PDA

View Full Version : Using other players equipment?



Terry
04-06-2006, 12:59 PM
I was playing in our local tournament last night when I was faced with a sistuation I didn't really like. I was waiting to play in the B-side finals and the match I was waitng for went hill-hill, anyway they were having a saftey battle at the first of the game when one player asked me if he could borrow my jump cue. I knew both players and the one looking to borrow my cue was the stronger of the two and he lived about 100 or so miles down the road and the other player lived in the same town as me. It didn't matter to me which player I would face in the next match but I think every player should have his/her own gear. I loaned the jumper to the guy and told him he should buy one of his own because players should be using their own equipment. Buddy jumps the obstructing ball and ends up fluking the 9-ball to win the match which made me feel like it was my fault the other player lost. I'm now feeling like I shouldn't have given him my jumper, he told me he would've borrowed someone elses if he couldn't use mine. Terry

pooltchr
04-06-2006, 01:19 PM
If he had borrowed someone else's, you wouldn't be second guessing yourself today.
Steve

Barbara
04-06-2006, 01:46 PM
Terry,

IMO, if the guy needs to play with a jump cue, he should bring his own.

In one of my tournaments, a player arrived without her cues which had gotten lost as baggage on a flight. I let her borrow my jump cue (and found out it really does work /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif ) because it wasn't her fault that she didn't have her equipment with her. But if someone asked me to borrow a jump cue - a player that I know who knows how to jump - I'd have to turn down their request because they should be prepared to play.

Barbara

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Terry:</font><hr> I was playing in our local tournament last night when I was faced with a sistuation I didn't really like. I was waiting to play in the B-side finals and the match I was waitng for went hill-hill, anyway they were having a saftey battle at the first of the game when one player asked me if he could borrow my jump cue. I knew both players and the one looking to borrow my cue was the stronger of the two and he lived about 100 or so miles down the road and the other player lived in the same town as me. It didn't matter to me which player I would face in the next match but I think every player should have his/her own gear. I loaned the jumper to the guy and told him he should buy one of his own because players should be using their own equipment. Buddy jumps the obstructing ball and ends up fluking the 9-ball to win the match which made me feel like it was my fault the other player lost. I'm now feeling like I shouldn't have given him my jumper, he told me he would've borrowed someone elses if he couldn't use mine. Terry <hr /></blockquote>

DickLeonard
04-06-2006, 02:14 PM
Terry I think the answer should be ask your opponent to borrow his if he won't let you borrow his I would take that to mean I shouldn't let you borrow mine.####

Rich R.
04-06-2006, 07:04 PM
Recently, at Valley Forge, the table I was playing on had no mechanical bridge. I have my own bridge head, which I use on my break cue. Rather than make my opponent borrow a bridge from another table, I let him use mine.
I lost. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

bsmutz
04-07-2006, 09:35 AM
Call me old fashioned or nuts if you want, but I like to treat people as I would want to be treated. I bring a jump/break cue when I go out to play and I never have a problem letting someone borrow it. I can't say that this philosophy works out for the best all the time (I have a few tools that I've either had to throw away or I can look at and say to myself, "Oh yeah, so and so borrowed that, that's why it's broken.") But I figure we're all on this trip together and I'm happy to do anything I can to help a brother along. I certainly wouldn't feel that I did something wrong if I was in your shoes. We all know there's some luck involved in the game. I was taught manners when I was a kid and if I was the other guy, I would never have put you in that position. Bad sportsmanship and bad form to go looking for equipment to borrow (unless it's chalk or a bridge from another table) in the middle of a game in my opinion. Much better to make an arrangement with someone before the match begins or in between games.

ryushen21
04-07-2006, 09:52 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> Terry I think the answer should be ask your opponent to borrow his if he won't let you borrow his I would take that to mean I shouldn't let you borrow mine.#### <hr /></blockquote>

This tends to be the policy that i stick to. I ask my opponent to borrow his. If he says no then i don't try to get one from anyone else. But i have no problem lending my cue to an opponent. And if someone asks me to borrow mine, i always make sure that their opponent doesn't have a problem with that.

SPetty
04-07-2006, 10:44 AM
I was watching a fellow named Bobby Pickle in Vegas a few years ago. During his match, his opponent left him with a shot he could only jump at, but alas, Bobby had no jump cue. He asked his opponent if he would wait while Bobby went to buy a jump cue! It was funny. His opponent said sure, he'd wait, but then offered to let him use his, and Bobby agreed. I'm sorry now that I don't remember whether Bobby was successful in his jump attempt or not.

Sid_Vicious
04-07-2006, 10:49 AM
I worry about a lot of things, but having someone beat me with a borrowed JC of mine is not one of them. It's nice to be nice...sid

Terry
04-07-2006, 11:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> I worry about a lot of things, but having someone beat me with a borrowed JC of mine is not one of them. It's nice to be nice...sid <hr /></blockquote>

Sid I wasn't worring about him beating me with my own JC. Like I said, it didn't matter to me which player won the match,( I was playing the winner ). I just didn't want to be a facter in the match. Terry

Terry
04-07-2006, 11:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr> Terry,

IMO, if the guy needs to play with a jump cue, he should bring his own.

In one of my tournaments, a player arrived without her cues which had gotten lost as baggage on a flight. I let her borrow my jump cue (and found out it really does work /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif ) because it wasn't her fault that she didn't have her equipment with her. But if someone asked me to borrow a jump cue - a player that I know who knows how to jump - I'd have to turn down their request because they should be prepared to play.

Barbara

<hr /></blockquote>

Barbara, I feel the same way as you about borrowing someone elses equipment but I still didn't want to say no although I let him know how I felt about it in a nice way.

Last year at the world juniors in Austria the airlines didn't get my daughters cues there in time and another player ( from Japan ) shared her cues with my daughter the first day which was warmups. The organizers told me they would get her cues as close to her own as they could if hers didn't show up by tournament time, they showed up the folling night. Terry

Terry
04-07-2006, 11:38 AM
I'll try to respond to some of the other comments in one reply. I like to be competive when I play so I focus on the job at hand and don't have converstions when i'm in a match. I also like to show respect for the other players and will talk to anybody when i'm not in a match or gearing up for a match. I also carry a bridge head in my case which I wouldn't mind letting any player use because that's sopposed to be part of the rooms equipment anyway but I think players should bring their own cuing equipment. I was playing in a tournament last night in a town about 30 miles away from here. One of the players there who (I talked with many times) is very interested in the game and improving his game. I noticed his shaft (314 predator) is in poor condition, it was dirty from chalk way beyond what a shaft should be and the tip was too small for the ferule. I offered to take his cue home with me and clean it up and put a new tip on for him and bring it back next week. The point is that I like helping people but I don't want to be part of the reason one player beats another player by giving one player equipment they don't have her advice during a match they could use. Terry

Sid_Vicious
04-07-2006, 12:30 PM
I apologize but I'm still confused. Weren't you eluding to the fact of loaning him your equipment and then losing with the loaned equipment? What does "I just didn't want to be a facter in the match." mean? sid

Terry
04-07-2006, 01:04 PM
Sid, I loaned him my jump cue while he was playing another player, which helped him win that match for which the winner was going to face me in the NEXT match. I then beat him in the following match but the point was " I didn't want help either player win or lose their match in any way". Terry

Sid_Vicious
04-07-2006, 04:04 PM
I missed that fact. I'd feel much the same..sid

Fran Crimi
04-07-2006, 04:38 PM
That's a very uncomfortable situation to be put in. I wouldn't hesitate to say yes if the person was a friend of mine who I knew wasn't a mooch. Some people don't want to spend the money on a jump cue and they figure that they can just borrow one whenever they need one. If I don't know the person well enough, and think that they might be a mooch, the answer is no.

As for affecting the outcome of the match, it's up to the TD to decide if borrowing equipment is allowed. If you're hesitating because of affecting the outcome of the match, then you should tell him to get a ruling from the TD if it's allowed. Lay the burdon on the TD which is where it belongs, and not on you.

Fran

walt8880
04-07-2006, 06:24 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr>
As for affecting the outcome of the match, it's up to the TD to decide if borrowing equipment is allowed. If you're hesitating because of affecting the outcome of the match, then you should tell him to get a ruling from the TD if it's allowed. Lay the burdon on the TD which is where it belongs, and not on you.

Fran

<hr /></blockquote>

Fran -

Very good point which I had not thought of. For a tournament, you are exactly right and the TD should decide if it is allowed.

On the other hand, the lender will still have to make the decision to lend his/her equipment, regardless of the TD ruling.

AndreaWilson
04-07-2006, 06:56 PM
Hi Terry. I like to look at the equipment available to the opponent. If they are sitting with a smug smile on their face with a jump cue in their arsenal and not offering it, I am quite happy to loan mine. If not, then I agree, it is touchy. Now I generally try to avoid lending my equipment though, as my shooter doesn't have a sealed wrap and I loaned it once to a friend with sweatty palm syndrome. I was disgusted by the soggy mess I got back and had the wrap redone. If someone disrespects my equipment, they will never lay hands on it again. As a rule, when asked, if I have to sit and think about it, the answer should be no otherwise I am likely trying to justify it. That leaves the door open for regrets.

Snapshot9
04-08-2006, 05:42 AM
I have loaned a Break or Jump cue to a friend for a shot, usually not for an entire match though, as I usually need them.

I have even loaned my jump cue to a friend that I was playing, but I do not loan my equipment to people that are not close friends or to a stranger.
I might add that most people using a jump cue they are not used to for the first time, usually does not have good results for them, due to different weight, maybe a phenolic tip vs. a leather tip, etc..

Fran Crimi
04-08-2006, 06:18 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Very good point which I had not thought of. For a tournament, you are exactly right and the TD should decide if it is allowed.

On the other hand, the lender will still have to make the decision to lend his/her equipment, regardless of the TD ruling.
<hr /></blockquote>

Well, maybe not. The potential lender could just say to the shooter that he doesn't want to get involved in anyone's match and that maybe the TD could help him find a jump cue. It's not the perfect solution but at least it gives an out to the person being put on the spot. I'd rather see the TD get involved in helping the player find a jump cue. Let him accept responsibility for his call rather than put the burdon on the other players.

Fran

Deeman3
04-08-2006, 06:35 AM
I actually loaned my jump cue to an opponent. It was a little selfish as I'd seen the guy try and jump before and he had a fairly easy kick (IMO). I offered when he said, "I wish I'd brought my jump cue!" He fouled and I can't remember the out come of the match but I would do it again. I would not in a match I am neutral on.

Deeman

walt8880
04-08-2006, 06:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Very good point which I had not thought of. For a tournament, you are exactly right and the TD should decide if it is allowed.

On the other hand, the lender will still have to make the decision to lend his/her equipment, regardless of the TD ruling.
<hr /></blockquote>

Well, maybe not. The potential lender could just say to the shooter that he doesn't want to get involved in anyone's match and that maybe the TD could help him find a jump cue. It's not the perfect solution but at least it gives an out to the person being put on the spot. I'd rather see the TD get involved in helping the player find a jump cue. Let him accept responsibility for his call rather than put the burdon on the other players.

Fran <hr /></blockquote>

Fran -

You're right that the TD sould take the responsibility. However, when the potential lender says that he does not want to get involved in someone else's match, he is just politely saying "no."

Fran Crimi
04-08-2006, 07:24 AM
Of course, everything we do or say involves making decisions. But what I'm suggesting here is basically to say to the person asking, "Look, you shouldn't be asking me and I shouldn't be put in the position to be making that choice. That's something you need to sort out with the TD."

If the TD want's to allow 'borrowing' then maybe he should keep a spare jump cue handy for all the borrowers. Let the TD figure it out. If I were the TD, I'd say no borrowing, period, unless there are special circumstances that the TD sees as allowable. You play with what you show up with. That takes the burdon off of the other players who shouldn't have to be dealing with that in the first place just because they come to the tournament equipped to play.

Or maybe how about no borrowing during a match? Make all your arrangements ahead of time, not when the shot comes up and you need a jump cue.

Fran

DickLeonard
04-08-2006, 11:21 AM
Fran I thought I heard that they were going to do away with
jump cues at least the half cues.####

Fran Crimi
04-08-2006, 04:54 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> Fran I thought I heard that they were going to do away with
jump cues at least the half cues.#### <hr /></blockquote>

Gee, I don't know, ####. I guess it depends on the association. I doubt the WPBA would do away with jump cues, or were you just referring to men? I don't know what the various men's organizations are up to.

Fran