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View Full Version : To Quit For Selt Respect(League)



Sid_Vicious
04-01-2006, 05:52 AM
I've never quit a team in all of the 15 or so years I've played them, but considering it today. I won't go into the details concerning a month's suspension I was handed, and I won't elaborate on some internal strife I've dealt with concerning friends/players on the team, but the feeling today is closer to telling me to skate this opportunity of being a member on this very good team. Basically I was of the mindset yesterday that I could accept the sabbatical from league of 4 weeks and grow my game in the interim. This morning I woke to the sober thought of taking care of me and my self respect over this last event of the suspension. My gut talked to me this morning, saying, "Be fair to yourself Sid, don't lay down on yourself, you count."

Why this post? Well I figured there might be someone here with experiences in mid-season quits on a league team due to inner personal considerations. I'm trying to decide just how to work my decision, am I going to go instantly with the decision "for me" or am I going to fester the thought for a while. It's actually been quite the mental ride since I got the word of the month's suspension, beginning with intimidation and acceptance, and ending in self protection for myself. "Do I really need this I ask myself." "Can I find fun in the future if I stay, or will it eventually erode into the friendship, and get into my game even more?" These are all questions I presume that some here may have come across in their own tenure of playing in the league systems over the years.

Anyone have parallels or opinions???sid

randyg
04-01-2006, 06:10 AM
I'm fortunate enough to play on a team of great friends. When one hurts, we all hurt.

Sorry about your situation, in time all things heal. Never turn on a friend in need.....randyg

Cornerman
04-01-2006, 06:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> This morning I woke to the sober thought of taking care of me and my self respect over this last event of the suspension. My gut talked to me this morning, saying, "Be fair to yourself Sid, don't lay down on yourself, you count." <hr /></blockquote>Nobody will particularly like it, but you're your own man. Do what you have to do. In this case, it's not about the team.

As a parallel, one of my teammates (and a good friend) has decided to leave leagues altogether. He made this decision mid-session a few weeks ago. Out team will suffer for it, but we'll survive. I hate it, but I'm not him. He's got his personal reasons, and I respect his personal decision. He's also bypassed our trip to Vegas which he was certainly instrumental in our winning the championship and trip.

Sometimes, leagues just aren't worth it.

Fred

Sid_Vicious
04-01-2006, 08:08 AM
I'll consider the hole I'd make in the Vegas adventure, and yet in my case, I'm not going to be the talent loss like your friend,,,just maybe a difficulty in the head count. With two months left to go, I expect this situation(if it happens) is manageable. I'll lose the season payback, no biggie, and I'll certainly kill an opportunity to share a probable cut in Vegas plus an invite for a future spot on this legacy team, but it's the issue with a friendship which keeps me in turmoil. All in all I simply have a diminished self worth over quickly accepting a reprimand, which became the seed for the morning revelation and the promotion of the post. I find it a strange emotion to deny one's self over the opportunity of playing with a top notch group such as my team mates, an emotion of submission, kinda like, "these are my dues, suck it up", but then a reality check of "Why?, what's this game and league all about if it isn't fun anymore?"

Thanks again for both your and Randy's replies. I will continue to study all of the aspects for the future and gauge the answer carefully, especially if quitting would seriously affect the team. That's the beauty in this forum we have here on the CCB,,,there are social differences amongst us, but in all of my years of being here, I've never found a lack of billiard related concern for personal strife when presented. You couldn't get that on AZ or any other site I've visited....sid

Leviathan
04-01-2006, 08:31 AM
Sorry you're having the grief. You've always come across as a conscientious person with a lot of integrity.

From here, it looks like this: If it's a situation where you need to get out to preserve your integrity, then you know what to do. If you want to quit just to spare yourself some personal aggravation, then maybe the "integrity" move is to do what you think is best for the others on your team.

--AS

dave
04-01-2006, 09:17 AM
Not knowing the details, I'd finish out the session to minimize any damage to the team, their point standings, and my friendships. Then I'd drop off and not play again the next session. That way you've treated the team with integrity, regardless of who's right or wrong, and still maintain your own self-respect while moving on to satisfy your personal feelings. Just an opinion.

Fran Crimi
04-01-2006, 09:19 AM
Fred,

I've never played on a team so I'm not familiar with team dynamics, but why do people get suspended? I've never heard of such a thing. Sounds serious to me.

Fran

JPB
04-01-2006, 10:47 AM
During your month off read Harry Browne's book How To be Free In An Unfree World. I may have the title slightly wrong. Get on amazon and order it immediately. The ONLY consideration here is yourself. You are in all kinds of traps right now and IMO thinking about the wrong things. WTF is a suspension from a team? I would probably walk with no notice and never speak to the people again. But it is hard to say without knowing all the details. In any event, you need to take care of yourself and yourself alone. Figure out how to do that. Also IMO, pool is an individual sport and that is why we are drawn to it. Mixing teams with an individual sport doesn't work for me. Works for some, btu recognize what you are doing. First tho, read the Browne book. Seriously.

Sid_Vicious
04-01-2006, 10:58 AM
I'll elaborate a little Fran. League in Dallas has the incentive of free practice time during certain hours, and in this case it was after the league matches were completed that I and a non-league player decided to match up on one of the open tables. I sternly said to the non-L player, because I was alerted earlier in the season by the LD, that he had to go to the bar and get on the clock, so off he went in that direction, so I took it for granted he had done as I instructed. That was on Wednesday, I closed out my tab that evening, uneventful without anyone barking at me from management, I figured everyone had done things properly. Well I was informed Saturday by my captain that the LD had made the suspension. My feelings are that it was the PH's staff who should have either hit me with the time on the guy(if he had not put himself on the clock) or more importantly they should have approached him themselves in real time. After all, that's their job with the daily patrons. Still the LD made the call to hit me with the infraction instead of gathering all of the facts, hence my suspension. In retrospect I maybe should have gone to the bar manager myself to say the guy was joining me and to put him on time, but as I said, I trusted that he had done that after I dictated the need and he headed toward that area. I am today slighted because it all came back on top of me. At first I was submissive upon hearing the news from my captain, "It's not worth trouble, I can work on the game for 4 weeks" but today the feeling of personal insult, if you will, has begun to poke at my pride. Whether it is justifiable to feel this way or not, I just think it could have been handled better being I'm a 10-15 year veteran of that PH and played numerous seasons with this LD. That's it in a nutshell...sid~~~panties in a wad but will get over it

Billy_Bob
04-01-2006, 11:01 AM
I have had opportunities open up for me due to good sportsmanship, being friendly to other players, etc.

Mostly this is being asked to be on the best teams. This is also because of my good playing, however there are other better players who were not asked because of this or that.

Because of this, I have been exposed to better players who have helped me to become a better player.

So I would keep the future in mind. Don't burn any bridges if this would hurt you in the future.

Perhaps there is a way for you to save "face" (or do what you feel is right) *and* not burn any bridges?

Snapshot9
04-01-2006, 11:11 AM
Sid ... I can certainly understand some of your turmoil, but hard to evaluate a situation without details. You, ultimately, have to decide what's best for yourself first, and the team next.
If you are a 'B' player on an 'A' team, I can understand some of the pressures. As teams become better, competition comes to the forefront, and fun is had when winning. Competitive teams do not like to lose.
The best players always make sure they are on a 'good' team, one without players that will end them up in 3rd or 4th place instead of 1st or 2nd. To them, carrying someone who can not cut it is a waste of time, and some players depend on league payouts and tournament money.
When you get to Vegas, any weakness in the team shows up, especially from players not really skilled enough for the big stage, or seasoned enough. Players have a tendency to get upset when they see their teams dreams go down the tubes because one of their players can not make a simple out or chokes on a shot that is not hard.
Do what is best for yourself.

dg-in-centralpa
04-01-2006, 11:18 AM
Sid, you've got to be kidding!?! Suspension for that? Your LD must be a tyrant. It was up to the N-L player to put himself on the clock, or at the least, the staff should have collected the money from you when you settled on your tab. You can play on my team anytime you want, just come north. I guarantee you'll have a better time and it doesn't matter how bad or how good you shoot, everyone gets treated the same. The punishment doesn't fit the crime. How does your captain feel? Can't you protest and give your side of the story? I agree that it's not wise to burn bridges, but this takes the fun out of it.

DG

Snapshot9
04-01-2006, 12:52 PM
Sid ... My apologies for my first post. This is a different matter altogether. What friggin difference does it make if the time gets paid, whether by you or the other guy?
That LD is off base to me, and needs to take a public relations course ...

onepocketfanatic
04-01-2006, 02:16 PM
The punishment seems a little heavy handed IMHO. I play on a leaguee and we go to Vegas every year. There are 3 main core players that have been together for about 6 years, and we are not only team mates, we are very good friends.
My main thought is that when league stops being fun, I will find something else. My second thought is that in my situation, since my team mates are good friends, it really has little to do with the quality of the team, but it is more about friendship and comradery. I don't let the a$$es in the league affect me having fun since no matter what you do, you are always going to have some of them around (and that includes people that run the league as well).

tateuts
04-01-2006, 02:36 PM
Sid, don't screw yourself by quitting. Your first instinct was the correct one. Take the month off and work on your game. My suggestion is that you show up for all you league games too and root for your team.

Once the facts of your situation come out, your fellow members can decide for themselves whether or not you should have been suspended. It doesn't sound fair to me.

I think your teammates will respect you a lot if you quietly accept your suspension and not let it dampen your spirit too much.

I respect people who can "take the heat" and bounce back. Sounds like it's time for you to do that.

Chris

Rich R.
04-01-2006, 02:44 PM
Sid, after reading the details, I can understand why you are upset.
First of all, the non-league player screwed you, by not putting himself on the clock.
Next, the LD is being ridiculous, with a one month suspension for this infraction.
However, if you quit your team, you are punishing people who have nothing to do with this situation. If you have any respect for your teamates, you should return and finish this session. If you choose not to continue after that, so be it. JMHO.

Drop1
04-01-2006, 06:20 PM
Sid talk to the other members,and see if you get any support. If you get some support from your team mates,do the time. Later you can ask the LD for a private moment,and run down the entire event leading to the suspension. Tell him you plan to continue playing for your self, your team mates,and your self respect.

JPB
04-01-2006, 09:37 PM
well, now it makes just slightly more sense. I would finish out the year and not play in that league anymore. Never speak to the LD again. If it was your captain who did something that moronic it would be quit immediately time. but get your money out of it and finish with the team.

Qtec
04-01-2006, 10:37 PM
Sid, if you get free time , its up to YOU to inform the staff that you are playing with someone who has to pay. The golden rule of free time is that the table is your responsibility.
I think the suspension is a bit harsh but you were warned. I reckon they should have at least spoken to you first.
Look at it from the owners point of view and the LDs. In this case it seems that the free time is a privilage that the LD has gotten from the owner. The LD doesnt want to jeapordize this privilage and in this case niether you or the other guy informed the staff, so he has to be strict. He [the owner ]doesnt mind giving free time but what do think will happen if he thinks the privilage is being abused?
[ The good news is, its a mistake you will only make once. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif]


I think the severity of the ban more for the owners benefit, [ ie the LD showing the owner that he meavs business]than as a punishment against you personally. Its a warning for others.
My advice is have a talk with the owner and the LD. Tell them your side of the story but accept that it was your mistake. You should have put him on the clock or at least checked that he was. That will clear the air and pretty soon things will be back to normal. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Qtec......free time for the last 20 years /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif.lucky me..so I am an expert /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Vicki
04-02-2006, 05:51 AM
Sorry, but if all that's hurt are your feelings/ego/pride, even if you're not having a good time anymore, I think you should follow through on your commitment to your team. Then you can take some guilt-free time off that won't damage your friendships with your teammates. My #1 rule, don't burn bridges even when other people are burning theirs. My .02.

SpiderMan
04-03-2006, 08:15 AM
QT,

That's a very insightful look at it, and one with which I'm inclined to agree. I also have a history with the LD, and he's one of the best guys in the business. Most likely he did need to show the owner/manager that he would take care of problems such as this, and would not play favorites, even for members of his #1 team.

SpiderMan

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Sid, if you get free time , its up to YOU to inform the staff that you are playing with someone who has to pay. The golden rule of free time is that the table is your responsibility.
I think the suspension is a bit harsh but you were warned. I reckon they should have at least spoken to you first.
Look at it from the owners point of view and the LDs. In this case it seems that the free time is a privilage that the LD has gotten from the owner. The LD doesnt want to jeapordize this privilage and in this case niether you or the other guy informed the staff, so he has to be strict. He [the owner ]doesnt mind giving free time but what do think will happen if he thinks the privilage is being abused?
[ The good news is, its a mistake you will only make once. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif]


I think the severity of the ban more for the owners benefit, [ ie the LD showing the owner that he meavs business]than as a punishment against you personally. Its a warning for others.
My advice is have a talk with the owner and the LD. Tell them your side of the story but accept that it was your mistake. You should have put him on the clock or at least checked that he was. That will clear the air and pretty soon things will be back to normal. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Qtec......free time for the last 20 years /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif.lucky me..so I am an expert /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif <hr /></blockquote>

supergreenman
04-03-2006, 10:52 AM
Hey Sid, I can totally relate. I'm fortunate in the fact that our season just ended last week and I don't have to quit mid-season (although I considered it more than once). In the end, I stayed because I knew that if I quit there were members on the team that would suffer because of it.

Part of my headaches this year with league was because of people that made a commitement to the team and then quit leaving us in a pinch so I agree with the above poster that said you should honor your committments. It is only 2 months after all(well one /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif )

I already hava a new team put together for next year and have made sure that the people on the team were like-minded and have similar goals(like showing up every week and being on time).

Not knowing your situation or what has made you consider quitting, I don't have a lot of advise to offer other than, if it's not fun, why are you doing it?

And I have to admit I'm curious to how someone gets suspended from league play for something that happens outside of league play. That's something I've never heard of before.

James

Sid_Vicious
04-03-2006, 12:12 PM
The team head count has allowed the flexibility of the captain to alter the rotation system and not play a scheduled play who's sat out the week before, so the only impact I could really see on the team is if there is a hole made in the qualified roster for Vegas in June. There have been certain aspects of the way things have been done up to this point, plus the added sting of the suspension...well fun us getting damn hard to find...sid

RonMont
04-04-2006, 04:03 PM
Hi Sid, long time.
I have quit the apa league several times. The most recent was for 2 years. I just started again this session. I have never quit on a team but rather at the end of session. I would suggest the same to you. Good luck anyway, Ron.

hhilario
04-06-2006, 08:39 AM
DonŽt quit. If you get the support from your teammates youŽll lose more by getting out than doinŽ your time.

I believe the punishment was way of limits but there was an agreement in which you accepted any penalty if rules were violated. Sometimes good guys pay bad ones dues.

Humble yourself and (without bitting your tounge) talk to the LD, not to make him change his mind but to let him know how you feel.

Everyone admires people who smile when things go great but they imitate those who smile when things go bad!

OldieToo
04-09-2006, 11:17 AM
Suck it up and quit being a self pityful whiner. Tell the league director to stick his decision up his a** and tell him to get to the REAL problem...Clicks and their imcompetent staff. /ccboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif