing. Terry

BigRigTom
04-27-2006, 09:56 AM
Terry,
I had a similar problem, I went to the MS Windows update site and downloaded the latest version of Active X controls and once they were installed it worked fine.
Try it

DickLeonard
04-27-2006, 11:51 AM
Terry that was the Irving Crane method of stroking at the cueball. At one time or another almost all players fooled with Crane's throw the cue and Mosconi's slipstroke. Usually by that time in their life it was to late to change to their style of play. ###