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View Full Version : how come I can still pot balls?



Qtec
04-13-2006, 06:23 AM
My eyesight is bad and play pool without glasses. I dont see exact outlines of OBs, they are more like blobs! If I cant 'see' a contact point, how can I still win matches against good players? [ last year I won a match 11/10 and I only missed 4 balls that I went for.]
How can you aim if you cant see what you are aiming at?
Is an aiming system really that important?

Qtec................ do I need to 'see' a contact point or do I just have to know where it is?

Deeman3
04-13-2006, 06:27 AM
You are just an amazing human being with a gift for overcoming the things that haunt the rest of us.


Deeman /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

PoolSharkAllen
04-13-2006, 06:40 AM
Hey Qtec, On bad eyesight days, I wouldn't mind having your problem. I wear contact lenses and there are days when I just don't see as sharply as other days. On my bad days, not seeing the balls sharply really does impact my game.

Wouldn't glasses help you see and play better?

Qtec
04-13-2006, 06:47 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> You are just an amazing human being with a gift for overcoming the things that haunt the rest of us.


Deeman /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

thats funny, thats what I thought! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Q..not really.

Qtec
04-13-2006, 06:51 AM
'how come I can still pot balls?' - is the subject of the thread. Not 'how I can improve my vision'.

Q

Fran Crimi
04-13-2006, 07:02 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Is an aiming system really that important?
<hr /></blockquote>

How do blind Buddhist monks hit the bulls eye in archery?

Could it be that:

That which we attach importance to, becomes important?

If someone attaches 'importance' to aiming, then perhaps it becomes important to them. If they don't, then perhaps it's not so important.

Fran

PoolSharkAllen
04-13-2006, 07:22 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> 'how come I can still pot balls?' - is the subject of the thread. Not 'how I can improve my vision'.

Q <hr /></blockquote>

Qtec: If you're satisfied seeing OB as blobs, that's wonderful. Just don't drive! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

SPetty
04-13-2006, 09:34 AM
I suffer the same thing. I wear my glasses to drive to the pool hall, then take them off to play pool. I, too, see fuzzy blobs. Although I likely don't pocket balls as well as you do, I rarely attribute it to poor vision. The only shots I really have visual trouble with are those where the cue ball is at one end of the table and the object ball is on or very near the rail at the other end of the table, and you're trying to cut the object ball into its corner. I often cannot see the edge of the object ball, which makes it very difficult to judge where to hit it!

I forget the reasoning, but I was convinced by an old poster years ago (Houston Dan) that it was O.K. to not wear my glasses while playing. Since then, I really haven't given it a second thought.

Rich R.
04-13-2006, 10:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> I forget the reasoning, but I was convinced by an old poster years ago (Houston Dan) that it was O.K. to not wear my glasses while playing. Since then, I really haven't given it a second thought. <hr /></blockquote>
SPetty, an old friend, who you met in Orlando, used to tell everyone to play without glasses if at all possible. Because of the distance between your eyes and the lenses, there is an optical shift that will affect accuracy.

BillPorter
04-13-2006, 10:41 AM
I also have poor vision and play without glasses. And my dominant eye when shooting a pool shot happens to be my bad eye! Now I don't claim to be a great player, but I'm pretty decent at making shots. I have a theory about that. I figure that even though the pool balls look a little fuzzy, the "fuzz" is still a perfect sphere. You just have to learn to hit the contact point on the "fuzz" instead of the OB! Seriously, I think poor eyesight does not NECESSARILY hurt your "shooting eye" that much, unless it hurts your confidence. As Fran said, the Zen archer need not have 20/20 and yet still hits the target. I've heard that 3-cushion great Allen Gilbert could "feather" a ball at the other end of a billiard table even though his eyeshight had become quite poor. Regards!

DickLeonard
04-13-2006, 10:52 AM
Fran you coud be reaching Monk Status. I would like to see Adrian Monk play pool. That could be every poolplayers nightmare come true when we see how tightly our minds wraps us up.

I think maybe that most great players are equipped with the mimic gene. It is what makes actors great and it could be what makes all sport figures great, the ability to watch great players and then to copy their movements. The younger one is the more they possess the ability to achieve that goal whatever the sport is.

It could be a Question for Dr. Dave to research, we all know people who have played for years with no improvement at all.####

Eric.
04-13-2006, 12:21 PM
That's fine and dandy for some but i have a hard time finding my glasses if i don't leave them where i can touch them in the morning.


Eric &gt;took being blind to another level

SPetty
04-13-2006, 12:22 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BillPorter:</font><hr>I have a theory about that. I figure that even though the pool balls look a little fuzzy, the "fuzz" is still a perfect sphere.<hr /></blockquote>Hahaha, unless, like me, you're plagued with opposite astigmatism! My left eye makes things look tall and skinny while my right eye makes things look short and squatty (or is it the other way around? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif ) Additionally, my left eye is a tad farsighted, while my right eye is a tad nearsighted. Nope, I don't get a perfect sphere! /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Rich R.
04-13-2006, 03:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> My left eye makes things look tall and skinny while my right eye makes things look short and squatty (or is it the other way around? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif ) earsighted. Nope, I don't get a perfect sphere! /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif <hr /></blockquote>
The next time we meet, please, look at through your left eye only. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

RonMont
04-16-2006, 04:26 PM
You didn't describe your method of aiming. I would guess you are using lines rather than point of contact systems. I offer this because that is how I aim. I can't read the numbers on the balls at the other end of the table but I can still pocket them by just seeing the line from the pocket and the line from the cue stick as it goes through the pocket line.

Drop1
04-16-2006, 06:33 PM
When you find out let us know,I'm losing my sight to glaucoma,and diabetes,and problems natural to age. Too bad I know,but what pisses me off,is I can't sing /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Qtec
04-17-2006, 04:13 AM
Aaaaaah................grasshopper. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Does the answer to a question depend on the question? You bet!
I think I was making a good point but I asked the wrong question.[ as you subtlely pointed out /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif] Maybe [ I know] you can suggest a better question on the same subject?
How about, 'do you need an aiming system to pot balls? No, thats not it. Help me out Fran.

Q

Fran Crimi
04-17-2006, 06:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Aaaaaah................grasshopper. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Does the answer to a question depend on the question? You bet!
I think I was making a good point but I asked the wrong question.[ as you subtlely pointed out /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif] Maybe [ I know] you can suggest a better question on the same subject?
How about, 'do you need an aiming system to pot balls? No, thats not it. Help me out Fran.

Q
<hr /></blockquote>

/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

You didn't ask the wrong question, Q.

You see --- you have something so many players don't have...and that's trust in yourself, which is why the balls go in the pockets for you.

It's amazing how much less 'needy' we are when we trust ourselves, isn't it? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Like that blind monk who hits the bulls-eye.

Fran

PoolSharkAllen
04-17-2006, 06:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>
You see --- you have something so many players don't have...and that's trust in yourself, which is why the balls go in the pockets for you.

It's amazing how much less 'needy' we are when we trust ourselves, isn't it? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Like that blind monk who hits the bulls-eye.

Fran

<hr /></blockquote>

To hit a bull's eye, even a blind monk needs an aiming or guidance system, whether they consiously know it or not.

Fran Crimi
04-17-2006, 06:57 AM
Funny you should mention actors, Dick. They're among my favorite people to teach pool to because of their mimic abilities. I'm always amazed to see how quickly they learn.

Fran

Fran Crimi
04-17-2006, 06:59 AM
Listen, we can call everything we do a 'system.' I think Q was being specific regarding 'sight.' How do you see without sight?

Fran

PoolSharkAllen
04-17-2006, 07:20 AM
I'm reminded of a pool lesson that I had last year. The instructor told me line up my shot, take my stance, and then CLOSE my eyes and take the shot. Sure enough, I was able to repeatedly make shots with my eyes closed. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Chopstick
04-17-2006, 08:22 AM
It has to do with the kind of memory you have. In your case you have a strong component of organizational memory. You remember where things are in relation to each other better than average. If you were to walk into a room and close your eyes you could probably walk to any chair or point in the room you wanted to without opening them.

In pool you just know where the pockets and balls are in relation to each other. You can probably make wing shots without much difficulty also. It's the same principal.

As far as making shots when you cannot see what you are aiming at, if you had not made these shots in the past, you would not be able to make them now, because the relational memory pattern wouldn't be there.

Aiming systems are important to correctly train/reinforce shot memory. People who do not use aiming systems are shooting the shot based on a memory of what it looked like when they made it in the past. Many times the memory of a shot is sloppy or the memory has degraded over time. For instance a shot down the rail that consistantly clips the rail on the way into the pocket. Sometimes this would result in a miss. An aiming system would be useful in retraining shot memory for a cleaner shot.

Snapshot9
04-17-2006, 08:51 AM
I have bad eyesight, only 20/40 with hard contacts is the best I can see. With glasses, I am 20/60-80 range. I have astigmatism front and back of both eyes, and I am just under being legally blind without lenses. I also have scarred corneas.

I have talked to my eyedoctor several times about why I am able to shoot Pool as good as I can (after coming back from placing 9th in Vegas in singles 8 ball), and he told me that my brain is making up for what my eyes can not see. Sort of like the 3rd eye thing. This is the best explanation I have found, plus I have real good ability to focus or channel my mind towards something. Sometimes, I experience eyestrain, and the balls get pretty blurry, but most of the time, I see okay, not great, but okay. One lense is focused for distance, and one for close up, but I have to make sure each is on the
certain eye for it.

It's funny though, because the best I ever see, is when I am playing Pool usually.

PoolSharkAllen
04-17-2006, 10:25 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote PoolSharkAllen:</font><hr> I'm reminded of a pool lesson that I had last year. The instructor told me line up my shot, take my stance, and then CLOSE my eyes and take the shot. Sure enough, I was able to repeatedly make shots with my eyes closed. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif <hr /></blockquote>

BTW, the point I was trying to make with this comment is that the instructor was trying to emphasize that if my fundamentals were correct (proper stance, grip and stroke), then I can indeed aim and then make shots with my eyes closed.

PoolSharkAllen
04-17-2006, 10:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Snapshot9:</font><hr> I have bad eyesight, only 20/40 with hard contacts is the best I can see.
I have talked to my eyedoctor several times about why I am able to shoot Pool as good as I can (after coming back from placing 9th in Vegas in singles 8 ball), and he told me that my brain is making up for what my eyes can not see. Sort of like the 3rd eye thing. This is the best explanation I have found, plus I have real good ability to focus or channel my mind towards something. Sometimes, I experience eyestrain, and the balls get pretty blurry, but most of the time, I see okay, not great, but okay. <hr /></blockquote>

Snapshot: I also have problems with my soft contacts that sometimes affect my game. However, I've found that 8-ball is an easier game than 9-ball to compensate for the days when I don't see as well. In 8-ball, you can compensate in the following ways:
- You can "divide the table into two," connect the dots and pot shots on 1/2 the table at a time.
- You can play well-timed safeties that allow you to maintain an initiative.
- You can hit the object ball softer so that even if you miss, the OB is closer to the pocket awaiting your next inning at the table.

A good 8-ball player can incorporate strategy and tactics into their game that may help compensate for shotmaking that relies on good eyesight. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

smfsrca
04-17-2006, 11:10 AM
Even though you cannot see the details of each ball clearly, you can still visualize your shot accurately because the relationship betweeen the the cue ball, the object ball and the pocket remains the same whether you are looking at 2 crisp edged balls or 2 fuzzy edged balls.
Also, the clearness of your vision does not have an adverse affect on your speed and position control. If your position play is good enough to offset your lack of sight accuracy. ie., your mostly shooting easy shots.
However, the sight problem may reduce your affectiveness with certain types of shots where clearly seeing the edge is more important. Close up and/or far away thin cuts.

Scott Lee
04-17-2006, 03:03 PM
This is absolutely correct! Whenever I have a student with a problem of miscuing when they try to cue the ball low, I have them close their eyes (at the point where they have completed their preshot routine, and, as you said, the other fundamentals are in place), and have them take their final backswing and execute the stroke. Taking away sight leaves only feel and sound. They immediately draw the CB with a maximum draw tip position, and are amazed that they didn't miscue! It does boil down to what Fran said...the ability to "trust your stroke"!

Scott Lee

heater451
04-17-2006, 03:48 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote smfsrca:</font><hr> Even though you cannot see the details of each ball clearly, you can still visualize your shot accurately because the relationship betweeen the the cue ball, the object ball and the pocket remains the same whether you are looking at 2 crisp edged balls or 2 fuzzy edged balls.
Also, the clearness of your vision does not have an adverse affect on your speed and position control. If your position play is good enough to offset your lack of sight accuracy. ie., your mostly shooting easy shots.
However, the sight problem may reduce your affectiveness with certain types of shots where clearly seeing the edge is more important. Close up and/or far away thin cuts.
<hr /></blockquote>I think that we also overestimate the importance of hitting the "exact" contact point, as we imagine it, to put a ball center-pocket. That is, we learn the concept of "cheating the pocket" for position, but I think it's used in nearly every shot, because hitting the perfect line doesn't happen that often--although, I would like to see someone conduct an accuracy test sometime.

And while I'm thinking about experiments, would anyone be up to try this? (Cane, are you reading this--you're the Mad Pool Scientist, right?):

Borrow someone else's glasses, or use whatever you can, to temporarily 'warp' your vision. I don't mean to use glasses that blur one's vision badly, but some that appear to simply enlarge or shrink your field of view. Now, start shooting, and see how long it takes for your brain to correct the shots, and report back to the board. I'm betting that it doesn't take that long, and that once the glasses are removed, there will be another adjustment period necessary.

I also don't play with my glasses, but mostly because they are small, and the upper frame is either in the way, or I'm looking over them. I've only had them about a year and a half, as well, so I've shot more pool without them, than with.



=============================

Qtec
04-18-2006, 11:18 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote smfsrca:</font><hr> Even though you cannot see the details of each ball clearly, you can still visualize your shot accurately because the relationship betweeen the the cue ball, the object ball and the pocket remains the same whether you are looking at 2 crisp edged balls or 2 fuzzy edged balls.
Also, the clearness of your vision does not have an adverse affect on your speed and position control. If your position play is good enough to offset your lack of sight accuracy. ie., your mostly shooting easy shots.
However, the sight problem may reduce your affectiveness with certain types of shots where clearly seeing the edge is more important. Close up and/or far away thin cuts.
<hr /></blockquote>

Good answer. Maybe we dont have to see the target to know where it is!

Q.........havent heard from any tech guys on this?