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View Full Version : Why can`t they demonstrate in Mexico



Vagabond
04-10-2006, 04:49 PM
Why can`t these criminals demonstrate against their leaders back home in Mehico and other pigpen countries and demand for jobs,better health care and better living conditions. /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif

pooltchr
04-10-2006, 05:11 PM
The way it's going, the only people left in Mexico are going to be the American tourists! /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Steve

Vagabond
04-10-2006, 05:18 PM
that is a good one and u made mecrack up. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Drop1
04-10-2006, 06:32 PM
The students of Mexico were gunned down in 1968 by the Mexican army. They would have no problem doing it again. I wonder why does Mexico have a military force,are they going to attack the United States,or fend off Guatamala? The criminals are in Mexico city as well. All of this could be stopped if our leaders had the will.

9 Ball Girl
04-10-2006, 07:09 PM
I know people tend to think of immigrants as Mexicans, and unfortunately, that is pure ignorance. There are Mexicans, Dominicans, Cubans, South Americans as well as <font color="red">Irish, Italian, British, Canadian, Israeli, Russian, Greek</font color>, Indian, Egyptian, Palestinian, Jamaican, Trinidadian, Guyanese, Haitians, Australian, African--and the list goes on and on. Come to think of it, the U.S. was and always will be made up of immigrants in some way or another.

<font color="red">(this group as well as others camouflage well in the States because they don't have the Latino look)</font color>

And it's MeXico, not MeHico.

Wendy&lt;---still loves Vag but this is a subject that's really sore for me...

Gayle in MD
04-10-2006, 08:48 PM
Bush LOVES Fox. He also loves being able to let his corporate buddies exploit this cheap labor. It is a disgrace! These people were exploited in their own country, and then they come here and they are exloited here. I say if they are here, pay them the going wage for any particular vocation. If we just did that, made that a law, and closed the borders, atleast we could have some control over ths situation. The way it is now, we have no National Security at all, Bush makes me ill everytime he talks about protecting America, HA HA HA....he could give a (*&amp;^!

Gayle in Md,

nAz
04-10-2006, 10:48 PM
Wendy

"The unprecedented growth of legal and illegal immigration to the US in the 1990s was dominated by flows from Latin America, which were the source of more than 70 percent of new legal immigrants and 90 percent of illegals. Mexico and Central America were the most important source countries"

John Price


From what i Understand 70% of illegals from latin America come from Mexico... ILLIGALLY

/ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Last I heard Elise Island didn't have them in their log book.

9 Ball Girl
04-11-2006, 07:26 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nAz:</font><hr>From what i Understand 70% of illegals from latin America come from Mexico... ILLIGALLY]<hr /></blockquote>So this makes it okay to be deragotory towards them?

Chopstick
04-11-2006, 10:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Vagabond:</font><hr> that is a good one and u made mecrack up. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Like that one? Well here's a Flarda one for ya.

How come there are no swimming pools in Cuba?

Cause all the Cubans that can swim are here. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

OK, I am going to hide under my desk now while 9bawlgurl throws a book at me. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Lester
04-11-2006, 03:00 PM
You're absolutely right Wendy. This nation was built on hard work by immigrants. The problem is the "illegal" part of the equation. The 11 million illegal immigrants that are already here deserve a chance at citizenship, they've worked for it. But Mexico's economy is such that a mass population threatens to overrun our border and wreck our economy. Somehow this needs to be measured so our school systems, social services, and welfare and healthcare don't get wrecked. JMHO

Vagabond
04-11-2006, 03:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 9 Ball Girl:</font><hr> <hr /></blockquote>

Hi wendy,
Today one female caller with mexican background called Rush Limbaugh on his radio show and accused Limbaugh of not liking and not wanting `Hispanics`to be in this country.Limbaugh told her that he never said that but admitted to saying that those people entered this country illegally and hence are criminals.I maitain the same position and I will not stop calling those who entered a sovereign country with out appropriate authorization as criminals.
by the way in one of my posts I did mention about illegals from other countries in Boston and it`s suburbs.
wendy,u should get offended if I talk bad about Latinos and I did not do that.I am only talking about the Latinos that invaded a sovereign nation.U must be a US citizen to be in the Federal service and I assume that u are a citizen of USA.Infact you should join me in criticising those criminals.take care /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Lester
04-11-2006, 03:03 PM
The only problem with paying them the going wage is they would be out of a job. Most of the employers that hire them can't afford to pay the minimum wage, that's why they hire "illegals" so they can pay them under the table.

9 Ball Girl
04-11-2006, 07:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Vagabond:</font><hr><hr /></blockquote>Hi Vag, I understand where everyone is coming from--on both sides--it just urks/urked me when people are treated as sub-humans when we're all the same. Having said that, I will always get offended when any one Latin group is singled out because being of Latin descent, I fall into that category. In addition, I will also get offended when any one group outside of Latinos gets singled out because I also fall into that category as well. Humans.

You take care too. /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

pooltchr
04-11-2006, 08:03 PM
Wendy,
While I am sure they are bigots who hate specific ethnic groups, I think most of us are outraged at the ILLEGAL aliens from any country. Unfortunately, it is estimated that roughly 70% of the illegals in this country today are latinos. That makes them the largest and easiest to target. The fact that they are taking to the streets here to DEMAND rights just makes it that much worse. They (the illegals) are making it that much harder on everyone, but particularly those who would do as your family did and come here legally.
If you recall after 9/11 there was a strong anti-muselum sentiment in the country. Many thought that the muselum community needed to speak out against the terrorists. When they didn't, it just made it worse. I can see the same thing starting here again. Those who have come here legally need to come out against the illegals rather than join them in the streets demanding rights. You already have all the rights of a citizen because your family made the right choices. If illegals have any rights at all, why bother having any immigration laws at all? Where would America be if we just opened up the boarders to anyone who decided they wanted to be here? Unfortunately, we may be on the brink of learning the answer to that last question.
It's not about any race...it's all about abiding by the laws of this country...and the first one is to become legal if you want to be here.
I lived in south Florida for a few years, and some of the nicest people I knew, worked with, partied with, had over to my home were Hispanic. They were also legal residents. That's the issue we have to deal with.
Steve

Vagabond
04-12-2006, 04:54 AM
Wendy&lt;---still loves Vag but this is a subject that's really sore for me... <hr /></blockquote>

Wendy,
I thought u love nAz
nAz is my friend.Are u trying to set me up for a fight with nAz ?/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

DickLeonard
04-12-2006, 06:32 AM
9 ball girl. The last I read they were only allowing 1000 Irish a year into the country, they wanted to load the country with Middle Easterns. Of course things are so good in Ireland that they can't get the 1000 to fill out the list.####

DickLeonard
04-12-2006, 06:36 AM
9 ball girl. Wendy well said.####

9 Ball Girl
04-12-2006, 07:11 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr><hr /></blockquote>Hi Steve!

Unfortunately, there will always be bigots but that's a whole other issue.

I do understand how people feel about illegal immigrants demanding the same rights that we have, but damn it, there are illegal immigrants out there who have been here for years doing the right thing as far as working, providing for their families, etc. Those are the ones that I feel that yes, they should receive amnesty. Now of course, you have the fcuk ups which we can do without because this country has enough fcuk ups as is, but unfortunately, with the good come the bad. Those are the ones that I can see folks not wanting here.

If we were to get rid of all illegals, be it Latinos, Asians, Europeans, etc., I think this country would suffer economically.

9 Ball Girl
04-12-2006, 07:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Vagabond:</font><hr> Wendy,
I thought u love nAz
nAz is my friend.Are u trying to set me up for a fight with nAz ?/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>I luv nAz but he's on my caca list right now.

Gayle in MD
04-12-2006, 07:20 AM
I don't agree with your assertion that most employers who hire them can't afford to pay the minimum wage. The majority hired work ultimately for huge Corporations. My point is that they are here illegally, being paid under the table, and no matter what Bush says, they DO take jobs away from legal American Citizens. If they were paid the going minimum wage, atleast Americans who want those same jobs would be competing on a fair playing field for the jobs.

This issue bothers me not only because the right is putting out totally false information regarding how many are here, and how it is negatively impacting our economy, for the lower and middle class, atleast, but mostly because I see a trend of lawlessness, in many areas, from our elections, illegal immigration, to even our treaty aggreements, Rules of War, and Constitutional rights.

I think it is completely irresponsible to look at this issue in any other terms than, WHAT IS THE LAW....and why aren't we enforcing it. So what if we can't send them all back, send back the ones you can cull out, and do it with vigor. Build the damn fense, and secure this country. Get the hell out of Iraq, and get bin Laden, and al Qaeda. This administration has worsened every single important issue we face, from terrorism, to security, to illegal alieans, to international support.

Since Bush has been in office, especially since his statements in his last State Of The Union address, regarding illegals.....(And breaking the law himself on a regular basis) the trend of accepting lawlessness has grown. We have arrested more illegals every year since his push for illegal alien worker programs, forty percent more this year, than when he gave them his invitation to sneak in here andexpect some kind of legal-illegal alien worker program, and they are only one third of those who make it over and never get arrested. Everyone in the world wants to live in America, naturally, it's the greatest country in the world, but coming in illegally, should not be confused with immigration, they are two completely different issues. Immigrants are people who come here lawfully, and they are of every race and culture. Illegal immigrants are law breakers, criminals. I don't give a damn how nice they might be, where they came from, or how hard they work, they are still criminals for breaking our laws. You don't reward criminals! And Bush looks the other way for his corporate friends who are exploiting cheap labor. Those who employ these people illegally should get the most stringent punishment, hefty fines, and jail time. They are undermining our economy, for their own personal gain, as they exploit the poor.

Gayle in Md.

Rich R.
04-12-2006, 08:22 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 9 Ball Girl:</font><hr> there are illegal immigrants out there who have been here for years doing the right thing as far as working, providing for their families, etc. Those are the ones that I feel that yes, they should receive amnesty. <hr /></blockquote>These people are to be commended, for taking care of their families, however, doesn't a blanket amnesty for all illegal aliens cheapen the efforts and hard work of those who came to this country legally. Many waited years for the opportunity. To give amnesty to those who could not wait their turn is just wrong and it is a slap in the face to those who did it right.

9 Ball Girl
04-12-2006, 09:24 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> These people are to be commended, for taking care of their families, however, doesn't a blanket amnesty for all illegal aliens cheapen the efforts and hard work of those who came to this country legally. Many waited years for the opportunity. To give amnesty to those who could not wait their turn is just wrong and it is a slap in the face to those who did it right. <hr /></blockquote>I agree with you Rich and a blanket amnesty should not be the answer. And to tell you the truth, I don't know which slap in the face would sting more: would it be the one that you mentioned, or would it be the one of those that are born here and are on public assitance while we work our butts off? It really is a mess.

9 Ball Girl
04-12-2006, 09:27 AM
Hi Gayle! Can you elaborate, for example, which jobs, even if they were minimum wage, are being taken away from legal American citizens? (I'm not asking this question to be petty either 'cause you know I ain't that type! LOL)

nAz
04-12-2006, 09:38 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 9 Ball Girl:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Vagabond:</font><hr> Wendy,
I thought u love nAz
nAz is my friend.Are u trying to set me up for a fight with nAz ?/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>I luv nAz but he's on my caca list right now. <hr /></blockquote>

Caca? whats that a new Mehican taco stuffing? /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

SPetty
04-12-2006, 10:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> The majority hired work ultimately for huge Corporations. <hr /></blockquote>I have a hard time believing this. Why do you think that?

9 Ball Girl
04-12-2006, 11:03 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nAz:</font><hr> Caca? whats that a new Mehican taco stuffing? /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif <hr /></blockquote>Now you've really pissed me off. Don't [censored] call me either.

Sid_Vicious
04-12-2006, 11:24 AM
I thought Naz was funny as caca /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif sid

nAz
04-12-2006, 11:35 AM
"I thought Naz was funny as caca sid"

lol /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif so did i... watch it Sid you may be called un-American bigot /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Wendy you should go out there and protest along side the illegals
/ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I was reading the times last monday and came across this article by Paul Krugman, here is an excerpt that i found pretty interesting
"many of the worst-off native-born Americans are hurt by immigration especially immigration from Mexico". This is because Mexican immigrants "increase the supply of less-skilled labor, driving down the wages of the worst-paid Americans"
Unfortunately, illegal immegration hurts Americas working (and non-working) poor. Corporations would be more happy to have a guest worker program, as Krugman argues. I think that the working poor, those who are barely clinging to self-sufficiency and who are struggling daily just to pay their bills wouldn't.

Sid_Vicious
04-12-2006, 12:04 PM
Ya know I just thought about a fairness issue if the govt is going to make these people "allowed workers." Let them, by our same laws, be covered under the minimum wage law! If they are counted enough to bypass their illegal status, then make the employers pay them as worthy citizens...sid

Drop1
04-12-2006, 12:17 PM
We have almost three hundred million people. The Mexican illegals amount to under twelve percent,which means four illegals for every ninty six legal citizens. I think the whole immigrant issue is the knee jerk response of people looking for a scape goat for proplems created by the leaders that don't lead. My source, U.S.Census Bureau. If you can't trust the Government,who can you trust? I wanna get drunk.

nAz
04-12-2006, 12:20 PM
Ok everyone out of these proposal which do you like best?


House proposal...

Requires employers to verify the legal status of employees. It subjects employers to criminal penalties of a year or more in prison. It also sets civil fines of up to $50,000 for each illegal hire.

Does not include a guest-worker program.

Proposal of Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.)

Requires employers to verify legal status of employees. An employer who has knowingly hired more than 10 illegal workers in one year could face up to 10 years in prison.

Expands guest-worker program, authorizing immigrants to work for three years. They may reapply for another three years, then must return home for a year before again applying to the program.

Proposal of Sens. Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.) and John McCain (R-Ariz.)

Allows undocumented immigrants to stay in the country for six years under temporary work visas if they pay a $1,000 fine and pass background checks. They can later apply for permanent residence and citizenship if they pay an additional $1,000, are proficient in English and civics, and pay all back taxes.

Allows 400,000 new guest workers into the country each year. It permits immigrants to stay in the country for up to six years under temporary work visas. Applicants would have to pass criminal and security background checks, pay a $500 application fee, and undergo a medical examination.

Kinda like to see a combo of Kennedy/McCain and Specter proposals, excluding the 400,000 new guest workers.

9 Ball Girl
04-12-2006, 01:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nAz:</font><hr>Wendy you should go out there and protest along side the illegals<hr /></blockquote>Yeah I should. The same people who are pissy now were probably the same ones that protested against your nationality during 9/11. Maybe I should've joined them too.

nAz
04-12-2006, 01:25 PM
Thats right you should have done that too, walk the walk.

BTW I consider my nationality American not Arab/Hispanic American
something immigrants stop doing long ago.

Anyways don't worry about it this Government had no ball and will probably cave in to blanket immunity, Taco's and Tortilla Chips for everyone. PINCHEA!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Deeman3
04-12-2006, 01:50 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Drop1:</font><hr> We have almost three hundred million people. The Mexican illegals amount to under twelve percent,which means four illegals for every ninty six legal citizens. I think the whole immigrant issue is the knee jerk response of people looking for a scape goat for proplems created by the leaders that don't lead. My source, U.S.Census Bureau. If you can't trust the Government,who can you trust? I wanna get drunk. <hr /></blockquote>

Drop1:

I'm only a mechanical engineer but your math is a little fuzzy to me. If they are 12 percent of the population, which I don't think they are, that would be 36 million in this country and I believe there are no more than 14 million or so. However, even this is a lot of people and if they are 4 out of every 100, we still have 4 out of 100 people we know are already willing to commit a crime (just sneaking in here). Many more are forming gangs in the cities and rapidly filling out jails, hospitals and schools. As many of us are already burdened with too high taxes to support the others that can't/won't contribute in this country along with the slugs working in government jobs, another 4% we must carry is not a light burden.

Did you know it a felony to be an illegal alien in Mexico? That illegal aliens can't march and demonstrate in Mexico?

Why do you ask for rights we couldn't even have in Mexico? Because we tolerate it, that's why.



There is no end to this.


Deeman

9 Ball Girl
04-12-2006, 01:54 PM
I've always said Dominican when asked what my nationality was and to tell you the truth, I've never heard someone say American when asked that question. I've never heard you say it either.

You know, this thread just makes me see the true colors of some folks is all.

Keith Talent
04-12-2006, 02:04 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 9 Ball Girl:</font><hr> I've always said Dominican when asked what my nationality was ...
<hr /></blockquote>

Euros love to make fun of us Anglo types when we say we're 50% Irish or somesuch. Of course, they tend to be snarky, nasty people, but they have a point maybe. Like, what's an American? All I know, is pale-faced folk aren't really allowed to call themselves anything but.

Sid_Vicious
04-12-2006, 02:32 PM
The whole issue is whether you had your underwear "Rio Grande Red and wet" or not. Anybody getting upset who made the trip legally has a personal problem, and they should really be thinking American all the way. Compassion is fine, but reality to the impact to the economics and over taxed social services, not to mention the crime element,,,is the primary issues. The middle class will carry most of this burden, and the lower middle class will succumb to being in the poor class in the end...sid~~~true color is red-white-blue and the preservation of self survival heading into my retirement(waning as each illegal wades the waters)

jtlabs
04-12-2006, 04:28 PM
Not too many people know this or are willing to admit it but this country was build on legal and ILLEGAL immigration. The bridges, the sky scrapers, everything that is American was made on the backs of immigrants or foreigners. Too me, I think it is shameful how self serving and heartless society is today. The pilgrims left their countries for the very reason that many people are leaving their country today.

Every administration, not just Bush has and had a good reason to allow the influx of immigrants and it has nothing to do with votes. Currently every American from the babyboom er generation outranks young people. As a result for every 2 Adults from the babyboom generation their will be 1 kid who can possibly take care of them in their old age. That is an ideal situation of course, but we all know that not every youth can afford to take care of their parents or much less wants their parents to live with them. That leaves nursing homes but we also know not every youth in America wants to be a nurse nor is it economically feasible. What this basically means is that we will have old people who will have no one to nurse them, medically care for them, etc. Immigrants are essential to survival as a nation, and any economist, or dare I say politician knows this. Their a solution not a problem.

Too bring up another point, the boys in the pentagon are figuring out how exactly their going to get enough man power for the agenda that is taking place in the middle east. Believe me, when it comes down to business the powers that be are very serious and most of all, open minded in how they can achieve their goals.

Finally, when people start talking about how immigrants are taking our jobs, I have to laugh. Any economist can tell you that the down turn in our economy has nothing to do with immigrants. We live in the age of globalization, where corporate decisions in other countries effect our and every other country in a chain reaction. The tough times we are falling upon are felt all through out the world, not just in the US. It has a lot to do with inevitability and less to do with who we have as president and much more less to do with immigrants. In conclusion, if anyone is at home with no job, or a immigrant was hired over someone else, then maybe that someone should start working harder and stop making excuses for being unemployed.

Drop1
04-12-2006, 08:48 PM
I think the post says there are a little less than twelve million total, out of a total population of almost three hundred million Hey Germany had their Jews,and America has their Mexicans. I still think its all about scape goat hunting.

Sid_Vicious
04-13-2006, 04:45 AM
"Finally, when people start talking about how(Illegal) immigrants are taking our jobs"

Illegal Illegal Illegal Illegal Illegal Illegal Illegal

Don't leave that factoid out. The whole discussion starts and ends with that one word...sid

DickLeonard
04-13-2006, 06:04 AM
Naz @ Wendy does this fighting mean we won't see you together in the PIT.####

Gayle in MD
04-13-2006, 07:10 AM
Hi kiddo,
How's it going?

I think there are quite a number of jobs which have sliding pay scales due to the illegal problem. In my area, food and hotel workers, construction, landscaping and the seafood industry have been hardest hit. I have also read statistics of sliding pay scales in other states, which have led to revenue losses for the state. The best source of information on this, is Lou Dobbs, on CNN, who has been focussed on the problems of illegal immigration, and out-sourcing, for years. He often exposes falsehoods which are reported in the news, not only about this political subject, but others, also. His book, "The Exporting Of America" is a real eye opener, but there is probably a lot of information on the impact of illegals on our economy on the CNN website, just click you way to Lou Dobbs. I know he reported that the jobless rate for those in poverty levels, and among high school drop outs, has risen due to influx of ilegals in those jobs which are usually filled by our poor and uneducated population of Americans.

Another problem, of which you are probably already aware, is the hospital emergency room costs, and our educational system, both of which have been greatly impacted by the illegal immigrants. They go in for emergency care when they or their children are ill, but are uninsured, and never pay their bill. We pay it for them, ultimately, hence our medical costs rise.

Another thing that really bothers me about the Mexican/spanish immigrant, is that I really can't think of any other immigrant nationality which immigrated here, and didn't learn to speak english. Why do you suppose that is? We've never seen this before, and frankly, IMO, this country has made a mistake by trying to accomodate an illegal population that doesn't seem to make the effort to learn our language. That impacts our schools and court system in ways which are a drag financially, and educationally.

These are just a few examples, but also we know that often an illegal works here, uses medical, educational and social services, doesn't pay taxes on wages, and sends a portion of their pay out of the country, which wouldn't be a big problem if there weren't so many doing it.

Above all these issues, though, as far as I'm concerned, is that our immigration laws are not being enforced, a trend which I see overall in the Bush administration, but particularly dangerous, IMO, in immigration policy, since our open borders are an invitation not only for many more uneducated immigrants to enter illegally, but also for terrorists.

Gayle....WHEN ARE YOU COMING???

Gayle in MD
04-13-2006, 07:26 AM
Hi there,
Well, for one reason, we keep hearing that America NEEDS these immigrants, and the economy will collapse without them. This simply isn't true.

I saw a report on Lou Dobbs show, CNN, which gave a break down of where the "saved" dollars go, and in the scenario the largest advantage was at the Corporate level. Take for example the food and hotel industry, not overall a Mom and Pop segment of our economy anymore, neither is construction or textiles overall. The large Corporations own these industries. McDonalds, Wendy's, Holiday Inn, Marriot, etc.

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
04-13-2006, 07:36 AM
Sorry, but you are doing exactly what many do, confusing immigration, in general, with a huge illegal influx of uneducated people who take jobs from Americans who are uneducated, and/or poor, which, along with the growing Corporate out-sourcing of American jobs to cheap foreign labor, well, it is just irresponsible and unrealistic to think that these circumstances do not negatively affect American Citizens. If you would study the statistics, you would see what I mean.

Gayle in Md....Tired of the American Middle class carrying the world on their backs!

Gayle in MD
04-13-2006, 07:41 AM
Hi Drop,
The high end of the estimate, which can only be an estimate when talking about those who are basically undocumented, is 20 million.

Gayle in Md.

Chopstick
04-13-2006, 10:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jtlabs:</font><hr> Not too many people know this or are willing to admit it but this country was build on legal and ILLEGAL immigration. The bridges, the sky scrapers, everything that is American was made on the backs of immigrants or foreigners. Too me, I think it is shameful how self serving and heartless society is today. The pilgrims left their countries for the very reason that many people are leaving their country today.

Every administration, not just Bush has and had a good reason to allow the influx of immigrants and it has nothing to do with votes. Currently every American from the babyboom er generation outranks young people. As a result for every 2 Adults from the babyboom generation their will be 1 kid who can possibly take care of them in their old age. That is an ideal situation of course, but we all know that not every youth can afford to take care of their parents or much less wants their parents to live with them. That leaves nursing homes but we also know not every youth in America wants to be a nurse nor is it economically feasible. What this basically means is that we will have old people who will have no one to nurse them, medically care for them, etc. Immigrants are essential to survival as a nation, and any economist, or dare I say politician knows this. Their a solution not a problem.

Too bring up another point, the boys in the pentagon are figuring out how exactly their going to get enough man power for the agenda that is taking place in the middle east. Believe me, when it comes down to business the powers that be are very serious and most of all, open minded in how they can achieve their goals.

Finally, when people start talking about how immigrants are taking our jobs, I have to laugh. Any economist can tell you that the down turn in our economy has nothing to do with immigrants. We live in the age of globalization, where corporate decisions in other countries effect our and every other country in a chain reaction. The tough times we are falling upon are felt all through out the world, not just in the US. It has a lot to do with inevitability and less to do with who we have as president and much more less to do with immigrants. In conclusion, if anyone is at home with no job, or a immigrant was hired over someone else, then maybe that someone should start working harder and stop making excuses for being unemployed. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">These are good points. What about over population? I think the country is basically full. Can it absorb that much unskilled labor? They are the first ones to suffer in an economic downturn. In my opinion, if we are going to increase the population we need to do it with skilled labor. Would anyone really care if we were being over run with systems engeineers? </font color>

Drop1
04-13-2006, 11:35 AM
Hi Gayle could be twenty,and the census bureau wrong. But I think,and it is MHO,that we need to look at the baby boomers,leaveing the job market,and the shotage of tecnology qualified people that are going with them. As far as the illegals go, I don't have a problem with them at all. My older brother moved his law office,because illegals were gathering of the grounds,and leaving trash,and peeing in the bushes. We cannot talk about the subject,he gets so up set. I have posted several times,that we should make Mexico share in the pain of what it costs to maintain Illegals in the U.S. social system. I'm sure the cost is less than killing someone in Iraq. There is so much hype,and false information,that it is difficult to distance our selves emotionally. If we gave each illegal twenty thousand dollars,and sent them home,that would amount to two days of the money the U.S. spends it would take almost five days if we only used the money we borrow from China. If the Census Bureau is correct,it could be done in much less time. My point is all, of a sudden this we can see only one problem,and I would like to know what happened to all the problems of the aged,the Bush lies,Medicare,the failing education system,what Bush knew,and when.But now there is a new toy "The Immigrants" and I think this administration is much more relaxed,when the people stop thinking about what has been done.

Sid_Vicious
04-13-2006, 11:47 AM
"MHO,that we need to look at the baby boomers,leaveing the job market,and the shotage of tecnology qualified people that are going with them"

Me being one of these boomers in technology, I can tell you right now that if I'm a rare commodity, my pay scale does not reflect it. I'm losing on both fronts,,,,illegals AND the lack of respect in the paycheck...sid

jtlabs
04-13-2006, 02:36 PM
Hello Gayle,

Their is so many different aspects to speak about when it comes to the economy but before I tackle that issue, I would like to mention something I observed and I am sure many others have as well.

Their is a common denominator in any country that experiences severe economic down turn, people start pointing fingers. When that happens, the worst in people come out, and hatred spreads rampantly. It is easy for people to blame problems(even if their inevitable) on other innocent or not so innocent people. They set themselves up to be followers of who ever can sympathise with their plight. It happened during the holocaust with the Germans, and its happening in many countries today especially in the middle east. Now I am not saying that is happening to anyone in the US but just realize anyone of us can be vulnerable if we do not check ourselves.

With that said, I like to show you a real situation that Americans and everyone worldwide should know about. Allen Greenspan acknowledges( http://www.federalreserve.gov)]this and many "experts" in the field are warning about it. That is, the US dollar is destine to crash and it is going to happen in the near future. Another words, we must brace ourselves for a world wide depression for it will happen very soon. I urge you to read a book called the dollar crisis which elaborates exactly what I am speaking about. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0470821701/qid=1144965112/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/102-5866574-7988905?s=books&amp;v=glance&amp;n=283155

In a nutshell you will come to learn how the monetary system works and understand cycles in the economy a whole lot better. People who have "old money" understand it quite well and I think every American should as well. If we had a financial education we would be well equipped to handle the up and down cycles in our economy.

p.s. BTW, you can just look at the news and see how bad it is all through out the world, we are not the only country complaining about immigrants, their are other countries that need immigrants just as much as we do that are against immigration. The media will dictate what you and I think, unless of course we think outside the box. For a pool player like yourself I am sure that will not be hard to do. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Regards,
Jay

Sid_Vicious
04-13-2006, 03:00 PM
I'm not sure what your point with the future of a dollar crash here is, but I feel that if this country is to hit bottom, that the illegal, uninsured and non contributors to the system, a system which will be demanded to provide health and welfare for them here, free of charge...that freebie for millions of illegals will only accelerate the demise of the financial strength of those residing on the middle to lower class rung. Having said that, I contend that stopping the influx of illegal, tax burdening aliens is not finger pointing. It is self preservation, and long overdue. If I were to point fingers today it would be at the idiot in the Whitehouse. He simply does not care for this country unless it makes him or his cronies a buck...sid

jtlabs
04-13-2006, 03:41 PM
Hey sid,

In regards to non-contributers, actually many "illegals indeed get work cards, and contribute and get taxed regulary and do not reap the benifets of any type of welfare system weather they want to or not. To qualify for any government welfare system you must be a citizen.

The point I was trying to make btw was that our economy is in the state it is today because of the ensuing dollar crises(not immigration). Just reading that book alone should help you understand the importance of this crises.

Thx for listening.

Regards,
Jay

heater451
04-13-2006, 04:33 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> . . .Me being one of these boomers in technology, I can tell you right now that if I'm a rare commodity, my pay scale does not reflect it.<hr /></blockquote>Sid, don't overlook the fact that part of advancing technology is making complex activities easier. And, as technology and computer control grows, jobs that once were "skilled labor" start to slide towards "unskilled labor".

When you only need a body to push the "Emergency Stop" button on a machine, you don't need someone with a degree to do it. Furthermore, once reliability, and/or planned obsolescence is added to the mix, there is even less room for techies in repair--broken machines will be replaced instead.

Ranting beyond that, tech lines can (are) outsourced to cheaper countries, where issues are either resolved by someone reading a flowchart of responses to problems, or frustrating customers, who may give up and purchase a new machine (replacement, again), or go somewhere else. And, extending that, the cheaper a company can bring a product to the market, and the more they can sell, the less they care about providing service to the individual.

So, not only are the workers and customers devalued, we actually feed into it, because we are ultimately the consumer of one product, and a worker who takes part in the construction of another product (or service), which continues the cycle.

(Sorry, I went off-topic, on my own off-topic. . . .)



===========================

9 Ball Girl
04-13-2006, 05:41 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> Naz @ Wendy does this fighting mean we won't see you together in the PIT.#### <hr /></blockquote>nAz and I go to far back to let debates come between us. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

9 Ball Girl
04-13-2006, 05:51 PM
I understand 101% where you and Sid and everyone else is coming from. It's bothersome and it's definitely a mess that past, present, and future administrations need to seriously figure out.

One of the things that bothers me are those that are born here and IMO, right off the bat have an advantage to make use of everything that this country has to offer as far as schooling, jobs, opportunities, etc. When those same folks sit on their tushies and repress themselves for making a better life for themselves and then bitch about foreigners coming into the country taking their jobs, I guess I just get taken aback.

I'll get to MD as soon as nAz picks a date!

Drop1
04-13-2006, 07:48 PM
We are in the dawning of the "Age Of The Robots" technology is very democratic,and dosen't give a sh%t where it gets done. Please read "The World is Flat" In this consumer driven economy of new toys,you have to be untouchable. I can use myself as an example. At the present moment,as I type,I'm designing products for three companies Rainforestboats.com Maxitt Industrial,and a gaming company in Nevada. I'm getting ready to publish a book of poems. There is no school for what I do, there is no apprenticeship. Every major retailer in the U.S. has carried products of my design,at one time or another. I have never turned down work I'm untouchable,and that is what I hope to see more people look to be,because formal education is not enough. Think of yourself as a product,and pay your self first,and never carry a label.

Deeman3
04-13-2006, 08:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Drop1:</font><hr> We are in the dawning of the "Age Of The Robots" technology is very democratic,and dosen't give a sh%t where it gets done. Please read "The World is Flat" In this consumer driven economy of new toys,you have to be untouchable. I can use myself as an example. At the present moment,as I type,I'm designing products for three companies Rainforestboats.com Maxitt Industrial,and a gaming company in Nevada. I'm getting ready to publish a book of poems. There is no school for what I do, there is no apprenticeship. Every major retailer in the U.S. has carried products of my design,at one time or another. I have never turned down work I'm untouchable,and that is what I hope to see more people look to be,because formal education is not enough. Think of yourself as a product,and pay your self first,and never carry a label. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> What you say is true, the world economy does not care where things come from. If they can be made cheaper somewhere else, it will eventually go there. However, we are rapidly becoming an economy based on providing jobs to parasites (Government workers) who provide nothing but a method to exact taxes and redistribute the wealth. Soon, as the last of us who manufacture something disappears, the tax base will be gone and the golden goose dead.

Then the left and right can demand all the taxes they want for programs we don't need and it simply won't make any difference, it will be gone.

Both parties are abandoning their core responsibility of defending our borders. Someone asked if, in hindsight, would we still invade Iraq. I guess we should have invaded Mexico before they did so to us. I hire many Hispanic workers and pay them much more than minimum wage.

They are mostly good people who work hard and are just trying to survive. However, this country can't support them all.

Bush, Kennedy, Mrs. Clinton, all of them are failing us now. They are all selling out for short term political gain and do not care a wit about the American people or their future. </font color>


Deeman

Drop1
04-13-2006, 09:03 PM
Crisis,in Chinese is composed of two symbols "dangerous opportunity" Sometimes I think we need a new ethic.

Chopstick
04-14-2006, 04:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Drop1:</font><hr> We are in the dawning of the "Age Of The Robots" technology is very democratic,and dosen't give a sh%t where it gets done. Please read "The World is Flat" In this consumer driven economy of new toys,you have to be untouchable. I can use myself as an example. At the present moment,as I type,I'm designing products for three companies Rainforestboats.com Maxitt Industrial,and a gaming company in Nevada. I'm getting ready to publish a book of poems. There is no school for what I do, there is no apprenticeship. Every major retailer in the U.S. has carried products of my design,at one time or another. I have never turned down work I'm untouchable,and that is what I hope to see more people look to be,because formal education is not enough. Think of yourself as a product,and pay your self first,and never carry a label. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> What you say is true, the world economy does not care where things come from. If they can be made cheaper somewhere else, it will eventually go there. However, we are rapidly becoming an economy based on providing jobs to parasites (Government workers) who provide nothing but a method to exact taxes and redistribute the wealth. Soon, as the last of us who manufacture something disappears, the tax base will be gone and the golden goose dead.

Then the left and right can demand all the taxes they want for programs we don't need and it simply won't make any difference, it will be gone.

Both parties are abandoning their core responsibility of defending our borders. Someone asked if, in hindsight, would we still invade Iraq. I guess we should have invaded Mexico before they did so to us. I hire many Hispanic workers and pay them much more than minimum wage.

They are mostly good people who work hard and are just trying to survive. However, this country can't support them all.

Bush, Kennedy, Mrs. Clinton, all of them are failing us now. They are all selling out for short term political gain and do not care a wit about the American people or their future. </font color>


Deeman <hr /></blockquote>


At the core of every major organization there is an "untouchable". The person who get things done. It is true that a number of technical jobs have been outsourced to other countries but the senior technical positions have not. These individuals are all in the "end of the baby boomer" generation. When they leave the labor pool it is going to have a major impact on this countries economy. They are not being replaced and it takes twenty years to make new ones. At the current rate of influx there will be 50 million or more of these unskilled laborers.

Machines don't replace highly technical positions. The majority of jobs that machinery replaces is unskilled labor. In the very near future robotics is going to take off and the unskilled labor market is going to evaporate overnight. What are we going to do with 50 million people that can no longer support themselves?

We will be increasing taxes on a ever shrinking segment of the population to pay for it.

SpiderMan
04-14-2006, 07:03 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> I guess we should have invaded Mexico before they did so to us. I hire many Hispanic workers and pay them much more than minimum wage. Deeman <hr /></blockquote>

Do you verify that each may legaly work in the US?

SpiderMan

Sid_Vicious
04-14-2006, 07:25 AM
"Bush, Kennedy, Mrs. Clinton, all of them are failing us now. They are all selling out for short term political gain and do not care a wit about the American people or their future."


100% agree Dee...sid

Deeman3
04-14-2006, 07:39 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> I guess we should have invaded Mexico before they did so to us. I hire many Hispanic workers and pay them much more than minimum wage. Deeman <hr /></blockquote>

Do you verify that each may legaly work in the US?

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> Spiderman,

Yes to the extent the law allows us to. We make them present a driver's lisense plus a social security card. We are allowed to question obvious bad papers like we had two with the same social security number! We, of course, didn't hire either one. However, we try as hard as we are allowed to verify social security numbers and such. From the mass desertion we had a couple of weeks ago, we have some that have slipped through but we are rechecking each of them (that ran) now. I only have about 100 hispanics but mixed with a few temporary workers we contract for, there's alot of the short little guys running around. </font color>

Deeman

Lester
04-14-2006, 06:57 PM
Rich wrote:These people are to be commended, for taking care of their families, however, doesn't a blanket amnesty for all illegal aliens cheapen the efforts and hard work of those who came to this country legally. Many waited years for the opportunity. To give amnesty to those who could not wait their turn is just wrong and it is a slap in the face to those who did it right.

Rich R.

Not to mention Reagan granted a blanket amnesty in the 80's but didn't take steps to close the border. All that did was encourage more people to illegally enter the U.S.

Les

Lester
04-14-2006, 07:09 PM
Gayle, you can blame Bush for everything if you want, and then you can blame the next president as well, if you feel you must put a "face to blame" on a every problem that surfaces.
Pointing the finger ain't gettin her done.

Ours is a government OF the people, BY the people, and FOR the people. Truth be told, this problem got this bad because we let it. We can only come up with a solution, and then enact it.

Lester
04-14-2006, 07:15 PM
WHAT??????

YOU AND NAZ ARE COMING TO MARYLAND?

MY MARYLAND?

9 Ball Girl
04-15-2006, 05:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Lester:</font><hr> WHAT??????

YOU AND NAZ ARE COMING TO MARYLAND?

MY MARYLAND? <hr /></blockquote>Yes, we're going to visit Gayle as soon as nAz gets the molasses out his ass and picks a date.

We're gonna have us a radical party! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Lester
04-15-2006, 08:55 PM
Well let me know when your "road show" will hit Maryland. Would love to hook up, and shoot some pool. Good friends are never forgotten.

Gayle in MD
04-17-2006, 08:05 AM
Hi Lester,
In what part of Maryland do you reside? Send me your number in a pm, and your get an invitation to come over when Wendy and Naz come (WHAHOO !!) for their visit!

As for my blame of Bush, hey, I only blame him for what he has done since he has been president. If you think about it, most of the pressing issues we face, have laws attacked to them. My greatest concern, is that we have an administration which does not respect the law, election laws, or any other kind.

We have laws, and international agreements, Treaties, etc., about pre-emptive attacks against countries which have never attacked America, and also about how the president presents the facts to the Congress and the Senate when he sends this country to war. We have immigration laws, environmental laws, Constitutional safegaurds for our privacy, detainment and torture laws and agreements, budget and spending rules and regualtions, Bush BREAKS, or IGNORES, or OVERLOOKS, or GOES AROUND our laws.

OK, no party is perfect, and no president is perfect, but this bunch of republicans, and this president, and this administration, is the worst of all times, IMO.

Everything he has done, has made everything worse, from immigration, to National Security, to spending, to pre-emptive attacks, and the list goes on and on, and the only thing he CAN do, is lie! He can't even appoint anyone else who can do a good job! I blame George Bush for everything that has happened to our country since he has been in office, the same way I would any other president. You have to have some line of judgement when it comes to a president's performance, and like the majority of people in this country, I "STRONGLY DISAPPROVE" of his performance, and have from the beginning of his lies, and misleading statements. We have immigration laws, but TWO REPUBLICANS, Reagan, and Bush, have weakened our immigration laws with amnesty, or virtual amnesty, just one more problem that republicans only view from the point of view of the rich!

Gayle in Md.

Lester
04-17-2006, 02:55 PM
I'm in Arbutus (just southwest of Baltimore).

While I've never been a staunch supporter of Mr. Bush, (hell, I'm a registered democrat) I will not attempt to judge him simply because of what happened "on his watch". He did things that you and others question and right or wrong they are done. Our system allows for the people to vote him out of office if we don't like the job he is doing. Come election time I suggest we let the people be heard.
Having said that, I feel somethings need to be addressed sooner than that. Immigration and Fuel prices are at the top of the list because of the urgency they present.

Anyway, I respect your opinion and look forward to playing pool with you when Naz and 9ballgirl get to town. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

nAz
04-17-2006, 10:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Lester:</font><hr> WHAT??????

YOU AND NAZ ARE COMING TO MARYLAND?

MY MARYLAND? <hr /></blockquote>

ahh don't know, maryland is pretty close to Bush. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Lester
04-18-2006, 03:23 AM
Well if you're scared Naz......just say you're scared. We'll unnerstan! /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Gayle in MD
04-18-2006, 07:39 AM
Hi there, and I agree with what you're saying. THE DOLLAR CRISES, is a great book. Everyone should read it, and also everyone should be stocking up on food and water. The percentage of people in the US who are really prepared for any disaster is is very few. The first thing people need regardless of the crises, which kind it is, is food and water.

BTW, are you buying any gold?

Gayle in Md.
So Proud I Didn't Vote For George Bush.

Gayle in MD
04-18-2006, 07:53 AM
LMAO! Hey, Naz, don't worry about him, he wouldn't dare come near MY house! C'mon, get your arse movin! Just tell me your favorite dinners, and what you two drink!

Love,
Gayle...Will wear my T-shirts Wendy sent to me..."The Only Bush I Trust, Is Mine!"

Sid_Vicious
04-18-2006, 10:04 AM
"BTW, are you buying any gold?"

I don't know why everyone does not invest in black gold...oil stocks. I read the other day that Exxon alone had a 500% stock increase, but I don't knpw what the time period was for that. Think about it, oil wil NEVER go down unless an alternative energy source is developed, and that ain't going to happen overnight...sid

eg8r
04-18-2006, 10:10 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know why everyone does not invest in black gold...oil stocks. I read the other day that Exxon alone had a 500% stock increase, but I don't knpw what the time period was for that. Think about it, oil wil NEVER go down unless an alternative energy source is developed, and that ain't going to happen overnight...sid <hr /></blockquote> At this point someone would begin to wonder if you had a conscience. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif You would invest in oil hoping to make some money. While at the same time you are running around screaming your head off that the oil companies are making a fortune and blaming W for helping them. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif One hand tastes the greed of profit while the other hand is trying to rid the world of big business oil and the President of the US.

eg8r

Qtec
04-18-2006, 10:48 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Think about it, oil wil NEVER go down <hr /></blockquote>

Its now $70 a barrel! Oil might never lose its value but the dollar can.


Did you know that Saddam stopped accepting Dollars for oil and changed all his $ for Euro's[ at the time at a loss]? One year later the US invaded and changed it back![ also at a loss because the Euro was now stronger ie it made no economic sense.]
Iran is planning to open an oil exchange and wants to accept Euro's for oil............

The fact is, the US is up to its neck in debt and it cant pay. Out of $100 paid in tax, $18 goes to paying the debt and GW is not finished spending. They now want to renew the nuclear arsenal, some 6000 bombs!

What happens if the world doesnt need $ to pay for their oil? All that money that the US has printed will flood back to the US from all around the world.




Q

Q

Deeman3
04-18-2006, 11:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Think about it, oil wil NEVER go down <hr /></blockquote>

Its now $70 a barrel! Oil might never lose its value but the dollar can.


Did you know that Saddam stopped accepting Dollars for oil and changed all his $ for Euro's[ at the time at a loss]? One year later the US invaded and changed it back![ also at a loss because the Euro was now stronger ie it made no economic sense.]
Iran is planning to open an oil exchange and wants to accept Euro's for oil............

The fact is, the US is up to its neck in debt and it cant pay. Out of $100 paid in tax, $18 goes to paying the debt and GW is not finished spending. They now want to renew the nuclear arsenal, some 6000 bombs!

What happens if the world doesnt need $ to pay for their oil? All that money that the US has printed will flood back to the US from all around the world. <font color="blue">

and we can buy it back at 10 cents on the dollar.</font color>


Deeman




Q

Q <hr /></blockquote>

wolfdancer
04-18-2006, 11:49 AM
Cramer posed an interesting question on his show awhile back:
Is milk overpriced, or gasoline underpriced?

Qtec
04-19-2006, 12:25 AM
[ QUOTE ]
and we can buy it back at 10 cents on the dollar. <hr /></blockquote> ..which will make a $3 gallon of gas [ todays prices] , jump to $30.

Q